From nobody at neuropa.net Mon Jan 1 00:26:26 2001
From: nobody at neuropa.net (Anonymous)
Date: 1 Jan 2001 08:26:26 -0000
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <200101010821.f018L4r22302@berlin.neuropa.net>
-- ignore --
From nobody at neuropa.net Mon Jan 1 00:37:39 2001
From: nobody at neuropa.net (Anonymous)
Date: 1 Jan 2001 08:37:39 -0000
Subject: ASCII Ribbon Campaign... [was Re: This is why a free society is evil.]
Message-ID: <200101010832.f018WIr22378@berlin.neuropa.net>
http://www.google.com/search?q=ascii+ribbon+campaign
ymmv,
C.G.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim May"
To:
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2000 1:48 PM
Subject: Re: CDR: Re: This is why a free society is evil. (fwd)
> At 10:57 AM -0700 12/17/00, Tiarnan O Corrain wrote:
> >Attachment converted: G4 Tower HD:Re- CDR- Re- This is why a free
> >(MiME/CSOm) (00012800)
>
>
> Please in-line your text.
>
> Your message above appears as an attachment (only, not just a digital
> signature). Sometimes Eudora Pro, a common e-mail program, is able to
> open such messages, sometimes not. In your particular case, for
> whatever reasons, attempting to open your attachment crashes my
> program. I tried three times, then gave up.
>
> Folks, this increase in MIME attachments is getting out of hand.
> People are reading this list on a variety of machines, from PDAs to
> Amigas to VT100s to Unix boxes to Windows.
>
> I am filtering Corrain's stuff into my trash file until someone
> (else) tells me his stuff is no longer MIME-encrusted.
>
>
> --Tim May
> --
> Timothy C. May tcmay at got.net Corralitos, California
> Political: Co-founder Cypherpunks/crypto anarchy/Cyphernomicon
> Technical: physics/soft errors/Smalltalk/Squeak/agents/games/Go
> Personal: b.1951/UCSB/Intel '74-'86/retired/investor/motorcycles/guns
>
From ravage at ssz.com Mon Jan 1 06:49:41 2001
From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 08:49:41 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Anarchy Eroded: Project Efnext
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.1.20001231212042.01c9a188@shell11.ba.best.com>
Message-ID:
On Mon, 1 Jan 2001, Van Donald wrote:
> A chat program needs a server, or interacting network of servers to
> advertise presence.
No, they don't. They do need a persistent network presence however.
Distinctly different things.
> This server could also act as a public key server,
Which is pointless. The only(!) group that is excluded from IRC at this
point is anyone who doesn't have the brains to request a session key
through the server.
> invisibly to user, guaranteeing stability of identity -- that this presence
> was the same entity as had been logged on under the same name in previous
> sessions.
Using pk's doesn't do this since I can loan my key as easy as I might own
a password. Besides how do you know somebody isn't diddling with the
central server?
Any centralized system is bound to be defeated through a 'least effort'
attack on the servers. As a result of the server going down the entire
system has now been breached and the trust in the operators is nil.
____________________________________________________________________
Before a larger group can see the virtue of an idea, a
smaller group must first understand it.
"Stranger Suns"
George Zebrowski
The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate
Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com
www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087
-====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From ravage at ssz.com Mon Jan 1 07:22:36 2001
From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 09:22:36 -0600 (CST)
Subject: World in 2015
Message-ID:
You should check out the CIA article on Drudge...
____________________________________________________________________
Before a larger group can see the virtue of an idea, a
smaller group must first understand it.
"Stranger Suns"
George Zebrowski
The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate
Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com
www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087
-====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From upshaw.archer073 at gmail.com Mon Jan 1 06:27:34 2001
From: upshaw.archer073 at gmail.com (Jonathon Murillo)
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 09:27:34 -0500
Subject: Stronger climaxes and orgasms
Message-ID: <200604201249.k3KCnr2Q000317@proton.jfet.org>
A recent survey showed that 68% of women are unsatisfied with their sexual partners. Of course most of these women would never tell their partner that they are unhappy.
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From bear at sonic.net Mon Jan 1 12:32:53 2001
From: bear at sonic.net (Ray Dillinger)
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 12:32:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Digital Cash with dynamic range
Message-ID:
Most of the protocols I'm finding for digital cash don't have much
in the way of dynamic range. Generally, there is a range of values
that they are designed for (rarely more than a factor of a thousand
or so from smallest to largest) and smaller payments become
impossible and larger payments become impractical.
The problem is particularly severe for offline protocols, where you
can't get the bank online to make change or issue arbitrary-valued
coins.
Does anyone know any happy exceptions to this rule, where payments
ranging from a millionth of a token up through several million
tokens could all be practical? (ie, dynamic range of the twelfth
or higher order?)
Anyway, the "practical in arbitrary amounts" assumption is pretty
fundamental to useful money. We achieve it through bank drafts,
checks, transfer orders, etc. But these instruments are not as
clear how to do in a digital world where anonymity is preserved.
In particular, I haven't found low-level details of how the "Mojo"
tokens in use by the new MojoNation stuff work. Are they just an
implementation of a well-documented protocol, or did they do something
new?
Bear
From marketing at netoneplus.com Mon Jan 1 13:01:18 2001
From: marketing at netoneplus.com (marketing at netoneplus.com)
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 16:01:18 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Information on your website
Message-ID: <200101012101.QAA07951@jxmls04.se.mediaone.net>
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From rsw at mit.edu Mon Jan 1 13:46:51 2001
From: rsw at mit.edu (Riad S. Wahby)
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 16:46:51 -0500
Subject: Anarchy Eroded: Project Efnext
In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20001231154706.0086d880@pop.sprynet.com>; from honig@sprynet.com on Sun, Dec 31, 2000 at 06:56:26PM -0500
References: <200012310617.eBV6HGh16138@artifact.psychedelic.net> <5.0.2.1.1.20001231090909.0239ca58@shell11.ba.best.com> <3.0.6.32.20001231154706.0086d880@pop.sprynet.com>
Message-ID: <20010101164651.B7707@positron.mit.edu>
David Honig wrote:
> Since no one has yet mentioned it, Ryan Lackey once mentioned a
> secure chat program.. Zephyr? Gale? (the name was related to some
> other existing, insecure chat program)
MIT uses Zephyr for text messaging. It's not secure, but it can
authenticate with Kerberos.
There are "homebrew" extensions to have encrypted sessions; basically,
since zephyr is 8-bit safe, you can put whatever you want inside the
message, including (non-armored) encrypted data.
--
Riad Wahby
rsw at mit.edu
MIT VI-2/A 2002
5105
From GWAUGUSTADR at email.msn.com Mon Jan 1 17:56:21 2001
From: GWAUGUSTADR at email.msn.com (GWAUGUSTADR)
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 17:56:21 -0800
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <003e01c07460$ef70bf80$3acb193f@oemcomputer>
Gary and Jill WaltersWE ARE IN RECIEPT OF INFORMATION ON WARREN ANDERSON. WE HAVE THE TOP AMERICAN ASTONAOGHTS CAPABLE OF BRINGING THE MIR DOWN. WE ARE IN CONTACT WITH THE RUSSIANS NOW, IF YOU CAN PUT US IN TOUCH WITH HIM RIGHT AWAY TIME IS OF ESSEINCE. OUR GOAL WOULD BE TO HAVE THE RUSSIANS REBOOST THE MIR INTO A 3 YEAR ORBIT ACCORDING TO CAMANDER DAVID SCOTT THE APPOLLO CAMANDER AND OUR SCIENTIST HAVE A WAY OF SLINNKY WRAP PROJECT TO BRING MIR DOWN AND DISPLAY IT IN AN INTERNATIONAL SPAC AND TECHNOLOGY THEME PARK. SYMBOL RAMO, IS CURRENTLY DEVELOPEING AN ACQUSITION TO ASSIST VANGUARD SPACE TECHNOLOGY AND INTERNATIONAL SPACE TECHNOLOGY, WITH AN UNDERWRITING THIS YEARS LAUNCH PROGRAMS FOR SATAELITE RECOVERY. WE AT RAMO ARE ASSOCIATED WITH THE ONLY PRIVATE GROUP CAPABLE OF DOING THIS TYPE OF RECOVERY IN THE INTIRE WORLD. ALL TOP NOTCH SCIENTISTS, SPACE CAMMANDERS, FORMER SPACE COMMAND CENTER DIRECTORS, SECURITY SPACE DIRECTOR MISSION READY INSURANCE COMPANIES ALREADY IN PLACE ETC, PLEASE RESPOND ASAP. TELEPHONE # 7027327385 OR 702 2018581OR EMAIL
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From thomasstern at netzero.net Mon Jan 1 18:45:49 2001
From: thomasstern at netzero.net (thomasstern)
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 20:45:49 -0600
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <000801c07466$1e312f80$356b0404@valuedcu>
I have over 100 properties am looking to trade or swap or exchange most of them are single family homes and some are commerical and they are located in Lubbock, Texas will be willing to look at anything and they are all free and clear with no leins they are excellent for 1031 exchanges please feel free to call at 806-797-6481 or email for list Thankyou Thomas Stern
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From thomasstern at netzero.net Mon Jan 1 19:09:13 2001
From: thomasstern at netzero.net (thomasstern)
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 21:09:13 -0600
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <000801c07469$631543e0$356b0404@valuedcu>
I have over 100 properties am looking to trade or swap or exchange most of them are single family homes and some are commerical and they are located in Lubbock, Texas will be willing to look at anything and they are all free and clear with no leins they are excellent for 1031 exchanges please feel free to call at 806-797-6481 or email for list Thankyou Thomas Stern
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From bill.stewart at pobox.com Mon Jan 1 21:28:09 2001
From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart)
Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 21:28:09 -0800
Subject: Reminder... Mac Crypto Jan 29th - Feb 1st
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010101212809.00b07100@idiom.com>
RAH isn't forwarding to Cypherpunks at the moment
--- begin forwarded text
From bill.stewart at pobox.com Mon Jan 1 21:53:30 2001
From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart)
Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 21:53:30 -0800
Subject: The Cost of Natural Gas [was Re: The Cost of California
Liberalism]
In-Reply-To:
References: <4.3.2.7.2.20001229141157.00b8a610@flex.com>
<4.3.2.7.2.20001229141157.00b8a610@flex.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010101215330.02203d90@idiom.com>
At 09:02 PM 12/29/00 -0800, Tim May wrote:
>What these new plants ARE NOT is the kind of large nuclear plant
>comparable in size to the highly successful Diablo Canyon Nuclear
>Power Station. That plant was completed more than 15 years ago. It is
>in an unpopulated area, between Half Moon Bay and Pismo Beach, and
>west of San Luis Obispo.
Heh. I drove by that one this afternoon after visiting the hot springs.
As long as there's no major earthquake in the nearby fault before tomorrow,
I don't expect to be glowing in the dark when I next see you,
but it was a seriously stupid place to build a big nuke plant,
even if it's not in anybody's backyard (except Vinnie's,
and the few other Cypherpunks in the area, and Cal Poly SLO, and...)
However, without some rate relief, PG&E may be out of business
before the Big One hits, so the difficulty of cleanup won't be
their, um, fault.
Geothermally yours,
Thanks!
Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639
From petro at bounty.org Mon Jan 1 22:35:38 2001
From: petro at bounty.org (petro)
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 22:35:38 -0800
Subject: Anarchy Eroded: Project Efnext
In-Reply-To: <20010101164651.B7707@positron.mit.edu>
References: <200012310617.eBV6HGh16138@artifact.psychedelic.net>
<5.0.2.1.1.20001231090909.0239ca58@shell11.ba.best.com>
<3.0.6.32.20001231154706.0086d880@pop.sprynet.com>
<20010101164651.B7707@positron.mit.edu>
Message-ID:
>David Honig wrote:
>> Since no one has yet mentioned it, Ryan Lackey once mentioned a
>> secure chat program.. Zephyr? Gale? (the name was related to some
>> other existing, insecure chat program)
>
>MIT uses Zephyr for text messaging. It's not secure, but it can
>authenticate with Kerberos.
>
>There are "homebrew" extensions to have encrypted sessions; basically,
>since zephyr is 8-bit safe, you can put whatever you want inside the
>message, including (non-armored) encrypted data.
He's talking about gale, www.gale.org.
--
A quote from Petro's Archives:
**********************************************
"As someone who has worked both in private industry and in academia,
whenever I hear about academics wanting to teach ethics to people in
business, I want to puke."--Thomas Sowell.
From bill.stewart at pobox.com Mon Jan 1 22:59:53 2001
From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart)
Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 22:59:53 -0800
Subject: Anarchy Eroded: Project Efnext
In-Reply-To:
References: <200012310213.eBV2DAa15964@artifact.psychedelic.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010101225953.02221b90@idiom.com>
At 02:52 AM 12/31/00 -0500, dmolnar wrote:
>Something I don't see much of on the efxnet page - "why?"
>
>This is in the FAQ:
>"EFNext is the name of a project geared towards making IRC a more stable,
> uniform, chat environment."
>
>and they say "introductory document coming soon." I still don't know why
>this is happening (I don't hang out on EFnet). What do the efxnet people
>give as their reasons for a new IRC network?
Simplification of protocols so they can sell out to Microsoft/AOL? :-)
Thanks!
Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639
From thomasstern at netzero.net Mon Jan 1 21:16:23 2001
From: thomasstern at netzero.net (thomasstern)
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 23:16:23 -0600
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <000801c0747b$26ef72c0$036b0404@valuedcu>
I have over 100 properties am looking to trade or swap or exchange most of them are single family homes and some are commerical and they are located in Lubbock, Texas will be willing to look at anything and they are all free and clear with no leins they are excellent for 1031 exchanges please feel free to call at 806-797-6481 or email for list Thankyou Thomas Stern
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From enenkio at webtv.net Tue Jan 2 01:36:05 2001
From: enenkio at webtv.net (Robert Moore)
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 23:36:05 -1000 (HST)
Subject: EnenKio
Message-ID: <11515-3A51A105-16147@storefull-617.iap.bryant.webtv.net>
:
: Allan P Stayman Will he hang for Lies,Fraud and Disinformation
About EnenKio or will Akaka,Inouye,State Dept. X Pres. Bush or Gore
: From: Robert Moore -- www.enenkio.org
: Contact: Steve Hansen ( Steve.Hansen at mail.house.gov) (202) 225-7749 or
Arturo Silva ( Arturo.Silva at mail.house.gov) (202) 225-4063 To: National
Desk/Environmental Reporter July 12, 2000 Inspector General Testifies
About Illegal Political & Lobbying Activity At Department Of Interior
"Most Egregious Example I've Seen" In 30 Years Of Law Enforcement
Washington, D.C. - The Inspector General for the U.S. Department of the
Interior today outlined numerous examples of illegal political and
lobbying activity at the Department which led him to refer the matter
for possible criminal prosecution against an agency employee. Earl E.
Devaney, Inspector General for the Department of the Interior, testified
before the U.S. House Committee on Resources that former Interior
official David North's political activities were "the most egregious
example I've seen" in 30 years of law enforcement. North "retired" last
year immediately after the Resources Committee began an investigation
into North's political activities. Devaney testified that North
conducted political activity from his federal office during work hours
against Majority Leader Dick Armey (R-TX), Majority Whip Tom DeLay
(R-TX), and U.S. Reps. Phil English (R-PA), Brian Bilbray (R-CA) and
Dana Rohrabacher (R-CA). In addition, Devaney testified that North
sought to assist Democrat Congressional candidates and had contact with
the Democrat National Committee and the Democrat Congressional Campaign
Committee. Clinton's Department Of Justice Refuses To Prosecute Case
Inspector General Devaney also stated that he was disappointed that the
Department of Justice declined to prosecute North for criminal actions.
U.S. Rep. Don Young (R-Alaska), the Chairman of the Committee, responded
that he wasn't surprised "considering the Clinton-Gore Administration's
well-documented manipulation of the Justice Department to protect
illegal activity by its political appointees." "This is the most
partisan and politically-motivated Justice Department in the history of
the nation," Young said. Another Clinton Political Appointee Is Under
Investigation By Government Devaney also explained to the Committee that
Allen Stayman, the former Director of the Office of Insular Affairs, was
under investigation by the Office of Special Counsel for possible
illegal political and lobbying activities. Devaney said his
investigation uncovered evidence that Stayman was aware of some of
North's political and lobbying activities. The Resources Committee is
also investigating actions by Ferdinand "Danny" Aranza, the current
Director of the Office of Insular Affairs. Both Aranza and Stayman
testified under oath at today's hearing under subpoena. "I've never
high-ranking officials suffer such convenient memory lapses in my 27
years in Congress," Young said. "Despite the denials and all of the
'I-can't-recalls', we will continue to pursue to this issue." Inspector
General Devaney also testified that North assisted organizations like
the Global Survival Network and helped prepare a "report" that
questioned connections between Members of Congress and garment
executives. The organization later submitted the report to Congress.
Devaney also testified that North provided confidential information
about private individuals to a reporter. Chairman Young's Opening
Statement "After a year-long oversight review, this Committee has
unearthed overwhelming documentation of numerous highly unethical and
improper actions by federal employees of the Office of Insular Affairs,
or OIA. "We have been able to substantiate multiple acts of partisan
political activity, lobbying with appropriated funds, producing
materials and collecting information under false pretenses, and
violations of the privacy of individuals and businesses - all courtesy
of the U.S. taxpayer. "In short, we have found massive waste, fraud, and
abuse at the Office of Insular Affairs. This is what Congressional
oversight is supposed to be all about. "OIA's highly questionable
activities, at taxpayer expense, include: researching and writing
political campaign press releases and candidate position papers for
candidates to present as campaign materials; researching and drafting
partisan memos and press releases for Democratic party offices,
including the Democratic National Committee, the Democratic National
Congressional Committee, The House Democratic Caucus, and state party
organizations, to present as their own campaign materials; editing,
researching and writing reports, position papers, and press releases for
lobbying organizations to use to influence the outcome of legislation
before Congress; hiring private investigators to nose around Saipan and
even Hong Kong to dig up information on the garment industry; digging up
private, sensitive information about private citizens they don't like,
and then releasing that information - full names, Social Security
numbers, Alien registration information - to investigative journalists.
The Committee has subpoenaed and reviewed the contents of hundreds of
thousands of documents, as well as the contents of six agency computers
and dozens of computer diskettes. At the same time as these materials
were being provided to the Committee, the Department was also providing
them to the Interior Department Inspector General, Earl Devaney.
Interior's own documents show that one purpose of this referral was the
hope that an ongoing IG investigation might be a successful excuse to
stop producing materials to the Committee. In fact, this excuse was
attempted. It did not work then, and it will not work now. This
Committee must not - and will not - turn its back on its duty to oversee
that activities of officials at the Interior Department - particularly
when there are specific and credible allegations they are using the
resources authorized by this Committee, for partisan and inappropriate
purposes. Nevertheless, I'm sure you will hear the same old song and
dance from the Democrat minority: this has been a witch-hunt, this is
partisan, there is an active criminal investigation, so we should just
drop it. We've seen this defense tactic used so many times from the
Minority in this Administration, and in this Committee, that it amazes
even me. But let me remind the Democrats that if it weren't for the
inquiry being conducted by this Committee, there would be no criminal
investigation anywhere. It was only after - and as a direct result of -
the opening of this inquiry and the issuance of the initial subpoenas,
that the Interior Department forwarded the information to the Office of
Special Counsel and the Inspector General. At each step of the inquiry,
as this Committee has gathered more information from the Administration,
they have had to forward it also to the Inspector General and the OSC.
That is how Mr. Devaney learned about the abuses going on at OIA. So now
we will hear from the Inspector General, a career law enforcement
professional, and a Clinton Appointee. Mr. Devaney delivered a copy of
his final report to the Committee on Monday, and appears to have found
the same level of waste, fraud, and abuse at OIA that the Committee has
found. So, unless you believe in a grand conspiracy involving the
Congress and the entire office of the IG appointed by Clinton, this is
not a partisan witch hunt. This is about doing our job: protecting the
taxpayer, protecting privacy, protecting against waste, fraud, and
abuse. You'll also hear from my friends in the Democrat minority that
the improper activities were only carried out by one rogue operator,
David North, and that he's now off the payroll, so let's just drop it.
But Mr. North's "retirement" doesn't absolve this Committee of its duty
to get to the bottom of things, and to find out who else may have been
involved. That's why we're here today, and that's why we have subpoenaed
Mr. North's two superiors, former OIA Director Allen Stayman, and former
Deputy Director Danny Aranza, the current Director. They had the duty to
monitor what Mr. North was up to. Lastly - and most loudly - you'll hear
from the Democrats that what was going on in the garment industry in the
CNMI1 was so bad that it justified what North and others were up to. Let
me be clear: This hearing is NOT about allegations of worker abuse on
the CNMI. We have had a CODEL2 to the CNMI, and we have held a hearing
on the CNMI, but THIS hearing is about abuses in the OIA, which this
Committee has a duty to oversee. And we will NOT be de-railed. If
federal officials are allowed to break any laws they want, to violate
people's rights, just because they believe their cause is just, then
Katie bar the door. The message to all federal employees would be that
constitutional and statutory rights don't matter, as long as big brother
in the government thinks the cause is just. If the Democrat minority
gets its way, then who gets to draw the line? What would my colleagues
say if it was a Republican Administration abusing people's privacy and
conducting partisan political activity, because they thought the cause
was just? If the Minority thinks what went on here was OK, and that we
should just ignore the partisan activity and the lobbying and the
privacy violations, then they should go on the record and say so. Then
the next Administration, and the American people, will know where they
stand." 1. CNMI - Commonwealth of Northern Mariana Islands. 2. CODEL -
Congressional Delegation. For more information, please check the House
Committee on Resources Home Page at http://resourcescommittee.house.gov
: AMERCIA REMOVE IT OR PROVE IT ! www.enenkio.org -
Robert Moore, Minister Plenipotentiary, Kingdom of EnenKio Foreign Trade
Mission
DO-MO-CO Manager, Remios Hermios Eleemosynary Trust, Majuro, Marshall
Islands
http://www.enenkio.org
From mortgagepro55 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 2 01:40:29 2001
From: mortgagepro55 at yahoo.com (mortgagepro55 at yahoo.com)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 01:40:29
Subject: YOUR MORTGAGE LEADS!!
Message-ID: <114.282315.806205@yahoo.com>
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P.S. Please forward this email to the owner of the company. They will be glad you did.
From anonymous at openpgp.net Mon Jan 1 23:03:12 2001
From: anonymous at openpgp.net (anonymous at openpgp.net)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 02:03:12 -0500
Subject: New attack on digital piracy
Message-ID: <9183c5a4e2944ed47d90a580c2f9a80a@noisebox.remailer.org>
Coalition pushes storage-based copy-prevention
BY DAWN C. CHMIELEWSKI
Mercury News
Hollywood has teamed up with some of the biggest players in computer storage technology to build a copy-prevention scheme into every hard drive and memory card -- opening a new front in the war against online piracy.
If widely adopted, the technology would make it more difficult for consumers to duplicate copyrighted files such as music and movies without the permission of the companies that own the rights. Hard drives and memory cards are used to store information on everything from personal computers and MP3 music players to digital cameras and palm-size organizers.
Hollywood and the companies designing the anti-copying technology bill it as a revolutionary way to combat piracy. The entertainment industry has been fighting on many fronts, asking the courts to shut down online music-swapping services such as Napster and halt the distribution of software that allows bootleggers to make pristine copies of DVD movies.
But critics say this latest effort, led by an IBM researcher at the company's Almaden Valley campus in San Jose, will prevent users from making even routine copies, such as backups, of files they legally have a right to copy.
``I think it's disgraceful,'' said Richard M. Stallman, a leader in the free software movement and author of ``The Hackers Dictionary.'' ``Everyone's rights are being trampled for the sake of these companies.''
The brainchild of `4C'
The technology is the brainchild of IBM, Intel, Toshiba and Matsushita -- a group of leading hardware makers collectively known as the ``4C.'' The rights-protection technology, dubbed Content Protection for Recordable Media (CPRM), uses a combination of encryption and scrambling to prevent unauthorized copying. It is currently awaiting approval from a national standards body that sets rules for new features offered on storage devices like hard drives.
CPRM is one of a series of copy-protection technologies designed to thwart the wholesale duplication of copyrighted materials that file-swapping services like Napster make possible. Watermarking is another approach being developed by other firms. That technology places hidden bits of digital code on a song, so labels and artists can track illicit copies.
IBM researcher Jeffrey Lotspiech, who developed the latest copy-protection technology, said each piece of blank media -- say, a flash memory card or an IBM Microdrive -- comes with a unique serial number.
When a consumer buys the rights to make an authorized copy of, for example, the Barenaked Ladies' latest CD, the rights-protection software uses the serial number on the blank media to create a unique ``key'' that only an authorized player can unlock.
``It uses the media -- the dumb media -- as the source of the key information that allows the two of them to come up with a common key -- the recorder to make the recording and the player to play it in the future,'' said Lotspiech.
It's resistant to hacking because of the sheer number of key combinations that could be created -- ``greater than the number of protons in the universe,'' Lotspiech said in an IBM research publication describing the the technology.
CPRM would do nothing to stop Napster's 37 million users from giving away music to any stranger who asks. But new tracks released with this protection would be worthless.
Microdrives
Lotspiech said IBM plans to use the technology in its popular Microdrives -- stamp-sized hard drives now used to store photographs in digital cameras and music on digital players. And SanDisk has also expressed interest in using it for its flash memory, commonly used to store information in MP3 players and digital cameras.
The first products could begin appearing by next summer.
It's one of several copy-protection schemes designed to meet the criteria set by the recording industry-sponsored Secure Digital Music Initiative (SDMI), a group established to create a standard for online music distribution.
``So far, content companies have been reluctant to deliver their content in digital form out of fear that piracy would further increase,'' said Leonardo Chiariglione, SDMI's executive director. ``But if there is a way of protecting their content, then content companies will put all of their content out. And that would benefit all consumers.''
The Motion Picture Association of America sees broader applications for the technology. If it's effective at thwarting piracy, it could speed direct digital distribution of movies -- either over the Internet or through digital TV set-top boxes. The movie industry has been reluctant to widely distribute its work because of the fear of Napsterization of films.
``What we have with copy-once content protection technology is the ability to go beyond just a pay-per-view business model to go to a pay-per-copy business model,'' said Brad Hunt, the MPAA's chief technical officer.
In order for Internet delivery to occur, Hunt said the copy-protection technology would have to extend to the computer hard drive -- a proposal that other technologists find chilling.
``We've been keeping an eye on technologies that are designed to remove capabilities from the people who buy the machines -- particularly when it's removing a capability not for the benefit of the buyer .�.�.� but for the benefit of some third party, like a movie company,'' said John Gilmore, co-founder of the Electronic Frontier Foundation, a San Francisco-based organization that advocates free speech online.
Gilmore said copyright laws were never meant to extend a movie studio's reach into a consumer's hard drive.
Contact Dawn Chmielewski at dchmielewski at sjmercury.com or (714) 669-9913.
From bill.stewart at pobox.com Mon Jan 1 23:23:46 2001
From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 02:23:46 -0500
Subject: Anarchy Eroded: Project Efnext
In-Reply-To: <20010101164651.B7707@positron.mit.edu>
References: <3.0.6.32.20001231154706.0086d880@pop.sprynet.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010101232323.00a8fb10@idiom.com>
David Honig wrote:
>> Since no one has yet mentioned it, Ryan Lackey once mentioned a
>> secure chat program.. Zephyr? Gale? (the name was related to some
>> other existing, insecure chat program)
Yes, it was Gale http://www.gale.org .
You may note the relationship of its name to Zephyr's :-)
Version 0.99a came out in July; Version 0.99cheese was sometime
unspecified last millenium.
Thanks!
Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639
From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Tue Jan 2 05:27:05 2001
From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 07:27:05 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Philippines - Public Announcement - December 31, 2000 (fwd)
Message-ID:
____________________________________________________________________
Before a larger group can see the virtue of an idea, a
smaller group must first understand it.
"Stranger Suns"
George Zebrowski
The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate
Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com
www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087
-====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
--------------------------------------------------------------------
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 08:10:06 -0500
From: PA List Manager
To: DOSTRAVEL at LISTS.STATE.GOV
Subject: Philippines - Public Announcement - December 31, 2000
Philippines - Public Announcement
December 31, 2000
On December 30, 2000, the American Embassy in Manila, Philippines made the
following announcement to the local American community in the Philippines.
There were several explosions in the Metro Manila area on December 30, 2000.
The first one occurred at approximately 12 PM and the latest at about 2PM.
The devices went off at the LRT station at Blumentritt; Plaza Ferguson,
which is near the Embassy compound; Pasay Road near the Dusit Hotel in
Makati; the cargo terminal at Ninoy Aquino International Airport (NAIA); and
on a bus in Cubao, Quezon City. Unconfirmed reports of casualties indicate
more than 12 dead and 50 injured. No American citizens are reported among
the casualties and there has been no damage to U.S. Government facilities.
The following is very important guidance for American citizens:
--The Embassy strongly encourages all Americans to remain at their
residences for the remainder of December 30 unless it is absolutely
necessary to do otherwise. Please direct any further questions to the
Embassy's Marine Security Guard at 523-1001, extension 2311 or 2688.
--If you are in the vicinity when such an incident occurs, leave the area
immediately. Do not approach the scene of a bombing or simply stand by
during the initial investigative phase.
--If you see a suspicious object or package, do not disturb it. Immediately
notify an appropriate official, such as a police officer or building guard,
and then depart the premises.
--If you are involved in any of the above, immediately notify the Embassy
with details.
All Americans should continue to review their personal security, remain
vigilant in their personal surroundings and exercise caution. Please remain
particularly alert when out in a public setting.
For further general information on travel to the Philippines, consult the
Department's latest Consular Information Sheet for the Philippines and the
Public Announcement for the Philippines dated September 1, 2000 which this
Announcement supplements. This Public Announcement expires on March 30,
2001.
***********************************************************
See http://travel.state.gov/travel_warnings.html for
State Department Travel Warnings
************************************************************
To change your subscription, go to http://www.state.gov/www/listservs.html
From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Tue Jan 2 05:30:57 2001
From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 07:30:57 -0600 (CST)
Subject: 1 in 700 emails contains a virus...
Message-ID:
http://www.theregister.co.uk
____________________________________________________________________
Before a larger group can see the virtue of an idea, a
smaller group must first understand it.
"Stranger Suns"
George Zebrowski
The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate
Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com
www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087
-====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From bear at sonic.net Tue Jan 2 08:08:26 2001
From: bear at sonic.net (Ray Dillinger)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 08:08:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Anarchy Eroded: Project Efnext
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:
On Tue, 2 Jan 2001, Andrew Alston wrote:
>Further more, IRC does NOT take that much bandwidth, there is a myth that
>efnet NEEDS OC3 links etc because of the traffic that is passed across it,
>what people dont say is that the servers actually only run at between 1 and
>2 megabit/second if you remove the traffic from DDOS and attacks like smurf.
I have a question: given that half the bandwidth and almost all
of the spike bandwidth is devoted to smurfing, why don't IRC
servers just block multicast ping? I mean, okay, so it's in the
kernel code instead of being a separate application. It still
shouldn't be hard to come up with a patch that killed smurfing.
Pings should never be forwarded to multiple hosts.
Bear
From andrew at security.za.net Tue Jan 2 00:20:28 2001
From: andrew at security.za.net (Andrew Alston)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 10:20:28 +0200
Subject: Anarchy Eroded: Project Efnext
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010101225953.02221b90@idiom.com>
Message-ID:
I must admit Im rather sad to see efnet going this route, having been on
efnet for years and participated and become and active member of many of the
more underground channels on the network, I find it sad to see that the only
irc network where anarchy truely ruled has come to this.
I can however see their reasoning, having looked at efnext, I notice you can
no longer do certain things, /links doesnt work, which means the hubs are
hidden, and splits cant be seen, this means far less smurfing, because there
is no point to smurfing a leaf server.
You also cannot see the servers someone is linked to if you /whois them,
this stops a number of denial of service attacks.
As for IRC Operators getting involved in channel affairs, if this happens,
people WILL run to another network, maybe I live under an illusion, but I
believe that the anarchy on networks like efnet is inbred in the people, and
is not so much about the network where the people reside, but the people
themselves, and if the anarchy and the control of their own channels is
taken from them, the people will get up and move somewhere where they still
have control. Their is NOTHING forcing people to move to efnext, and
speaking from experience, setting up and running irc servers is easy, lets
face it, with a decent *nix system you can have an ircd up and running in a
matter of 5 or 10 minutes, an entire network is no more than an hour if you
are linking 10 systems.
Further more, IRC does NOT take that much bandwidth, there is a myth that
efnet NEEDS OC3 links etc because of the traffic that is passed across it,
what people dont say is that the servers actually only run at between 1 and
2 megabit/second if you remove the traffic from DDOS and attacks like smurf.
As for myself, I will still be on efnet, but other than that I will retire
to blabbernet, sure there are services there, and sure its small, but its
non-censored, anarchial, anything goes, and people dont tell me what to do.
Btw, another point I forgot to mention, there is encrypted IRC out there,
there are encrypted protocols built into scrollz for public channel, dcc,
and private message. If anyone wants more information contact me, I might
also try and release a patch for bitchx and ircII to do the same thing if I
get the time to do some coding and can figure out the crypto code (I dont do
much crypto code unfortunatly)
Anyway, the above are just my opinions.
Andrew Alston / Vortexia
irc.blabber.net - Server Administrator
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-cypherpunks at minder.net
[mailto:owner-cypherpunks at minder.net]On Behalf Of Bill Stewart
Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2001 9:00 AM
To: cypherpunks at cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Anarchy Eroded: Project Efnext
At 02:52 AM 12/31/00 -0500, dmolnar wrote:
>Something I don't see much of on the efxnet page - "why?"
>
>This is in the FAQ:
>"EFNext is the name of a project geared towards making IRC a more stable,
> uniform, chat environment."
>
>and they say "introductory document coming soon." I still don't know why
>this is happening (I don't hang out on EFnet). What do the efxnet people
>give as their reasons for a new IRC network?
Simplification of protocols so they can sell out to Microsoft/AOL? :-)
Thanks!
Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639
From adam at homeport.org Tue Jan 2 08:30:10 2001
From: adam at homeport.org (Adam Shostack)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 11:30:10 -0500
Subject: Digital Cash with dynamic range
In-Reply-To:
References:
Message-ID: <20010102113009.A27536@weathership.homeport.org>
On Mon, Jan 01, 2001 at 12:32:53PM -0800, Ray Dillinger wrote:
| Most of the protocols I'm finding for digital cash don't have much
| in the way of dynamic range. Generally, there is a range of values
| that they are designed for (rarely more than a factor of a thousand
| or so from smallest to largest) and smaller payments become
| impossible and larger payments become impractical.
|
| The problem is particularly severe for offline protocols, where you
| can't get the bank online to make change or issue arbitrary-valued
| coins.
|
| Does anyone know any happy exceptions to this rule, where payments
| ranging from a millionth of a token up through several million
| tokens could all be practical? (ie, dynamic range of the twelfth
| or higher order?)
|
| Anyway, the "practical in arbitrary amounts" assumption is pretty
| fundamental to useful money. We achieve it through bank drafts,
| checks, transfer orders, etc. But these instruments are not as
| clear how to do in a digital world where anonymity is preserved.
"Teller can not make change for bills over $20."
"Visa/MC minimum charge: $15"
"$30 fee for all wire transfers"
So, I don't agree with you that we have a payment system that works
for arbitrary amounts. Silly laws aside, paying for a multi-million
dollar purchase with cash is irksomely difficult, because
multiple thousands of dollar bills are bulky. (I'm assuming that
forgery is an important deterrent to having million dollar bills. I
know I wouldn't want to accept one.)
| In particular, I haven't found low-level details of how the "Mojo"
| tokens in use by the new MojoNation stuff work. Are they just an
| implementation of a well-documented protocol, or did they do something
| new?
I think that the Mojo guys are using un-blinded Chaumian-style cash.
(See Doug Barnes' work on 'identity-agnostic money')
Adam
--
"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once."
-Hume
From declan at well.com Tue Jan 2 09:59:01 2001
From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 12:59:01 -0500
Subject: 1 in 700 emails contains a virus...
In-Reply-To: ; from ravage@ssz.com on Tue, Jan 02, 2001 at 07:30:57AM -0600
References:
Message-ID: <20010102125901.C18538@cluebot.com>
Jim, are you being intentionally obtuse? Not everyone reads your
email messages the same day; the home page changes. Send an exact
URL, please. It's only polite.
-Declan
On Tue, Jan 02, 2001 at 07:30:57AM -0600, Jim Choate wrote:
>
> http://www.theregister.co.uk
>
> ____________________________________________________________________
>
> Before a larger group can see the virtue of an idea, a
> smaller group must first understand it.
>
> "Stranger Suns"
> George Zebrowski
>
> The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate
> Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com
> www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087
> -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>
From owner-cypherpunks at toad.com Tue Jan 2 02:16:27 2001
From: owner-cypherpunks at toad.com (owner-cypherpunks at toad.com)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 13:16:27 +0300
Subject: Q@L[E ONQKEDMHE OPNCP@LL[ AEQOK@RMN
Message-ID: <200101021019.CAA29283@toad.com>
QNTR AEQOK at RMN
www.soft2001.nm.ru
From sunder at sunder.net Tue Jan 2 11:37:33 2001
From: sunder at sunder.net (sunder)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 14:37:33 -0500
Subject: Alien hunters devise world's smallest microphone
Message-ID: <3A522DFD.A1361B40@sunder.net>
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/2/15755.html
Alien hunters devise world's smallest microphone
By: Lucy Sherriff
Posted: 02/01/2001 at 15:51 GMT
Researchers at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory claim to have devised the most sensitive listening device ever. Designed to enable
robot explorers to listen out for life on other planets, the tiny microphone could theoretically detect the sound of a single cell
growing.
--
----------------------Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos---------------------------
+ ^ + :Surveillance cameras|Passwords are like underwear. You don't /|\
\|/ :aren't security. A |share them, you don't hang them on your/\|/\
<--*-->:camera won't stop a |monitor, or under your keyboard, you \/|\/
/|\ :masked killer, but |don't email them, or put them on a web \|/
+ v + :will violate privacy|site, and you must change them very often.
--------_sunder_ at _sunder_._net_------- http://www.sunder.net ------------
From comeback at pogo.com Tue Jan 2 15:01:42 2001
From: comeback at pogo.com (comeback at pogo.com)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 15:01:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Come back to pogo.com!
Message-ID: <23736436.978476502902.JavaMail.cdc-ops@chef.pogo.com>
Dear cypherpunk0,
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We're inviting you to come back to pogo.com and see all the fun you've been missing. To show how much we care, we'll give you 250 tokens AND a chance to win $500.00 in CASH just for coming back.
Account name: cypherpunk0
Password: password
Your Token Balance: 3577
Check out some of our newest and most popular games:
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What more do we need to say - it's a chance to win ONE MILLION DOLLARS!
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Jump to the games! Go to: http://play.pogo.com/ten/misc/welcome-back.jsp?site=pogo
AOL members, click here to jump to the games!
To unsubscribe from all future pogo.com mailings, go to:
http://play.pogo.com/ten/unsubscribe/remove-e-mail.jsp?pid=klmtqtvlkvlmtngr&site=pogo
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From sunder at sunder.net Tue Jan 2 12:08:28 2001
From: sunder at sunder.net (sunder)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 15:08:28 -0500
Subject: "...A Heaping dose of FUD..."
Message-ID: <3A52353C.8655857E@sunder.net>
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/15731.html
Clinton Admin goes out in a blaze of cyber-terror
By: Thomas C Greene in Washington
Posted: 30/12/2000 at 20:06 GMT
No Clinton Administration swan song would be complete without a heaping dose of cyber-crime FUD. We have not been disappointed.
National Security Advisor Richard Clark and National Infrastructure Protection Centre (NIPC) Director Michael Vatis are clanging the
cymbals again, warning that this year's New Year's cyber attacks might be even more devastating than last year's New Year's cyber
attacks.
You remember last year's New Year's cyber attacks, right?
Right. Neither do we. But this time the sky really is falling, we are assured. Apparently, a vast number of personal computers have
been turned into "zombies" (clients) for the Mother of all DDoS attacks, expected to commence New Year's Eve.
We think the only real "zombies" plugged into the Net are the living dead who would believe this drivel.
$30.5 million for Digital Storm, an FBI programme upgrading old-fashioned analogue signals collection gear with slick new digital
stuff; $100 million for an overall FBI technology upgrade called the Information Sharing Initiative;
--
----------------------Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos---------------------------
+ ^ + :Surveillance cameras|Passwords are like underwear. You don't /|\
\|/ :aren't security. A |share them, you don't hang them on your/\|/\
<--*-->:camera won't stop a |monitor, or under your keyboard, you \/|\/
/|\ :masked killer, but |don't email them, or put them on a web \|/
+ v + :will violate privacy|site, and you must change them very often.
--------_sunder_ at _sunder_._net_------- http://www.sunder.net ------------
From geronik at csd.uoc.gr Tue Jan 2 05:32:02 2001
From: geronik at csd.uoc.gr (FRANKY)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 15:32:02 +0200 (EET)
Subject: In need of help ...
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010101215330.02203d90@idiom.com>
Message-ID:
Happy New Year to every member of this list!
I'm Alexis- I've asked for your help one more time- and once again I'm
in need of your knowledge.
This time I'm interested in security based on hardware. I understand
there are some hardware components providing security in data exchange.
The question is where can i find more information about such chips
(specific Url's maybe).
What really interests me, is to find out which of these chips (if any) are
allowed (by the US Law) to be exported out of the United States.
I you know something more please let me know!
I would really appreciate your help.
Thanx in advance.
Alexis
From hem_nadia at hotmail.com Tue Jan 2 05:55:06 2001
From: hem_nadia at hotmail.com (nadia em)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 15:55:06 +0200
Subject: soul catcher
Message-ID:
Sir, I read your article about the soul catcher and I would like to let you
know that this device exists in my head since 2ed January 1988 after I had a
car accident after quitting work for some government relative who harassed
me both sexually and verbally and then had this thing inserted in my head so
he could harass me endlessly, I am an engineer and I've been looking for
evidence since the accident and at last in last mars I found the articles
about the s.c. , I've been sending letters to influential people since the
accident, I smell strange odors, my eyes glow in the dark when I open them
but I don't see that in a mirror, the sound of radio waves transmitting I
keep hearing in my left ear endlessly since the accident, I can't describe
how horrid it is to be in this situation, there are more details than you
can imagine and all horrid, I would like to forget about the whole thing but
that thing doesn't let me with the audio visual effects I keep getting ,not
to mention what have my life become, to put it in a few words I'm ruined and
if I sound paranoid don't believe it cause I'm not , I'm just made to seem
this way and this device is more than just a lethal weapon it doesn't just
kill it mutilates one's being in every since of the word and with the
unbelievable amount of corruption in this country it is very easy to get
away with mass murder if you know the "wrong" people like this very high
ranked government relative , don�t know what to do more than to commit
suicide and I don't want this thing that is supposed to be man and human get
away with such a deed because if he does then this world has come to an end,
rich people won't just kill poor people or use them but they will be their
cyber slaves, and I'm not poor at all actually I'm considered rich I'm just
not a billionaire like he is, endless torture for honest loving people who
won't sell their souls, ethics and loved ones for money, the end of
humanity.
This is not a story or some kind of wise crack this is real and happening
and I want to end it but unless I find some one to help me it won't, much
more painful details.
S.O.S.
Engineer/ nadia el mofty
1-b, messaha st. dokki, giza, egypt
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
From schear at lvcm.com Tue Jan 2 17:43:47 2001
From: schear at lvcm.com (Steve Schear)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 17:43:47 -0800
Subject: Anarchy Eroded: Project Efnext
In-Reply-To: <200012311801.eBVI1Ma16315@artifact.psychedelic.net>
References:
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20010102174243.07ae0e00@pop3.lvcm.com>
At 10:01 AM 12/31/00 -0800, Eric Cordian wrote:
>Jim Choate writes:
>
>Making people "part of the process" is one of the first things one learns
>in management. How to simultaneously make sure they have zero chance of
>actually altering what you have planned for them is the second thing.
>
> > They already are, and have been for years. Usenet is another service that
> > could use some sort of p2p datahaven environment. This should be one of
> > the Cypherpunk 'target projects'.
>
>Uh, right. Let us know when you have working code.
It shouldn't be very hard to bridge Usenet and Mojo Nation.
steve
From roy at scytale.com Tue Jan 2 16:14:30 2001
From: roy at scytale.com (Roy M. Silvernail)
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 19:14:30 -0500
Subject: Janet Reno on IP, piracy and terrorism
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010102191028.00ac6c20@pop3.idt.net>
A quote from http://www.thestandard.com/article/display/0,1151,20985,00.html:
" Criminal organizations appear to be using the proceeds of
IP-infringing products to facilitate a variety of enterprises,
including guns, drugs, pornography and even terrorism. Invariably,
when there is intellectual property crime, there is tax evasion and
money laundering."
Note that last sentence.
Full report at:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/WH/EOP/NSC/html/documents/pub45270/pub45270index.html
From OffshoreAffiliates at hotmail.com Tue Jan 2 20:01:38 2001
From: OffshoreAffiliates at hotmail.com (OffshoreAffiliates at hotmail.com)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 20:01:38 -0800
Subject: Important New Affiliate Program has Full Global Reach. You Are Invited.
Message-ID: <200101030401.UAA23040@shell1.webquarry.com>
Dear Potential Associate,
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From dmolnar at hcs.harvard.edu Tue Jan 2 18:14:11 2001
From: dmolnar at hcs.harvard.edu (dmolnar)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 21:14:11 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Anarchy Eroded: Project Efnext
In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.0.20010102174243.07ae0e00@pop3.lvcm.com>
Message-ID:
On Tue, 2 Jan 2001, Steve Schear wrote:
> >
> >Uh, right. Let us know when you have working code.
>
> It shouldn't be very hard to bridge Usenet and Mojo Nation.
If memory serves, there is a project underway to do "usenet-on-freenet."
-David
From ANTIGEN_EXCHANGE at thinklinkinc.com Tue Jan 2 22:26:05 2001
From: ANTIGEN_EXCHANGE at thinklinkinc.com (ANTIGEN_EXCHANGE)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 22:26:05 -0800
Subject: Antigen found W32/Hybris@m virus
Message-ID: <3475CE1F1D75D4118174009027A4CDE6322C3D@exchange.sfocorp.thinklinkinc.com>
Antigen for Exchange found joke.exe infected with W32/Hybris at m virus.
The file is currently Deleted. The message, "Snowhite and the Seven Dwarfs
- The REAL story!", was
sent from Hahaha and was discovered in IMC Queues\Inbound
located at ITC/Corporate/EXCHANGE.
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From adam at cypherspace.org Tue Jan 2 19:39:23 2001
From: adam at cypherspace.org (Adam Back)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 22:39:23 -0500
Subject: monkey-wrenching efnext
Message-ID: <200101030339.WAA01228@modemcable069.22-201-24.mtl.mc.videotron.ca>
So it appears these efnext people are letting the administrator
control freak method to "fix" problems. (The tendency to impose more
authentication, more logging, more central control -- instead of
fixing broken protocols -- the easy way out because it's simpler to
implement, though politically and technically broken).
Clearly they are making a mistake.
What could be done to persuade them or educate them that endeavour is
bad for net privacy?
Some possible technical / social engineering backlashes:
- someone will create some abuse that causes the central
administrators and thought police to become legally liable. Perhaps
even designer abuse -- "abuse" anonymously created for the effect it
will have on the operators. (Where's Dimitri Vulis when we need
him?)
- they are probably dumb and have done a bad job of making their
changes -- their new centralised controls will get hacked, and their
network will prove even more susceptible to catastrophic DoS than
the original ircd.
- people aren't really trying hard to disrupt IRC -- there are
doubtless many much more malicious and harder to stop ways to
disrupt it. People might demonstrate some of these attacks on their
central failure points.
Adam
From adam at cypherspace.org Tue Jan 2 20:04:48 2001
From: adam at cypherspace.org (Adam Back)
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 23:04:48 -0500
Subject: Anarchy Eroded: Project Efnext
Message-ID: <200101030404.XAA01320@modemcable069.22-201-24.mtl.mc.videotron.ca>
> One of the problems that efnext is trying to address, and a cause of
> network instability is DOS attacks against servers by little kiddies
> that want to take over channels.
So what they should do is fix those problems robustly. Instead
they're using central control as a "fix". They get to decide what is
abuse. They probably don't appreciate the kinds of problems that can
arise from that (see my other comments about designer abuse and the
implied risks of assuming editorial control that some ISPs have faced
etc).
It's typically easier to design hierarchical or even single central
control systems than distributed systems. DoS resistance is hard too.
The real solution to Distributed DoS is Distributed Service and
they're headed in the wrong direction with that.
> Not that I'm for or against the new network, but it seems that
> building a consensus and peer review of the protocols would be a
> good thing.
Indeed. They're probably relatively clue free also. (Just downloaded
the tar ball to reverse engineer what they are actually doing).
> As for the fear that this will lead to central control and
> monitoring of the IRC network, my guess is that IRC is already
> heavily monitored.
The problem is central control not monitoring -- monitoring affects
privacy, central control affects free speech.
(It's in clear text already, and they're not proposing to do anything
about this -- and for the application -- public chat -- it's unclear
how well you can protect privacy -- any narcs can just join in the
discussion.)
> It's a hell of a lot more trivial than Usenet with only 33 servers
> on the network, and each communication tagged with the hostname or
> IP address that originated it.
So the low number of servers is bad for protecting free speech also.
Also on the plus side it's not that big a network to fork with a fork
keeping the old protocols, with robust distributed DoS fixes. A
corrolorary of Lucky's comment that there's more demand for crypto
than people competent to do it -- there aren't enough crypto clueful
people to keep up with internet protocols and steer them in sensible
directions.
Adam
From hahaha at sexyfun.net Tue Jan 2 22:20:19 2001
From: hahaha at sexyfun.net (Hahaha)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 01:20:19 -0500
Subject: Snowhite and the Seven Dwarfs - The REAL story!
Message-ID: <06201952273030@ntmail.okeechobee.com>
Today, Snowhite was turning 18. The 7 Dwarfs always where very educated and
polite with Snowhite. When they go out work at mornign, they promissed a
*huge* surprise. Snowhite was anxious. Suddlently, the door open, and the Seven
Dwarfs enter...
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From hector at hectorinspector.freeserve.co.uk Wed Jan 3 03:11:02 2001
From: hector at hectorinspector.freeserve.co.uk (hector)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 06:11:02 -0500
Subject: S-tools
Message-ID: <000a01c07575$84c1f120$b45d893e@oemcomputer>
A couple of years ago, there was a program around that would extract the password from a file created with S-tools. Does anyone remember the program name and/or where I can get hold of it. Source code would be nice too.
Muchas Gracias
Hector
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From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Wed Jan 3 05:31:59 2001
From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 07:31:59 -0600 (CST)
Subject: OceanStore - anonymous and distributed data storage?
Message-ID:
http://slashdot.org (it's a vector to Forbes).
____________________________________________________________________
Before a larger group can see the virtue of an idea, a
smaller group must first understand it.
"Stranger Suns"
George Zebrowski
The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate
Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com
www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087
-====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From andrew at security.za.net Tue Jan 2 21:36:38 2001
From: andrew at security.za.net (Andrew Alston)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 07:36:38 +0200
Subject: Anarchy Eroded: Project Efnext
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:
The answer to this question is actually fairly simple, it is VERY easy to
block smurfing in the form of amplification, I.E that is to say that you can
stop yourself being an amplifier, this helps your outgoing bandwidth.
However, to stop yourself being smurfed you have to stop all incoming ICMP
Echo Reply packets coming into your host at your upstream, because what you
are getting from a smurf are NOT ping request packets, they are ICMP echo
reply packets coming from other amplifiers, which means you could be getting
ICMP echo reply packets from 10 thousand + hosts at a time, and there is
little you can do to block it other than have your uplink firewall it. The
problem is that by the time the ICMP reaches the uplink, the uplink has
probably been saturated, or at least is upset enough over their loss of
bandwidth to possibly cut your connectivity. It is pretty pointless
blocking ICMP echo replies on the IRC server itself as well, because by the
time the packets get dropped at the server, they have already passed over
the lines and saturated the lines.
Kinda sad hey?
Andrew Alston
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-cypherpunks at minder.net
[mailto:owner-cypherpunks at minder.net]On Behalf Of Ray Dillinger
Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2001 6:08 PM
To: Andrew Alston
Cc: cypherpunks at cyberpass.net
Subject: RE: Anarchy Eroded: Project Efnext
On Tue, 2 Jan 2001, Andrew Alston wrote:
>Further more, IRC does NOT take that much bandwidth, there is a myth that
>efnet NEEDS OC3 links etc because of the traffic that is passed across it,
>what people dont say is that the servers actually only run at between 1 and
>2 megabit/second if you remove the traffic from DDOS and attacks like
smurf.
I have a question: given that half the bandwidth and almost all
of the spike bandwidth is devoted to smurfing, why don't IRC
servers just block multicast ping? I mean, okay, so it's in the
kernel code instead of being a separate application. It still
shouldn't be hard to come up with a patch that killed smurfing.
Pings should never be forwarded to multiple hosts.
Bear
From johnjones at themail.com Tue Jan 2 04:57:10 2001
From: johnjones at themail.com (johnjones at themail.com)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 07:57:10 +1900
Subject: The Only Automated Tools You Will Ever Need
Message-ID: <200101031257.HAA23200@ns.getmassivehits.com>
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From ANTIGEN_BAMBI at cognex.com Wed Jan 3 05:31:28 2001
From: ANTIGEN_BAMBI at cognex.com (ANTIGEN_BAMBI)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 08:31:28 -0500
Subject: Antigen found W32/Hybris-B virus
Message-ID: <0E2AA31B2BF2C845BC9F8D7E330BDFF442BD@bambi.pc.cognex.com>
Antigen for Exchange found joke.exe infected with W32/Hybris-B virus.
The file is currently Deleted. The message, "CDR: Snowhite and the Seven
Dwarfs - The REAL story!", was
sent from Hahaha and was discovered in IMC Queues\Inbound
located at Cognex/Natick/BAMBI.
From roy at scytale.com Wed Jan 3 06:14:02 2001
From: roy at scytale.com (Roy Silvernail)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 09:14:02 -0500
Subject: OceanStore - anonymous and distributed data storage?
Message-ID: <000501c0758f$4c2d3c60$1301a8c0@rms.acroloop.com>
Jim Choate said:
>http://slashdot.org (it's a vector to Forbes).
No, that's Slashdot.
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/01/03/0628240 is the actual Slashdot
story.
http://www.forbes.com/futuretech/forbes/2001/0108/242.html is a vector to
Forbes.
(and I thought 2001 was going to improve...)
From mmotyka at lsil.com Wed Jan 3 09:25:03 2001
From: mmotyka at lsil.com (mmotyka at lsil.com)
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 09:25:03 -0800
Subject: Janet Reno on IP, piracy and terrorism
Message-ID: <3A53606F.3552F6FF@lsil.com>
> A quote from
> http://www.thestandard.com/article/display/0,1151,20985,00.html:
>
> " Criminal organizations appear to be using the proceeds of
> IP-infringing products to facilitate a variety of enterprises,
> including guns, drugs, pornography and even terrorism. Invariably,
> when there is intellectual property crime, there is tax evasion and
> money laundering."
>
> Note that last sentence.
>
Yes. She's absolutely right. Just look at the DeCSS development. Clearly
a case of drug and gun dealing terrorists developing SW to fund their
nefarious activities. Same as Napster. What a stupid shit. Think the
next prez will do any better picking an AG? Don't bet on it.
From roy at scytale.com Wed Jan 3 06:25:04 2001
From: roy at scytale.com (Roy Silvernail)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 09:25:04 -0500
Subject: Janet Reno on IP, piracy and terrorism
Message-ID: <000701c07590$dd459840$1301a8c0@rms.acroloop.com>
From ssyreeni at cc.helsinki.fi Wed Jan 3 00:23:18 2001
From: ssyreeni at cc.helsinki.fi (Sampo A Syreeni)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 10:23:18 +0200 (EET)
Subject: Anarchy Eroded: Project Efnext
In-Reply-To: <200101030404.XAA01320@modemcable069.22-201-24.mtl.mc.videotron.ca>
Message-ID:
On Tue, 2 Jan 2001, Adam Back wrote:
>> One of the problems that efnext is trying to address, and a cause of
>> network instability is DOS attacks against servers by little kiddies
>> that want to take over channels.
>
>So what they should do is fix those problems robustly. Instead
>they're using central control as a "fix".
AFAIK, the main changes related to DoS resilience have nothing to do with
centralized control, but rather making the low level operation of the server
network less visible. Nothing inherently wrong with that, I think. Remote
k and the new ojoin are what people worry about.
Sampo Syreeni , aka decoy, student/math/Helsinki university
From declan at well.com Wed Jan 3 11:43:00 2001
From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 11:43:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: ADL lauds Yahoo for switching on French Nazi case
Message-ID:
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 14:37:25 -0500
From: "Rosado, Frances"
Subject: ADL PR - Yahoo!
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Contact: Myrna Shinbaum (212) 885-7747
Todd Gutnick (212) 885-7755
ADL COMMENDS YAHOO FOR ACTION BANNING
NAZI MEMORABILIA AND OTHER HATEFUL ITEMS ON ITS AUCTION SITE
New York, NY, January 3, 2001 ... The Anti-Defamation League (ADL) today
commended Yahoo! for its decision to take steps to remove hateful materials
from its Internet auctions, calling it a "creative solution to combat the
flood of Nazi memorabilia and other offensive and hateful items being hawked
for sale to the highest bidder in their online auctions."
Glen A. Tobias, ADL National Chairman, and Abraham H. Foxman, ADL
National Director, issued the following statement:
We commend Yahoo! for its decision to ensure
that hateful materials do not appear in its online auctions. We believe
Yahoo! has come up with a creative solution to combat the flood of Nazi
memorabilia and other offensive or hateful items being hawked for sale to
the highest bidder in their online auctions.
While there is no law in the United States
against selling these items to the public, they were clearly offensive to
many individuals who frequent the auction site. Yahoo! has recognized this
public concern and demonstrated corporate responsibility by establishing
guidelines for users who wish to sell items online and actively monitoring
auction rooms for inappropriate or offensive content. Yahoo!'s decision
means that the Internet provider is taking a more proactive role in
enforcing its own "Terms of Service," which forbid the posting of content
that is hateful or otherwise objectionable.
The Internet is a great tool for education
and communication, but it continues to pose complex issues, requiring
Internet companies to walk a fine line between free expression and
inappropriate or hateful conduct. Internet companies need to be continually
on watch for hateful content and, when appropriate, to respond with similar
solutions.
The Anti-Defamation League, founded in 1913, is the world's leading
organization fighting anti-Semitism through programs and services that
counteract hatred, prejudice and bigotry.
From bf at mindspring.com Wed Jan 3 09:08:24 2001
From: bf at mindspring.com (Blank Frank)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 12:08:24 -0500
Subject: N.H. Lawmaker Advocates Killing Police Who Cross the Line: From The
Message-ID: <3A535BEF.EC1C99C8@mindspring.com>
http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGA5EN19JHC.html
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From bf at mindspring.com Wed Jan 3 09:10:03 2001
From: bf at mindspring.com (Blank Frank)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 12:10:03 -0500
Subject: Yahoo gives in to french fascists
Message-ID: <3A535C58.7D3D5907@mindspring.com>
http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGAM7Y56JHC.html
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From INTIWARDAL at ANDINANET.NET Wed Jan 3 09:29:23 2001
From: INTIWARDAL at ANDINANET.NET (ORLANDO OLEAS)
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 12:29:23 -0500
Subject: alt.anonymous.messages
Message-ID: <3A536172.2E94546C@ANDINANET.NET>
Por favor ayudame lo más pronto posible con 2 preguntas:
1ra) Cuando ya me he bajado el partition magic, existen:
Nombre de archivo Dimensiones Propiedades de la imagen
Descripción
----------- ------- ---------------- -----------
devotion 8KB
file_id.diz 1KB
firesite 1KB
Hom 2KB
m-ppm6.r00 2.813KB
m-ppm6.r01 2.813KB
m-ppm6.r02 2.813KB
m-ppm6.r03 2.813KB
m-ppm6.r04 2.813KB
m-ppm6.r05 2.813KB
m-ppm6.r06 2.813KB
m-ppm6.r07 2.813KB
m-ppm6.r08 2.813KB
m-ppm6.r09 2.813KB
m-ppm6.r10 2.813KB
m-ppm6.r11 2.813KB
m-ppm6.r12 2.813KB
m-ppm6.r13 2.813KB
m-ppm6.r14 19KB
m-ppm6.rar 2.813KB
Mfd 9KB
QUE DEBO HACER? COMO LOS HAGO EJECUTABLES PARA PODER INSTALAR EL
PARTITION MAGIC
2da) Que como podré identificarlos si se pasan a otro sitio porque el
suyo me ha parecido estupendo? o a su vez mejor envíenme un e-mail o un
mensaje secreto a mi dirección de correo: kondortra at hotmail.com
Gracias por la ayuda, en este momento tengo que hacer muchos deberes de
la U pero pienso ayudarles, pueden poner su web en www.gratisweb.com
GRACIAS POR SU AYUDA, SE LO SUPLICO NECESITO INSTALAR ESTE PARTITION
MAGIC, MUCHAS GRACIAS.
From tcmay at got.net Wed Jan 3 09:43:38 2001
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 12:43:38 -0500
Subject: Yahoo gives in to french fascists
In-Reply-To: <3A535C58.7D3D5907@mindspring.com>
References: <3A535C58.7D3D5907@mindspring.com>
Message-ID:
"Blank Frank,"
Please spend a few moments only including a URL. We don't need
listings of the Tampa Bay Weather Center info and "Premier Clothing
from Huntington" advertisements in our e-mail.
I'll check back later. For now, your stuff goes to my trash folder.
--Tim May
At 12:10 PM -0500 1/3/01, Blank Frank wrote:
>http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGAM7Y56JHC.html
>
>
>Site List: Tampa Bay Online The Tampa Tribune WFLA Weather Center
>Hernando Today Highlands Today FloridaInfo.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> N E W S
>Breaking News
>
>Florida
>
>
"B
--
Timothy C. May tcmay at got.net Corralitos, California
Political: Co-founder Cypherpunks/crypto anarchy/Cyphernomicon
Technical: physics/soft errors/Smalltalk/Squeak/agents/games/Go
Personal: b.1951/UCSB/Intel '74-'86/retired/investor/motorcycles/guns
From jburnes at savvis.net Wed Jan 3 11:09:20 2001
From: jburnes at savvis.net (Jim Burnes)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 14:09:20 -0500
Subject: Yahoo gives in to french fascists
In-Reply-To: <3A535C58.7D3D5907@mindspring.com>
References: <3A535C58.7D3D5907@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <01010313101401.00569@reality.eng.savvis.net>
On Wednesday 03 January 2001 11:10, Blank Frank wrote:
> http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGAM7Y56JHC.html
I really doesn't matter what Yahoo decides to do. Ebay is much
larger anyway.
What I want to know is who at Yahoo decides what material is hate
related?
Does this ban you from selling Bibles, The Koran or the Talmud
on Yahoo? I'm sure you can find racist "Them vs. Us" themes in all those
works.
The comment on glorification of violence was interesting.
Can you sell a video tape of "Blood Sport"? How about any war
movie or book that glorifies heroism, bravery or the warrior
spirit? Who decides if they are glorifying or simply portraying
violence as a means to and end.
BTW: You could have spared us from posting an embedded URL. While
my mail client can handle it, its one of the worst forms of spam.
jim burnes
--
Sometimes it is said that man can not be trusted with the government of
himself. Can he, then, be trusted with the government of others? Or have we
found angels in the forms of kings to govern him? Let history answer this
question. -- Thomas Jefferson, 1st Inaugural
From hseaver at harmon.arrowhead.lib.mn.us Wed Jan 3 11:22:28 2001
From: hseaver at harmon.arrowhead.lib.mn.us (Harmon Seaver)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 14:22:28 -0500
Subject: Janet Reno on IP, piracy and terrorism
References: <3A53606F.3552F6FF@lsil.com>
Message-ID: <3A537BE0.4A4E9E96@harmon.arrowhead.lib.mn.us>
mmotyka at lsil.com wrote:
> nefarious activities. Same as Napster. What a stupid shit. Think the
> next prez will do any better picking an AG? Don't bet on it.
Bet on it? We don't have to do that -- look who he picked. Asscroft,
the boob who got beat by a dead man. Check out his ultra-fascist voting
record. Gag. Barf.
--
Harmon Seaver, MLIS Systems Librarian
Arrowhead Library System Virginia, MN
(218) 741-3840 hseaver at arrowhead.lib.mn.us
http://harmon.arrowhead.lib.mn.us
From bf at mindspring.com Wed Jan 3 11:31:00 2001
From: bf at mindspring.com (Blank Frank)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 14:31:00 -0500
Subject: Report: E.Germany Used Nuclear Tags on Dissidents
Message-ID: <3A537D66.1E9E6998@mindspring.com>
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010103/sc/stasi_dc_1.html
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From agl at linuxpower.org Wed Jan 3 11:52:07 2001
From: agl at linuxpower.org (Adam Langley)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 14:52:07 -0500
Subject: FCC Slaps Anti-Drug TV Shows
Message-ID: <20010103200042.B5316@linuxpower.org>
Quotes from http://washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A52094-2000Dec26.html
"Federal regulators have ruled that the major networks should have identified the White House as a sponsor of programs such as "The Practice," "The Drew Carey Show" and "America's Most Wanted" when their plots included anti-drug messages for which the government paid the networks millions of dollars"
"During the past two years, networks including ABC, CBS, NBC and Fox received a total of $25 million for including anti-drug messages in prime-time programming. It was revealed at congressional hearings that the White House reviewed scripts for more than 100 shows to determine if the anti-drug message of a particular program was strong enough to merit payment"
"We have been told by these programmers that they have influenced the programs in order to please the government. That is not the kind of free press we have grown accustomed to," Stroup said
--end--
Aren't you glad that your tax $$$ are being spent so well?
I guess this is what they mean when they talk about educating
the population.
AGL
--
The Street finds its own uses for technology.
From tom at ricardo.de Wed Jan 3 06:08:39 2001
From: tom at ricardo.de (Tom)
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 15:08:39 +0100
Subject: Janet Reno on IP, piracy and terrorism
References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010102191028.00ac6c20@pop3.idt.net>
Message-ID: <3A533267.210A9225@ricardo.de>
"Roy M. Silvernail" wrote:
>
> A quote from http://www.thestandard.com/article/display/0,1151,20985,00.html:
>
> " Criminal organizations appear to be using the proceeds of
> IP-infringing products to facilitate a variety of enterprises,
> including guns, drugs, pornography and even terrorism. Invariably,
> when there is intellectual property crime, there is tax evasion and
> money laundering."
>
> Note that last sentence.
she forgot to mention child abuse.
From lolly at biperson.com Wed Jan 3 18:18:57 2001
From: lolly at biperson.com (lolly at biperson.com)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 18:18:57 -0800
Subject: If you come only once, you've been cheated.
Message-ID: <200101040218.SAA26232@biperson.com>
Our motto: More tail for less money.
We've got whining, spoiled, American bitches getting what's coming to
them. And liking it!
Spum guzzling hose hogs who can't live without a white boy's jimmy or
a black boy's cactus in their mouths 24 hours a day! (We have to
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Sign me up Jack!!!
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Latin lovelies getting their tacos stuffed with the biggest beef in
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Remember that teacher with big knobs whose skirt you used to look up?
Yes? Well, we got her too!
Young? Old? Thick? Thin? Tall? Short? Whatever! If it's got a hole
and a temperature we've got it!
http://64.19.199.34/index.html
From lolly at biperson.com Wed Jan 3 18:18:57 2001
From: lolly at biperson.com (lolly at biperson.com)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 18:18:57 -0800
Subject: If you come only once, you've been cheated.
Message-ID: <200101040218.SAA26228@biperson.com>
Our motto: More tail for less money.
We've got whining, spoiled, American bitches getting what's coming to
them. And liking it!
Spum guzzling hose hogs who can't live without a white boy's jimmy or
a black boy's cactus in their mouths 24 hours a day! (We have to
punish them when they swallow instead of taking it on the face!)
Delicate, oriental beauties with tight cooters getting split down the
middle, lumberjack style!
Sign me up Jack!!!
Gorgeous, buxom, chocolate wenches that will make your snicker caramel
its nuts!
Latin lovelies getting their tacos stuffed with the biggest beef in
Texas!
Remember that teacher with big knobs whose skirt you used to look up?
Yes? Well, we got her too!
Young? Old? Thick? Thin? Tall? Short? Whatever! If it's got a hole
and a temperature we've got it!
http://64.19.199.34/index.html
From lolly at biperson.com Wed Jan 3 18:18:57 2001
From: lolly at biperson.com (lolly at biperson.com)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 18:18:57 -0800
Subject: If you come only once, you've been cheated.
Message-ID: <200101040218.SAA26235@biperson.com>
Our motto: More tail for less money.
We've got whining, spoiled, American bitches getting what's coming to
them. And liking it!
Spum guzzling hose hogs who can't live without a white boy's jimmy or
a black boy's cactus in their mouths 24 hours a day! (We have to
punish them when they swallow instead of taking it on the face!)
Delicate, oriental beauties with tight cooters getting split down the
middle, lumberjack style!
Sign me up Jack!!!
Gorgeous, buxom, chocolate wenches that will make your snicker caramel
its nuts!
Latin lovelies getting their tacos stuffed with the biggest beef in
Texas!
Remember that teacher with big knobs whose skirt you used to look up?
Yes? Well, we got her too!
Young? Old? Thick? Thin? Tall? Short? Whatever! If it's got a hole
and a temperature we've got it!
http://64.19.199.34/index.html
From lolly at biperson.com Wed Jan 3 18:18:58 2001
From: lolly at biperson.com (lolly at biperson.com)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 18:18:58 -0800
Subject: If you come only once, you've been cheated.
Message-ID: <200101040218.SAA26238@biperson.com>
Our motto: More tail for less money.
We've got whining, spoiled, American bitches getting what's coming to
them. And liking it!
Spum guzzling hose hogs who can't live without a white boy's jimmy or
a black boy's cactus in their mouths 24 hours a day! (We have to
punish them when they swallow instead of taking it on the face!)
Delicate, oriental beauties with tight cooters getting split down the
middle, lumberjack style!
Sign me up Jack!!!
Gorgeous, buxom, chocolate wenches that will make your snicker caramel
its nuts!
Latin lovelies getting their tacos stuffed with the biggest beef in
Texas!
Remember that teacher with big knobs whose skirt you used to look up?
Yes? Well, we got her too!
Young? Old? Thick? Thin? Tall? Short? Whatever! If it's got a hole
and a temperature we've got it!
http://64.19.199.34/index.html
From subscriptions at webnoize.com Wed Jan 3 15:26:43 2001
From: subscriptions at webnoize.com (subscriptions at webnoize.com)
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 19:26:43 -0400
Subject: Webnoize Subscription Reminder
Message-ID: <200101040027.TAA28331@smtp.webnoize.com>
Hello,
Below is the copy of your Webnoize user name and password that you requested.
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From subscriptions at webnoize.com Wed Jan 3 17:13:05 2001
From: subscriptions at webnoize.com (subscriptions at webnoize.com)
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 21:13:05 -0400
Subject: Webnoize Subscription Deactivation
Message-ID: <200101040213.VAA28384@smtp.webnoize.com>
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From honig at sprynet.com Wed Jan 3 18:46:39 2001
From: honig at sprynet.com (David Honig)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 21:46:39 -0500
Subject: ADL lauds Yahoo for switching on French Nazi case
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010103180226.007aa7a0@pop.sprynet.com>
At 03:01 PM 1/3/01 -0500, Declan McCullagh wrote:
>
>ADL COMMENDS YAHOO FOR ACTION BANNING
>NAZI MEMORABILIA AND OTHER HATEFUL ITEMS ON ITS AUCTION SITE
>
How many days before the NAACP starts working on banning
Confederate paraphenalia?
there is no god and murphy is his prophet
From comptonjr at txucom.net Wed Jan 3 20:43:53 2001
From: comptonjr at txucom.net (graham compton,Jr.)
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 22:43:53 -0600
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <000801c07608$f29a7a80$470222d1@default>
my dog was poisoned by ricin. do you know the antidote? Thanks, GSC Jr
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From anmetet at mixmaster.shinn.net Wed Jan 3 21:35:09 2001
From: anmetet at mixmaster.shinn.net (An Metet)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 00:35:09 -0500
Subject: Web sites feed boom in sex trade and slavery
Message-ID: <7f8c4c9657708a84e9c9b48a7ba0f82f@mixmaster.shinn.net>
Published Wednesday, Jan. 3, 2001, in the San Jose Mercury News
BY KEVIN G. HALL
Mercury News Rio de Janeiro Bureau
RIO DE JANEIRO, Brazil -- At Agencia Roberta, a call-girl service in this tourist haven known for sun and sin, business is booming, thanks in large part to the Internet.
Italians, Germans, Americans and other foreigners can make arrangements for services in advance, even before their planes touch down. The oldest profession in the world is getting a boost from the newest technology.
``It's globalization,'' explains Vanessa, a manager of the online escort service that charges men about $150 for three hours of pleasure.
``Everybody has a Web page. All the prostitutes know about this,'' says Betty, a freelance hooker in Rio who speaks over a rattling television and the laughter of children. She advertises her Web site in the Brazilian newspaper O Globo.
The Internet gained early fame as a tool to arrange consensual sex via chat rooms. But it also has a more sinister function. It has become a tool that aids the exploitation of women who are tricked or forced into prostitution around the world. Digital cameras mean these women find themselves performing sex acts for voyeurs across the globe. With a few clicks of a computer mouse, a man can log on anywhere from suburban Maryland to rural Montana and be transported instantly to a bedroom in Thailand or the Ukraine.
``People can get so selective that they can now see a particular type of woman doing a type of act, and can do that from a global connection out of sight. Over time, it will increase the demand for real sex slaves,'' warned J. Robert Flores, vice president of the National Law Center for Children and Families in Fairfax, Va., and a former high-ranking official in the Department of Justice's obscenity and child-exploitation division.
Law enforcement officials have known that women are often held against their will and forced into sex at Asian brothels or those controlled by the Russian mob, even in the United States. But now there is a new twist: The act can be sold around the world, Flores said.
``The Internet has made the sex market even stronger, and has even made it possible to market women around the world,'' said Flores, who says few Web sites are actually so bold as to advertise sex slaves.
In Brazil, prostitutes have become prime targets for global sex syndicates, who lure them to foreign countries and then enslave them, said Carla Dolinski, a police investigator who leads anti-trafficking efforts in Rio. An estimated 75,000 Brazilian women work in Europe as prostitutes, many against their will. Dolinski said police recently received a complaint about a widely circulated e-mail trying to recruit Brazilian prostitutes for work in Spain. And there are well-documented cases of ordinary women being tricked into traveling abroad for work, only to be forced into prostitution.
One of them is 20-year-old Beatriz, an ebony-skinned woman with a cover-girl smile. She left her home on the rough outskirts of Rio de Janeiro for the tourist island of Lanzarote, near the Canary Islands. She said she thought she would be part of a Brazilian dance troupe, but she ended up enslaved in Lanzarote, forced to perform sex acts for Spaniards and other tourists -- without pay -- until she managed to escape.
Another Brazilian woman, who asked to be called Ana, said she was lured to Tel Aviv, Israel, two years ago believing she'd be a high-paid waitress. After she arrived, her documents were confiscated and she was told the icy truth: She was now an unpaid prostitute at the service of the Russian mob. She was put to work the very afternoon she arrived. Like Beatriz, she escaped. Her captors murdered one of her friends for not cooperating.
Beatriz and Ana did not find out about their ``jobs'' through high-tech means, but Dolinksi fears that e-mail and Internet sites will more easily entice other desperate women to travel across the globe for promises of a better life, only to suffer similar fates.
``If a foreigner has a site offering $1,000 a month, the girls will go. It is difficult to investigate when it comes from outside of Brazil,'' Dolinski said.
Authorities are still trying to document the myriad ways the Internet is involved in sex trafficking, but sites that are little more than marketing tools for traffickers are proliferating.
One Web site, for example, features private chat rooms for men who may or may not be aware of the misery they are supporting. They exchange tips on brothels around the world where authorities say many women are virtual slaves.
``Almost all the girls have babies, but still, they are good!!! If you like the young, but legal, baby-faced Lolitas, you cannot get it any cheaper,'' says one man's posting on the site about his trip to Brazil.
Another site notes that sex with Brazilian minors is illegal. Even so, it suggests that if ``you are under 50 and white, or even better, blond and blue-eyed, try flirting with any girl from 16 years up, in the street, near high schools.''
The site notes that the Brazilian government has cracked down on child prostitution, but it appears to justify sex with minors by noting ``they will either return home and get abused or roam the street penniless eating at garbage dumps.''
The Internet appears to offer countless ways to deceive and promote illegal activities. Flores points out that many sites offer to help find a marriage partner. But, he adds: ``If you go to those sites, the vast majority of them offer nude pictures of these women. The reality is that after you have been on the site for a few minutes, what you really are talking about is buying and selling of women,'' which is against the law.
A Miami-based Internet site claims to be a matchmaking service, by offering ``mail-order brides'' and charging fees to introduce men to foreign women.
The site, which features photos of women along with information about them, tells cybersurfers not to let worries about their own looks or a lack of money deter them from trying to contact women on the sites.
``If you make only $800 a month you will still be making many times more than the average Cuban worker,'' the site says.
A site from Rugby, N.D., called Your Destiny advertises a buyers' market since, it says, there ``is an overabundance of young single women in Russia.''
Authorities are worried about these subtler approaches. Some are legitimate matchmaking services, but experts think many are a ruse for trafficking women into the United States.
The Justice Department estimates that 50,000 to 100,000 women and children have been trafficked into the United States in the past few years. Lawmakers are considering legislation to grant special visas to women tricked into slavery who are willing to testify against their captors.
There are no statistics on how the Internet's mail-order bride-sites have abetted trafficking, but experts believe they have and that traffickers will become even more sophisticated in using the Internet to reap profits from their trade.
At the same time, anti-trafficking activists in Brazil and around the world say they will try to fight back with the very same tool -- tapping the Internet to warn women about sex slavery.
Cristina Leonardo, a human rights attorney in Brazil, is trying to set up a Web site dedicated to providing information about known traffickers. Her ``Project Against the Trafficking of Humans'' would create a national and international telephone center where people provide tips to authorities.
Through her Brazilian Defense Center, Leonardo also is trying to create online training programs, so police and the courts can share information around the world to better protect women from this modern-day scourge.
From no1special at turbomail.tv Wed Jan 3 22:44:32 2001
From: no1special at turbomail.tv (no1special)
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 00:44:32 -0600
Subject: Interesting Article (FWD)
Message-ID: <200101040652.AAA19993@einstein.ssz.com>
Why to Secure Your Computer Network
-----------------------------------
There has been a great deal of talk about network security over
the past several years. Almost all of this talk has been about the
"how" aspect of network security - which is to say the practical
steps required to prevent malicious individuals from damaging the
structure and function of computer networks. Comparatively little has
been said about the "why" aspect of computer security. There has been
comparatively little discussion of what, in particular, makes our
networks worth protecting and why we want to maintain the large,
complex, and vulnerable network that the Internet has become.
In looking into the subject of network infrastructure, security,
and architecture I slowly began to understand what Cliff Stoll (author
of the book Cukoo's Egg) meant when he said the following:
"So long as you think of someone ripping you off as a 'penetrator',
you'll never make any progress. As long as they remained impersonal
and detatched, the NSA people would never realize that this wasn't
just a computer being penetrated, but a community was being
attacked.
...I'd never solve the problem until I got involved; until I
worried about the cancer patients who might be injured by this guy;
until I became angry that this hacker was directly threatening all
of us." (Cliff Stoll -- Cuckoo's Egg p. 279)
From my perspective as both a user and as an administrator of
computer networks, The most powerful ability of computer networks is
their ability to bring people together. The explosive growth in
the Internet, for example can be largely attributed to the desire
for people to communicate inexpensively over long distances.
The "killer app" of the Internet is not, from my perspective, the
World Wide Web, but rather electronic mail. Most of what is being done
on the Web could just have easily been done through other means, but
there is no real replacement for e-mail. Internet e-mail has become,
over a very short span of years, one of the de-facto standard means of
communications both in the business world and in our personal
lives. Every time someone new gets an e-mail account, it is another
reason to use e-mail. The more people have e-mail the more valuable
the network becomes.
I believe that these personal connections are what makes the
Internet and the various intranets valuable. From this perspective
anything that destroys or reduces our ability to communicate makes
these networks less valuable. To state this more clearly, it is my
belief that networks create value by making it possible to quickly and
safely communicate and share information. Anything which increases the
ability of network users to share information quickly, easily, and
safely will increase the usefulness and value of the
network. Conversely, anything which decreases the ability of users to
communicate and share information decreases the network's value. If
this is true, the most valuable resource on a network is each user's
trust in that network's ability to support their need to communicate
and share information safely.
In the long run, while electronic commerce is important, it is
nowhere near as important as the system of trust which holds networks
together. The most important thing to preserve is the willingness of
people to trust each other - the willingness of administrators,
engineers developers and other network users to share information with
each other. If you accept this as true, it quickly becomes clear that
the the the following five problems pose the most serious threat to
Internet and intranet security:
1) E-mail viruses -- viruses which propogate by electronic mail
make it more difficult for users to work with attached
files. These threats make it more difficult for users to
share their documents and research with other people who they
may not know well. Right now every systems administrator is
telling their users not to open attachments that they are not
completely sure about - this undermines the trust which makes
collaboration possible.
2) Trojan-horse software -- software which has hidden "back
doors" or breaches a computer's security in a malicious way
can have a severe negative effect on the ability of systems
administrators and developers ability to exchange information
related to their work. This in potentially a very grave threat
against the open-source community - which depends very
heavily on the ability of developers to trust each other's
work.
3) Malicious Applets (malware) -- Malware creates distrust
between web page authors and web users. A web user should be
able to judge a website by the value of its content without
having to worry about wether his browser will be attacked by
the author's system. Creating distrust in this arena can have
devestating effects on the usefulness of the Internet.
5) UBE (spam) -- Unsolicited bulk e-mail creates an indirect
threat to the trust which makes e-mail useful. As spam
becomes more common, filters are constructed which block it
more effeciently. Unfortunately, it is impossible to
cunstruct a filter which blocks a high percentage of UBE
without blocking at least some legitimate mail. This will
ultimately have negative consequences on electronic mail
systems.
4) Cracking attacks -- Cracking attacks, especially attacks on
e-mail, web and FTP servers, make it more difficult for
people to attach private networks to the Internet. Every time
the barriers to entry are raised, the value of the Internet as
a whole suffers.
As we enter the 21st century, computer networks are becoming a
vital tool for reaching both business and personal goals. While there
is no question that we need to secure these networks against those who
would abuse them, it is important to do so in a way that protects the
true value of those networks.
Jacques Richer
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From nobody at noisebox.remailer.org Thu Jan 4 02:59:18 2001
From: nobody at noisebox.remailer.org (Anonymous)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 03:59:18 -0700
Subject: http://www.cnn.com/2001/ALLPOLITICS/stories/01/04/bush.freeh.reut/index.html
Message-ID: <5f2a8f67aa4950e568bb903492a5bc20@noisebox.remailer.org>
Bush asks Freeh to stay at FBI, USA Today says
January 4, 2001
Web posted at: 3:21 AM EST (0821 GMT)
WASHINGTON (Reuters) -- The incoming Bush administration has asked FBI Director Louis Freeh to remain on the job, USA Today reported Thursday, citing officials close to the situation.
Freeh has told Federal Bureau of Investigation employees in an internal memo last month that he intends to complete his 10-year term that expires in 2003 and cannot be extended, USA Today said.
Freeh declined to comment Wednesday, as did Bush transition officials, the newspaper said.
Although he is an appointee of President Clinton, Freeh clashed with the president over questions about the transfer of FBI files to the White House.
He also has differed with Attorney General Janet Reno's decision against launching an independent investigation of campaign finance irregularities involving Clinton and Vice President Al Gore.
Copyright 2001 Reuters. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
From hole1001 at pageice.com Thu Jan 4 02:10:53 2001
From: hole1001 at pageice.com (hole1001 at pageice.com)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 05:10:53 -0500
Subject: Mortgage Rates DROP!! Lenders COMPETE for your Business! -navujnepih
Message-ID: <6e7a4r.42y4wh38vkjqj25n@p5cb3i52.localhost>
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From k.brown at ccs.bbk.ac.uk Thu Jan 4 02:29:27 2001
From: k.brown at ccs.bbk.ac.uk (Ken Brown)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 05:29:27 -0500
Subject: More half-baked social planning ideas
References:
Message-ID: <3A545075.3432B154@ccs.bbk.ac.uk>
I read. I even read American stuff sometimes. In the last week I've
read all or some of 5 books about architecture & housing. Two of them
were American. But, not being American I still have no real idea what
the expected answer to
> furnace:basement::stove:______
is.
I *guess* "kitchen" because in the UK "stove" is an old-fashioned name
for a cooking device, stuff we used before the invention of gas and
electric cookers (in fact, before the invention of the cast-iron
range). But for us a "furnace" is an extremely large thing that you get
steel out of... not something anyone would find in a basement. Over
here you put teenagers or washing machines or junk in your basement, not
furnaces. Actually, in London, they are almost always converted into
flats & rented out.
Anyway, surely basements are urban vs. rural? A way of getting more room
in a restricted space. Do people build them out in the country?
Ken the Ethnocentric.
dmolnar wrote:
>
> On Mon, 25 Dec 2000, David Honig wrote:
>
> > >> but soon realized it was likely. Tens of millions of Californians
> > >> have *no idea* of the many-armed oil-fed beast that lives in basements..
> > >
> > >They've never read a story which mentions such a thing?
> > >
> > >-David
> >
> > "Read" ???
>
> Oh, right.
> Maybe the SAT is biased towards people who read. Since I read, that
> doesn't seem so bad to me.
>
> -David (exulting in the logic of ... oh, wait)
From steve at tightrope.demon.co.uk Thu Jan 4 03:46:35 2001
From: steve at tightrope.demon.co.uk (Steve Mynott)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 06:46:35 -0500
Subject: More half-baked social planning ideas
In-Reply-To: Ken Brown's message of "Thu, 4 Jan 2001 05:29:27 -0500"
References: <3A545075.3432B154@ccs.bbk.ac.uk>
Message-ID:
Ken Brown writes:
> were American. But, not being American I still have no real idea what
> the expected answer to
>
> > furnace:basement::stove:______
I had no idea either.
> I *guess* "kitchen" because in the UK "stove" is an old-fashioned name
> for a cooking device, stuff we used before the invention of gas and
I don't know if it's _that_ old-fashioned the word "stove" is still in
use for this.
On a tangent a friend claimed Americans didn't have electric kettles
for boiling water.
Can anyone confirm whether this is true?
> electric cookers (in fact, before the invention of the cast-iron
> range). But for us a "furnace" is an extremely large thing that you get
> steel out of... not something anyone would find in a basement. Over
I think "furnace" is "boiler" in English.
--
1024/D9C69DF9 steve mynott steve at tightrope.demon.co.uk
"my watch with a black face .. has the date in a little hole in the face"
From cmgmba at yahoo.com Thu Jan 4 07:32:21 2001
From: cmgmba at yahoo.com (cheryl gilan)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 07:32:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Please remove...
Message-ID: <20010104153221.20042.qmail@web4503.mail.yahoo.com>
Please remove "Shanah Tovah" item which appears after
doing a search of my name Cheryl Gilan.
Thank you for your prompt attention to this matter.
Cheryl Gilan
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!
http://photos.yahoo.com/
From jya at pipeline.com Thu Jan 4 04:34:51 2001
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 07:34:51 -0500
Subject: More half-baked social planning ideas
In-Reply-To:
References:
<3A545075.3432B154@ccs.bbk.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <200101041240.HAA23252@smtp6.mindspring.com>
A furnace makes heat, a boiler makes steam or hot
water. Many small buildings have a boiler that does
all three by combing components in a single unit.
Large buildings have three separate units, and more
for specialized tasks.
In New York City, there is an important distinction between
cellar and basement. Cellars are not habitable while
basements are. The building code definition of a basement
is that at least half its height is above street level, and that
of cellar is that just over half its height is below street
level. Many residential buildings are designed to
take advantage of that distinction. The rule covers
sloping site conditions to average the difference between
front and back.
The basement level is often called the Ground Floor to
take away any stigma associated with basement.
Much mechanical and electrical equipment is located in
the cellar to maximize habitable space above. Same goes
for the roof.
Terrific expenditures for excavating multi-level cellars are
the norm for high-rise buildings -- even in hard rock as in
Manhattan -- to produce maximum habitable space allowed
under the zoning code, which, in combination with building
health, and environmental codes, regulates bulk, height, light,
air, room sizes, window sizes and a host of requirements
for barely tolerable human habitation -- and legal standards
are ever dropping in squalid, squirming cities for luxury as
well as dirt cheap holes.
We architects are expected to, well, cheat, to maximize what
property owners want at the expense of building inhabitants
and the inccreasingly squeezed and violated public. What
helps us get away with cheating is massive PR by our
professional flacks, sophisticated aesthetic and environmental
theories that claim wretched architecture is beautiful,
drunken orgies with regulatory officials, revolving
door participation in standards committees and holding
public office -- to be sure, as practised by all professions,
in particular those that are solemnly licensed and sworn
to protect the public from people like us.
Occasionally an idiot architect, like this one, tries to go against
the grain, and work dries up instantly and family says dont
be stupid, dont shame us. Then back to doing what church
and family command to be an outstanding citizen/bandit.
Social planning is a useful deception, twinned with the
free market -- the two backed beast.
From mike1 at info-prods.com Wed Jan 3 23:56:32 2001
From: mike1 at info-prods.com (mike1 at info-prods.com)
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 07:56:32 +0000
Subject: natural diet
Message-ID: <3bx65.2yil6o8voy1w32i26@dialup1.info-web-prods.com>
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From Fenton420 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 4 08:21:17 2001
From: Fenton420 at hotmail.com (Fenton420 at hotmail.com)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 08:21:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Get Paid Just to Get E-Mail!
Message-ID: <200101041621.IAA08376@cyberpass.net>
Dear cypherpunks ,
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From hseaver at harmon.arrowhead.lib.mn.us Thu Jan 4 05:48:00 2001
From: hseaver at harmon.arrowhead.lib.mn.us (Harmon Seaver)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 08:48:00 -0500
Subject: More half-baked social planning ideas
References: <3A545075.3432B154@ccs.bbk.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <3A547EFE.B98796E0@harmon.arrowhead.lib.mn.us>
Steve Mynott wrote:
> Ken Brown writes:
>
> On a tangent a friend claimed Americans didn't have electric kettles
> for boiling water.
>
> Can anyone confirm whether this is true?
>
We have. I do.
>
> > electric cookers (in fact, before the invention of the cast-iron
> > range). But for us a "furnace" is an extremely large thing that you get
> > steel out of... not something anyone would find in a basement. Over
>
> I think "furnace" is "boiler" in English.
No, those are different forms of central heating units -- a furnace is
forced air, boiler is, uh, hot water or steam.
Stove is what you cook on -- could also be range, either gas or electric. Or
oil, for that matter, although you don't find those much anymore except as
antiques. I prefer the woodfired cookstove, which we used for many years and are
looking for a new one. Stove is also a part of a car, the sheetmetal piece that
mounts on the exhaust manifold and feeds hot air thru a tube to the airclearner
to prevent carburator icing.
In differnt areas of the US we have different tems for the thing get water
out of at the sink. In the south it's often called spigot, and in the north
faucet. Also tap. What do you Brits call that?
From mmotyka at lsil.com Thu Jan 4 10:26:50 2001
From: mmotyka at lsil.com (mmotyka at lsil.com)
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 10:26:50 -0800
Subject: US Attorney General nominee is pro-privacy
Message-ID: <3A54C06A.FCEFE311@lsil.com>
That is mildly encouraging but what about the 4th and 5th? Is he going
to take the position that in effect we have a right to encrypt all we
want but when so directed by a court or LE Agency we must surrender
plaintext? I know this crap will be sneaking into multiple crime bills
over the next few years. If it hasn't already.
Mike
From cmckie at ottawa.com Thu Jan 4 10:44:34 2001
From: cmckie at ottawa.com (Craig McKie)
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 10:44:34 -0800
Subject: Anglo-American communications studies
In-Reply-To:
References:
Message-ID:
Americans do not have electric kettles within the intended British
meaning. They tend not to know what you are talking about. The product
is absent from the shelves at Target and Walmart.
Most Canadian households would have electric kettles where gas cooking
is not involved. Something about tea-making perhaps?
On Thu, 4 Jan 2001 12:10:14 -0500, you wrote:
>
>
>On Thu, 4 Jan 2001, Steve Mynott wrote:
>
>>Ken Brown writes:
>>
>>On a tangent a friend claimed Americans didn't have electric kettles
>>for boiling water.
>>
>>Can anyone confirm whether this is true?
>
>
>sigh. Americans tend not to call something a "kettle" unless it's
>large, at least a 6-qt capacity. We don't have non-specialized
>electric cooking vessels in that size on the market.
>
>However, we have electric coffeepots that size and larger, and
>electric "hotpots" of a smaller size (around 2qt) suitable for
>heating water to brew tea, and electric "rice cookers" of
>approx. 3-4qt capacity that are entirely suitable for boiling
>water if you don't want to cook rice.
>
>
>I'd be inclined to think that this is just a terminology issue.
>
>>I think "furnace" is "boiler" in English.
>
>Hm. Not all furnaces are boilers. Basically we use the word
>"furnace" here to mean the heating unit for a house. One kind
>of furnace is a boiler, which heats liquid that then gets
>circulated through radiators.
>
>Other types of furnaces are electrical, or fired by gas, coal,
>oil, or wood. Sometimes they heat a gigantic rock that then
>radiates heat for days (this arrangement is popular in arid
>northern and northwestern states). More often they heat air,
>channeled through a heat-exchanger by a fan and then circulated
>directly through the rest of the house via ductwork.
>
>Actual boiler-type furnaces are quite rare in the US, and
>I haven't seen a coal-fired furnace since I was a child.
>They're still out there, though; although they are now illegal
>for pollution reasons here in CA, there are places in the
>midwest where once in a while you still find them in use.
>
>
> Bear
>
>
>
>
From bear at sonic.net Thu Jan 4 09:10:14 2001
From: bear at sonic.net (Ray Dillinger)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 12:10:14 -0500
Subject: Anglo-American communications studies
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:
On Thu, 4 Jan 2001, Steve Mynott wrote:
>Ken Brown writes:
>
>On a tangent a friend claimed Americans didn't have electric kettles
>for boiling water.
>
>Can anyone confirm whether this is true?
sigh. Americans tend not to call something a "kettle" unless it's
large, at least a 6-qt capacity. We don't have non-specialized
electric cooking vessels in that size on the market.
However, we have electric coffeepots that size and larger, and
electric "hotpots" of a smaller size (around 2qt) suitable for
heating water to brew tea, and electric "rice cookers" of
approx. 3-4qt capacity that are entirely suitable for boiling
water if you don't want to cook rice.
I'd be inclined to think that this is just a terminology issue.
>I think "furnace" is "boiler" in English.
Hm. Not all furnaces are boilers. Basically we use the word
"furnace" here to mean the heating unit for a house. One kind
of furnace is a boiler, which heats liquid that then gets
circulated through radiators.
Other types of furnaces are electrical, or fired by gas, coal,
oil, or wood. Sometimes they heat a gigantic rock that then
radiates heat for days (this arrangement is popular in arid
northern and northwestern states). More often they heat air,
channeled through a heat-exchanger by a fan and then circulated
directly through the rest of the house via ductwork.
Actual boiler-type furnaces are quite rare in the US, and
I haven't seen a coal-fired furnace since I was a child.
They're still out there, though; although they are now illegal
for pollution reasons here in CA, there are places in the
midwest where once in a while you still find them in use.
Bear
From bill.stewart at pobox.com Thu Jan 4 12:16:25 2001
From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart)
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 12:16:25 -0800
Subject: Escaping the Internet Archives - Re: Please remove...
In-Reply-To: <20010104153221.20042.qmail@web4503.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010104121625.00a362c0@idiom.com>
At 07:32 AM 1/4/01 -0800, cheryl gilan wrote:
>Subject: Please remove...
>Please remove "Shanah Tovah" item which appears after
>doing a search of my name Cheryl Gilan.
>Thank you for your prompt attention to this matter.
>Cheryl Gilan
Cheryl - Happy New Year 2001! Cypherpunks is a mailing list.
Are you asking us to remove your message from the list archives?
There are multiple archives run by various people around the world -
they're even more decentralized than the mailing list,
plus the list is gatewayed to some Usenet newsgroups,
so there may be Usenet archives as well. The ones that
are easily located by search engines are in Singapore and Germany.
Also, the google.com search engine caches articles it finds -
even if we delete them, they won't disappear.
Your message to the list, and this reply to it,
will be automatically entered in the archives as well,
joining your original message.
Most archivists don't like to change the past, especially
when the things run automatically, but the reason you'd be
in one of the archives is because you sent advertising email
to three of the email addresses used by the cypherpunks list on
September 28, 2000 using your addresses cheryl at socialplus.com
and your_friends at socialplus.com .
SHANAH TOVAH from your friends at JewishMatch.com
(owned and operated by SocialPlus.com).
We are a leading provider of customized, turnkey solutions
that enables your website users to meet each other for the
purposes of companionship, dating and hopefully, marriage.
.... [details on your ASP omitted - they're in some archives.]
Cheryl M. Gilan, Director of Business Development
JewishMatch.com mailto:cheryl at socialplus.com
Tel: (212) 244-7779 Cell: (917) 523-6750
P.S. Please do not hesitate to contact me at the above numbers.
The usual reason people ask to be removed is
so spammers don't find their names on the net.
Given the reason your name appeared on our list,
your request will probably elicit more amusement than sympathy,
but we haven't hesitated to archive your contact information.
Perhaps it was a mistake, or someone gave you bad business advice
on useful ways to increase sales, and you did include your contact
information,
which is pretty unusual for a spammer, but you'll find that
information you've posted to the net never disappears
(unless it's something actually useful that you need badly,
in which case it hasn't disappeared, it's just where *you* can't find it.)
Good, bad, ugly, whatever... you can't escape your writing.
There're flames out in some Usenet archive that I posted in 1982,
back when it was called Netnews and wasn't carried on the Internet.
"C'mon, Joe, you can always change your name"
If information never disappears, how do you keep it from
coming back to haunt you? Best you can do is have a common name -
somebody named Jim Johnson wouldn't have to worry about this.
(Won't work for you. Sounds like your family's Iranian? :-)
The next best you can do is use minimize the amount of contact
information and other unique correlatable data you provide,
and use different email addresses for different things.
So, for instance, Yahoo mail says you live in Orange, NJ -
determining whether that's true shouldn't be hard.
USSearch.com thinks so too, but they just got that from Yahoo.
And your email addresses cmgmba at yahoo.com and cheryl at socialplus.com
were easily linkable by anybody searching on your name
even before this message stuck them together.
By the way,
SocialPlus.com's privacy policy says you collect a _lot_ of information,
which isn't surprising for a dating meta-service, and says that it's
only disclosed under a variety of conditions, including the
gaping big hole of telling advertisers when users view their ads
(on viewing, not just on clickthrough.) It does recommend using your
pseudonymous screen names, and warns that
"All postings to the Public Areas become public and,
therefore, care should be taken in disclosing personal information.
Postings made in the Public Areas may not be changed or deleted
by Visitors or Subscribers."
So please understand that your publicly disclosed information is public.
But, hey, you've come to the right place, and have we got a deal for you!
The Cypherpunks mailing list deals with electronic privacy issues.
You can't fix the past, but there are a variety of privacy-protection
tools or businesses that people on the list have created that
can help you keep your future information private or less linkable.
http://www.anonymizer.com provides anonymous web surfing -
and it combines well with free email and web hosting offers.
You can use it for free, or pay for better performance and more features.
There's a great list of similar tools at
http://www.sethf.com/anticensorware/smartfilter/greatestevils.php
(it's there because all the censorware products block web anonymizers.
www.ZeroKnowledge.com 's Freedom project provides a variety of services,
including multiple email and web identities and cookie management for a
small fee,
with cryptographic protection.
David Brin's "The Transparent Society" provides some discussion on how
traditional views of privacy have been made obsolete by technology -
get used to it, and make sure there are webcams pointed at
government officials so they behave themselves, since they'll be
pointing webcams at you. Paperback ISBN 0738201448
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0738201448/o/qid=978637792/sr=8-1/ref
=aps_sr_b_1_1/103-5076663-8890269
Thanks!
Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639
From sunder at sunder.net Thu Jan 4 09:52:25 2001
From: sunder at sunder.net (sunder)
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 12:52:25 -0500
Subject: US Attorney General nominee is pro-privacy
Message-ID: <3A54B859.EFFBCE4A@sunder.net>
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/15795.html
US Attorney General nominee is pro-privacy
By: Kevin Poulsen
Posted: 04/01/2001 at 01:35 GMT
To civil liberty groups, President-elect George W. Bush's pick for US attorney general is an ultra-right wing Christian conservative
who fought abortion and gun control, and blocked the appointment of a black Missouri judge to the federal bench. But veteran cyber
libertarians know John Ashcroft as something else: a once-fierce ally in the successful battle to unshackle encryption technology.
As a US senator, Ashcroft was one of a handful of lawmakers who fought to tear down encryption export regulations -- the federal
rules that kept strong security and privacy-protecting technology out of mainstream commercial products. Ashcroft's views put him in
direct opposition to FBI director Louis Freeh, who argued for years that unrestricted encryption would allow criminals to thwart
lawful government surveillance.
--
----------------------Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos---------------------------
+ ^ + :Surveillance cameras|Passwords are like underwear. You don't /|\
\|/ :aren't security. A |share them, you don't hang them on your/\|/\
<--*-->:camera won't stop a |monitor, or under your keyboard, you \/|\/
/|\ :masked killer, but |don't email them, or put them on a web \|/
+ v + :will violate privacy|site, and you must change them very often.
--------_sunder_ at _sunder_._net_------- http://www.sunder.net ------------
From sunder at sunder.net Thu Jan 4 09:54:19 2001
From: sunder at sunder.net (sunder)
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 12:54:19 -0500
Subject: NSA runs best fab in world
Message-ID: <3A54B8CB.3B880BDA@sunder.net>
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/3/15779.html
NSA runs best fab in world
By: Mike Magee
Posted: 03/01/2001 at 13:03 GMT
You might think that AMD's Dresden fab is state-of-the-art technology. You might also suspect that Intel and IBM have some pretty
nifty technology too, lurking in their clean rooms and in their labs.
And you might be right as far as the commercial world goes. But there's a fab, owned by the US government, and run by the National
Security Agency (NSA), which is supposed to knock them into a cocked hat.
--
----------------------Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos---------------------------
+ ^ + :Surveillance cameras|Passwords are like underwear. You don't /|\
\|/ :aren't security. A |share them, you don't hang them on your/\|/\
<--*-->:camera won't stop a |monitor, or under your keyboard, you \/|\/
/|\ :masked killer, but |don't email them, or put them on a web \|/
+ v + :will violate privacy|site, and you must change them very often.
--------_sunder_ at _sunder_._net_------- http://www.sunder.net ------------
From ptrei at rsasecurity.com Thu Jan 4 10:08:04 2001
From: ptrei at rsasecurity.com (Trei, Peter)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 13:08:04 -0500
Subject: Anglo-American communications studies
Message-ID:
Central heating did not develop until well after
the US and Britain split. There was little
technology transfer, so it's not too suprising that
the terminology is different.
When I moved to Britain in the late 60's, central
heating was still rare enough that it was noted in
real estate listings. The Brits and other Europeans
developed some rather odd devices to retrofit older
houses....
1. The Geyser (alt pro: geezer). A box attached to
the wall in or near a shower, which provided instant
hot water. Some were gas powered (in which case
a balanced flue was fitted through a hole in the wall
to the outside). Some were electric. Having several
hundred watts of electricity in intimate contact with
the water and metal piping of the shower was rather
nervous making (saw many still in use in Scotland
this summer).
2. The 'storage heater'. The CEGB (central electricity
generating board) rates were far lower at night
than during the day or evening. A storage heater
was a metal box, typically 4' wide, 2.5 ft high,
and about a foot deep, filled with electric elements
and firebrick. During the night, the bricks would be
heated electrically. By morning the box was a
serious burn hazard, and radiating heat for the rest
of the day as it slowly cooled. At my boarding
school, we used to toss matches on the top of one
and make bets as to which would be the first to light.
Peter Trei
From mmotyka at lsil.com Thu Jan 4 10:40:11 2001
From: mmotyka at lsil.com (mmotyka at lsil.com)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 13:40:11 -0500
Subject: Electric Kettles
Message-ID: <3A54C465.B2C3B809@lsil.com>
Great Topic!
Steve Mynott wrote:
> Ken Brown writes:
>
> On a tangent a friend claimed Americans didn't have electric kettles
> for boiling water.
>
> Can anyone confirm whether this is true?
>
I have never seen an electric kettle for boiling water for tea.
Why boil water for tea on a stove or in an electric "kettle" when you
can put a mug of water in the microwave and have it on the verge of
boiling in 60 seconds? Probably uses less energy too.
Tea you can pick in your back yard.
Mike
From alan at clueserver.org Thu Jan 4 10:55:44 2001
From: alan at clueserver.org (Alan Olsen)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 13:55:44 -0500
Subject: Electric Kettles
In-Reply-To: <3A54C465.B2C3B809@lsil.com>
Message-ID:
On Thu, 4 Jan 2001 mmotyka at lsil.com wrote:
> Great Topic!
>
> Steve Mynott wrote:
>
> > Ken Brown writes:
> >
> > On a tangent a friend claimed Americans didn't have electric kettles
> > for boiling water.
> >
> > Can anyone confirm whether this is true?
> >
> I have never seen an electric kettle for boiling water for tea.
It is false. I have an electric kettle for boiling water. It gets used for
tea fairly often. (Or it did, until I bought a new tea kettle.)
Why some people believe these urban myths...
alan at ctrl-alt-del.com | Note to AOL users: for a quick shortcut to reply
Alan Olsen | to my mail, just hit the ctrl, alt and del keys.
"In the future, everything will have its 15 minutes of blame."
From gbnewby at ils.unc.edu Thu Jan 4 11:06:54 2001
From: gbnewby at ils.unc.edu (Greg Newby)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 14:06:54 -0500
Subject: Electric Kettles
In-Reply-To: <3A54C465.B2C3B809@lsil.com>; from mmotyka@lsil.com on Thu, Jan 04, 2001 at 01:40:11PM -0500
References: <3A54C465.B2C3B809@lsil.com>
Message-ID: <20010104140630.C29095@ils.unc.edu>
Obligatory cypher tie-in: Remember the Lava Lamp used to create
random numbers? Bubbles in a boiling liquid might also be suitable.
Electric kettles are common in the UK and Canada. Black and Decker
makes a model (in 1/2 quart and 1-1/2 quart sizes) available in
some department stores, kitchen stores and catalog stores in the
US.
Electric kettles will boil several cups of water faster than a
microwave. For a smaller amount, it's a toss-up (depending on the
power of your microwave). If you want to make a full pot of tea,
an electric kettle is faster and more convenient than a stovetop
or microwave solution.
Energy consumption is favorable or better than a stovetop as very
little heat goes other than to heat water (versus a stove, where
heat disapates around and under the pot).
Like an automatic drip coffee maker, it's wise to periodically
clean the inside of the kettle with a vinegar solution. This
eliminates build-up from minerals in the water.
Here endeth the lesson.
-- Greg
On Thu, Jan 04, 2001 at 01:40:11PM -0500, mmotyka at lsil.com wrote:
> Steve Mynott wrote:
>
> > Ken Brown writes:
> >
> > On a tangent a friend claimed Americans didn't have electric kettles
> > for boiling water.
> >
> > Can anyone confirm whether this is true?
> >
> I have never seen an electric kettle for boiling water for tea.
>
> Why boil water for tea on a stove or in an electric "kettle" when you
> can put a mug of water in the microwave and have it on the verge of
> boiling in 60 seconds? Probably uses less energy too.
>
> Tea you can pick in your back yard.
>
> Mike
>
From sunder at sunder.net Thu Jan 4 12:11:57 2001
From: sunder at sunder.net (sunder)
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 15:11:57 -0500
Subject: Electric Kettles
References: <3A54C465.B2C3B809@lsil.com>
Message-ID: <3A54D90D.6ACE6BC3@sunder.net>
mmotyka at lsil.com wrote:
>
> Why boil water for tea on a stove or in an electric "kettle" when you
> can put a mug of water in the microwave and have it on the verge of
> boiling in 60 seconds? Probably uses less energy too.
Bad idea:
http://rabi.phys.virginia.edu/HTW//microwave_ovens.html
"Why does water react in a violent and dangerous way when overheated in a microwave oven? CA
Water doesn't always boil when it is heated above its normal boiling temperature (100 0C or 212 0F). The only thing that is certain
is that above that temperature, a steam bubble that forms inside the body of the liquid will be able to withstand the crushing
effects of atmospheric pressure. If no bubbles form, then boiling will simply remain a possibility, not a reality. Something has to
trigger the formation of steam bubbles, a process known as "nucleation." If there is no nucleation of steam bubbles, there will be
no boiling and therefore no effective limit to how hot the water can become.
Nucleation usually occurs at hot spots during stovetop cooking or at defects in the surfaces of cooking vessels. Glass containers
have few or no such defects. When you cook water in a smooth glass container, using a microwave oven, it is quite possible that
there will be no nucleation on the walls of the container and the water will superheat. This situation becomes even worse if the top
surface of the water is "sealed" by a thin layer of oil or fat so that evaporation can't occur, either. Superheated water is
extremely dangerous and people have been severely injured by such water. All it takes is some trigger to create the first bubble-a
fork or spoon opening up the inner surface of the water or striking the bottom of the container-and an explosion follows. I recently
filmed such explosions in my own microwave (low-quality movie (749KB), medium-quality movie (5.5MB)), or high-quality movie
(16.2MB)). As you'll hear in my flustered remarks after "Experiment 13," I was a bit shaken up by the ferocity of the explosion I
had triggered, despite every expectation that it would occur. After that surprise, you'll notice that I became much more concerned
about yanking my hand out of the oven before the fork reached the water. I recommend against trying this dangerous experiment, but
if you must, be extremely careful and don't superheat more than a few ounces of water. You can easily get burned or worse. For a
reader's story about a burn he received from superheated water in a microwave, touch here."
--
----------------------Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos---------------------------
+ ^ + :Surveillance cameras|Passwords are like underwear. You don't /|\
\|/ :aren't security. A |share them, you don't hang them on your/\|/\
<--*-->:camera won't stop a |monitor, or under your keyboard, you \/|\/
/|\ :masked killer, but |don't email them, or put them on a web \|/
+ v + :will violate privacy|site, and you must change them very often.
--------_sunder_ at _sunder_._net_------- http://www.sunder.net ------------
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Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 15:16:18 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Alianza Estrategica
Message-ID: <20010104211618.17DBF10CD0@ns.luckyscasino.com>
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From slevy at newsweek.com Thu Jan 4 12:40:50 2001
From: slevy at newsweek.com (Levy, Steven)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 15:40:50 -0500
Subject: No subject
Message-ID:
:
Hi, John. Can you do me a favor and spread the word around
that I'll be talking about CRYPTO at the Upper West Side Barnes
and Noble (82nd and Broadway) on TUESDAY (Jan 9) at 7:30 pm?
Hope to see you there!
Steven
-----
Cryptome will provide -- free --- unlimited dinner and liquor
after Steve's talk -- at a local joint not at our penthouse mansion.
RSVP, please, so we can lay in humongous supplies. You
flying in from the Old Country, tea served.
Let me tell you there are serious cryptographers in this
favela and their cheapskate employers and legal suckbloods
who will cut Steve no slack if not celebrated in CRYPTO.
We've read it and know who's missing, transatlanticly,
and who told Steve the real story behind non-public
encryption.
Did you know about the NYC connection of Ellis, Diffie, Gilmore,
Venona, ITT, RCA, the Black Chamber, and, get this,
Sunder's current deep shit cracking operation of everything
transiting the Atlantic by undersea and space -- run from a
hole under Brooklyn? Menwith Hill is nothing if not Potemkin.
Then there's Harry Hawk and Perry Metzger, don't even think
about it, but your laundered money's not safe no matter how
carefully cached a havenco. Numbers they factor, big nums,
really big nums, and sell results to the worst customers on earth.
CRYPTO tells stuff you wouldn't believe.
From hseaver at harmon.arrowhead.lib.mn.us Thu Jan 4 13:50:11 2001
From: hseaver at harmon.arrowhead.lib.mn.us (Harmon Seaver)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 16:50:11 -0500
Subject: Anglo-American communications studies
References:
Message-ID: <3A54EFF2.EC6AED48@harmon.arrowhead.lib.mn.us>
Craig McKie wrote:
>
> Americans do not have electric kettles within the intended British
> meaning. They tend not to know what you are talking about. The product
> is absent from the shelves at Target and Walmart.
>
Really? I bought my electric kettle at Target, although I bought
my son's at a fancy cookware shop called Wire Wisk at the mall. I use
mine for tea, he uses his to boil water for both coffee and tea.
> Most Canadian households would have electric kettles where gas cooking
> is not involved. Something about tea-making perhaps?
>
> O>>I think "furnace" is "boiler" in English.
No, furnace is furnace, boiler is boiler.
> > Bear wrote:
> >Hm. Not all furnaces are boilers. Basically we use the word
> >"furnace" here to mean the heating unit for a house. One kind
> >of furnace is a boiler, which heats liquid that then gets
> >circulated through radiators.
> >
No, that's a mis-use of the word furnace. Furnaces produce hot
forced air heat. Boilers are boilers, either steam or hot water.
> >Other types of furnaces are electrical, or fired by gas, coal,
> >oil, or wood. Sometimes they heat a gigantic rock that then
> >radiates heat for days (this arrangement is popular in arid
> >northern and northwestern states). More often they heat air,
> >channeled through a heat-exchanger by a fan and then circulated
> >directly through the rest of the house via ductwork.
> >
> >Actual boiler-type furnaces are quite rare in the US, and
> >I haven't seen a coal-fired furnace since I was a child.
> >They're still out there, though; although they are now illegal
> >for pollution reasons here in CA, there are places in the
> >midwest where once in a while you still find them in use.
> >
> >
Good grief -- "boiler-type furnaces are quite rare in the US", eh?
You ought to come up north sometimes. Hot water or steam boilers are
extremely common in homes. I wouldn't have anything else -- in fact, a
house with forced air heat wouldn't even be looked at by my wife or I
for potential purchase, they give really lousy,drafty performace which
dries out your skin and shrivels house plants and generally makes you
miserable all Winter. Hydronic heating is the only way to go.
Not only is it better heat, but it also lends itself more readily
to heat storage if you have a combo wood and gas/oil boiler, where you
use a large insulated tank to even out the heat from the higher temp
wood fires. With a wood furnace, the wood burns up, the house gets
overly hot, then the fire goes out and you're cold.
Amazing what passes for cryptic comments these days.
--
Harmon Seaver, MLIS Systems Librarian
Arrowhead Library System Virginia, MN
(218) 741-3840 hseaver at arrowhead.lib.mn.us
http://harmon.arrowhead.lib.mn.us
From kdscskdc at mail.brm.by Thu Jan 4 16:51:31 2001
From: kdscskdc at mail.brm.by (kdscskdc at mail.brm.by)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 16:51:31
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <541.170227.58481@mail.mindspring.com>
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From hseaver at harmon.arrowhead.lib.mn.us Thu Jan 4 13:51:41 2001
From: hseaver at harmon.arrowhead.lib.mn.us (Harmon Seaver)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 16:51:41 -0500
Subject: [Fwd: End-2000 Alert: John Ashcroft, Clemencies, Hemp Regs]
Message-ID: <3A54F057.4631BBFE@harmon.arrowhead.lib.mn.us>
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: End-2000 Alert: John Ashcroft, Clemencies, Hemp Regs
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 13:43:09 -0500
X-Loop: openpgp.net
From: DRCNet
To: drc-natl at drcnet.org
*************************************************************
Drug Reform Coordination Network (DRCNet)
Rapid Response Team
*************************************************************
End-2000 Alert: John Ashcroft, Clemencies, Hemp Regs
-----------------------------------------------------
12/28/00
Dear friend of drug law reform:
As the year winds to an end, with Congress in recess and many
of you on vacation, drug reformers are faced with not one, or
even two, but three urgent action items -- as well as a little
bit of good news. Please take a few moments to call Congress
and the President this week -- it could make all the
difference in the coming year!
URGENT ACTION ITEM #1: John Ashcroft
As you may have read in mainstream news accounts, Sen. John
Ashcroft, who was defeated for reelection in Missouri by the
late Gov. Mel Carnahan, has been nominated by George W. Bush
to be the next US Attorney General. It is vital that his
nomination be opposed. John Ashcroft is one of the most
ideologically extreme drug warriors, and his appointment would
spell trouble for sentencing/prison policies, medical
marijuana, needle exchange, racial profiling, you name it. We
will be publishing much more information about him in
tomorrow's issue of The Week Online with DRCNet, and will be
issuing detailed action alerts, by January 4th when the new
Senate is sworn in, for opposing him on a state-by-state
basis.
In the meantime, please call your two US Senators and ask them
to oppose the controversial John Ashcroft nomination. You can
reach your Senators (or find out who they are) by calling the
Congressional Switchboard at (202) 224-3121. You can also
visit http://www.senate.gov to look up their web sites and
find out their direct numbers in Washington and their local
phone numbers and locations in your state. Make an in-person
visit if you can!
URGENT ACTION ITEM #2: Save Industrial Hemp
Drug warriors at the DEA and ONDCP are trying to ban a whole
range of products made with industrial, non-drug hemp. Their
motivation, ostensibly, is that hemp interferes with drug
testing and creates false positives, causing problems with
federal drug testing programs more complicated. Really, they
are simply committed to a bizarre ideology that considers hemp
a drug, even though you can't get high with it. But in doing
so, they are attempting to administratively rewrite 63 years
of US law that clearly makes an exception for low-THC hemp in
the marijuana laws. Their actions threaten to make a
perfectly legal, fledgling industry and its patrons all
victims of the drug war.
What is happening is that DEA is planning to publish three
"interim rules," which would immediately become effective
while they go through the longer process. First, the DEA
proposes to change its interpretation of existing law to bring
hemp products within the purview of the Controlled Substances
Act; second, to change DEA regulations to agree with the new
interpretation; and third, to exempt traditional hemp products
not designed for human consumption, such as paper and
clothing, from being subject to the Controlled Substances Act.
(See http://www.drcnet.org/wol/165.html#hempembargo for
further information on the looming Hemp Embargo.)
For the rules to become effective, several federal agencies
have to sign off on them. The so-called Dept. of Justice has
already done so, but they still have to go through Customs,
Treasury, Commerce, and the Office of Management and Budget.
Please call your US Representative and your two US Senators;
ask them to oppose the DEA's illegal hemp regulations and to
put pressure on these agencies to reject the regulations.
Again, you can reach all three of them via the Congressional
Switchboard at (202) 224-3121, or look up their DC and local
contact information and locations via http://www.senate.gov
and http://www.house.gov on the web.
URGENT ACTION ITEM #3: Appeal to Clinton for More Clemencies
Less than an hour after the last issue of The Week Online with
DRCNet was published, the news came out that President Bill
Clinton had granted clemencies to two prisoners whose names
are well known to drug reformers: Dorothy Gaines and Kemba
Smith, now home with their families. That's the good news;
read more about it in tomorrow's issue.
The action item is to urge Clinton to release more such
prisoners. There are hundreds of thousands of nonviolent drug
offenders in the nation's penal institutions, tens of
thousands of them in the federal system over which Clinton has
jurisdiction. It is wonderful that Dorothy and Kemba have
gotten to go home, but two is not enough!
In particular, the 350+ "safety-valve" prisoners should be
released. These are people who would likely be free today if
they had been sentenced after the passage of the 1994 Crime
Bill, which allowed judges to reduce the sentences of certain
drug offenders who would otherwise get five or ten year
mandatory minimums. The law was almost passed with
retroactivity, but that fell victim to a frenzied election-
year intersection of drug and gun politics. Many similar
people's sentences have begun and ended since then. There is
no reason not to release them.
Another prisoner who deserves to be released is our friend
Todd McCormick, a medical marijuana patient and activist,
whose health is ill-equipped to handle incarceration. Of
course, there are many prisoners who deserve to be released,
and we will publish more names early next year.
Clinton has until the end of his term, January 20th, to issue
more pardons or clemencies. Please call the White House
Comment Line at (202) 456-1111, get through to a live
operator, thank the President for releasing Dorothy Gaines and
Kemba Smith but ask him to release more prisoners, such as the
350+ safety-valve prisoners and Todd McCormick, before his
term expires.
Stay tuned for more information and alerts on these urgent
action items. Please consider making a donation to DRCNet to
help us provide this service. Contributions from readers like
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From jya at pipeline.com Thu Jan 4 14:38:06 2001
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 17:38:06 -0500
Subject: Steven Levy Talks Crypto
Message-ID: <200101042243.RAA08485@smtp6.mindspring.com>
From ryu123 at jasmine.ocn.ne.jp Thu Jan 4 01:18:20 2001
From: ryu123 at jasmine.ocn.ne.jp (yukio isibasi)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 18:18:20 +0900
Subject: kidsex
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From juicy at melontraffickers.com Thu Jan 4 19:06:01 2001
From: juicy at melontraffickers.com (A. Melon)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 19:06:01 -0800
Subject: No subject
Message-ID:
r ead th an F ortune b egan repo rtedly s hed
Le vins bl essed No-Nam e communic ate th e Pe acefire cg i-bin Standar d
============================== =======================================
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Eas t
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From honig at sprynet.com Thu Jan 4 16:59:07 2001
From: honig at sprynet.com (David Honig)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 19:59:07 -0500
Subject:
In-Reply-To: <000801c07608$f29a7a80$470222d1@default>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010104164737.007b1400@pop.sprynet.com>
At 11:48 PM 1/3/01 -0500, graham compton,Jr. wrote:
> my dog was poisoned by ricin. do you know the antidote? Thanks, GSC Jr
There isn't one. His ribosomes have ceased functioning. No more protein
synthesis. Bummer.
From honig at sprynet.com Thu Jan 4 16:59:08 2001
From: honig at sprynet.com (David Honig)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 19:59:08 -0500
Subject: More half-baked social planning ideas
In-Reply-To: <3A545075.3432B154@ccs.bbk.ac.uk>
References:
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010104165437.007b0e50@pop.sprynet.com>
At 05:29 AM 1/4/01 -0500, Ken Brown wrote:
>I *guess* "kitchen"
sharp lad
>because in the UK "stove" is an old-fashioned name
>for a cooking device, stuff we used before the invention of gas and
>electric cookers (in fact, before the invention of the cast-iron
>range).
Yes, artifact to cook on
But for us a "furnace" is an extremely large thing that you get
>steel out of... not something anyone would find in a basement. Over
>here you put teenagers or washing machines or junk in your basement, not
>furnaces. Actually, in London, they are almost always converted into
>flats & rented out.
So what do you call the artifacts that warm your homes, and where
are they located? Boilers and radiators? Embedded wires? Fireplaces?
Peat fires? Mad-cow-dung fires?
>Anyway, surely basements are urban vs. rural? A way of getting more room
>in a restricted space. Do people build them out in the country?
Tim enlightened us IIRC that they have to do with the frost line... you
want to have your lowest slab below it.
From honig at sprynet.com Thu Jan 4 17:02:39 2001
From: honig at sprynet.com (David Honig)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 20:02:39 -0500
Subject: More half-baked social planning ideas
In-Reply-To:
References:
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010104165755.007b2450@pop.sprynet.com>
At 06:46 AM 1/4/01 -0500, Steve Mynott wrote:
>
>I think "furnace" is "boiler" in English.
>
A modern furnace might burn oil or natural gas and pump hot air into rooms.
An electric -> thermal device might be called a heater.
A boiler implies a working liquid, doesn't it?
Anyway these were American SAT or GRE questions, you furriners have
your own ways :-)
From honig at sprynet.com Thu Jan 4 17:14:41 2001
From: honig at sprynet.com (David Honig)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 20:14:41 -0500
Subject: Anglo-American communications studies
In-Reply-To:
At 01:08 PM 1/4/01 -0500, Trei, Peter wrote:
>2. The 'storage heater'. The CEGB (central electricity
>generating board) rates were far lower at night
>than during the day or evening.
Interestingly, this time-dependency has also forced other technology.
Some years ago, the fuzzy logic people were touting a
(german?) dishwasher which was extra quiet because it used their
tech... which is important because Europeans apparently do their
heavy-wattage usage at night, to save costs. A foreign concept to
Yanks :-)
Your electric meters must cost more. I once lived in UC grad housing
that had no electric bill (free electricity :-) because it would have cost
too much to install individual meters.
From bill.stewart at pobox.com Thu Jan 4 17:17:12 2001
From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 20:17:12 -0500
Subject: OceanStore - anonymous and distributed data storage?
In-Reply-To: <000501c0758f$4c2d3c60$1301a8c0@rms.acroloop.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010104171616.009c9100@idiom.com>
>Jim Choate said:
>>http://slashdot.org (it's a vector to Forbes).
At 09:14 AM 1/3/01 -0500, Roy Silvernail wrote:
>
> No, that's Slashdot.
Yup. It's the URL for the front page, and articles roll off
the bottom as new ones are posted, as Jim knows.
However, the project has some very interesting concepts,
and is worth looking at. Distributed storage,
M-of-N replication, security handled mainly by
storing only plaintext. I haven't looked at their approaches to
traffic analysis or anonymity, if any.
> http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/01/03/0628240
> is the actual Slashdot story.
>
> http://www.forbes.com/futuretech/forbes/2001/0108/242.html
> is a vector to Forbes.
http://oceanstore.cs.berkeley.edu is the project home page.
Publications are at
http://oceanstore.cs.berkeley.edu/publications/index.html
I don't recognize the names of the principals on it -
are there any Cypherpunks who've worked with them?
More of the real documentation is hidden in the
parent project's pages -
http://endeavour.cs.berkeley.edu/presentations.html
has Microsoft Powerpoint presentations with the good stuff.
Thanks!
Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639
From info at giganetstore.com Thu Jan 4 12:55:15 2001
From: info at giganetstore.com (info at giganetstore.com)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 20:55:15 -0000
Subject: Microsoft apresenta: 2001
Message-ID: <099ad1555200411WWWSHOPENS@wwwshopens.giganetstore.com>
Se pretender visualizar estes produtos numa página do seu browser em
formato HTML, basta clicar aqui
.
A Microsoft, líder mundial na produção de Software
, lançou a sua gama de produtos para o ano 2001.
A giganetstore.com , com a entrada no novo
milénio, propõe-lhe associar-se à empresa que melhor personifica tudo o
que as novas tecnologias representam e que está na vanguarda, marcando o
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No caso de já ser um utilizador Microsoft aproveitamos também para lhe
sugerir 3 actualizações (Upgrades) para o seu sistema operativo, o
Windows Millennium (versões portuguesa e inglesa) e o Windows 98 second
edition (versão portuguesa).
Greetings 2001
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Encarta Interactive World Atlas 2001
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opção de receber informação acerca das nossas promoções e novos
serviços.
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From honig at sprynet.com Thu Jan 4 17:59:18 2001
From: honig at sprynet.com (David Honig)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 20:59:18 -0500
Subject: NSA runs best fab in world
In-Reply-To: <3A54B8CB.3B880BDA@sunder.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010104175456.007b3210@pop.sprynet.com>
At 12:50 PM 1/4/01 -0500, sunder wrote:
>http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/3/15779.html
>
>
>NSA runs best fab in world
Commercial fabs are enormously constrained by profitability:
you could build huge chips except the yield drops, because a single
error usually trashes the chip. The NSA doesn't need to worry about
profitability.
The NSA gets to play with expensive (GaAs) high-performance processes
that are only used commercially when necessary.
The NSA could make low volumes of chips using E-beam tech which is not
commercially used (because each chip has to be carved individually instead
of printed en masse). This would let them make features *much much* finer
than
the very hard UV of the optolitho future. This means faster, denser chips.
And they get to do long-term R&D into far out architectures, processes,
materials, etc.
Sounds like a fun job, but no stock options, among other problems :-)
From dmolnar at hcs.harvard.edu Thu Jan 4 18:14:22 2001
From: dmolnar at hcs.harvard.edu (dmolnar)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 21:14:22 -0500
Subject: OceanStore - anonymous and distributed data storage?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010104171616.009c9100@idiom.com>
Message-ID:
On Thu, 4 Jan 2001, Bill Stewart wrote:
> More of the real documentation is hidden in the
> parent project's pages -
> http://endeavour.cs.berkeley.edu/presentations.html
> has Microsoft Powerpoint presentations with the good stuff.
The list of Project People only has one person on "cryptography" - Steve
Weiss. His paper on security issues for a file system on top of OceanStore
can be found at
http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~sweis/cs261.ps
From nobody at dizum.com Thu Jan 4 12:30:18 2001
From: nobody at dizum.com (Nomen Nescio)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 21:30:18 +0100 (CET)
Subject: Spooky Post Office
Message-ID:
I've recently moved, many, many miles from my old home, but within the same state. I did not however inform the post office of my new address, hoping to ditch the 2-3 lbs a week of junk mail and crap.
I did inform most of the important services/places of the address change (credit card co's, bills, etc.)
One magazine, I did forget to inform. The mag in question is the NRA's America's First Freedom, which spooks me even more...
Among several other mails bearing my NEW address, last night, this magazine arrived at my NEW address, however it bore the OLD address.
So somehow the post office was able to redirect the mail to my new address without the label on this magazine stating the new address!
Again, if you move and inform the post office, your old-addressed mail arrives at your door with a yellow sticker with the new address. THIS WAS NOT the case here!!!
I must say, I'm quite spooked by this!
I have also seen this happen before with snail-mail spam where the address was mangled (wrong street, or wrong number, but same zip code) so I figured that the post office figured it out and got it to me since it was the same particular branch (same zip). But this is in a totally different zip code, about 50 miles away from my old residence.
How the fuck did they do this? It's certainly means that addresses are snarfed and kept in a database, but further more, how is the post office delivery guy able to figure out which house to send it to without the explicit address on it?
It's enough to make one very paranoid.
[This was not an old issue of the 1st Freedom. It was the January 2001 issue and I hadn't received it, so it's not a question of it falling off the moving truck and having some kind soul put it in my mail box. It was recently mailed just after I moved!]
I've had another (possibly unrelated) strange incident occur at this location. Shortly after moving in, I drove out to meet a friend for dinner. As I left the house, I noticed a rental van pull in and make a u-turn so he was parked exactly outside my house. Around this area, there are ample garages and driveways, so it's very unlikely to see anyone parked on the street.
As soon as I pulled out of the drive way, the van followed for a while. Noticing this, I pulled off to the right, as if I was going to visit another house. The van was behind me and hesitated for about 10 seconds behind me, then drove off. He pulled over about a block infront of me. As I took off and passed him, I saw in my rear view mirror that he was shining a flashlight out of the right side - aiming it at the house which he now pulled infront of. As I passed him again, he followed again for a bit, and then made a turn.
This guy was being way too obvious, so it's not a Fed or a spook (unless they want to be obvious.)
I took this as a possible theif and beefed up house security... but this along with the mail incident is just bizzarre...
Any ideas? (No, I'm not smoking crack or wearing tin foil hats.)
From ravage at ssz.com Thu Jan 4 19:35:03 2001
From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 21:35:03 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [psychohistory] (fwd)
Message-ID:
____________________________________________________________________
Before a larger group can see the virtue of an idea, a
smaller group must first understand it.
"Stranger Suns"
George Zebrowski
The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate
Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com
www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087
-====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
--------------------------------------------------------------------
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 03:06:26 +0200
From: George Pappas
Reply-To: psychohistory at egroups.com
To: psychohistory at egroups.com
Subject: [psychohistory]
Here is a mail I received and I think will interest the group :
STOCK MARKET: FOLLOW THE LEADER
To make money in the stock market, you have to understand risk.
Physicists have been using statistical physics methods to analyze
markets in order to better understand market risks, such as the
probability that a large shift in market value will occur during a
year-long interval. Real markets have a higher probability of
experiencing large changes than conventional "pure chance" would
predict, and econophysicists have suggested many schemes to explain
this fact. The latest idea, reported in the 25 December PRL, points
to the "herding behavior" for which traders are famous. The authors
describe a simple computer model where information networks grow
randomly until entire "clusters" of traders act on the news and then
wait for the next "rumor mill" to grow. The model predicts price
fluctuations similar to those of real markets.
(V. M. Egu‘luz and M. G. Zimmermann, Phys. Rev. Lett. 85, 5659.
COMPLETE Focus story at http://focus.aps.org/v6/st28.html
Link to the paper: http://publish.aps.org/abstract/PRL/v85/p5659/)
Attempts like that one could create a good basis for the development of a theory of psychohistory.
Vagelford
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From ravage at ssz.com Thu Jan 4 21:13:04 2001
From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 23:13:04 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Physical Meet: Austin, Tx. Tue. Jan. 9
Message-ID:
Time: Jan 9, 2001
Second Tuesday of each month
7:00 - 9:00 pm
Location: Central Market HEB Cafe
38th and N. Lamar
Weather permitting we meet in the un-covered tables.
If it's inclimate but not overly cold we meet in the
outside covered section. Otherwise look for us inside
the building proper.
Identification: Look for the group with the "Applied Cryptography"
book. It will have a red cover and is about 2 in. thick.
Contact Info: http://einstein.ssz.com
____________________________________________________________________
The future is downloading. Can you hear the impact?
O[rphan] D[rift>]
Cyber Positive
The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate
Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com
www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087
-====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
--------------------------------------------------------------------
>From owner-hell-outgoing at ssz.com Sun Jan 23 09:37:10 2000
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Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 09:36:20 -0600 (CST)
From: Jim Choate
To: The Club Inferno
Subject: Inferno: Austin Cypherpunks Physical Meet - Correction
Message-ID:
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Status: RO
X-Status:
Time: Jan. 29, 2000
Last Saturday of each month
7:00 - 9:00 pm (or later)
Location: Central Market HEB Cafe
38th and N. Lamar
Weather permitting we meet in the un-covered tables.
If it's inclimate but not overly cold we meet in the
outside covered section. Otherwise look for us inside
the building proper.
Identification: Look for the group with the "Applied Cryptography"
book. It will have a red cover and is about 2 in. thick.
Contact Info: The group does not support a local mailing list
right now. Other than the physical meetings, announced
on cypherpunks at ssz.com, there are currently no
additional resources. If you have a question please join
the CDR and post your question (short and simple please).
One of us will respond appropriately.
From anmetet at mixmaster.shinn.net Thu Jan 4 21:57:10 2001
From: anmetet at mixmaster.shinn.net (An Metet)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 00:57:10 -0500
Subject: Clinton Creates Post to Protect Nation's Secrets
Message-ID:
By JAMES RISEN
ASHINGTON, Jan. 4 � President Clinton has issued an order reorganizing the government's counterintelligence efforts, creating a new czar with a broad mandate to identify potential security threats and vulnerabilities, administration officials said today.
The directive, signed in the waning days of Mr. Clinton's administration, creates a National Counterintelligence Executive charged with bringing a forward-looking, post-cold-war mentality to counterintelligence. Officials say the post is designed as the counterintelligence equivalent to the nation's drug czar.
The executive's central task will be to try to determine which secrets held by the government or the private sector are so valuable that they need to be protected from the nation's adversaries. The czar will also try to assess which secrets are of special interest to other nations, and then bring together the F.B.I., C.I.A. and other agencies to determine whether those countries are making efforts to obtain them.
A spokesman for the Bush transition team referred all questions about the plan to the White House and declined to say whether transition officials had been consulted. Once in office, Mr. Bush could decide to change the plan without Congressional approval.
But the reorganization and the newly created post have the strong backing of F.B.I. Director Louis J. Freeh, who is staying in his post into the Bush administration, and Central Intelligence Director George J. Tenet, whose tenure also may overlap.
Administration officials and others familiar with the plan say that the czar will not be in charge of managing individual spy cases and that the Federal Bureau of Investigation will retain its lead role in counterespionage investigations. The C.I.A. will also retain its own counterintelligence center, which conducts investigations within the agency.
But officials said that the new office of the counterintelligence executive would replace the existing National Counterintelligence Center, which was created after the 1994 arrest of Aldrich Ames, the C.I.A. officer who pleaded guilty to spying for Moscow for nine years.
On paper, the existing agency also had a broad mandate to coordinate government efforts to identify counterintelligence threats, but several officials said that it had failed to live up to that role. Some critics in the government say that the counterintelligence center never had the stature or influence to command cooperation between government agencies.
The Clinton administration may name a counterintelligence czar before the president leaves office, officials said today. Although it unclear whether the administration had consulted the transition team, Senator Richard C. Shelby of Alabama, the leading Republican on the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, has been generally supportive of the reorganization effort, a Shelby aide said.
The counterintelligence overhaul comes in the wake of the furor over the government's handling of the case of Wen Ho Lee, the scientist fired from his job at Los Alamos National Laboratory and charged with mishandling classified information. Although he pleaded guilty to one count related to downloading and copying nuclear data from Los Alamos, other charges were dropped. Officials say that Mr. Freeh advocated the reorganization in response to the flaws in the way that case was handled.
"This should solve a lot of the shortcomings we have in the present environment," said one senior law enforcement official.
Officials say that the key to the reorganization will be that the leading counterintelligence official in the government would no longer be simply responding to an investigation of an individual spy case, but would rather be focused on broad efforts to determine what secrets might be most tantalizing to other countries. Those secrets could be at the Pentagon or at a high-tech corporation, and the czar will be able to go to the F.B.I., C.I.A. and other agencies and begin to develop plans to make sure those secrets are secure before any spies have gotten to them.
The czar's job will be to "identify the universe of stuff that it would be unthinkable if we lost," one official said.
"This job is to figure out what must be protected. The person in this job, I would think, would spend the first year going around to everybody in the government and business asking what people believe we absolutely have to protect, and then coming up with a judgment about what really are the nation's crown jewels, as opposed to just costume jewelry. Part of the disconnect we have today in the government is that we don't even know what it is that it's unthinkable for us to lose as a nation."
The reorganization plan has support among intelligence policy experts on Capitol Hill, many of whom say the government is usually on the defensive, simply reacting to the latest spy case. The government has "been spending an inordinate amount of time looking in the rear view mirror," said Senator Bob Graham, a Florida Democrat and member of the Senate intelligence committee who has been pushing for a counterintelligence reorganization. As a result, "we didn't look to see what was coming at us in the future."
Several officials acknowledged that it was still too early to determine whether the czar will have the clout to manage such a sweeping change in the way counterintelligence is managed. That clout will be largely determined by the executive's relations with his office's four- member board, composed of the F.B.I. director, the deputy director of Central Intelligence, the deputy secretary of defense, and a representative of the Attorney General. The czar will also report directly to the deputies committee at the National Security Council and will have access to all secrets related to counterintelligence cases, officials said.
The power of the czar "is going to depend on who they put in the job," said one Republican congressional aide.
From petro at bounty.org Fri Jan 5 02:16:36 2001
From: petro at bounty.org (petro)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 02:16:36 -0800
Subject: Anglo-American communications studies
In-Reply-To:
References:
Message-ID:
>
>Actual boiler-type furnaces are quite rare in the US, and
No they aren't. Out of 5 apartments I lived in in Chicago, 4
of them had steam heat. So did the apartments of most of my friends.
My grandmother's house in Saint Louis has/had a boiler and steam heat.
--
A quote from Petro's Archives:
**********************************************
"As someone who has worked both in private industry and in academia,
whenever I hear about academics wanting to teach ethics to people in
business, I want to puke."--Thomas Sowell.
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From: minarica at excite.com (minarica at excite.com)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 06:47:14
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Message-ID: <200101051245.EAA16012@cyberpass.net>
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From bill.stewart at pobox.com Fri Jan 5 09:10:14 2001
From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart)
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 09:10:14 -0800
Subject: Announcing Cypherpunks-India
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010105091014.007975a0@idiom.com>
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From gomes at navigo.com Fri Jan 5 07:35:50 2001
From: gomes at navigo.com (Carlos Macedo Gomes)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 10:35:50 -0500
Subject: Know Cisco, know toad.com
Message-ID: <001b01c0772d$418b0f40$cf6525a9@cgomesw2k>
I found it a bit interesting that toad.com was used as an example source for
network probes detected by a network based IDS:
http://www.knowcisco.com/content/0735708681/ch01s02.shtml
ymmv,
C.G.
--
gomes at navigo.com
Carlos Macedo Gomes
_sic itur ad astra_
1;
From tcmay at got.net Fri Jan 5 10:45:22 2001
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 10:45:22 -0800
Subject: NSA runs best fab in world
In-Reply-To: <3A54B8CB.3B880BDA@sunder.net>
References: <3A54B8CB.3B880BDA@sunder.net>
Message-ID:
At 12:54 PM -0500 1/4/01, sunder wrote:
>http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/3/15779.html
>
>
>NSA runs best fab in world
>By: Mike Magee
>Posted: 03/01/2001 at 13:03 GMT
>
>You might think that AMD's Dresden fab is state-of-the-art
>technology. You might also suspect that Intel and IBM have some
>pretty
>nifty technology too, lurking in their clean rooms and in their labs.
>
>
>And you might be right as far as the commercial world goes. But
>there's a fab, owned by the US government, and run by the National
>Security Agency (NSA), which is supposed to knock them into a cocked hat.
>
I wouldn't believe this for a picosecond. Lots of reasons. For one
thing, most of their needs are for building fairly low-tech (designed
long ago) PALs, PLAs, gate arrays, ROMs, etc.
Cutting edge communications or CPU chips _are_ extremely
yield-sensitive, even for a "cost is no object" fab. No way that a
little tiny fab on Ft. Meade property, as we understand the NSA fab
to be, is making processing chips to compete with Alphas, Pentiums,
and UltraSparc IIIs.
Lots of other reasons.
Frankly, we're seeing _way_ too many articles forwarded from the "UK
Register." This is an entertaining Web site, but well over half of
the stuff they publish is flaky speculation. The "journalists" who
write for the Register often don't even get the names of
industry-standard terms right.
--Tim May
--
Timothy C. May tcmay at got.net Corralitos, California
Political: Co-founder Cypherpunks/crypto anarchy/Cyphernomicon
Technical: physics/soft errors/Smalltalk/Squeak/agents/games/Go
Personal: b.1951/UCSB/Intel '74-'86/retired/investor/motorcycles/guns
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Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 11:39:53 -0500
Subject: I have tried them all........this one is for real....!
Message-ID: <200101051648.IAA02628@cyberpass.net>
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From phil.f.vanaria at usago.ksc.nasa.gov Fri Jan 5 09:19:05 2001
From: phil.f.vanaria at usago.ksc.nasa.gov (Vanaria, Phil F)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 12:19:05 -0500
Subject: When they came for the Jews...
Message-ID: <114E43AA5F76D411B62E00508B95A9370265E242@kscgrndexc1>
Dear folks at Cypherpunk,
I was at your website and saw the title "When they came for the Jews... "
I know that this is from a quote / poem, but I'm foggy on who wrote it, or
the title of it.
If you could enlighten me, I'd greatly appreciate it.
Thanks!
Phil
From rachellelacy at hotmail.com Fri Jan 5 09:52:52 2001
From: rachellelacy at hotmail.com (Rachelle Lacy)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 12:52:52 -0500
Subject: "sexyfun"
Message-ID:
FYI:
We don't appriciate being sent these things leave me alone.
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
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From k.brown at ccs.bbk.ac.uk Fri Jan 5 10:00:29 2001
From: k.brown at ccs.bbk.ac.uk (Ken Brown)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 13:00:29 -0500
Subject: Anglo-American communications studies
References: <3A54EFF2.EC6AED48@harmon.arrowhead.lib.mn.us>
Message-ID: <3A560BA8.6F9AD2C7@ccs.bbk.ac.uk>
Harmon Seaver wrote:
> Amazing what passes for cryptic comments these days.
Maybe it *is* crypto? The email equivalent of a numbers station. Who
knows whether or not:
" Please remove "Shanah Tovah" item which appears after doing a search
of my name Cheryl Gilan."
is in fact a cryptic message to release an ETA bomb squad somewhere in
Spain?
David Honig wrote:
> So what do you call the artifacts that warm your homes, and where
> are they located? Boilers and radiators? Embedded wires? Fireplaces?
> Peat fires? Mad-cow-dung fires?
Boilers. No-one I know uses hot air to heat a domestic house though you
do get it in some large commercial buildings.
These days they are smaller, and sit on the wall, often in a cupboard.
They no longer store water, just heat it up on the way through. I should
think that 99% of all new houses and flats use that sort. Mine is in a
sort of broom-cupboard beside the toilet. Older ones tend to be largish
lagged things, often in the attic (i.e. space below the roof).
John Young wrote:
> In New York City, there is an important distinction between
> cellar and basement. Cellars are not habitable while
> basements are. The building code definition of a basement
> is that at least half its height is above street level, and that
> of cellar is that just over half its height is below street
> level. Many residential buildings are designed to
> take advantage of that distinction. The rule covers
> sloping site conditions to average the difference between
> front and back.
500 years ago "cellar" didn't necessarily imply underground at all. When
brick came into general use in domestic houses it enabled the building
of cheap chimneys, which enabled the older "hall" houses to be divided
by a floor into an upstairs and a downstairs. In many medium-sized
houses the family moved upstairs (in larger ones they were already there
at one end of the hall in the "solar") leaving the business (kitchen,
goods, servants, animals) below. Some houses used brick or stone to
reinforce the floor, erecting pillars to support it & that became a
"cellar" whether or not it was below street level. Chimneys, ceilings,
furniture, printing & Protestantism all became common in England in one
generation sometime in the late 15th or early 16th century. OK, the
Protestantism was a little later.
Harmon Seaver wrote:
> In different areas of the US we have different tems for the thing get water
> out of at the sink. In the south it's often called spigot, and in the north
> faucet. Also tap. What do you Brits call that?
Tap. We find the word "faucet" funny, it sounds as if it should be
slightly obscene, a good example of the US habit of never using a short
word when a long one will do. But when I found myself amongst Americans
I was slightly disappointed to find that they almost all say "tap" these
days. Just as they say "car" instead of "automobile". You are obviously
all watching too much British TV, or listening to too many British rock
bands. You should defend your language against this tide of old-world
vulgarity.
Ken Brown
From mike3 at info-web-prods.com Fri Jan 5 05:47:05 2001
From: mike3 at info-web-prods.com (mike3 at info-web-prods.com)
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 13:47:05 +0000
Subject: safe fast diet
Message-ID: <5x4m5d5kxr6.7c7j4ukhih4@dialup11.websitedirectors.net>
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From tcmay at got.net Fri Jan 5 10:57:43 2001
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 13:57:43 -0500
Subject: More half-baked social planning ideas
In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20010104165437.007b0e50@pop.sprynet.com>
References:
Message-ID:
At 7:59 PM -0500 1/4/01, David Honig wrote:
>At 05:29 AM 1/4/01 -0500, Ken Brown wrote:
>
>>Anyway, surely basements are urban vs. rural? A way of getting more room
>>in a restricted space. Do people build them out in the country?
>
>Tim enlightened us IIRC that they have to do with the frost line... you
>want to have your lowest slab below it.
Yes, basements are mainly intended to put the foundation below the
frost heave line. Failure to do this means that as the ground below
the foundation freezes and thaws and freezes and thaws...the
foundation moves and cracks and all sorts of bad stuff.
(There are approaches being pioneered in Scandinavia to allow
suitably-build foundations which don't need basements.)
BTW, in places where the frost heave line is so far below the surface
as to be unreachable with conventional basements, houses are often
elevated above the ground. Permafrost regions in Siberia, for
example. In most places a conventional 2-3-meter deep basement is
adequate to get below the heave line.
As I noted in my reply to Ray Dillinger--which he graciously
acknowledged to be correct!--California (and Arizona, and most of
Oregon that I saw) rarely have basements. None of the houses I looked
at in south Texas had basements, either. (No frost heave.) Sometimes
people want them as a way of getting extra space, but this is fairly
rare. And in many regions the water table is not far below the
surface, so basements are, as they say, "contraindicated."
Basements have essentially nothing to do with keeping a house cool in
the summer.
Though basements and cellars did serve a purpose, besides the frost
heave considerations, of being a place to store vegetables ("root
cellar") and as a place to retreat to during tornados ("storm
cellar").
California's energy problems today are market problems, not caused by
lack of basements!
--Tim May
--
Timothy C. May tcmay at got.net Corralitos, California
Political: Co-founder Cypherpunks/crypto anarchy/Cyphernomicon
Technical: physics/soft errors/Smalltalk/Squeak/agents/games/Go
Personal: b.1951/UCSB/Intel '74-'86/retired/investor/motorcycles/guns
From declan at well.com Fri Jan 5 11:48:13 2001
From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 14:48:13 -0500
Subject: Where John Ashcroft stands on technology: A mixed bag
Message-ID:
http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,41008,00.html
Top Cop Arrives With Mixed Bag
by Declan McCullagh (declan at wired.com)
2:00 a.m. Jan. 5, 2001 PST
For liberal Democrats, John Ashcroft is a maddening symbol of
everything wrong with a George W. Bush presidency -- from the former
senator's staunch opposition to abortion to his alleged insensitivity
regarding race.
To conservatives, Bush's nominee for attorney general represents
precisely the opposite extreme: A respected leader who will restore
integrity to a Justice Department brought low by the Clinton
administration. Ashcroft opposes background checks at gun shows,
supports increased penalties for drug offenses and would not prohibit
discrimination based on sexual orientation.
On technology issues, Ashcroft's record as a Missouri governor and
senator is mixed. He seems genuinely to believe in privacy rights and
economic liberty, and has taken a moderate position on intellectual
property and fair-use rights.
But free-speech groups already are girding themselves for the legal
equivalent of trench warfare, predicting that newly emboldened
Department of Justice prosecutors will launch an assault on sexually
explicit material online. And Microsoft foes fret that the antitrust
division's commitment to the high-profile antitrust case may wane.
On one point everyone can agree: More than any other Cabinet member,
the next attorney general will be in a position to make crucial
decisions with far-reaching effects on antitrust enforcement, privacy
protections and free speech rights.
"An Ashcroft DOJ could be a decidedly mixed bag for the high-tech
sector since he will be engaged in a constant balancing act on most
industry issues," says Adam Thierer, an analyst at the free-market
Cato Institute who's well connected in Republican technology circles.
"While Ashcroft has a very strong record of support for loosening
encryption controls, he may be faced with pressure from GOP
law-and-order types to moderate his views on this and also be willing
to continue, or even expand FBI efforts like Carnivore," Thierer said.
Make that a near certainty. It's a fair bet that pro-law enforcement
conservatives in the mold of wiretap-happy Rep. Bill McCollum of
Florida, who unsuccessfully ran for the state's open Senate seat, will
view a Republican DOJ as an opportunity to expand government
surveillance and wiretapping powers.
Liberal Democrats have vowed opposition to Ashcroft's nomination --
People for the American Way even assembled a detailed criticism of the
nominee -- but privately confide that they don't expect to
successfully block his confirmation by the Senate.
Wiretapping and Carnivore:
Under Attorney General Janet Reno, a DOJ panel has reviewed the FBI's
controversial Carnivore surveillance system and extended a tentative
blessing. But critics panned the review board as uniformly
pro-government, as first reported by Wired News, and independent
researchers refused to participate in the process.
Ashcroft is the former two-term attorney general and two-term governor
of Missouri. During his time there, he cemented his reputation as a
solid conservative eager to lower taxes and build new prisons.
[...]
----- End forwarded message -----
From lists at politechbot.com Fri Jan 5 12:16:28 2001
From: lists at politechbot.com (Declan McCullagh)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 15:16:28 -0500
Subject: Where John Ashcroft stands on technology: A mixed bag
Message-ID: <20010105151628.A32509@cluebot.com>
----- Forwarded message from Declan McCullagh -----
From plgriffiths at acf-int.co.uk Fri Jan 5 07:24:53 2001
From: plgriffiths at acf-int.co.uk (Paul Griffiths)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 15:24:53 -0000
Subject: Lotus 123 Password
Message-ID: <000801c0772b$abccd200$a9c8a8c0@LANmodem>
SOS
I have lost password to a 123.97 spreadsheet. Any advice would be much appreciated
Thanx
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From reeza at flex.com Fri Jan 5 17:30:22 2001
From: reeza at flex.com (Reese)
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 15:30:22 -1000
Subject: Anglo-American communications studies
In-Reply-To:
References:
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010105152821.00b1cb50@flex.com>
At 02:16 AM 1/5/01 -0800, petro wrote:
>
>>
>>Actual boiler-type furnaces are quite rare in the US, and
>
> No they aren't. Out of 5 apartments I lived in in Chicago, 4
>of them had steam heat. So did the apartments of most of my friends.
>
> My grandmother's house in Saint Louis has/had a boiler and steam heat.
The hospital in the town I grew up in had one for heating, and emergency
power in case of brown/black-outs. It was functional and operating, when
as a lad of 15 or so, I ventured down to the basement one day. Figure mid
1970s, for timeframe.
Reese
From reeza at flex.com Fri Jan 5 17:31:18 2001
From: reeza at flex.com (Reese)
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 15:31:18 -1000
Subject: Lotus 123 Password
In-Reply-To: <000801c0772b$abccd200$a9c8a8c0@LANmodem>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010105153056.00be76e0@flex.com>
Prove that you ever had the password. If you can.
At 03:24 PM 1/5/01 +0000, Paul Griffiths wrote:
>SOS
>I have lost password to a 123.97 spreadsheet. Any advice would be much
>appreciated
>Thanx
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From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Fri Jan 5 14:20:48 2001
From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 16:20:48 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Worldwide Caution - Public Announcement - January 5, 2001 (fwd)
Message-ID:
____________________________________________________________________
Before a larger group can see the virtue of an idea, a
smaller group must first understand it.
"Stranger Suns"
George Zebrowski
The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate
Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com
www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087
-====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
--------------------------------------------------------------------
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 14:24:09 -0500
From: PA List Manager
To: DOSTRAVEL at LISTS.STATE.GOV
Subject: Worldwide Caution - Public Announcement - January 5, 2001
Worldwide Caution - Public Announcement
January 5, 2001
The Department of State remains concerned about the possibility for
terrorist actions against United States citizens and interests throughout
the world. American citizens are reminded of the need to remain vigilant
with regard to their personal security. This Public Announcement is not in
response to any one particular threat or event but to emphasize the U.S.
Government's ongoing concern for the security of Americans overseas.
The Department of State continues to receive reports that prompt concern
about the safety and security of both official U.S. Government personnel and
private American citizens worldwide. As always, we take this information
seriously. As a result, U.S. Government facilities worldwide remain at a
heightened state of alert. In addition, U.S. Government facilities have and
will continue to temporarily close or suspend public services as necessary
to review their security posture and ensure its adequacy.
In light of the above, U.S. citizens are urged to maintain a high level of
vigilance and to take appropriate steps to increase their security awareness
to reduce their vulnerability. Americans should maintain a low profile,
vary routes and times for all required travel, and treat mail and packages
from unfamiliar sources with suspicion. In addition, American citizens are
also urged to avoid contact with any suspicious, unfamiliar objects, and to
report their presence to local authorities. Vehicles should not be left
unattended, if at all possible, and should be kept locked at all times.
U.S. Government personnel overseas have been advised to take the same
precautions.
U.S. citizens planning to travel abroad should consult the Department of
State's Public Announcements, Travel Warnings, Consular Information Sheets,
and regional travel brochures, all of which are available at the Consular
Affairs Internet web site at http://travel.state.gov. We will continue to
provide updated information should it become available. American citizens
overseas may contact the American Citizens Services unit of the nearest U.S.
Embassy or Consulate by telephone or fax for up-to-date information on
security conditions. In addition, American citizens in need of emergency
assistance should telephone the nearest U.S. Embassy or Consulate before
visiting the Embassy or Consulate.
This Public Announcement replaces the Public Announcement - Worldwide
Caution of October 12, 2000, and it expires on June 7, 2001.
***********************************************************
See http://travel.state.gov/travel_warnings.html for
State Department Travel Warnings
************************************************************
To change your subscription, go to http://www.state.gov/www/listservs.html
From cecarl at whtt.org Fri Jan 5 15:02:03 2001
From: cecarl at whtt.org (cecarl at whtt.org)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 18:02:03 -0500
Subject: HeadsUp! Return of the Body Snatchers
Message-ID: <200101052301.QAA01215@mai1.ghijk.com>
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
This is Edition 1-1 of "Pharisee Watch" a free internet service of We Hold These Truths. Future weekly editions will bear that title, please look for them. This is an opt in mailing intended for those who want to receive it. If you have received this mailing in error, or if you wish to withdraw, please follow the instructions at the end.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
THE BODY SNATCHER'S REPORT ON ON PLANET EARTH:
Imagine a clandestine business visitor to our planet from another galaxy. His purpose is to determine if Earth is worth acquiring. If so, can it be bought or must it be conquered? Our visitor has done this before and is an expert evaluator. He is not to be detoured by prejudices or preconceived notions of power or virtue, and he is equipped with ice cold, near perfect insight and wisdom born of a race of conquerors.
Our uninvited visitor quickly determines that a place called America is the unquestioned jewel of the planet. It boasts the highest growth, industrial might, agricultural production, and capital base on planet Earth. This space auditor decides that America also has the unchallenged military technology to rule the world, and perhaps the entire galaxy.
Our visitor wonders how this country accomplished this preeminence. He notes that the period of greatest growth and productivity in America appears to have occurred during a time of cultural freedom and fervor, and that the dominant cultural standard or code is called Christianity. He measures the predominance of this culture, not by the number or size of relic cathedrals, but by the number of persons who regularly meet in meeting halls called churches. He notices that many, but not all, of these people worship a higher being.
Our visitor observes with curiosity that at the beginning of the 21st Century there are more churchgoers in America than in the rest of the world combined. He also notices that Americans voluntarily contribute enormous amounts of their paper currency to others, often quite sacrificially. His review of American history reveals that the relationship of Christianity to its government and its education system is informal but traditional, dating back to the founding of the country, but it has declined rapidly in the last half of the 20th century. Furthermore, he does not fail to notice a direct relationship between America's lawfulness and the church attendance habits of its people.
Being of superior intelligence, the intergalactic agent heads straight for the meat of the matter. Who runs things in America, and therefore, the planet? He knows from experience that this is the first question he will be asked by his superiors. He must find out with absolute certainty with whom he must deal, or with whom he must make war. His commander will want the names of the behind-the-scenes leaders, not the clearly visible functionaries.
This alien visitor, by use of superior technology, can compress a lifetime of study (for an earthling) into a few hours. He will unravel the control puzzle by listening through some very thick walls, by scanning documents inside sealed vaults of guarded places, and by reading the minds of those who seemed to be powerful.
After making such a study, our brainy visitor arrives at a startling conclusion. His report states that Americans appear to manage and govern themselves through a complex but seemingly workable process, but this is illusory. In fact a very small, active minority, identifiable by a different written culture code, rules. After making a study of the religious documents of this ruling minority, he labels them the "anti-Christians."
The analyst notes that, in spite of the aggressive antagonism of the minority for the Christian majority, the reverse is not true. He observes that the Christian majority seems unable to recognize the antipathy of their adversary toward them, and that this produces in them a condition that is characteristic of servitude. He notes, however, that the relationship is not one of slave and owner; indeed, it appears to be one of willing host and benign parasite.
The space traveler observes that those who identify themselves as "Christians" are a clear voting majority; but the anti-Christians (in plain sight of all) control the media, press, banking system and entertainment. He also observed that anti-Christians occupy a disproportionate number of the functionary and policy setting jobs through which they dominate representative government. He noted that the anti-Christians seemed to have a hypnotic power over their hosts, causing the Christians to accept anti-Christian culture and the veneration of anti-Christian shrines and symbols.
The observer at first believed that the anti-Christians are a superior race (not unlike his own) with a genetic predisposition for administration and control. They might be from another planet that had successfully invaded and domesticated the Christian majority. So overwhelming was the number of anti-Christian functionaries in the highest and most influential offices of Earth that he could not imagine why there are so few Christians in revolt.
However, this outer space scout is able to dismiss the thought that the anti-Christians are a superhuman race from another galaxy. A brief visit to the home colony of the anti-Christians, the place he has named "Xion," convinces him otherwise. There he finds the anti-Christians were indeed human, possessing all the frailties he has observed elsewhere on the planet. Despite being a clear majority they ruled Xion quite badly. He was stunned to find that the anti-Christians, who control the Christians so well in America, live in a state of perpetual war and strife in their own homeland. Xion's economy is feeble and its currency depreciated, and an impoverished but devout minority faction is in near constant revolt. The anti-Christian home colony is wracked with inflation and dominated by an unhealthy military establishment. It survives on doles from other nations and employs systematic state terror and torture to enforce obedience and order upon its dissident minority.
Satisfied with his trip, the planet traveler returns to his space ship to write his report. He states: "The capture of Planet Earth is a cinch and is well worth the trouble. Three percent of the population controls everything. We have only to take over and eradicate that tiny anti-Christian minority and assume their role to run the entire planet at our will. We will pretend to be them. The Christians are the key to earth's productivity. They need not even know our revolution is going on." His report then warns: "Our success requires complete and total elimination of the anti-Christian faction from all positions of authority. Their capacity for mischief and abuse of power seems to be unlimited. Earth's historical records clearly show that the anti-Christians' rapacious greed results from the written code of their culture, which most will not abandon. There is little room for trust or for any lasting negotiated business arrangement with them."
The intergalactic visitor then comments of the Christians: "The earthlings known as Christians, for reasons I have not yet determined, but which are certainly related to their code of culture, are trusting, malleable, and easy to deceive. They are not likely to revolt so long as they can be convinced their oppressors are their friends and share the code of their culture." He concludes: "The best way to control them is the same way the anti-Christians control them-through manipulation of their own church leaders." --Eric Blair
Copyright 2000, may be reproducible in full only, with permission.
We Hold These Truths
4839 E. Greenway Road, #151
Scottsdale, AZ 85254
(http://www.whtt.org)
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If you wish to help WHTT, please type "Cloudseeder" in the SUBJECT.
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From k.brown at ccs.bbk.ac.uk Fri Jan 5 10:04:56 2001
From: k.brown at ccs.bbk.ac.uk (Ken Brown)
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 18:04:56 +0000
Subject: When they came for the Jews...
References: <114E43AA5F76D411B62E00508B95A9370265E242@kscgrndexc1>
Message-ID: <3A560CC8.51853757@ccs.bbk.ac.uk>
We don't have a website. But the quote is supposed to be Martin
Niemvller
"In Germany, they first came for the communists, and I didn't speak up
because I wasn't a communist. Then they came for the
Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for
the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I
wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics and I didn't
speak up because I wasn't a Catholic. Then they came for me - and by
that time there was nobody left to speak up."
No doubt Tom Vogt has the original auf Deutsch.
Ken Brown
"Vanaria, Phil F" wrote:
>
> Dear folks at Cypherpunk,
>
> I was at your website and saw the title "When they came for the Jews... "
> I know that this is from a quote / poem, but I'm foggy on who wrote it, or
> the title of it.
> If you could enlighten me, I'd greatly appreciate it.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Phil
From bill.stewart at pobox.com Fri Jan 5 18:36:56 2001
From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart)
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 18:36:56 -0800
Subject: Anglo-American communications studies
In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010105152821.00b1cb50@flex.com>
References:
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010105183656.00941a90@idiom.com>
> >>Actual boiler-type furnaces are quite rare in the US, and
> >
> > No they aren't. Out of 5 apartments I lived in in Chicago, 4
> >of them had steam heat. So did the apartments of most of my friends.
> >
> > My grandmother's house in Saint Louis has/had a boiler and steam heat.
It's strongly related to the age of the building,
as well as climate, fuel costs and convenience, etc.
Most modern construction uses forced-air heating,
it's cheap, responds rapidly, doesn't take up room space, and
the ductwork can be used for central air-conditioning.
My condo in Silicon Valley uses electric baseboard heat,
which was a fad in the 60s and 70s when electricity was cheap,
and has high ceilings so it doesn't need A/C in this climate.
My apartment in Berkeley 20+ years ago had a gas-fired wall heater,
relatively small and efficient for a 3-room place.
My house in New Jersey, built in 1931, had steam radiators,
with an oil-fired boiler that was originally coal-fired;
my sister's house in Delaware is a bit older and
has hot-water radiators.
I paid less for winter heat in the Berkeley apartment
than I did for summer electricity in New Jersey;
I pay more now for winter heat in this mild California climate
than I did in New Jersey where the winter gets reasonably cold,
because electricity's more expensive than oil (even with
lower night-time prices) and high ceilings are much better
for keeping cool in the summer than warm in the winter,
plus nobody bothered to insulate buildings out here in the 70s.
Thanks!
Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639
From hahaha at sexyfun.net Fri Jan 5 15:49:38 2001
From: hahaha at sexyfun.net (Hahaha)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 18:49:38 -0500
Subject: Snowhite and the Seven Dwarfs - The REAL story!
Message-ID: <200101052349.SAA23861@domains.invweb.net>
Today, Snowhite was turning 18. The 7 Dwarfs always where very educated and
polite with Snowhite. When they go out work at mornign, they promissed a
*huge* surprise. Snowhite was anxious. Suddlently, the door open, and the Seven
Dwarfs enter...
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From udhay at pobox.com Fri Jan 5 05:27:08 2001
From: udhay at pobox.com (Udhay Shankar N)
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 18:57:08 +0530
Subject: [IRR] Announcing Cypherpunks-India
Message-ID:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
***Please circulate to all interested parties***
This is to announce the Cypherpunks-India mailing list. The list is
for cypherpunks in India, and for those who want to track the
convergence of cryptography, politics and society here.
As you know, I volunteered to organise cypherpunks fleshmeets in
Bangalore a few months ago. We had an initial meet with some hoopla,
along with the Linux-India monthly meet in Bangalore. Public
meetings, however, have not happened since then (as opposed to the
private meetings and interactions - you know who you are.). It's been
difficult co-ordinating with people, who are mostly madly busy and
geographically distributed throughout India. This list, therefore, is
a first step towards giving some structure to the various
behind-the-scenes interactions we've been having, and to spread
awareness of crypto and how it impacts commerce and politics today.
The list is kindly hosted by Vipul Ved Prakash, who needs no
introduction to crypto observers here. Vipul also hosts
http://munitions.vipul.net - which is an archive of crypto software
that is mirrored across multiple locations. Vipul also was one of the
finalists in the 3rd Annual Obfuscated Perl Contest with his
dimunitive implementation of the Russian GOST algorithm.
To subscribe, use any ONE of the following URLs:
In the next few days, as things evolve, we will put up some more
information at the URLs above.
Thanks for all your support, and see you on the list!
Udhay
- --
((Udhay Shankar N)) ((udhay @ pobox.com)) ((www.digeratus.com))
God is silent. Now if we can only get Man to shut up.
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--
\|/ ____ \|/
@~/ oO \~@
/_( \__/ )_\
\_U__/
# distributed via : no commercial use without permission
# is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
# collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
# more info: majordomo at bbs.thing.net and "info nettime-l" in the msg body
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--- end forwarded text
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The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation
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"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
From seawolf_84746 at yahoo.com Fri Jan 5 19:00:46 2001
From: seawolf_84746 at yahoo.com (seawolf)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 19:00:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: The Ferry Woman
Message-ID: <20010106030046.24685.qmail@web4104.mail.yahoo.com>
Some time back I posted a note to what I thought was
an individual interested in the Mountain Meadows
Massacre, as it was listed in a thread.
I did not realize that it was going to be posted to a
list, and I do apologize for annoying your members.
Please accept my apogies.
Gerald Grimmett
Author, The Ferry Woman
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!
http://photos.yahoo.com/
From ANTIGEN_EXCHANGE at thinklinkinc.com Fri Jan 5 16:04:15 2001
From: ANTIGEN_EXCHANGE at thinklinkinc.com (ANTIGEN_EXCHANGE)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 19:04:15 -0500
Subject: Antigen found W32/Hybris@m virus
Message-ID: <3475CE1F1D75D4118174009027A4CDE6322C41@exchange.thinklinkinc.com>
Antigen for Exchange found midgets.scr infected with W32/Hybris at m virus.
The file is currently Deleted. The message, "Snowhite and the Seven Dwarfs
- The REAL story!", was
sent from Hahaha and was discovered in IMC Queues\Inbound
located at ITC/Corporate/EXCHANGE.
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From mailbot at sunspot.net Fri Jan 5 17:02:40 2001
From: mailbot at sunspot.net (mailbot at sunspot.net)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 20:02:40 -0500 (EST)
Subject: FWD from Wilfred@Cryogen.com: NSA abandons wondrous stuff
Message-ID: <200101060102.UAA24904@msubwa10.usi.net>
Do not reply directly to this email; it is being sent out from an automated program on SunSpot and will bounce.
Wilfred forwarded this story to you from www.sunspot.net,
Maryland's Online Community.
To view this story on the web go to
http://www.sunspot.net/content/cover/story?section=cover&pagename=story&storyid=1150520223288
It was sent with the following comments:
"-- I'd love to have this place
as a playpen :)
-Wilfred
Wilfred at Cryogen.com"
------------------------------------------------------
Headline: NSA abandons wondrous stuff
Subhead: Surprises: Astronomers who took over an abandoned spy base find remarkable, expensive and often incomprehensible stuff at every turn.
By Laura Sullivan
SUN NATIONAL STAFF
TRANSYLVANIA COUNTY,
N.C. - Along the long, twisting road through the Pisgah National
Forest, the first sign that something is out of the ordinary
is a line of giant transformers. Then, around the bend, a barbed-wire
fence, guard shack and surveillance cameras protect what looks
like nothing more than another hill of trees and dense shrubbery.
It is anything but.
This is the entrance to one of the National Security Agency's
former spy stations, a place shrouded in secrets and denials,
the source of local lore that seems right out of "X-Files."
What is inside that giant geodesic dome that looks like a golf
ball? Where do the tunnels snaking beneath the 202-acre site
lead? Why are the rugs welded to the floors of the windowless
buildings?
Few people have been beyond these gates, deep inside the Appalachian
Mountains, 50 miles southwest of Asheville.
The NSA abandoned the site to the U.S. Forest Service five years
ago, leaving behind a deserted minicity in the middle of nowhere.
Now, some of the secrets are being revealed.
Last year, with the base boarded up and close to demolition,
the property was transferred to a group of astronomers in exchange
for a piece of land in western North Carolina. Over the past
year, they have begun piecing together the site's past.
"There
are things on this site you will never see anywhere else,"
said site manager Jim Powers. "I've never had someone
come here that wasn't blown away."
The astronomers, who formed the Pisgah Astronomical Research
Institute, were attracted by two 85-foot satellites dishes on
the site - some of the largest in the country - which could be
repositioned to catch deep-space radio signals and allow them
to study the life and death of stars.
When the group arrived in January 1999, they expected a basic,
albeit large, government facility, but as the weeks passed they
realized little about the site was what it appeared.
As they began to install their computers, they found hundreds
of miles of top-of-the-line cabling running under every floor.
They discovered that the self-contained water and sewer treatment
plant could handle tens of thousands of gallons of water at a
time and the generator could produce 235 kilowatts of energy
- powerful enough to light up a small city.
In a basement room of one of the larger buildings, they found
the entrance to a 1,200-foot tunnel system that connects two
of the site's main buildings.
Every inch of floor in more than four buildings was covered
with two-by-two-foot squares of bleak brown carpet. When the
astronomers tried to replace it, they discovered it was welded
with tiny metal fibers to the floor. The result, they eventually
realized, is that the rugs prevent the buildings from conducting
static electricity.
Even the regular lighting looks different, covered by sleek
metal grids that prevent the light bulbs from giving off static
interference. The few windows are bulletproof.
But what fascinated the astronomers was the still-operable security
system that, among other things, sounds an alarm in the main
building any time the front perimeter is crossed. The group can
watch on monitors as cars approach from miles away.
Inside the site, the agency had taken further measures. One
area is in a small, sunken river ravine surrounded by barbed
wire and an additional guard post. Steps, with reflective metal
paneling to shield the identity of those walking beneath, lead
down a small hill and wind their way to two small buildings with
conference rooms inside - both of which once emanated "white
noise" to prevent electronic eavesdropping.
What Powers and several others in the group find remarkable,
though, is not just the expansive network of buildings and security,
but the extraordinary cost of all they items they have found
- items the agency discarded.
He said the extensive fiber optic cabling that runs for miles
under the floors and through the tunnel system is the most expensive
on the market.
When a state regulator came out to issue a permit for a massive
underground storage tank with a double lining, the astronomers
said he told them he wished he had a camera. He wanted to take
a picture to show his co-workers because he had never seen a
system so sophisticated.
And the agency didn't just install one water tank; it installed
two. In a basement room, beneath a system that pressurizes wells,
is another system just like it.
"You see this kind of thing everywhere here," Powers
said. "They never have just one of something."
Even most of the heavy bolt locks - which every door has - are
covered by black boxes locked with padlocks.
Despite the site's stark appearance, there are some human
- and humorous - vestiges. A bright happy face is painted on
the smallest of the four satellite dishes on the site, something
one former employee said was done so that they could "smile
back at the Russians."
Inside the tunnels, too, are chalk drawings of animals and warriors
resembling those found in caves thousands of years ago.
Aside from the rustling of deer and the wild turkeys that run
rampant across the hundreds of vacant parking spaces, everything
about the place is now eerily quiet.
Paperwork in the guard shack is held in place by a stapler though
no one has been inside the small building in years. Security
cameras still work and alarms all still sound, though no one
is listening.
When the agency withdrew in 1995, some of the 300 workers, especially
those who grew up locally and got hired on as groundskeepers
and mechanics, returned to the nearby towns, though many say
they are still forbidden to talk about their work.
Most of the others - the security officers, military personnel
and cryptologists - left the area for their next Department of
Defense post.
The site dates back to the early 1960s, when a scaled-down version
was carved out to support the space program. It was operated
at first by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration,
and scientists used the early satellite dishes to track the flights
into outer space and kept the door open for school groups and
visitors who wanted to learn more about space missions.
But suddenly in 1981, the NSA took over from NASA. Local hikers
and hunters who stumbled onto some of the agency's acreage
would be suddenly surrounded by armed guards who appeared as
if from nowhere to escort them out of the woods. Vans with darkened
windows shuttled past the local coffee shops, fueling rumors.
The agency's presence was hard on the local employees as
well.
Don Powell began working on the site in 1967 as a car mechanic
and spent the next three decades learning the mechanics of every
inch of the satellite dishes for the Defense Department. He also
learned to avoid questions about his work and to lie to his neighbors.
For 15 years people would approach him and the few other local
workers, asking what was out there, what they did and, of course,
what is that golf ball?
"The kids would always ask, what's in [that] giant
dome?"
He would tell them it was "filled with chocolate pudding,"
he said. "I couldn't even tell my wife. I couldn't
tell anyone."
The 1995 closure appears to have caught the agency by surprise.
It had recently cleared several more areas and laid the foundations
for additional smaller satellite dishes that were never built.
One newly built satellite dish, which one insider says was never
turned on, was dismantled and shipped to England.
The Forest Service tried unsuccessfully to engineer a land trade
for three years, hampered by a site that posed many problems
for the few interested parties - from the remote location to
the expense of removing satellite dishes embedded 80 feet into
the ground.
The agency was about to return with a bulldozer when the astronomers
group, headed by benefactor J. Donald Cline, a scientist and
former computer executive, offered to buy and trade 375 acres
along the French Broad River in North Carolina for the spy station.
What made the site, shielded from interference in a natural
bowl-shaped terrain, so perfect for the NSA made the site perfect
for the astronomers as well. They plan to use the satellite dishes
to read the characteristics of elements given off by dying stars.
"This area is free of light pollution," Powers said,
as he stood in the middle of a vast, empty parking lot. "It's
also clean in terms of electromagnetic interference like cell
phone towers or things that create electromagnetic noise.
"And
we can be sure there won't be any in the future because the
Forest Service owns everything around here. ... It's easy
to see why they liked this place."
Recently, in one of a dozen large empty rooms in one of four
mostly empty office buildings where the group decided to set
up shop, four scientists stood around a portable panel of monitors
and computers, watching the results of a test appear on a screen.
"It's stardust," said the site's technical
director, astronomer Charles Osborne. "This stuff is just
floating around out there. It's the building blocks of life."
In order to use the satellite dishes, they had to spend months
trying to slow them down. Both of the 85-foot dishes swing on
two axes, an extravagance the astronomers suspect allowed the
agency to swing the face around swiftly to catch up with satellites
orbiting Earth. The astronomers need the dishes to move no faster
than the speed of Earth itself.
But there is much on the site that the astronomers don't
know what to do with, such as the paper-shredding building up
on one hill, the large helicopter pad on top of another, and
down in a valley of well-manicured grass, that giant golf ball,
similar to those seen at NSA headquarters at Fort Meade.
Close up from the outside, the ball is a circle of triangles,
no two identical, that feel like Gore-Tex to the touch. When
one triangle at the bottom is pushed, several triangles around
it gyrate, letting off a low grumbling sound of bending metal
echoing throughout the ball.
Inside, past a small door less than 4 feet tall, the ball glows
white, lighted by the sunlight outside reflecting and bouncing
inside from one triangle to another.
In its center is a 40-foot satellite dish, cleaner and smoother
than any of the others. It looks new, though it has been there
for years. There are unusual numbered patterns on the dish's
white panels, laid out like a cheat sheet to a jigsaw puzzle.
The astronomers believe that the triangles vary in size as a
clever way to minimize the effect of interference that comes
from patterns.
Enclosing the dish under such a surface, they speculate, would
protect it from the weather, and prevent anyone else from seeing
it or reading the direction it is pointed.
For the astronomers, though, this curious dish is somewhat irrelevant.
They need dishes with large faces, like the two bigger ones,
to read the radio signals of stars millions of light-years from
Earth.
>From far above on the perfectly level, perfectly painted helicopter
pad with a view of miles of mountains and green trees, Powers
laughed at the differences between the previous owners and the
astronomers, a group short on staff and scraping for funding.
He studied the golf ball.
"You'll go a long way before you find anything like
that around anywhere else," he said. " ... But nothing
about this place is what it seems."
------------------------------------------------------
To view this story on the web go to
http://www.sunspot.net/content/cover/story?section=cover&pagename=story&storyid=1150520223288
From Wilfred at Cryogen.com Fri Jan 5 17:03:02 2001
From: Wilfred at Cryogen.com (Wilfred L. Guerin)
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 20:03:02 -0500
Subject: NSA LookingGlass Facility (media)
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20010105200302.00a7ae68@mail.internet-95.com>
jan 05 2001
News article referencing NSA lookingglass facility, etc... Of both general,
technical, "esch--" and location oriented interest.
http://www.sunspot.net/content/cover/story?section=cover&pagename=story&stor
yid=1150520223288
-Wilfred
Wilfred at Cryogen.com
From he-who-watches at gmx.de Fri Jan 5 11:31:08 2001
From: he-who-watches at gmx.de (Olav Stetter)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 20:31:08 +0100
Subject: When they came for the Jews...
In-Reply-To: <3A560CC8.51853757@ccs.bbk.ac.uk>
References: <114E43AA5F76D411B62E00508B95A9370265E242@kscgrndexc1> <3A560CC8.51853757@ccs.bbk.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <01010520375601.00716@elevator>
Am Fre, 05 Jan 2001 schrieben Sie:
> We don't have a website. But the quote is supposed to be Martin
> Niemvller
>
> "In Germany, they first came for the communists, and I didn't speak up
> because I wasn't a communist. Then they came for the
> Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for
> the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I
> wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics and I didn't
> speak up because I wasn't a Catholic. Then they came for me - and by
> that time there was nobody left to speak up."
>
> No doubt Tom Vogt has the original auf Deutsch.
---snipped---
I didn't follow the mailings on this topic, but here is the original version (in
case Phil ist interested):
"Als die Nazis die Kommunisten holten,
habe ich geschwiegen;
Ich war ja kein Kommunist.
Als sie die Sozialdemokraten einsperrten,
habe ich geschwiegen;
ich war ja kein Sozialdemokrat.
Als sie die Gewerkschafter holten,
habe ich geschwiegen;
ich war ja kein Gewerkschafter.
Als sie die Juden holten, habe ich geschwiegen,
ich war ja kein Jude.
Als sie mich holten, gab es keinen mehr,
der protestieren konnte."
Does anyone know when he said that?
Best regards,
Olav Stetter
P.S.: His name is Martin Niemoeller, not Niemvller.
From tcmay at got.net Fri Jan 5 17:50:40 2001
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 20:50:40 -0500
Subject: Anglo-American communications studies
In-Reply-To: <3A560BA8.6F9AD2C7@ccs.bbk.ac.uk>
References:
Message-ID:
At 1:00 PM -0500 1/5/01, Ken Brown wrote:
>
>Harmon Seaver wrote:
>> In different areas of the US we have different tems for the
>>thing get water
> > out of at the sink. In the south it's often called spigot, and in the north
> > faucet. Also tap. What do you Brits call that?
>
>Tap. We find the word "faucet" funny, it sounds as if it should be
>slightly obscene, a good example of the US habit of never using a short
>word when a long one will do. But when I found myself amongst Americans
>I was slightly disappointed to find that they almost all say "tap" these
>days. Just as they say "car" instead of "automobile". You are obviously
>all watching too much British TV, or listening to too many British rock
>bands. You should defend your language against this tide of old-world
>vulgarity.
I'm now 49, and "car" has been much more common in these United
States than "automobile" has been, in my lifetime.
Further, I often hear Britishisms which are far longer and more
labored than the American equivalents. For example:
"articulated lorry" vs. "semi"
"redundant" vs. "laid-off"
"Mackintosh" vs. "raincoat"
"Pantechnicon" = "moving van"
(I only learned this last one on a site devoted to Britishisms vs.
Americanisms.)
Fact is, both dialects of English have longer versions of the same
basic word than other dialects have.
Which is preferable is a matter of taste and familiarity.
--Tim May
--
Timothy C. May tcmay at got.net Corralitos, California
Political: Co-founder Cypherpunks/crypto anarchy/Cyphernomicon
Technical: physics/soft errors/Smalltalk/Squeak/agents/games/Go
Personal: b.1951/UCSB/Intel '74-'86/retired/investor/motorcycles/guns
From bear at sonic.net Fri Jan 5 20:53:55 2001
From: bear at sonic.net (Ray Dillinger)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 20:53:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: FWD from Wilfred@Cryogen.com: NSA abandons wondrous stuff
In-Reply-To: <200101060102.UAA24904@msubwa10.usi.net>
Message-ID:
On Fri, 5 Jan 2001 mailbot at sunspot.net wrote:
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
>
> Headline: NSA abandons wondrous stuff
> Subhead: Surprises: Astronomers who took over an
> abandoned spy base find remarkable, expensive and often
> incomprehensible stuff at every turn.
Very cool...
I think it would be a profoundly and disturbingly interesting
problem to try and do a security verification on the place,
especially since miles and miles of cabling and fiber optic
are being "inherited" -- do you know everything that stuff is
hooked up to? Have you checked every inch of it to make sure
it's not hooked up to something else too? Do you even know
where all of it GOES?
Heh. These astronomers may never know whether the NSA is reading
all their astronomy long before they announce it. Fortunately,
there's not *too* much motive to keep astronomy secret.
Bear
From bill.stewart at pobox.com Fri Jan 5 18:21:15 2001
From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 21:21:15 -0500
Subject: Electric Kettles
In-Reply-To: <3A54C465.B2C3B809@lsil.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010105182028.00b17100@idiom.com>
At 01:40 PM 1/4/01 -0500, mmotyka at lsil.com wrote:
>Steve Mynott wrote:
>> Ken Brown writes:
>>
>> On a tangent a friend claimed Americans didn't have electric kettles
>> for boiling water.
>>
>> Can anyone confirm whether this is true?
>>
>I have never seen an electric kettle for boiling water for tea.
That's because Real Americans don't drink tea -
we have electric coffeemakers. The Mr. Coffee machine got
most people to switch over from percolators to drip-filter coffee,
though some people still drink (yecch!) instant coffee.
Other than tea and instant soups or similar things,
most foods that require boiling water involve cooking them in pots,
which you do on the stovetop.
Thanks!
Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639
From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Fri Jan 5 20:03:28 2001
From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 23:03:28 -0500 (EST)
Subject: FWD from Wilfred@Cryogen.com: NSA abandons wondrous stuff
In-Reply-To: <200101060102.UAA24904@msubwa10.usi.net>
Message-ID:
On Fri, 5 Jan 2001 mailbot at sunspot.net wrote:
> Wilfred forwarded this story to you from www.sunspot.net,
> Maryland's Online Community.
>
> To view this story on the web go to
> http://www.sunspot.net/content/cover/story?section=cover&pagename=story&storyid=1150520223288
>
> It was sent with the following comments:
> "-- I'd love to have this place
> as a playpen :)
>
> -Wilfred
> Wilfred at Cryogen.com"
>
>
No shit. Glad it was rescued from the bulldozers and put to good use
again.
This has to be the old satellite uplink site and tracking center in
Rosman. It was the major, if not the only, such site on the East Coast for
some time, if I recall. There were intelligence functions even
then, too. We were told the same thing about the dome; among other
things, it was to prevent prying eyes from discerning what the antenna was
looking at.
I'm at a loss, though, to figure the need for a level of secrecy
that would preclude acknowledgement that there was an antenna inside, when
everybody knew it anyway. Especially any spies. What, everybody just
forgot all of a sudden? I'm sure the NSA was a lot more restrictive
than NASA, but this is ridiculous. This sounds to me like journalistic
hyperbole, or maybe just a gool 'ol boy having fun at the expense of a
reporter.
I took one of those school tours in '69 or '70. I remember them showing
us live network video feeds from Europe and such. No doubt the NSA added
some stuff, but contrary to the breathless implications in the article, at
least from what I remember, almost all that stuff was there back then. The
tunnels, guardhouses, dishes, the dome, the redundant diesel generator sets,
fuel bunkers, etc. I can't remember if the carpet was welded down back then,
but that was the level of detail this place was built too.
It was designed from the start to be self-sufficient and remain
operational in pretty much any emergency short of a direct nuclear
strike. At the time, it was a vulnerable linchpin in the global telecom
infrastructure, and given the times, no expense was spared or contingency
unplanned for.
I highly recommend anyone go see it if they get the chance. I also welcome any
corrections or additions to 30-year old schoolboy memories.
jbdigriz
From SnSTrkn1 at aol.com Fri Jan 5 20:21:01 2001
From: SnSTrkn1 at aol.com (SnSTrkn1 at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 23:21:01 EST
Subject: would like to join
Message-ID:
please email me the information needed to join the club.
Thanks
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From barryjohnson at themail.com Sat Jan 6 00:08:31 2001
From: barryjohnson at themail.com (Barry Johnson)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 00:08:31 -0800 (PST)
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From rolf.hansen at usa.net Sat Jan 6 01:12:34 2001
From: rolf.hansen at usa.net (Rolf Hansen, SS Knights of the KKK)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 01:12:34
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Message-ID: <200101060912.f069CEA06934@ak47.algebra.com>
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epson lq570 $69 (reg $249) epson lq1170 $79 (reg. $299)
epson dfx 5000 $349 APC UPS $40 STAR reciept printer $59
DEC HP GENICOM IBM FUJITSU EXABYTE PRINTRONICS LEXMARK WYSE OKI
REPAIRS -----> laser, monitor, printer repairs. Fusers $39
LASERS ---> OVER 1000 LASERS IN STOCK - SPARE PARTS/FUSERS/TRAYS
HP Jetdirects from $39 ($200 list) lexmark marknet
HP datasouth DEC oki LEXMARK ibm GENICOM qms etc
PRINTERS---> fujitsu ibm dec hp epson genicom lexmark OKI 182 $49
TERMINALS--> 5000 terminals in stock HP DEC IBM WYSE LINK NCD etc
NETWORKING-> DEC IBM HP CISCO Cabletron (120 port hub $200)
8 port hub $19 3com 3c509 $9 ethernet tokenring
fibreoptic routers wireless satelite etc
TAPE ------> dat dlt 6250 HP SEAGATE ARCHIVE IBM QUANTUM DLT $249
Workstation> IBM HP SUN DEC ibm rs6000 model 220 $149 etc
List is partial if you don't see it ask for it we have it or can
get it
WE PROCESS 350 PALLETTES (SKIDS) OF COMPUTER EQUIPMENT PER MONTH
COMMERCIAL EQUIPMENT--UP TO 80% off -OVER 5000 TERMINALS in STOCK
NEW ARRIVALS:
mylex cacheing raid level 5 pci card 72 pin ram 3 channel $225
2 meg matrox pci $12
500 3com 3c509
cisco 2502 20 units
cisco ws-x3001 $500 u.s. (new in box)
cisco igs
cisco lgs
intel es500mfx $380 new in box 2 port 100base-fx module f/500
series switch
here is the baynetworks/nortel products.
Model 5110 Supervisory Module
Model 5001 950W AC Power Supply
Model 5399
model 5378-f
Part# AD1004004 Model 5308PS 24-Port 10BASE-T
Part# CX1004019 48 Bay DSP Modem Upgrade Kit North America (T1).
We have 14 skids of current model cabletron networking
equipment. List price of about $10,000,000 75% off of list
All is the MMAC line there is ethernet , tokenring fibreoptic ,
rj45 and isdn. some part numbers are:
irm, irm3 (over 500 units ),fdmmim, esxmim, emme, tprmim-22
emm-e6, fdcmim-08, efdmim,
sehi 34 24 port ten base t with lanview rs232 console(125 units)
tpmim-22 (over 500 units), tpmim 34 (over 500 units)
fot-f2 fibre optic tranceiver, tp-4 rj45 transceiver(over 500)
tpt fj45 tranceiver (over 500 units)
ms-283 bar code gun (200 units) fits termial or pc.
cisco igs, ags lgs , 3640 , 2502, 2503
annex cm1009e47
at&t comsphere 3000
bay networks cm1001070 mlb 360-084-901 option 1
360-072-936 rev a5
36 port remote annex 4000
bay networks cv1001018 adv. remote node 100 base fx arn
bay networks cv0011013 token ring expansion
bay networks 450-1sr mda media dependent adapter module
100 base sx
bay networks ae1001005 p/n 111375
baynetworks an flash card corporate suite p/n112639 rev a
bay networks ae1001010 p/n 113359
bay networks db1501e16 (MARLIN) ISDN ROUTER two channel
bay networks model 800
memotec da3214
memotec netaccess 900
motorola mp router 6520 voice, data , fax
synoptics 3395a, 3308ba, 3313sa
teleglobe dm1000, dm2200, MP 9000
uds ddsmr64, ddsmrs,3266
xylogics clam na/d
xylogics 4002-pn1 (REMOTE ANNEX 4000)
tec b-602-gs20-us label printer
HP items - all prices U.S.
laser trays over 2000 in stock --- fusers hp ii,iiisi,4si,4,ETC
hp differential drive towers 4 x 4.3 gig barracuda
4 x 2.2 gig fujitsu
4 x 1.2 gig $249
HP D4943A NETRAID PCI RAID LEVEL 5 ADAPTER NEW IN THE BOX
hp 9000 e35
hp9000 f20
hp 9000 800/140 857s
(upgrade a2464a)
a1703-60022
28696-60001
28640-60001
gpib
802.3
scsi (se) parallel
c1504b 4mm dat drive
c2474s 2 units
1150-1865
advancestack 27288a router 430, ROUTER 230, ROUTER 440
hp28673a bridge
hp4995a lanprobe II
hp2564b printer
hp 2563c
hp 2563a
jetdirect j2550 j2552 j2371 j2555 jetdirect ex etc
router 430, 440
all jetdirect cards $100 except j2555 $60
27286a router tr (cisco 4000 equivalent)
27289a router fr
28682A FIBRE OPTIC HUB
28674A BRIDGE
28688B HUB
C2261A STORAGE ENC
27270A ROUTER
CARDS : ENET 27271
SYNC 27270
SYSI/O
hp 9000 series 700 128 meg a1421x a2278b
eisa card #1 (looks like a digiboard ) bit 3 computer corporation
model 487-1-201
eisa card #2 fddi fibre optic transciever crescendo
communications model
es-9211-xf
eisa card #3 daughter board of above card
hp ux 4 cd set release 9.0 part #b2826-13681
$call have 2 in stock
20 inch trinitron for the above (manufactured sept 1994) $400
hp 28682a fibreoptic hub plus
for hp dat drives and auotoloaders check our dat section
iiisi jetdirect for banyan rj45 and coax
rj45 jetdirect for hp III
coax jetdirect for hp III
jetdircet combo for iiisi/ivsi
!!!!!!! HP RUGGEDWRITER $190
hp apollo 400 16 meg 425 hard drive $400
hp 20inch and 17 inch trinitrons
500 NEW hp II and III trays
60 NEW boxed HP IV multitrays
200 NEW HP 3si/4si trays
hp under sheet feeder for hp IIP/IIIp
Terminals HP 700/92,700/22, 700/94,700/96es
HP 98578
DOT MATRIX HP 2631G
DOT MATRIX HP2563A
HP 7958
INKJET HP PAINTJET Xl
PLOTTER HP 7550A plotter , 7475a, draftmaster, draftmaster ii
PLOTTER PENS FOR HP (VACUUM SEALED SETS ) $5
SYSTEM HP 7936
SYSTEM HP MICRO X3 3000
TAPE DRIVE HP 9144
TERMINAL HP 35731A
TERMINAL HPD1181E
HP LASERJET I $40 HP LASERJET II $80 HP LASERJET IID $130
HP LASERJET IIID $195 HP LASERJET IIISI 17PPM $370
HP ivSI 17PPM 600DPI HP LASERJET 2000 40 PPM 11x17
98546a
draftmaster sx plotter
draftmaster I plotter 7595
draftmaster II plotter 7576a
2345a dtc
2463a
laserjet 2000
hp 4955a logic analyser
DAT and tape drives Prices in U.S. $
I WILL BEAT ALL AD PRICES ON DAT DRIVES !!!!
The following list is incomplete for items not listed please call
514-744-9665
scsi ribbon cable $1
scsi centronics to db25 $5
scsi mini to mini $10
scsi centronics to centronics $5
SUPER SPECIAL EXABYTE EXB8200 8MM DAT $59 $u.s.
adaptek 1522 scsi controller $10
adaptek 1542 scsi controller $15
future domain scsi controller $10
exabyte exb210 autochanger 600 gig !!!!!!! $1900 u.s.
dlt 20 gig $350
dlt 30 gig $450
dlt loader 280 gig $4000
hp 35470 4 gig 4mm dat $99
150 meg archive, wangtek (5150) $25 case $5 extra
archive 150e, archive 2525s ,archive 4320nt,archive
4324np,archive 4350xt
conner ctd8000e-s
hp c1553 dd3 4mm autoloader $299 96 gig
emerald vas026 9000
exabyte ex4200c
exabyte exb8500 8mm $129, exabyte exb8205 8mm $149
exabyte exb8205xle 8mm $169
exabyte exb8505xls 8mm 14 gig $399
exabyte exb10-chs 8mm 10 tape autochanger , exabyte exb10-chse
hp 1300s $99
hp model 35470 $99 2 gig 4 mm
hp model c1504 $299
legacy 500s $50, legacy 525s $50, legacy 2000s $99 2 gig
legacy 2200d 4mm 2 gig $59, legacy 4000d 4mm 4 gig $99,
legacy 8000d 4mm 8 gig $199
sony sdt 500
seagate ctl 96gs 96 gig 4 tape autochanger
trimm da5
tecmar datavault 4000
wangdat 3200, wangtek 6130 hs $99
external enclosure $8
qualstar 6250 9 track $480
dec tu81 $400
6250 tapes New $5 Used $1
8mm 5 gig tapes used $3
3480 tapes new $3 used $1
6525 tapes new $3 used $1
tk50 tapes new $3
call 514-744-9665 we accept amex call 514-744-9665
514-744-9665
dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec
dec vax vax
dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec
dec vax vax
Digital Equipment - All prices in U.S. $
New arrivals: vax 4105a
rz27 disk
128 meg
cd rom
vaxstation 4000 60 (35 units)
16 meg
rz23
rz26
vrt19-ha (20 inch trinitron color)
vaxstation 4000 90
16 meg
rz23
rz26
vrt19-ha (20 inch trinitron color)
vax 3100 90
vax 3100 80
tf86 tape drives (dlt)
tf85 tape drives (dlt)
280 gig dlt loader
dsrvg-ma decserver 90l+
dehub-ax
1 detmm-m decrepeater 900 tm
1 dmhub-mb
decnis 600
dex2r-z routeabout access ew
dex2r-m routeabout access ew
dez8r-p routeabout central ew
Networking: dsrvh-n decserver 90m
h7082-88
decserver 700 $475 8 port dsrvw-aa
decserver 550 dsrvs-c2b03 with multiple cxy08 card
pmad-a p/n 54-19874-01
pmaz p/n 54-19876-01
rf-delni -aa (fibre optic output)
decrepeater 90T detmr-m $150 ea
decrepeater 90T+ detmr-n $150 ea
decserver 90l+ dsrvg-ma $225
decbridge 90+ dewgb-m
dehub 90 ax 1
dehua-nb
DESPR-AA,PC100-B,DECROUTER 250,LANBRIDGE
150,LANBRIDGE 100
DEC200 NICS, pm37b-by, delni-ba, ab74100b7c,
dsrva-aa,dempr-aa
h7317,pm20b-ag, dsrvb-aa,lanbridge debet-ac
70-19062-01, 70-31353-01, devp03, dvrvb-b, demsa-aa
decserver 300
vxt2000
ba350 scsi enclosure
dsrvb-a
lxy12
decserver 100,decserver 200dl, decserver 200md,
decserver 300 dsrvf-ba
dsrvf-b,rf-vx20a-m9, di-31cp1-a cpu ka41,lanbridge
150
P/N DEC 7876-AA dehub ax power supply
DSRVB-B,DSRVB-A, DEC REPEATER 350 ,P/N DERFVS240A
20
DESPR-AA THINWIRE REPEATER
DECMUX 300 P/N DM308-a,MUX SERVER 310 P/N DSRZC-B
MUXSERVER 300 P/N DSR2C-A
TERMINALS: VT220,VT320,VT330,vt330+,vt340,vt340+,vt420 $99,
vt510, vt520
VRM17-AA VRT19-DA VRT19-HA VR241-A VR299 VR290-DA have 200
spare lk450
PRINTERS: LA50
$50,LA70,la75$70,la75s-a2$110,la100$70,la210$99,la324 $300,
la424 $550,lno3$50,lno3+$75,DECWRITER III $170, RFLAIDR
$200,
lp27 $300, lp37,LQP45,lgo1,lg02,lg31
DRIVES :
rd53,rd54,tz30,tk50,tk70,tu81,tu81+,tz85,tz86,ra60,ra90
ese20-ba - 120mb ram memory drives 4
ra650-xa - 5 1.2 gig sdi drives 1 250 meg ra70
ra600 2 1.2 gig ra70
h7142 power supplies 6
micro technolory inc. stingray has 4 rackmount
stingray hard drive controllers 1 2.1 gig
seagate barracuda
10 hard drive enclosures
hsc50 2 sdi disk drive controllers
SYSTEMS:
vaxstation 4000 60
vx46k-ad
cpu ka46
rz 25e
video card 5020364-01 d3 5420366
ram 2 pieces of 5419103 5019079-01
vaxstation 4000 60
vx46k-ad
cpu ka46
tzk10-aa tape drive
2 hard drives rz 25e
video card 5020364-01 d3 5420365
ram 2 pieces of 5419145 5019144-01
microvax 3100 80
tz30
board 54-20652-01
rz26e hard drive
microvax 3100 40
tz30
54-20654-01 h02
rz 26e hard drive
on onboard ram no modules
microvax 3100 30
tz30
board 54-20654-01
on onboard ram no modules
microvax 3100
dj31esa-a-a01
tz30
54-18858-01
50-18905-01
54-18905-01
501982901
rz24-e
microvax 4000 600
tk70
128 meg ram ( 2 units l4002aa ms690-ca)
kfqsa
kzqsa
no hard drive
microvax 4000
6600r-b2
m9047
h7868-a
desqa-sk
ms650-bf
tk70 sf
tk70
dec 3000 400
pe401-cb
rz26
cpu kn15-ba
cd rom
vid 50-21142-01
ram 8 pieces of 5421139cl
vaxstation 8 meg ram modules mso2 p/n 54-16812-01
120
vax 4000-100a
vt1300 50
decsystem 5500
2200h-b9 series ba400
ms220-ba
m7639
kn220 m7637
kn220 m7638
2 rf72, tlz04 (dat) ,
vax 4000 300,vax 4000 200,microvax 3800,microvax
3400
microvax 3100
VAXSTATION 4000/VLC 24 MEG 20 INCH TRINITRON RZ23L HARD
DRIVE $
VAXSTATION 3100 M38 2 SCSI HARD DRIVES 20 INCH
TRINITRON......$
VAXSTATION 2000
decstation 2100 pm10a-ba
DS5000-200 ,ds500--125,ds5000-240,MICROVAX II
MISC
----
TK50 MEDIA(new)$5 used $3
DEC 16 BIT ETHERNET $5
DEC 8 BIT PDA508 $3
DEC DESTA
dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec
dec vax vax
We will beat any ad price on ibm equipment prices u.s $
SYSTEMS:
powerstation 220 type 7011
2.5 gig seagate barracuda
32 meg
powerstation 220 type 7011 50 units in stock
500 meg
32 meg
powerstation 340 type 7012
2 scsi drives p/n 55f9915
scsi bus extension fru 00g2721
token ring 74f8653
16 pieces of 4 meg 72 pin (on 2 cards 8 pieces each)
color card fru 71f1223
processor card fru 00g3149 cpu 37
powerstation 370 type 7012
2 scsi drives p/n 75g3628
scsi bus extension fru 00g2721
token ring 74f8653
64 meg
processor card fru 51g9441
powerstation 410
2 gig scsi drive
scsi bus extension fru 00g2721
token ring 74f8653
64 meg
color video fru 88g2749 609
token ring fru 7280422
powerstation 320
XSTATION 150 15 UNITS
XSTATION 120 100 UNITS
3com 3c319 rj45 and db9 isa 16 130 units
ibm auto 16/4 fru 9873456 rj45 approximately 200 units
isa 16
olicom 00055797-12671-73c-opin fcc id an055h6800 rj45 and db9
isa 16
dca 014253 rev a 500 units rj45 and db9 mca and isa
smc 8115t c d2 4996 400 units rj45 and db9 isa 16
madge smart at ringnode 152-034-04 152-028-14 100 units
intel rj45 and db9 isa 16 200 units
card swiper 4717 3
ibm 16/4 short card
ibm 5250 8 bit
hp jetdirect j2555-60003
hp jetdirect j2373-60001 db9
hp jetdirect ex j2383 db9 rj45 external unit with power supply
proteon 1392+ 16 bit isa tokenring
ibm powerstation 320h 32 meg 16 ports for terminals
ibm sierra xterminal model 120 8 megs ram p/n 950-000024-000
terminal ibm 3151, 3192,3196,3197,3471,3472
terminal ibm 3472 color (same tube /flyback) as 3477
terminal ibm 3477, 5085-1, 5272,3178c,
terminal ibm p/n 83x7944 color
controller ibm
3174-1r,3174-1l,3174-11r,3174-51r,3174-61r,3174-91r
mau ibm 3299 2 8 port coax
ibm 5242,4224 $200,4230,4234,4324,3812 2,3287, 5210 go2
ibm 8228 10 port token ring p/n 6091014 50
ibm irma2
ibm auto 16/4, ibm lanstreamer pci tokenring
lexmark 4109, 4029, 4039
proteon
7202,33g4389,6091014,4459,4869-009,4869,3174-g2454,3274-41d
5362,3268 2,4869-002,4869,3299-2,7010,3044-d02,9404 as400
23-p2899,3820,2380,2381,33g4389
madge token ring cards
mca network cards 16/4
mca adaptek scsi cards also future domain $20
assorted other microchannel cards
token ring cables
proteon cnx 500 and cnx 600 routers dual ethernet token ring
model
inkjet
------
kodak diconix inkjet portable - runs on batteries or adapter$19
hp thinkjet.................................................$19
hp deskjet..................................................$29
hp paintjetcolor continous feed ............................$39
hp paintjet xl - takes wide paper..........................$79
kodak 300w - takes wide paper--
epson sq2500 takes wide paper SUPER HIGH SPEED HUGE CARTRIDGE
dot matrix
----------
epson lq570 lq 570, fxl070 fx 1070
epson lq2500 color - computerized 7 layer form
(reg$1099)......$129
toshiba p341,p351...................................$call
mannesmann tally mt330, mt390 ,mt86, mt660, mt661, t6045
nec p9 color dot matrix commercial................
printronics mvp, p300, p600, 9012 (1200 lines per minute - WOW)
genicom 1010, 1020 , 3210 3820 3840
genicom line printers 4410xt, genicom 4410, genicom4490..$call
okidata 82,ml182,ml320,ml321,ml380,ml395,ml393+,ml591,ml2410
hp ruggedwriter high speed commercial dot matrix
accepts input from tray or tractor (reg $1500)...$199
fujitsu dl2400, 5600 and many genicom, datasouth,mannes tally,
tektronix phaser iipx, phaser cp, pahser 220, phaser iii, 4694
qms colorscript 100 model 10 serial parallel scsi
qms colorscript 230 11x17, magicolorcx color toner csl 1000-1
qms ps 2210 black and white 11x17 serial parralel scsi
50 tektronix toners reordr no. 016-0898-00
qmd colorscript 100 color toners 4 color $20 u.s
part number 1730451-013 $20 u.s.2
we will beat any ad price mac note the prices in u.s. $
---
mac laserwriter iint $59
mac laserwriter $29
nec postscript laser , 4 meg ram $49
hp paintjet 300 wide carriage color postscr inkjet $59
mac mono monitor $ 9 color 13 inch $19
20 inch trinitron monitor for mac $199
20 mono monitor for mac radius tpd/19 $49
radius pivot $55
scsi syquest 88 meg $25, scsi cd $10, scsi enclosure $8,
scsi ribbon cables $1, external cabels $5, terminator $5
old mac machines iicx etc $40 mac se $15
3com 3c509, 3c905
3480 TAPES NEW TENEX BRAND $3
QUALSTAR 6250 TAPE DRIVE (SCSI) $350
chipcom 5006c - 5000m-ctl
5104m-f1b
lan/wan optimizer series 5000 model 5010l p/n acx067g110001l-r
gandalf premier lanline 5220 p/n 7707z1
gandalf mux 2000 16 port 10
gandalf mmux 2000 8 port 10
gandalf swith mux 5
proteon cnx 500 router 3 , cnx 600 router 1 unit
newbridge 1032 mainstreet p/n 90-0533-01 channel banks 32 port
newbridge 1082 8 port
gandalf starmaster
lots of gandalf ldm and lds series modems lds120a,
lds120e,ldm309a, ldm409a
ibm 3174-11r, 3174-51r ibm 3174-61 ribm 3174-91r
intel satisfaction modems, satisfaction 200, 400, 400e ,
pcfm6401v, pccb6201a
bicc datanetworks thin ethernet repeater model # 1121-0 20
comterm c6274-201
dg 1348 as tape drive with wheels
dg mv4000 dc
digiboard 8 port isa bus $150
digiboard digichannel c/com-16
digital rflaidr looks like genicom c1
disk mini digital rl02
docking station compaq 2684
docking station nec op-560-4701
docking station texas instruments 2581447-0041 c2
docking station toshiba deskstation ii 10 u
dot matrix color nec p9xl
dot matrix oki 321 d2
dot matrixa centronics 359 p351 p353
dot matrixa dg 6494
dot matrixa dg 6594 c1
dotmatrixa dataproducts tcg 202 10u a2
dotmatrixa datasouth ds220, ds180
dotmatrixa dg 6594 c1
laser postscript, qms ps820 turbo , ps825 turbo
modem gandalf lds 100, lds120a,lds120e, lds300, lds 309a, lds289
modem gandalf lds 125, mlds, ld140,pacx2000, lds300, lds 389
modem motorola cdm264 modem
lattisnet 2510, 102, 3000
telex 87
wang 75lis12en
harris l191-s1
dest pcsan200
texas instrument silent 700
allied telesis centrecom 3008
sytek 20/100
npi 521
general datacom de-1
codex 2600
puredata pdc520a, pdc608a, pdc620a
comterm c6274-201
telex 076 controller
questronics cpa17
ast&t 6386 wgs
intergraph 340
datability vcp1000
css 486te-33
consultronics fdm-3
microtel bb5007-ca8575
control data corporation cyber 910
memorex telex 1374-51r
aries iii image analysis system dipix
telebit t2500
baytech printer controller
develcon 7330
byteway 2000
cimterm c6274-201
seikosha sbp-10ai
allied telesis 5000, 3025, 3024, 3008, 3008sl
data general mv 12000
memorex telex 2062
analogic 68
codex 6006
telenet tp3/11-3025
datawatch dwx86
canstar ncu 200-00-020
datasouth performax a600
dataproducts bp 2000, bp 1500, dp 1000
gandalf access server pcm2022
npm2021
lds2123e <----4
asm2081
gcm2091 <----3
sgm2094
motorola uds model 201b rm16m m
adic 530/h
allied telesis centre com 470
local data interlynx 3287
fifth generation systems lc-01
penril 2332-01
ostrocom e299 squeezplexor
gandalf minimau
synoptics lattisnet 102 powersupply
408 fault status
ncr 3000
canstar fibre optic hub
otc 2160
cisco igs-r multiprotocal router
qms csc-100
castelle lanpress 95054
honeywell hds2
3com 3c1351
3com linkbuilder ecs10 type 1200-1 with 12 port utp cards and
management card
motorola 6005
ods 296
telenet tp3/11-3025
delta data 8700t
memorex telex 2062
at&t 1600
ncr 3400
alpha industries um3000
system industries csr176700, csr176300, csr176200
fibrecom 9600r
chipcom 9314s-st fibre optic hub
sytek 2550
comterm dc8101-101
local data ld 3278
telebit t2sa
gandalf 3790z1
net 3com multiconnect repeater 10u p/n 3c588
net allied telisys centercom 810 (switch?)
net david systems 6102-01 40 port rck
net gandalf lds120, lds140, lds260, lds309, ldm309, ldm409, 9106,
2200226
net gandalf mux 2000 mmux2000
net gandalf 6808a rev d1
net gandalf 500540101 rev 1b
datability 500540101 rev 1b
net gandalf p/n 427421 mux?
net gandalf pacx 2000
net gandalf sm9600-d
net gandalf sm9600-oyr
net gandalf starmaster, access server xl
net gandalf swithmux 2000
net memotec mpac mp8002 60 port x25 switch multiprotocol
net memotec mpac sp8300
net memotek sp8000 18 port
net micom m2002
net newbridge mainstreet 1082 in box
net paradyne p9600
network memotek sp800 18 port
plotter calcomp plotmaster
plotter hp 7550a
protec bytelink plus 24 port peripheral sharing device 1 meg
p/n 24p/1m 50
puredata 12 port hub + 12 network cards $195
qms 4 color toner rolls 2 per box $80 per box p/n 1730451-013
ricoh 150 opc 20 $30
sony gdm-1962b $190 20 inch 1024x768
sony gdm-20d10 (sun) $250
tectronics hc02 video copy processor (mitsubishi p71u)
terminal memorex telex 1471 , 1472, 2391g
terminal tecktronics 4205 14'
terminal volker craig 6220
terminal wyse 30,50,60 75, 85,99gt,160, 185,285,325,350
terminal linc mc3, mc5
terminal televideo 905, 955, 965
terminal qume ,qvt31, qvt51, qvt-101, qvt101+
toner color tektronic 016-0898-0050 40u
adacom cp150+
shiva lanrover/8t
newbridge p/n 1032-8706-0259 32 port channel bank 2u
timeplex microplex x25 pad 24 port
newbridge 1032 mainstreet p/n 90-0533-31a
citoh ci4000, ci15000, c310
m3358a ,ibm 2381, 2391, 5202, 2178, 3192, 5202,
facit b3100, 4509, 1513
epson lq570, lq1170, fx1170, fax 1050, lq2550, lq2500, sq2500,
sq2550, etc
panasonic kxp1592, kxp1624,, raven pr248, pr9101
alps 324 printer for dec systems 50
rf delni with fibre optic interface 50
fibre optic tranciever (digital brand) 43
gandalf 500540101
datability 500540101
gandalf 6808a revd
intel netport 306515-004 token ring db9, 306514-003 ethernet
rj45 ,306482-004 ethernet aui
xircom pocket ethernet adapter II pe3-10bt
seiko smart label printer plus slp1000p slp1100
general datacom diz ai
general datacom dei
human design systems hds2000
memotec isu5600 v.35 dte
synoptics lattisnet model 2500
telebit netblazer st
emerald rap150-9000 tape drive
hp28681a 10:10 bridge lp
hemulex jetdirect netjet ethernet pwb-er2010276-01
hp jetdirect j2550,j2552,j2555,j2382
pacifac data jetcard/mio 8 serial 1 parallel
banyan jetdirect 6034100 20322e rj45 coax
asp serverjet asp sj400 4 rj45 or 8 rj45
datability vcp200
datability vcp1000
valtek pst250f 250 meg external tape parralel/serial
mita ldc550
3com h46891 ethernet card 16 bit
3com etherlink ii 16tp
3com elii/16 tp, el2tp 8 bit, etherlink 3c509c parralel tasking
adaptek mp401 autoswitch
hpiiisi i/o card 28644-60002
pacifac postscript for laserjet ii,iii pd-016907
ibm mca microchannel video xga-2 fru 8tf4774aha1640 aha-1640
adaptek isa 16 bit aha1542
puredate arcnet pdc508a
ascend mb4bri option nx56isdn 4 x 128k ----8x64k
memotek da3224
intel etherexpress 16tp 16 bit ethernet card
pioneer drm-604x 6 cd changer scsi
telenet to8010-16
seikosha sbp-10a1
xyplex maxserver 6020
qume qvt 31,101,101+, 102, 203+
datawatch vm14
volker craig vc8325, vc6220
AT&T 705 MT
mai basic four 4313
memotec mc504
canon
From nobody at dizum.com Fri Jan 5 17:40:03 2001
From: nobody at dizum.com (Nomen Nescio)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 02:40:03 +0100 (CET)
Subject: Timelyness
Message-ID: <4db87ee787a0859efc5e1f4f993ac4e4@dizum.com>
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From han_don8 at hotmail.com Fri Jan 5 18:53:31 2001
From: han_don8 at hotmail.com (han don)
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 02:53:31 -0000
Subject: Solution to riddle 666 clear not cryptic Jah guidance
Message-ID:
This is the riddle to the mystery of the beast numbered 666.
In the Book of Kings (and 2nd ChronicleV9:13) Solomon counted out his gold
and it measured 666 cubits.
The calf was the creature/beast made out of gold (and precious stones) at
the foot of the mountain when Moses descended. The calf being symbolic of
our unhealthy craving for unecessary commodities such as gold, gems, milk
and blood.
The gold standard is used in the world economy ( no-one shall be able to buy
or sell without the mark of the beast.)
The great whore is symbolic of individuals and institutions which perpetuate
the myth/illusion that you somehow need gold or diamonds to sanctify a
marriage, you don't. The vow is sacred and sanctified by our honour and
faith in God. Bringing token payments of gold and gems into the act sustains
the corrupt and exploitative jem and gold trade. Furthermore it is in
essence the same principle as the prostitution act of material for
affection.
The manifestation of all these false values display their destructive and
corrupt nature. Rainforests and their irreplacable, incomparable beauty,
housing Gods finest creations are being massacred at a frightening rate the
main reason being to feed cattle and to prospect and exploit natural
resources.
The gold and diamond industry creates a perverse and inhuman imbalance of
wealth (Sierra Leone's bloody civil war was fought for control of the
diamond trade.)
The world economy with its unfair trade policies and debt traps (using the
gold standard) has created a world where 40,000 people AT LEAST die daily
unnecessarily due to hunger.
This theory holds up in the Chinese Bible or 'I Ching' also where the
number666 refers to the mother. As we know the cow acts as a mother to
humans by suckling human children (a perversion of Gods laws of nature.)
Here also the quality of the 666 reference is receptive again gold is
receptive and the hexogram is bottomless symbolising the bottomless pit.
This is THE SOLUTION to the riddle. Whether you choose to believe or not is
up to you but this is IT. If you have faith in God and the Bible the command
therein is to withdraw and refuse to trade in such commodities. THis is not
just religeous fervor it is the important realisation which is crucial to
the survival of our species and the living planet itself which as it stands
is on the brink of annhilation.
I dislike to use strong language but you are warned as of NOW!
This was confirmed to me when the 8 angels of the revelations appeared to me
(and no I wasn't on drugs). Pass this info on and spread the solution.Don't
be fooled into disbelieving because of the simplistic nature of this
solution as it's simplicity is its greatest strenght.
May God guide and protect !
I urge you do not hesitate to pass this info on.
Amen.
(The fruit of the knowledge of good n evil in line with the fairly universal
law -actions which provide pleasure and nourishment to others are in
essence healthy and nourishment to the self- excludes all true tree fruits,
therefore the only fruit borne by a tree which is destructive must be the
friuthead of parasitic fungi. This therefore is the fruit of knowledge and a
warning to the use of fungi. From hallucinogens to yeast in bread (again all
referred to in REV: maddening wine of impure passion -this also referring to
the obvious 'bitter sex'). Note Christ never ate bread with yeast in fact
all he ate was fruit and grains (unleavened). Not fish as is widely
misconcieved in fact when he was being followed by the crowds he preached
and then with the 'miraculous' catch gave people the option stay and eat of
the flesh or come and follow him. AS for the feeding of the 5,000 with the
few loaves and fishes he fed them with his words and satisfied them and the
uneaten bread and fish was returned to the basket this then fed the fish
keeping them at the shore while the boats fished hence no catch and some
more snacks of food into the water as the boat resailed brought them out
again into deep water- hence the miraculous catch.)
He holy grail has also been revealed to me but is too precious to reveal
yet.
more info at- http://realjesus.homestead.com
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
From pcmontecucchi at compuserve.com Sat Jan 6 00:26:59 2001
From: pcmontecucchi at compuserve.com (Pier Carlo Montecucchi)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 03:26:59 -0500
Subject: Snowhite and the Seven Dwarfs - The REAL story!
References: <200101052349.SAA23861@domains.invweb.net>
Message-ID: <012901c077ba$dc4c8a80$eec11d97@seminole>
I have sent a copy of this message to a cyber crime officer in Tallahassee
FL.
----- Original Message -----
X-Loop: openpgp.net
From: "Hahaha"
To: "Multiple recipients of list"
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2001 12:49 AM
Subject: Snowhite and the Seven Dwarfs - The REAL story!
>
> Today, Snowhite was turning 18. The 7 Dwarfs always where very educated
and
> polite with Snowhite. When they go out work at mornign, they promissed a
> *huge* surprise. Snowhite was anxious. Suddlently, the door open, and the
Seven
> Dwarfs enter...
>
>
From reeza at flex.com Sat Jan 6 00:37:31 2001
From: reeza at flex.com (Reese)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 03:37:31 -0500
Subject: Snowhite and the Seven Dwarfs - The REAL story!
In-Reply-To: <012901c077ba$dc4c8a80$eec11d97@seminole>
References: <200101052349.SAA23861@domains.invweb.net>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010105223559.00bd9a00@flex.com>
Why? sexyfun.net traces to a .au domain, and Graeme Platt is already tired
of hearing from me.
At 03:26 AM 1/6/01 -0500, Pier Carlo Montecucchi wrote:
>I have sent a copy of this message to a cyber crime officer in Tallahassee
>FL.
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>X-Loop: openpgp.net
>From: "Hahaha"
>To: "Multiple recipients of list"
>Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2001 12:49 AM
>Subject: Snowhite and the Seven Dwarfs - The REAL story!
>
>
>>
>> Today, Snowhite was turning 18. The 7 Dwarfs always where very educated
>and
>> polite with Snowhite. When they go out work at mornign, they promissed a
>> *huge* surprise. Snowhite was anxious. Suddlently, the door open, and the
>Seven
>> Dwarfs enter...
>>
>>
From nobody at dizum.com Fri Jan 5 18:40:09 2001
From: nobody at dizum.com (Nomen Nescio)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 03:40:09 +0100 (CET)
Subject: Powdered Sugar
Message-ID:
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From barryjohnson at themail.com Sat Jan 6 06:07:07 2001
From: barryjohnson at themail.com (Barry Johnson)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 06:07:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: YOU WON'T GIVE UP !!!
Message-ID: <419.436897.37642269barryjohnson@themail.com>
Hello Friend,
In order to succeed in an on-line business, you need to know these 5 things:
#1. In order to make SALES, you need TRAFFIC to your site.
#2. Success with SEARCH ENGINES and F.F.A. LINKS is ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE.
#3. YOU are 1 of HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of people who received this ad.
#4. It cost me NOTHING to reach you with this ad.
#5. This ad earns me a FULL SECOND INCOME.
******* IT IS A FACT THAT E-MAIL MARKETING WORKS !!! ******
I have been working online now for about 3 years. I have tried everything from
F.F.A. links to classified posts and banner exchange programs...all unsuccessfully.
Then it hit me. I needed people to FOCUS on my ad ALONE and without distraction.
So I began to compile thousands of targeted e-mail addresses and I used a free
bulk e-mail program to send my ad out.
$$$$ JACKPOT $$$$$
IN ONE DAY I ACQUIRED OVER 3,000 HITS TO MY WEB SITE !!!
++++++++++YOUR SEARCH IS OVER+++++++++
Last week, I successfully extracted over 300,000 FRESH EMAIL ADDRESSES from
people all over the country, who have expressed interest in On-line Business
Opportunities.
$$$$$ ((((((((( THAT'S OVER 300,000 TARGETED LEADS !!! ))))))) $$$$$$
Imagine how many hits you would get if only 1% of these people were interested in
your offer. Lets see...
300,000 x .01 = 3,000 HITS TO YOUR WEB SITE !!!!
{{{{{ STOP WAISTING YOUR TIME ON PROGRAMS THAT DON"T WORK !!! }}}}}
****** THESE PEOPLE WANT TO HEAR ABOUT YOUR OFFER !!! ******
We not only believe that you will get thousands of hits to your website, we
guarantee it !! It's easy to give a guarantee like this because these people want to
do business with you !!!
Are you ready for a TRAFFIC EXPLOSION ???
http://emailexplosion.iwarp.com
DISCLAIMER: This e-mail was sent to you because you or someone who uses
your computer has expressed an interest in business opportunities. We apologize
if you are not interested in our ad. To be permanantly removed from our database,
kindly reply to this e-mail with the words "REMOVE ME" in the subject line. Your
name will be promptly removed from our database.
-God Bless !!!
From ichudov at algebra.com Sat Jan 6 07:14:15 2001
From: ichudov at algebra.com (Igor Chudov)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 09:14:15 -0600 (CST)
Subject: remailers still operating?
Message-ID: <200101061514.f06FEGa03359@manifold.algebra.com>
I would like to have some fun on usenet, but I lost track of the current
state of anon remailers. Are they still operational?
- Igor.
From chilibean6 at home.com Sat Jan 6 07:28:06 2001
From: chilibean6 at home.com (Jose Lopez Jr.)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 09:28:06 -0600
Subject: SB3100 internal menu?
Message-ID: <000f01c077f5$44cdba40$a6ab0e18@hmmnd1.in.home.com>
Did you ever find out the program to acces the cable modem?
If so, can you email me the answer.
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From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Sat Jan 6 07:52:11 2001
From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 09:52:11 -0600 (CST)
Subject: update.519 (fwd)
Message-ID:
____________________________________________________________________
Before a larger group can see the virtue of an idea, a
smaller group must first understand it.
"Stranger Suns"
George Zebrowski
The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate
Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com
www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087
-====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
--------------------------------------------------------------------
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 13:25:48 -0500 (EST)
From: AIP listserver
To: physnews-mailing at aip.org
Subject: update.519
PHYSICS NEWS UPDATE
The American Institute of Physics Bulletin of Physics News
Number 519 January 4, 2001 by Phillip F. Schewe and Ben
Stein
PHYSICS NEWS STORIES OF THE YEAR. Our top three
stories represent one definite sighting and two near misses: the
discovery of the tau neutrino (Update 495) and the report of
statistically-poor but fascinating evidence for quark-gluon plasma
(Update 470) and the Higgs boson (502). Other top physics
events for the year 2000 include (in roughly chronological order
through the months) the resolution of the astrophysical x-ray
background into discrete sources (467); the ability to guide atoms
around "atom chips" (469, 486); all-optical NMR (472); quantum
entanglement of 4 ions in a trap (475); the fabrication of a "left-
handed" composite material, one possessing both a negative
electrical permittivity and a negative magnetic permeability (476);
the best map yet of the cosmic microwave background, showing
that the curvature of the universe is zero (479, 481); the
observation of quantum heat, particles of thermal energy moving
down wires (481); the best measurement, by a factor of 10, of the
gravitational constant G (482), with a corresponding adjustment in
the mass of the Earth; the first-time measurement of gravity at the
micron distance scale as part of the search for extra dimensions
(483); the quantum superposition of superfluid currents flowing in
both directions through a SQUID (492); a record number of
daughter particles made in heavy-ion collisions at RHIC (505);
numerous advances in quantum cryptography (480); light slowed
to 1 mph (472); advances in delivering drugs and genes with
ultrasound-activated bubbles (487); and the discovery that
entangled photons can defeat the diffraction limit (503).
NONCLASSICAL LIGHT. A feature of quantum theory is that
objects should have both particle and wave properties. Thus,
things usually encountered as particles such as electrons or atoms
show their quantum, or nonclassical, nature in the form of
wavelike effects. Conversely, light, which can usually be
described by a wave equation, shows its nonclassical side by
acting like a particle. In most optics experiments, even those
involving lasers, the light produces only classical effects which
can be described using 19th century electromagnetism. For
example, a grocery scanner diode laser emits about 10^15 photons
per second. When such a stream encounters a half-silvered
mirror, half of the light will be reflected, and half transmitted.
With so many photons, the individual particle nature is hidden
when the photons are detected at photodiodes sitting behind each
exit port of the beamsplitter. If the original laser beam is replaced
with a source of single photons, then the story is different: a lone
photon might well have an equal chance of going towards either
detector, but it will ultimately register in only one, a sure sign of
quantum behavior. One can probe these issues more deeply by
using entangled photon pairs. Kevin Resch, Jeff Lundeen, and
Aephraim Steinberg at the University of Toronto send ultraviolet
(UV) light into a special crystal in which a single UV photon can
produce two red photons in a process called down-conversion.
One of the red photons is vertically polarized and the other is
horizontally polarized, and therefore the photons can be time-
delayed relative to one another by varying the thickness of
birefringent material (which can swivel a light wave's orientation)
traversed by the photon. By adjusting the delay between the
photons, the researchers were able to change the number of
photon pairs emerging from an interferometer without changing
the intensity, or brightness, of the beam. Owing to the intrinsic
nonlinear response of the detectors this quantum interference
effect then became apparent in the counting rate at a single
detector (an effect never before observed) and not just in the
coincidence rate between a pair of photodetectors. The
researchers believe that the ability to observe such nonlinear
responses in photodetection at the single photon level may be
useful to the study of decoherence in photodetection and for
providing an experimental basis for developing a more accurate
theoretical description for photodetection. (Physical Review A, 1
February 2001; Kevin Resch contact: 416-946-3162,
resch at physics.utoronto.ca.)
From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Sat Jan 6 07:14:58 2001
From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 10:14:58 -0500 (EST)
Subject: FWD from Wilfred@Cryogen.com: NSA abandons wondrous stuff
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:
On Fri, 5 Jan 2001, James B. DiGriz wrote:
>
> I highly recommend anyone go see it if they get the chance. I also welcome any
> corrections or additions to 30-year old schoolboy memories.
>
> jbdigriz
>
Ok, I'll correct myself then. It never was a commercial satellite
communications center, but the 85 ft. VHF dishes sure could pick up commercial
traffic. It did do telemetry for a lot of vital birds, too.
It was the 2nd of NASA's STDN (Spaceflight Tracking and Data Network) VHF
telemetry stations, opening in 1963. The first was outside Fairbanks,
Alaska. Mostly for unmanned LEO satellites like GEOS-3, but also used when
needed on manned missions like Apollo-Soyuz. Data could be routed in real-time
to other NASA telemetry stations like Wallops Flight Center for digitizing and
processing, or taped and mailed. So there were some serious phone lines
running into the place even then.
It was mainly used for NASA missions, then, and some DOD stuff. I'm
sure some other TLA's had some presence, as well. You can easily
see why the NSA would be interested in it, at any rate, given what we know
about Echelon now. And it was already built to the nines, isolated,
secluded, and crawling with security systems.
Pisgah Astronomical Research Institute has a website at
http://www.pari.edu that has more informatation and lots of pictures. See
especially http://www.pari.edu/ToursHistory.htm.
jbdigriz
From info at domain4u.st Sat Jan 6 13:46:17 2001
From: info at domain4u.st (info at domain4u.st)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 15:46:17 -0600
Subject: Lock in your domain name now!
Message-ID: <200101062146.f06LkHA00504@ak47.algebra.com>
Register your domain name as a .ST domain too!
Just go to: http://www.nic.st
.ST stands for:
.Strasse, .Street, .SiTe Domain ... etc.
- Take care of your trademark and your domain name!
Secure the domain name in a minute!
Registration of .ST Domain
1 year: $35 USD
3 year: $75 USD
5 year: $100 USD
Register at:
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Need to use it today or tomorrow? - No problem! We point it to your
or your present website or e-mail in some hours. Just choose our Host
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And remember - Domains are forever
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Anybody, for example any person, company or organization in the world
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The .SiTe Domain
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******************************************************************
UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS NEWSLETTER
Please go to: http://www.nic.st/unsubscribe
******************************************************************
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http://www.nic.st/saotome/index.html
Policies and Rules:
http://www.nic.st/rules.html
Terms for payment:
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******************************************************************
From mati99 at interklub.pl Sat Jan 6 07:43:57 2001
From: mati99 at interklub.pl (Mateusz Ziolek)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 16:43:57 +0100 (CET)
Subject: REMOVE
In-Reply-To: <200101060647.WAA17659@toad.com>
Message-ID:
Pozdrawiam
Mateusz Ziolek
On Sat, 6 Jan 2001 p.txt at toad.com wrote:
> exporter deals systems 25cents/pound printers 12 cents/pound
> we can supply you equipment by the piece/pallette or container
>
> DO NOT press reply to this email-for more info call 514-744-9665
> or check our website at http www.merasel.com which has a
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>
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>
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>
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> annex cm1009e47
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>
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>
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>
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> hp 9000 800/140 857s
> (upgrade a2464a)
> a1703-60022
> 28696-60001
> 28640-60001
> gpib
> 802.3
> scsi (se) parallel
> c1504b 4mm dat drive
> c2474s 2 units
> 1150-1865
>
> advancestack 27288a router 430, ROUTER 230, ROUTER 440
> hp28673a bridge
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> hp 2563c
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> jetdirect j2550 j2552 j2371 j2555 jetdirect ex etc
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> 27286a router tr (cisco 4000 equivalent)
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> 28674A BRIDGE
> 28688B HUB
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> 27270A ROUTER
> CARDS : ENET 27271
> SYNC 27270
> SYSI/O
>
> hp 9000 series 700 128 meg a1421x a2278b
> eisa card #1 (looks like a digiboard ) bit 3 computer corporation
> model 487-1-201
> eisa card #2 fddi fibre optic transciever crescendo
> communications model
>
> es-9211-xf
> eisa card #3 daughter board of above card
> hp ux 4 cd set release 9.0 part #b2826-13681
> $call have 2 in stock
>
> 20 inch trinitron for the above (manufactured sept 1994) $400
>
> hp 28682a fibreoptic hub plus
> for hp dat drives and auotoloaders check our dat section
>
> iiisi jetdirect for banyan rj45 and coax
> rj45 jetdirect for hp III
> coax jetdirect for hp III
> jetdircet combo for iiisi/ivsi
>
> !!!!!!! HP RUGGEDWRITER $190
> hp apollo 400 16 meg 425 hard drive $400
> hp 20inch and 17 inch trinitrons
> 500 NEW hp II and III trays
> 60 NEW boxed HP IV multitrays
> 200 NEW HP 3si/4si trays
> hp under sheet feeder for hp IIP/IIIp
> Terminals HP 700/92,700/22, 700/94,700/96es
> HP 98578
> DOT MATRIX HP 2631G
> DOT MATRIX HP2563A
> HP 7958
> INKJET HP PAINTJET Xl
> PLOTTER HP 7550A plotter , 7475a, draftmaster, draftmaster ii
> PLOTTER PENS FOR HP (VACUUM SEALED SETS ) $5
> SYSTEM HP 7936
> SYSTEM HP MICRO X3 3000
>
> TAPE DRIVE HP 9144
> TERMINAL HP 35731A
> TERMINAL HPD1181E
> HP LASERJET I $40 HP LASERJET II $80 HP LASERJET IID $130
> HP LASERJET IIID $195 HP LASERJET IIISI 17PPM $370
> HP ivSI 17PPM 600DPI HP LASERJET 2000 40 PPM 11x17
> 98546a
> draftmaster sx plotter
> draftmaster I plotter 7595
> draftmaster II plotter 7576a
> 2345a dtc
> 2463a
> laserjet 2000
> hp 4955a logic analyser
>
> DAT and tape drives Prices in U.S. $
> I WILL BEAT ALL AD PRICES ON DAT DRIVES !!!!
>
> The following list is incomplete for items not listed please call
> 514-744-9665
>
> scsi ribbon cable $1
> scsi centronics to db25 $5
> scsi mini to mini $10
> scsi centronics to centronics $5
>
> SUPER SPECIAL EXABYTE EXB8200 8MM DAT $59 $u.s.
> adaptek 1522 scsi controller $10
> adaptek 1542 scsi controller $15
> future domain scsi controller $10
> exabyte exb210 autochanger 600 gig !!!!!!! $1900 u.s.
> dlt 20 gig $350
> dlt 30 gig $450
> dlt loader 280 gig $4000
> hp 35470 4 gig 4mm dat $99
> 150 meg archive, wangtek (5150) $25 case $5 extra
> archive 150e, archive 2525s ,archive 4320nt,archive
> 4324np,archive 4350xt
> conner ctd8000e-s
> hp c1553 dd3 4mm autoloader $299 96 gig
> emerald vas026 9000
> exabyte ex4200c
> exabyte exb8500 8mm $129, exabyte exb8205 8mm $149
> exabyte exb8205xle 8mm $169
> exabyte exb8505xls 8mm 14 gig $399
> exabyte exb10-chs 8mm 10 tape autochanger , exabyte exb10-chse
> hp 1300s $99
> hp model 35470 $99 2 gig 4 mm
> hp model c1504 $299
> legacy 500s $50, legacy 525s $50, legacy 2000s $99 2 gig
> legacy 2200d 4mm 2 gig $59, legacy 4000d 4mm 4 gig $99,
> legacy 8000d 4mm 8 gig $199
> sony sdt 500
> seagate ctl 96gs 96 gig 4 tape autochanger
> trimm da5
> tecmar datavault 4000
> wangdat 3200, wangtek 6130 hs $99
> external enclosure $8
> qualstar 6250 9 track $480
> dec tu81 $400
> 6250 tapes New $5 Used $1
> 8mm 5 gig tapes used $3
> 3480 tapes new $3 used $1
> 6525 tapes new $3 used $1
> tk50 tapes new $3
>
> call 514-744-9665 we accept amex call 514-744-9665
> 514-744-9665
> dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec
> dec vax vax
> dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec
> dec vax vax
>
> Digital Equipment - All prices in U.S. $
>
> New arrivals: vax 4105a
> rz27 disk
> 128 meg
> cd rom
> vaxstation 4000 60 (35 units)
> 16 meg
> rz23
> rz26
> vrt19-ha (20 inch trinitron color)
> vaxstation 4000 90
> 16 meg
> rz23
> rz26
> vrt19-ha (20 inch trinitron color)
> vax 3100 90
> vax 3100 80
> tf86 tape drives (dlt)
> tf85 tape drives (dlt)
> 280 gig dlt loader
> dsrvg-ma decserver 90l+
> dehub-ax
> 1 detmm-m decrepeater 900 tm
> 1 dmhub-mb
> decnis 600
> dex2r-z routeabout access ew
> dex2r-m routeabout access ew
> dez8r-p routeabout central ew
> Networking: dsrvh-n decserver 90m
> h7082-88
> decserver 700 $475 8 port dsrvw-aa
> decserver 550 dsrvs-c2b03 with multiple cxy08 card
> pmad-a p/n 54-19874-01
> pmaz p/n 54-19876-01
> rf-delni -aa (fibre optic output)
> decrepeater 90T detmr-m $150 ea
> decrepeater 90T+ detmr-n $150 ea
> decserver 90l+ dsrvg-ma $225
> decbridge 90+ dewgb-m
> dehub 90 ax 1
> dehua-nb
> DESPR-AA,PC100-B,DECROUTER 250,LANBRIDGE
> 150,LANBRIDGE 100
> DEC200 NICS, pm37b-by, delni-ba, ab74100b7c,
> dsrva-aa,dempr-aa
> h7317,pm20b-ag, dsrvb-aa,lanbridge debet-ac
> 70-19062-01, 70-31353-01, devp03, dvrvb-b, demsa-aa
> decserver 300
> vxt2000
> ba350 scsi enclosure
> dsrvb-a
> lxy12
> decserver 100,decserver 200dl, decserver 200md,
> decserver 300 dsrvf-ba
> dsrvf-b,rf-vx20a-m9, di-31cp1-a cpu ka41,lanbridge
> 150
> P/N DEC 7876-AA dehub ax power supply
> DSRVB-B,DSRVB-A, DEC REPEATER 350 ,P/N DERFVS240A
> 20
> DESPR-AA THINWIRE REPEATER
> DECMUX 300 P/N DM308-a,MUX SERVER 310 P/N DSRZC-B
>
> MUXSERVER 300 P/N DSR2C-A
>
>
> TERMINALS: VT220,VT320,VT330,vt330+,vt340,vt340+,vt420 $99,
> vt510, vt520
> VRM17-AA VRT19-DA VRT19-HA VR241-A VR299 VR290-DA have 200
> spare lk450
>
> PRINTERS: LA50
> $50,LA70,la75$70,la75s-a2$110,la100$70,la210$99,la324 $300,
> la424 $550,lno3$50,lno3+$75,DECWRITER III $170, RFLAIDR
> $200,
> lp27 $300, lp37,LQP45,lgo1,lg02,lg31
>
> DRIVES :
> rd53,rd54,tz30,tk50,tk70,tu81,tu81+,tz85,tz86,ra60,ra90
> ese20-ba - 120mb ram memory drives 4
> ra650-xa - 5 1.2 gig sdi drives 1 250 meg ra70
> ra600 2 1.2 gig ra70
> h7142 power supplies 6
> micro technolory inc. stingray has 4 rackmount
> stingray hard drive controllers 1 2.1 gig
> seagate barracuda
> 10 hard drive enclosures
> hsc50 2 sdi disk drive controllers
>
> SYSTEMS:
> vaxstation 4000 60
> vx46k-ad
> cpu ka46
> rz 25e
> video card 5020364-01 d3 5420366
> ram 2 pieces of 5419103 5019079-01
>
> vaxstation 4000 60
> vx46k-ad
> cpu ka46
> tzk10-aa tape drive
> 2 hard drives rz 25e
> video card 5020364-01 d3 5420365
> ram 2 pieces of 5419145 5019144-01
>
>
> microvax 3100 80
> tz30
> board 54-20652-01
> rz26e hard drive
>
> microvax 3100 40
> tz30
> 54-20654-01 h02
> rz 26e hard drive
> on onboard ram no modules
>
> microvax 3100 30
> tz30
> board 54-20654-01
> on onboard ram no modules
>
> microvax 3100
> dj31esa-a-a01
> tz30
> 54-18858-01
> 50-18905-01
> 54-18905-01
> 501982901
> rz24-e
>
> microvax 4000 600
> tk70
> 128 meg ram ( 2 units l4002aa ms690-ca)
> kfqsa
> kzqsa
> no hard drive
>
> microvax 4000
> 6600r-b2
> m9047
> h7868-a
> desqa-sk
> ms650-bf
> tk70 sf
> tk70
>
>
> dec 3000 400
> pe401-cb
> rz26
> cpu kn15-ba
> cd rom
> vid 50-21142-01
> ram 8 pieces of 5421139cl
>
> vaxstation 8 meg ram modules mso2 p/n 54-16812-01
> 120
> vax 4000-100a
> vt1300 50
> decsystem 5500
> 2200h-b9 series ba400
> ms220-ba
> m7639
> kn220 m7637
> kn220 m7638
> 2 rf72, tlz04 (dat) ,
> vax 4000 300,vax 4000 200,microvax 3800,microvax
> 3400
> microvax 3100
> VAXSTATION 4000/VLC 24 MEG 20 INCH TRINITRON RZ23L HARD
> DRIVE $
> VAXSTATION 3100 M38 2 SCSI HARD DRIVES 20 INCH
> TRINITRON......$
> VAXSTATION 2000
> decstation 2100 pm10a-ba
> DS5000-200 ,ds500--125,ds5000-240,MICROVAX II
>
> MISC
> ----
> TK50 MEDIA(new)$5 used $3
> DEC 16 BIT ETHERNET $5
> DEC 8 BIT PDA508 $3
> DEC DESTA
>
> dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec
> dec vax vax
>
>
> We will beat any ad price on ibm equipment prices u.s $
>
> SYSTEMS:
> powerstation 220 type 7011
> 2.5 gig seagate barracuda
> 32 meg
> powerstation 220 type 7011 50 units in stock
> 500 meg
> 32 meg
>
> powerstation 340 type 7012
> 2 scsi drives p/n 55f9915
> scsi bus extension fru 00g2721
> token ring 74f8653
> 16 pieces of 4 meg 72 pin (on 2 cards 8 pieces each)
> color card fru 71f1223
> processor card fru 00g3149 cpu 37
>
> powerstation 370 type 7012
> 2 scsi drives p/n 75g3628
> scsi bus extension fru 00g2721
> token ring 74f8653
> 64 meg
> processor card fru 51g9441
>
> powerstation 410
> 2 gig scsi drive
> scsi bus extension fru 00g2721
> token ring 74f8653
> 64 meg
> color video fru 88g2749 609
> token ring fru 7280422
>
> powerstation 320
> XSTATION 150 15 UNITS
> XSTATION 120 100 UNITS
> 3com 3c319 rj45 and db9 isa 16 130 units
> ibm auto 16/4 fru 9873456 rj45 approximately 200 units
> isa 16
> olicom 00055797-12671-73c-opin fcc id an055h6800 rj45 and db9
> isa 16
> dca 014253 rev a 500 units rj45 and db9 mca and isa
> smc 8115t c d2 4996 400 units rj45 and db9 isa 16
> madge smart at ringnode 152-034-04 152-028-14 100 units
> intel rj45 and db9 isa 16 200 units
> card swiper 4717 3
> ibm 16/4 short card
> ibm 5250 8 bit
> hp jetdirect j2555-60003
> hp jetdirect j2373-60001 db9
> hp jetdirect ex j2383 db9 rj45 external unit with power supply
> proteon 1392+ 16 bit isa tokenring
> ibm powerstation 320h 32 meg 16 ports for terminals
> ibm sierra xterminal model 120 8 megs ram p/n 950-000024-000
> terminal ibm 3151, 3192,3196,3197,3471,3472
> terminal ibm 3472 color (same tube /flyback) as 3477
> terminal ibm 3477, 5085-1, 5272,3178c,
> terminal ibm p/n 83x7944 color
> controller ibm
> 3174-1r,3174-1l,3174-11r,3174-51r,3174-61r,3174-91r
> mau ibm 3299 2 8 port coax
> ibm 5242,4224 $200,4230,4234,4324,3812 2,3287, 5210 go2
> ibm 8228 10 port token ring p/n 6091014 50
> ibm irma2
> ibm auto 16/4, ibm lanstreamer pci tokenring
> lexmark 4109, 4029, 4039
> proteon
> 7202,33g4389,6091014,4459,4869-009,4869,3174-g2454,3274-41d
> 5362,3268 2,4869-002,4869,3299-2,7010,3044-d02,9404 as400
> 23-p2899,3820,2380,2381,33g4389
> madge token ring cards
> mca network cards 16/4
> mca adaptek scsi cards also future domain $20
> assorted other microchannel cards
> token ring cables
> proteon cnx 500 and cnx 600 routers dual ethernet token ring
> model
>
> inkjet
> ------
> kodak diconix inkjet portable - runs on batteries or adapter$19
> hp thinkjet.................................................$19
> hp deskjet..................................................$29
> hp paintjetcolor continous feed ............................$39
> hp paintjet xl - takes wide paper..........................$79
> kodak 300w - takes wide paper--
> epson sq2500 takes wide paper SUPER HIGH SPEED HUGE CARTRIDGE
>
> dot matrix
> ----------
> epson lq570 lq 570, fxl070 fx 1070
> epson lq2500 color - computerized 7 layer form
> (reg$1099)......$129
> toshiba p341,p351...................................$call
> mannesmann tally mt330, mt390 ,mt86, mt660, mt661, t6045
> nec p9 color dot matrix commercial................
> printronics mvp, p300, p600, 9012 (1200 lines per minute - WOW)
> genicom 1010, 1020 , 3210 3820 3840
> genicom line printers 4410xt, genicom 4410, genicom4490..$call
> okidata 82,ml182,ml320,ml321,ml380,ml395,ml393+,ml591,ml2410
> hp ruggedwriter high speed commercial dot matrix
> accepts input from tray or tractor (reg $1500)...$199
> fujitsu dl2400, 5600 and many genicom, datasouth,mannes tally,
> tektronix phaser iipx, phaser cp, pahser 220, phaser iii, 4694
> qms colorscript 100 model 10 serial parallel scsi
> qms colorscript 230 11x17, magicolorcx color toner csl 1000-1
> qms ps 2210 black and white 11x17 serial parralel scsi
> 50 tektronix toners reordr no. 016-0898-00
> qmd colorscript 100 color toners 4 color $20 u.s
> part number 1730451-013 $20 u.s.2
>
> we will beat any ad price mac note the prices in u.s. $
> ---
> mac laserwriter iint $59
> mac laserwriter $29
> nec postscript laser , 4 meg ram $49
> hp paintjet 300 wide carriage color postscr inkjet $59
> mac mono monitor $ 9 color 13 inch $19
> 20 inch trinitron monitor for mac $199
> 20 mono monitor for mac radius tpd/19 $49
> radius pivot $55
> scsi syquest 88 meg $25, scsi cd $10, scsi enclosure $8,
> scsi ribbon cables $1, external cabels $5, terminator $5
> old mac machines iicx etc $40 mac se $15
>
> 3com 3c509, 3c905
> 3480 TAPES NEW TENEX BRAND $3
> QUALSTAR 6250 TAPE DRIVE (SCSI) $350
> chipcom 5006c - 5000m-ctl
> 5104m-f1b
> lan/wan optimizer series 5000 model 5010l p/n acx067g110001l-r
> gandalf premier lanline 5220 p/n 7707z1
> gandalf mux 2000 16 port 10
> gandalf mmux 2000 8 port 10
> gandalf swith mux 5
> proteon cnx 500 router 3 , cnx 600 router 1 unit
> newbridge 1032 mainstreet p/n 90-0533-01 channel banks 32 port
> newbridge 1082 8 port
> gandalf starmaster
> lots of gandalf ldm and lds series modems lds120a,
> lds120e,ldm309a, ldm409a
> ibm 3174-11r, 3174-51r ibm 3174-61 ribm 3174-91r
> intel satisfaction modems, satisfaction 200, 400, 400e ,
> pcfm6401v, pccb6201a
> bicc datanetworks thin ethernet repeater model # 1121-0 20
> comterm c6274-201
> dg 1348 as tape drive with wheels
> dg mv4000 dc
> digiboard 8 port isa bus $150
> digiboard digichannel c/com-16
> digital rflaidr looks like genicom c1
> disk mini digital rl02
> docking station compaq 2684
> docking station nec op-560-4701
> docking station texas instruments 2581447-0041 c2
> docking station toshiba deskstation ii 10 u
> dot matrix color nec p9xl
> dot matrix oki 321 d2
> dot matrixa centronics 359 p351 p353
> dot matrixa dg 6494
> dot matrixa dg 6594 c1
> dotmatrixa dataproducts tcg 202 10u a2
> dotmatrixa datasouth ds220, ds180
> dotmatrixa dg 6594 c1
> laser postscript, qms ps820 turbo , ps825 turbo
> modem gandalf lds 100, lds120a,lds120e, lds300, lds 309a, lds289
> modem gandalf lds 125, mlds, ld140,pacx2000, lds300, lds 389
> modem motorola cdm264 modem
> lattisnet 2510, 102, 3000
> telex 87
> wang 75lis12en
> harris l191-s1
> dest pcsan200
> texas instrument silent 700
> allied telesis centrecom 3008
> sytek 20/100
> npi 521
> general datacom de-1
> codex 2600
> puredata pdc520a, pdc608a, pdc620a
> comterm c6274-201
> telex 076 controller
> questronics cpa17
> ast&t 6386 wgs
> intergraph 340
> datability vcp1000
> css 486te-33
> consultronics fdm-3
> microtel bb5007-ca8575
> control data corporation cyber 910
> memorex telex 1374-51r
> aries iii image analysis system dipix
> telebit t2500
> baytech printer controller
> develcon 7330
> byteway 2000
> cimterm c6274-201
> seikosha sbp-10ai
> allied telesis 5000, 3025, 3024, 3008, 3008sl
> data general mv 12000
> memorex telex 2062
> analogic 68
> codex 6006
> telenet tp3/11-3025
> datawatch dwx86
> canstar ncu 200-00-020
> datasouth performax a600
> dataproducts bp 2000, bp 1500, dp 1000
> gandalf access server pcm2022
> npm2021
> lds2123e <----4
> asm2081
> gcm2091 <----3
> sgm2094
> motorola uds model 201b rm16m m
> adic 530/h
> allied telesis centre com 470
> local data interlynx 3287
> fifth generation systems lc-01
> penril 2332-01
> ostrocom e299 squeezplexor
> gandalf minimau
> synoptics lattisnet 102 powersupply
> 408 fault status
> ncr 3000
> canstar fibre optic hub
> otc 2160
> cisco igs-r multiprotocal router
> qms csc-100
> castelle lanpress 95054
> honeywell hds2
> 3com 3c1351
> 3com linkbuilder ecs10 type 1200-1 with 12 port utp cards and
> management card
> motorola 6005
> ods 296
> telenet tp3/11-3025
> delta data 8700t
> memorex telex 2062
> at&t 1600
> ncr 3400
> alpha industries um3000
> system industries csr176700, csr176300, csr176200
> fibrecom 9600r
> chipcom 9314s-st fibre optic hub
> sytek 2550
> comterm dc8101-101
> local data ld 3278
> telebit t2sa
> gandalf 3790z1
> net 3com multiconnect repeater 10u p/n 3c588
> net allied telisys centercom 810 (switch?)
> net david systems 6102-01 40 port rck
> net gandalf lds120, lds140, lds260, lds309, ldm309, ldm409, 9106,
> 2200226
> net gandalf mux 2000 mmux2000
> net gandalf 6808a rev d1
> net gandalf 500540101 rev 1b
> datability 500540101 rev 1b
> net gandalf p/n 427421 mux?
> net gandalf pacx 2000
> net gandalf sm9600-d
> net gandalf sm9600-oyr
> net gandalf starmaster, access server xl
> net gandalf swithmux 2000
> net memotec mpac mp8002 60 port x25 switch multiprotocol
> net memotec mpac sp8300
> net memotek sp8000 18 port
> net micom m2002
> net newbridge mainstreet 1082 in box
> net paradyne p9600
> network memotek sp800 18 port
> plotter calcomp plotmaster
> plotter hp 7550a
> protec bytelink plus 24 port peripheral sharing device 1 meg
> p/n 24p/1m 50
> puredata 12 port hub + 12 network cards $195
> qms 4 color toner rolls 2 per box $80 per box p/n 1730451-013
> ricoh 150 opc 20 $30
> sony gdm-1962b $190 20 inch 1024x768
> sony gdm-20d10 (sun) $250
> tectronics hc02 video copy processor (mitsubishi p71u)
> terminal memorex telex 1471 , 1472, 2391g
> terminal tecktronics 4205 14'
> terminal volker craig 6220
> terminal wyse 30,50,60 75, 85,99gt,160, 185,285,325,350
> terminal linc mc3, mc5
> terminal televideo 905, 955, 965
> terminal qume ,qvt31, qvt51, qvt-101, qvt101+
> toner color tektronic 016-0898-0050 40u
> adacom cp150+
> shiva lanrover/8t
> newbridge p/n 1032-8706-0259 32 port channel bank 2u
> timeplex microplex x25 pad 24 port
> newbridge 1032 mainstreet p/n 90-0533-31a
> citoh ci4000, ci15000, c310
> m3358a ,ibm 2381, 2391, 5202, 2178, 3192, 5202,
> facit b3100, 4509, 1513
> epson lq570, lq1170, fx1170, fax 1050, lq2550, lq2500, sq2500,
> sq2550, etc
> panasonic kxp1592, kxp1624,, raven pr248, pr9101
> alps 324 printer for dec systems 50
> rf delni with fibre optic interface 50
> fibre optic tranciever (digital brand) 43
> gandalf 500540101
> datability 500540101
> gandalf 6808a revd
> intel netport 306515-004 token ring db9, 306514-003 ethernet
> rj45 ,306482-004 ethernet aui
> xircom pocket ethernet adapter II pe3-10bt
> seiko smart label printer plus slp1000p slp1100
> general datacom diz ai
> general datacom dei
> human design systems hds2000
> memotec isu5600 v.35 dte
> synoptics lattisnet model 2500
> telebit netblazer st
> emerald rap150-9000 tape drive
> hp28681a 10:10 bridge lp
> hemulex jetdirect netjet ethernet pwb-er2010276-01
> hp jetdirect j2550,j2552,j2555,j2382
> pacifac data jetcard/mio 8 serial 1 parallel
> banyan jetdirect 6034100 20322e rj45 coax
> asp serverjet asp sj400 4 rj45 or 8 rj45
> datability vcp200
> datability vcp1000
> valtek pst250f 250 meg external tape parralel/serial
> mita ldc550
> 3com h46891 ethernet card 16 bit
> 3com etherlink ii 16tp
> 3com elii/16 tp, el2tp 8 bit, etherlink 3c509c parralel tasking
> adaptek mp401 autoswitch
> hpiiisi i/o card 28644-60002
> pacifac postscript for laserjet ii,iii pd-016907
> ibm mca microchannel video xga-2 fru 8tf4774aha1640 aha-1640
> adaptek isa 16 bit aha1542
> puredate arcnet pdc508a
> ascend mb4bri option nx56isdn 4 x 128k ----8x64k
> memotek da3224
> intel etherexpress 16tp 16 bit ethernet card
> pioneer drm-604x 6 cd changer scsi
> telenet to8010-16
> seikosha sbp-10a1
> xyplex maxserver 6020
> qume qvt 31,101,101+, 102, 203+
> datawatch vm14
> volker craig vc8325, vc6220
> AT&T 705 MT
> mai basic four 4313
> memotec mc504
> canon
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
From mati99 at interklub.pl Sat Jan 6 07:44:21 2001
From: mati99 at interklub.pl (Mateusz Ziolek)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 16:44:21 +0100 (CET)
Subject: REMOVE
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.20010105200302.00a7ae68@mail.internet-95.com>
Message-ID:
Pozdrawiam
Mateusz Ziolek
On Fri, 5 Jan 2001, Wilfred L. Guerin wrote:
> jan 05 2001
>
> News article referencing NSA lookingglass facility, etc... Of both general,
> technical, "esch--" and location oriented interest.
>
> http://www.sunspot.net/content/cover/story?section=cover&pagename=story&stor
> yid=1150520223288
>
> -Wilfred
> Wilfred at Cryogen.com
>
From mati99 at interklub.pl Sat Jan 6 07:45:08 2001
From: mati99 at interklub.pl (Mateusz Ziolek)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 16:45:08 +0100 (CET)
Subject: REMOVE
In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010105153056.00be76e0@flex.com>
Message-ID:
Pozdrawiam
Mateusz Ziolek
On Fri, 5 Jan 2001, Reese wrote:
> Prove that you ever had the password. If you can.
>
> At 03:24 PM 1/5/01 +0000, Paul Griffiths wrote:
> >SOS
> >I have lost password to a 123.97 spreadsheet. Any advice would be much
> >appreciated
> >Thanx
>
From njf82 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 6 16:48:38 2001
From: njf82 at yahoo.com (Keyser Soze)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 16:48:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <20010107004838.92339.qmail@web10410.mail.yahoo.com>
=====
Search Engines: http://gpcm.tripod.com/search.html
FREE: http://www.freebieclub.com/FC_myFreebies.asp?a=16942
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!
http://photos.yahoo.com/
From freesignup at earthlink.net Sat Jan 6 14:24:15 2001
From: freesignup at earthlink.net (Boot Man)
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 01 17:24:15 EST
Subject: Are you a computer user?
Message-ID: <200101062354.PAA01521@snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Dear cypherpunks at toad.com,
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From honig at sprynet.com Sat Jan 6 14:27:05 2001
From: honig at sprynet.com (David Honig)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 17:27:05 -0500
Subject: Anglo-American communications studies
In-Reply-To: <3A560BA8.6F9AD2C7@ccs.bbk.ac.uk>
References:
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010106142649.007ba100@pop.sprynet.com>
At 01:00 PM 1/5/01 -0500, Ken Brown wrote:
> a good example of the US habit of never using a short
>word when a long one will do. But when I found myself amongst Americans
>I was slightly disappointed to find that they almost all say "tap" these
>days. Just as they say "car" instead of "automobile". You are obviously
>all watching too much British TV, or listening to too many British rock
>bands. You should defend your language against this tide of old-world
>vulgarity.
Nah, we're simply Huffman-encoding. A language has to be efficient
in this meme market :-)
From Wilfred at Cryogen.com Sat Jan 6 16:17:53 2001
From: Wilfred at Cryogen.com (Wilfred L. Guerin)
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 19:17:53 -0500
Subject: FWD from W@C.c: NSA abandons wondrous stuff
In-Reply-To:
References:
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20010106191753.010788c0@mail.internet-95.com>
-=|[ NASA/NSA and PARI, etc ]|=-
Of first note, remind me not to use any fool 'send this to friend'
buttons... :) -- sorry for message weight above...
Secondly, has anyone done the simple mapping and can post a terraserver
link for the facility itself?
Additionally, although located off "Government Road" out in the forrest,
there are a number of other facilities in that area, due east, we have
lookingGlass mountain and whatnot (with related facilities), due west a
short distance is one of the new facilities (for nsa), within proximinity
are prooving and operations grounds for numerous other entities, and
although nicely centralized, if they are transfering the old nasa facility
to a private entity (although with logistic lockdown), it is
logical/feasible that other such facilities will be becoming available in
the near future? -- theres not much use for them now...
Has anyone compiled a 'theorhetical' list or set of basic maps that outline
the physical presence of various entities for public review? This would be
an interesting project now, especially with the open-ness of public
sat/aerial photography, as well as the availability and non-cold-war type
security and new potential for visitors to see the places...
Sidenote: article references an 'exchange' of the astronomers' previous
land to DOD/NSA, possibly such is an interesting facet for potential research?
I would though, like to see an archive and index/lookup of all facilities,
their operations, interactions, etc, just for education/ammusement,
especially with the most recent phase of declassification, im sure 'public
enlightenment' is a high priority of our grey-realm friends... Anyone want
to toss together a script, or provide a host for something i'll easily
build to accomodate the info?
Anyways, back to other ammusements :)
-Wilfred
Wilfred at Cryogen.com
-=|[.]|=-
At 10:14 AM 1/6/2001 -0500, you wrote:
>On Fri, 5 Jan 2001, James B. DiGriz wrote:
>
>>
>> I highly recommend anyone go see it if they get the chance. I also
welcome any
>> corrections or additions to 30-year old schoolboy memories.
http://www.pari.edu
.
..
From rketchum at theriver.com Sat Jan 6 18:33:45 2001
From: rketchum at theriver.com (Robert Ketchum)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 19:33:45 -0700
Subject: More Info
Message-ID: <000401c07852$42074d00$53c366ce@oemcomputer>
WE are interested in your services. We are looking for a cost effective way
to jump start our homepage. our number is 520.515.9809
Robert and Tanya Ketchum
From simone.lotti at tiscalinet.it Sat Jan 6 13:40:18 2001
From: simone.lotti at tiscalinet.it (Simone)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 22:40:18 +0100
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <007901c07829$441fc960$03820b3e@host>
::
request-remailing-to: simone.lotti at tiscalinet.it
questa è una prova
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From Raymond at fbn.bc.ca Sat Jan 6 20:06:59 2001
From: Raymond at fbn.bc.ca (Raymond D. Mereniuk)
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 23:06:59 -0500
Subject: Snowhite and the Seven Dwarfs - The REAL story!
References: <012901c077ba$dc4c8a80$eec11d97@seminole>
Message-ID: <3A577AA5.17951.25128D5F@localhost>
> Why? sexyfun.net traces to a .au domain, and Graeme Platt is already tired
> of hearing from me.
>
> At 03:26 AM 1/6/01 -0500, Pier Carlo Montecucchi wrote:
> >I have sent a copy of this message to a cyber crime officer in Tallahassee
There is a web site at http://www.sexyfun.net which gives some
information on this virus. Apparently the domain name sexyfun.net
was registered after the virus spread in an attempt to help people.
The owner of the domain appears to be located in North Carolina.
Once the virus inflects a system it sends out messages to everyone
in the address book. This virus manages to remove all indication of
the sender except the IP address being used by the sender. At this
point the sender is a victim and abusing them is of little value other
then they were so foolish to actually run the application when they
received it.
An easy way to check if you are infected is to drop to a MS-DOS
prompt and check for files with an extension of "vbs" in the windows
and windows/system directories. The www.sexyfun.net web site
has lots of information and links to all the major anti-virus maker's
web sites.
Virtually
Raymond D. Mereniuk
Raymond at fbn.bc.ca
"The Ultimate Enterprise Security Experts"
http://www.fbn.bc.ca/sysecurt.html
From juicy at melontraffickers.com Sun Jan 7 04:56:17 2001
From: juicy at melontraffickers.com (A. Melon)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 04:56:17 -0800
Subject: remailers still operating?
Message-ID:
On Sat, 6 Jan 2001, Igor Chudov wrote:
> I would like to have some fun on usenet, but I lost track of the current
> state of anon remailers. Are they still operational?
>
> - Igor.
>
Yep.
http://anon.efga.org/Remailers is a good starting point.
From wolf at priori.net Sun Jan 7 07:19:30 2001
From: wolf at priori.net (Meyer Wolfsheim)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 07:19:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Functional quantum computer?
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID: <200101071326.IAA21222@Prometheus.schaefer.nu>
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From carlwebb at commie.zzn.com Sun Jan 7 05:32:56 2001
From: carlwebb at commie.zzn.com (Carl Webb)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 07:32:56 -0600
Subject: Austin's 360 Summit
Message-ID: <4291D8B5984E4D11EA610005B88CF74E@carlwebb.commie.zzn.com>
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From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Sun Jan 7 06:45:10 2001
From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 08:45:10 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Functional quantum computer?
Message-ID:
http://www.sciencedaily.com
____________________________________________________________________
Before a larger group can see the virtue of an idea, a
smaller group must first understand it.
"Stranger Suns"
George Zebrowski
The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate
Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com
www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087
-====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Sun Jan 7 06:57:10 2001
From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 08:57:10 -0600 (CST)
Subject: What's up w/ CCC in Germany?
Message-ID:
Hi,
Anyone know why the ccc.de node is bouncing?
____________________________________________________________________
Before a larger group can see the virtue of an idea, a
smaller group must first understand it.
"Stranger Suns"
George Zebrowski
The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate
Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com
www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087
-====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From dakin at nationalpost.com Sun Jan 7 06:14:27 2001
From: dakin at nationalpost.com (David Akin)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 09:14:27 -0500
Subject: CBC Undercurrents does privacy
In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010106131212.027d3728@pop1.sympatico.ca>
Message-ID:
"...this week's Undercurrents . . . tackles the issue of privacy in a wired
world and, frankly, she finds a future that looks bleak. "Nothing comes
free," says a man from Bell, explaining how the phone company makes money
from selling people the tools to protect their basic privacy." - John Doyle,
The Globe and Mail, Jan. 5
Undercurrents airs on CBC at 10:30 pm (EST) Sunday, Jan. 6
Details on Undercurrents (usually with streaming video of the broadcasts can
be be found at http://www.cbc.ca/undercurrents
David Akin / Senior technology reporter
National Post / http://www.nationalpost.com
300-1450 Don Mills Road, Don Mills, Ontario
CANADA / M3B 3R5
VOX: 416.383.2372 FAX: 416.383.2443
dakin at nationalpost.com / AIM: DavidAkin
Click to add my contact info to your organizer:
http://my.infotriever.com/DavidAkin
From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Sun Jan 7 07:47:38 2001
From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 09:47:38 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Functional quantum computer?
In-Reply-To: <200101071326.IAA21222@Prometheus.schaefer.nu>
Message-ID:
Hi Meyer,
Unfortunately there is no guarantee the URL is stable either.
The point being you've got the topic and they have a search engine.
On Sun, 7 Jan 2001, Meyer Wolfsheim wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> On Sun, 7 Jan 2001, Jim Choate wrote:
>
> > http://www.sciencedaily.com
>
> Choate, you're either a complete moron or the most obstinate person I've
> ever encountered. One would expect sciencedaily.com's website to change
> daily. Hence the name. Now, when someone reads this message of yours two
> weeks from now and wants to see what it is that you were talking about,
> they're not going to be able to find it. Quantum computing will have been
> replaced by stories of monkeys trading sexual favors for food in the front
> page headlines.
>
> "Well, I have to do it this way or Tim will yell at me for posting HTML"
> you say.
>
> Wrong. Post a direct link. Everyone's happy. You don't look stupid. We all
> win.
>
> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2001/01/010105075630.htm
>
> Now, is that so hard?
>
>
> - -MW-
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.0.3
> Comment: No comment.
>
> iQEVAwUBOliJESsFU3q6vVI9AQETuAf+MFCuR1YIODPVWJT0u9jlUuxga/ICBIXB
> vOFEXMXfhWGGd1IERVHaUCr5cJFMD2apHJXYDqoWNOwFqUQyQWlk4pNog322kte0
> pJ9TDJT1Np5xRQB40okyjG1aYzoJ7NFCOdFmEBaTZXfvnKr+ho4npb9gW2MMX5xF
> e5JY4yn2Ex2im8wQDP2U80oDRW2GOxp10H0bF2cmQYMNt6gJBIa3RCFPVGpNAhuu
> +t6DfnvhwyU4DTagCwLiD2DR7BwRvr/CF17LR5DAeazWjT98NYHw5XNNKf+a/1S3
> WpLIQWT8qEb9VJCsdih+dB32twcBz+O5nbWTgwpBOsTb6kC1KvCZZw==
> =xByv
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
From cels451 at yahoo.com Sun Jan 7 10:06:55 2001
From: cels451 at yahoo.com (montag montag)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 10:06:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: cell phone anonymity
Message-ID: <20010107180655.34471.qmail@web11403.mail.yahoo.com>
Please post the actual experiences about obtaining a
pre-paid cell phone (aka "mobile" in the less
developed
world) without revealing any (correct) identifying
info,
such as address, telephone no, name, etc.
I know that it can be done in Canada. Unsure about US,
UK and the rest of europe.
regards,
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!
http://photos.yahoo.com/
From remove at mail.epay.sk Sun Jan 7 11:02:52 2001
From: remove at mail.epay.sk (ePay Inc)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 11:02:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Does someone you love have dry skin or eczema?
Message-ID: <200101071902.LAA26214@toad.com>
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From bill.stewart at pobox.com Sun Jan 7 11:27:14 2001
From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart)
Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 11:27:14 -0800
Subject: remailer test failed
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010107112714.02a31340@idiom.com>
Simone - your remailer test failed. It looks like two things went wrong.
1) You mailed it to the cypherpunks mailing list itself,
not to a remailer using the cypherpunks design.
There's a list of remailers at
http://anon.efga.org/Remailers/TypeIList
2) Your message needs to be plain text. You sent it using a
Microsoft X-HTML mail format. I've attached a copy of what
I received (in two pieces, since Eudora doesn't like to
forward X-HTML without converting to plaintext.)
So instead of seeing a line starting with :: ,
the remailer sees a line starting with
::
and doesn't know it's a remailer command.
>Received: (from majordom at localhost) by toad.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA04405
for cypherpunks-unedited-outgoing; Sat, 6 Jan 2001 13:39:59 -0800 (PST)
>Received: from mail.tiscalinet.it (mail-4.tiscalinet.it [195.130.225.150])
by toad.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA04399 for
; Sat, 6 Jan 2001 13:39:56 -0800 (PST)
>Received: from host (62.11.130.3) by mail.tiscalinet.it (5.5.015.5)
> id 3A51DED4000E79E3 for cypherpunks at toad.com; Sat, 6 Jan 2001
22:39:38 +0100
>Message-ID: <007901c07829$441fc960$03820b3e at host>
>From: "Simone"
>To:
>Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 22:40:18 +0100
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
> boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0076_01C07831.A52B8FC0"
>X-Priority: 3
>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
>X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200
>X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200
>Sender: owner-cypherpunks at cyberpass.net
>Precedence: first-class
>Reply-To: "Simone"
>X-List: cypherpunks at cyberpass.net
>X-Loop: cypherpunks at cyberpass.net
>X-UIDL: b7fc41f2ba40a8ad2e91a25ec82a7e0e
::
questa h una prova
Thanks!
Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639
From ravage at ssz.com Sun Jan 7 09:48:46 2001
From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 11:48:46 -0600 (CST)
Subject: CPS-2 Broken
Message-ID:
http://slashdot.org
____________________________________________________________________
Before a larger group can see the virtue of an idea, a
smaller group must first understand it.
"Stranger Suns"
George Zebrowski
The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate
Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com
www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087
-====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com Sun Jan 7 09:50:00 2001
From: ravage at EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 11:50:00 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Spam Re: Are you a computer user?
In-Reply-To: <000001c078ce$3665a100$3bc378d4@g8f8d4>
Message-ID:
On Sun, 7 Jan 2001, Alexandros Andreou wrote:
> Can't the admin do something about all this spam???
>
Which admin? You must be a newbie, see the archives and
http://einstein.ssz.com/cdr/
____________________________________________________________________
Before a larger group can see the virtue of an idea, a
smaller group must first understand it.
"Stranger Suns"
George Zebrowski
The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate
Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com
www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087
-====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From mycroftxxx at rebma.pro-ns.net Sun Jan 7 10:48:13 2001
From: mycroftxxx at rebma.pro-ns.net (Mike Holmes)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 12:48:13 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Functional quantum computer?
Message-ID: <200101071848.f07ImDF02903@rebma.pro-ns.net>
On Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 07:19:30AM -0800, Meyer Wolfsheim wrote:
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> On Sun, 7 Jan 2001, Jim Choate wrote:
>
> > http://www.sciencedaily.com
>
> Choate, you're either a complete moron or the most obstinate person I've
> ever encountered.
Is that the regular OR, or do you mean XOR?
From amar at nde.vsnl.net.in Sun Jan 7 01:34:30 2001
From: amar at nde.vsnl.net.in (Playnet)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 15:04:30 +0530
Subject: want to save my program ,page on my web site help me
Message-ID:
want to creat login that no body can hack my password
also want password protaction, creation of mirror file
amar at nde.vsnl.net.in
From honig at sprynet.com Sun Jan 7 12:51:27 2001
From: honig at sprynet.com (David Honig)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 15:51:27 -0500
Subject: Spam Re: Are you a computer user?
In-Reply-To: <000001c078ce$3665a100$3bc378d4@g8f8d4>
References: <200101062354.PAA01521@snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010107123018.007c1150@pop.sprynet.com>
At 12:37 PM 1/7/01 -0500, Alexandros Andreou wrote:
>Can't the admin do something about all this spam???
Probably, if there were one.
From ajenks at microsoft.com Sun Jan 7 15:56:52 2001
From: ajenks at microsoft.com (Andrew Jenks)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 15:56:52 -0800
Subject: cell phone anonymity
Message-ID: <909EB55D24CCFD4D9ABABD1B9BD610C601119461@red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com>
In the US they are now selling prepaid phones in electronics stores,
computer stores, and -- my favorite -- some Blockbuster movie rental
locations. You go in, pick up a box, pay cash at the register, and you're
done. No information is required at the time of purchase. Refills
available from various retailers depending upon your service company.
Again, you walk in, pick one up, pay cash, and leave.
-----Original Message-----
From: montag montag [mailto:cels451 at yahoo.com]
Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2001 10:07 AM
To: cypherpunks at toad.com
Subject: cell phone anonymity
Please post the actual experiences about obtaining a
pre-paid cell phone (aka "mobile" in the less
developed
world) without revealing any (correct) identifying
info,
such as address, telephone no, name, etc.
I know that it can be done in Canada. Unsure about US,
UK and the rest of europe.
regards,
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!
http://photos.yahoo.com/
From abuse at microsoft.com Sun Jan 7 16:27:19 2001
From: abuse at microsoft.com (Abuse at Microsoft)
Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 16:27:19 -0800
Subject: Confirmation Receipt
Message-ID: <200101080124.TAA12879@einstein.ssz.com>
Thank you for your inquiry to Abuse at Microsoft.com
Your e-mail was received on Sun, Jan 7, 2001 at 4:25 PM and will be
handled personally by one of our Customer Service Representatives within
12 hours. Our Customer Service Representatives can answer general policy
questions, validate your support eligibility, or refer you to the
appropriate phone, e-mail, or Web resource.
To explore online support options, please visit
http://support.microsoft.com/directory/default.asp.
Thank you,
Microsoft Product Support Services
From sbrown249 at excite.com Sun Jan 7 13:34:11 2001
From: sbrown249 at excite.com (sbrown249 at excite.com)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 16:34:11 -0500
Subject: Take aim at e-commerce
Message-ID: <00003ebe4962$000036f7$00001598@209.162.52.75>
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From cels451 at yahoo.com Sun Jan 7 17:44:35 2001
From: cels451 at yahoo.com (montag montag)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 17:44:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: cell phone anonymity
Message-ID: <20010108014435.48950.qmail@web11404.mail.yahoo.com>
>To stall traffic analysis - buy many GSM cash-cards
and change
>frequently - they are only around USD 10 (not
counting the prepaid
>calling time). I don't believe the cell phone is
sending it's serial
>number (but who - except for deep insiders and
possibly Lucky Green -
Your belief is ... well, unfounded. Cell phones do
always
send the handset ID. You must exchange handsets with
SIM cards.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!
http://photos.yahoo.com/
From vab at cryptnet.net Sun Jan 7 15:00:05 2001
From: vab at cryptnet.net (V. Alex Brennen)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 18:00:05 -0500 (EST)
Subject: PGP Key Signing Party! (Gainesville, Fl)
Message-ID:
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From andreou at netexperts.gr Sun Jan 7 08:27:31 2001
From: andreou at netexperts.gr (Alexandros Andreou)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 18:27:31 +0200
Subject: Spam Re: Are you a computer user?
References: <200101062354.PAA01521@snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <000001c078ce$3665a100$3bc378d4@g8f8d4>
Can't the admin do something about all this spam???
From jya at pipeline.com Sun Jan 7 15:29:51 2001
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 18:29:51 -0500
Subject: Steven Levy Book Tour
Message-ID: <200101072336.SAA31519@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>
Steven Levy writes:
Here is a link to some sites for a book tour:
http://www.penguinputnam.com/stevenlevy/tour.htm
Not on there for some reason is a reading/discussion at Microsoft's Mountain
View (CA) campus on Jan 12 at 3:30 p.m. that's open to the public. Another
public event is Jan. 16 at the University of Washington bookstore in
Seattle, at 7 pm.
-----
Sorry I failed to mention previously the full title of Steve's new book
(first posted, I thnk, by Commando Hettinga):
"CRYPTO: How the Code Rebels Beat the Government - Saving
Privacy in the Digital Age."
And more:
Endorsements for Crypto by Neal Stephenson, Kevin Kelly and David Kahn:
"You've got to hear this story of how renegade geniuses and unlikely heroes
liberated crypto from under the noses of spooks, and installed the code in
the dream servers of dot-coms. This book persuaded me that despite the
dangers of strong crypto (it gives a chance for evil to hide) providing it
to the public was a Very Good Thing. Crypto not only makes e-commerce
possible, it is also the first political movement in the digital era. Read
about the future here."
--Kevin Kelly, author of New Rules for the New Economy and Editor-at-Large,
Wired Magazine
"At last! The human story of the breakthroughs that gave us e-commerce and
privacy on the Internet. Steve Levy has written cryptography's Soul of a New
Machine.'"
--David Kahn, author of The Codebreakers
"Civilian crypto hardly existed three decades ago. Now we can't get cash
from an ATM or buy something on the Net without it. To tell the story
coherently is a service, and to tell it entertainingly is a favor to anyone
with a stake in crypto--which nowadays means all of us. CRYPTO is a book
that needed to be written and Steven Levy has written it. "
-- Neal Stephenson, author of Cryptonomicon
Author Bio
Steven Levy is also the author of Hackers and Insanely Great: The Life &
Times of Macintosh, the Computer That Changed Everything. He is Newsweek's
chief technology writer, a former writer for Macworld, and a frequent
contributor to Wired.
From pzakas at toucancapital.com Sun Jan 7 15:34:43 2001
From: pzakas at toucancapital.com (Phillip Zakas)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 18:34:43 -0500
Subject: cell phone anonymity
In-Reply-To: <20010107180655.34471.qmail@web11403.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID:
RE: actual cell phone buying experiences in Europe...
In Greece you can purchase a GSM cell phone with smart card reader for cash
(sometimes free if you purchase a smart card along with the phone)...no
address, phone number, etc. required to receive the phone. Smart cards with
pre-set values (usually $5, $10 and $25 worth in Greek drachmas) are
purchased in cash via the thousands of corner kiosks or at electronics
stores, etc. Again, no name, phone number, address, etc. required to
purchase smart cards.
The Greek GSM cell phones are useable across all of Europe, including the UK
and Eastern Europe, Russia, etc. Plus the phones can be modified to
interact with Voicestream's US GSM-type service (I've been told, not
experienced first hand).
Phillip Zakas
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-cypherpunks at Algebra.COM
[mailto:owner-cypherpunks at Algebra.COM]On Behalf Of montag montag
Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2001 1:07 PM
To: cypherpunks at toad.com
Subject: cell phone anonymity
Please post the actual experiences about obtaining a
pre-paid cell phone (aka "mobile" in the less
developed
world) without revealing any (correct) identifying
info,
such as address, telephone no, name, etc.
I know that it can be done in Canada. Unsure about US,
UK and the rest of europe.
regards,
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!
http://photos.yahoo.com/
From PaulMerrill at acm.org Sun Jan 7 16:55:57 2001
From: PaulMerrill at acm.org (Paul H. Merrill)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 19:55:57 -0500
Subject: cell phone anonymity
References: <909EB55D24CCFD4D9ABABD1B9BD610C601119461@red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com>
Message-ID: <3A591090.4AFE638@ACM.Org>
But, the rates on the prepaid services are
exorbitant, almost a dollar a minute for the
smaller recharges and they never do get good. As
always, you don't get more than you pay for.
PHM
Andrew Jenks wrote:
>
> In the US they are now selling prepaid phones in electronics stores,
> computer stores, and -- my favorite -- some Blockbuster movie rental
> locations. You go in, pick up a box, pay cash at the register, and you're
> done. No information is required at the time of purchase. Refills
> available from various retailers depending upon your service company.
> Again, you walk in, pick one up, pay cash, and leave.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> X-Loop: openpgp.net
> From: montag montag [mailto:cels451 at yahoo.com]
> Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2001 10:07 AM
> To: cypherpunks at toad.com
> Subject: cell phone anonymity
>
> Please post the actual experiences about obtaining a
> pre-paid cell phone (aka "mobile" in the less
> developed
> world) without revealing any (correct) identifying
> info,
> such as address, telephone no, name, etc.
>
> I know that it can be done in Canada. Unsure about US,
> UK and the rest of europe.
>
> regards,
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!
> http://photos.yahoo.com/
--
Paul H. Merrill, MCNE, MCSE+I, CISSP
PaulMerrill at ACM.Org
From commerce at home.com Sun Jan 7 18:35:00 2001
From: commerce at home.com (Me)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 21:35:00 -0500
Subject: Janet Reno on IP, piracy and terrorism
References: <3A53606F.3552F6FF@lsil.com> <3A537BE0.4A4E9E96@harmon.arrowhead.lib.mn.us>
Message-ID: <03fd01c0791b$99751940$0100a8c0@golem>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Harmon Seaver"
> mmotyka at lsil.com wrote:
> > nefarious activities. Same as Napster. What a stupid shit.
Think the
> > next prez will do any better picking an AG? Don't bet on it.
> Bet on it? We don't have to do that -- look who he picked.
Asscroft,
> the boob who got beat by a dead man. Check out his
ultra-fascist voting
> record. Gag. Barf.
Yes, but I bet he will burn very few children to death in a
church during his first year.
Nothing short of him raping babies with a ricin dildo while
banning swear words on the internet as he runs naked through a
synagogue singing horst wessel could put him below Reno.
And what the hell is an ultra-fascist?
From George at Orwellian.Org Sun Jan 7 19:35:54 2001
From: George at Orwellian.Org (George at Orwellian.Org)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 22:35:54 -0500 (EST)
Subject: NZ Snoop Backlash
Message-ID: <200101080335.WAA16172@www6.aa.psiweb.com>
But first...
Butt-ugly KGB watches:
http://www.russia2all.com/watches/military/watch_military_army.htm
Get yer KGB memorabilia before portals bans it.
----
Wouldn't it be at least something to have a U.S. cabinet level
position of Privacy Commissioner? NZ, Canada but not US.
(via slashdot)
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storydisplay.cfm?storyID=167151&thesection=news&thesubsection=general
Police snooping needs tight rein says report
01/03/2001 By EUGENE BINGHAM political reporter
Plans to give police and spy agencies the power to hack into
computers and intercept electronic communications will lead to
unprecedented snooping, the Privacy Commissioner has warned.
In a report calling for limitations to be placed on law
enforcement bodies, and greater accountability, Bruce Slane
opposes the "pernicious" practice of police hacking into
databases.
He has recommended that if police are allowed to hack into
personal computers, they should need more than a search warrant.
A law change making hacking and other computer snooping illegal
except when carried out by the Security Intelligence Service
(SIS), the Government Communications Security Bureau (GCSB) or
the police is before the law and order select committee.
Associate Justice Minister Paul Swain introduced the legislation
in November, saying the agencies needed the powers to battle
crime and terrorism.
Mr Slane reported to the Government on the changes before
Christmas, welcoming the clamp-down on unauthorised access to
computer systems but questioning whether there would be enough
controls on state agencies.
"It is easy to think of the interception of communications or
the accessing of a computer as affecting only the target of police
interest," he wrote.
"However ... many other people [are] affected by interceptions
or computer-related searches.
"Trawling or browsing through a myriad of personal information
[would be] authorised on an unprecedented scale.
"A single interception warrant can, for instance, authorise
listening into hundreds of conversations involving scores of
individuals beyond the targeted individuals."
The new law would clear the SIS to carry out a sting on a database
once the agency had an interception warrant.
Police would need only a search warrant.
Mr Slane did not believe that a search warrant, issued by a
justice of the peace, was strong enough.
"Search warrants are not designed for regulating covert
investigations or surveillance," he said.
"Hacking into a person's computer should be, if allowed at all,
very much a last resort.
"Search warrants, unlike interception warrants, do not require
the intrusive technique to be used only as a last resort."
Mr Slane said yesterday that the police should have to obtain
an interception warrant from a judge too.
Hacking into a computer and intercepting electronic communications
was far more intrusive than police saying, "We have got some
evidence this guy's got stolen property."
The report also calls for the GCSB to be omitted from the
exemption clauses until it becomes a statutory body like the
SIS.
Prime Minister Helen Clark has said the bureau would be written
into law this year.
Mr Slane said it should not be given more rights until the public
was aware of its accountability and powers.
"Unlike the SIS, any interceptions which may be carried out are
not subject to a statutory warrant process.
"This will not be put right until the GCSB's establishment is
set out in legislation."
From jf_avon at videotron.ca Sun Jan 7 19:48:09 2001
From: jf_avon at videotron.ca (JFA)
Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 22:48:09 -0500
Subject: Free FREEDOM REFRESHER COURSE
Message-ID: <200101080351.TAA10000@toad.com>
FREEDOM REFRESHER COURSE
author unknown
a. An armed person is a citizen. An unarmed person is a subject.
b. A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone.
c. Six-shooter: The original point and click interface.
d. Gun control is not about guns; it's about control.
e. If guns are outlawed, can we use swords?
f. If guns cause crime, then pencils cause misspelled words.
g. Free men do not ask permission to bear arms.
h. If you don't know your rights, you don't have any.
i. Those who trade liberty for security have neither.
j. The United States Constitution (c) 1791. All Rights Reserved.
k. What part of "shall not be infringed" do you not understand?
l. The Second Amendment is in place in case they ignore the others.
m. 64,999,987 firearm owners killed no one yesterday.
n. Guns only have two enemies: Rust and Politicians.
o. Know guns, Know peace and safety. No guns, no peace nor safety.
p. You don't shoot to kill; You shoot to stay alive.
q. 911 - government sponsored Dial a Prayer.
r. Assault is a behavior, not a device.
s. Criminals love gun control - it makes their jobs safer.
t. If Guns cause Crime, then Matches cause Arson.
u. Only a government that is afraid of its citizens tries to control
them.
v. You only have the rights you are willing to fight for.
w. We don't enforce unconstitutional laws; we REPEAL them.
x. When you remove the people's right to bear arms, you create
slaves.
y. The American Revolution would never have happened with "gun
control."
z. "....a government by the people, for the people....."
-------------- next part --------------
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From declan at well.com Sun Jan 7 20:17:24 2001
From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 23:17:24 -0500
Subject: Functional quantum computer?
In-Reply-To: ; from ravage@ssz.com on Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 09:47:38AM -0600
References: <200101071326.IAA21222@Prometheus.schaefer.nu>
Message-ID: <20010107231724.A3882@cluebot.com>
Choate: Moron or obstinate?
The truth is somewhere in between. As Choate knows, many news sites
keep URLs active for quite a while. Wired.com URLs from 1995 still
work, for instance.
And search engines aren't always updated or don't always work that
well. Etc. Like I said, a little of both.
-Declan
On Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 09:47:38AM -0600, Jim Choate wrote:
>
> Hi Meyer,
>
> Unfortunately there is no guarantee the URL is stable either.
>
> The point being you've got the topic and they have a search engine.
>
> On Sun, 7 Jan 2001, Meyer Wolfsheim wrote:
>
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> >
> > On Sun, 7 Jan 2001, Jim Choate wrote:
> >
> > > http://www.sciencedaily.com
> >
> > Choate, you're either a complete moron or the most obstinate person I've
> > ever encountered. One would expect sciencedaily.com's website to change
> > daily. Hence the name. Now, when someone reads this message of yours two
> > weeks from now and wants to see what it is that you were talking about,
> > they're not going to be able to find it. Quantum computing will have been
> > replaced by stories of monkeys trading sexual favors for food in the front
> > page headlines.
> >
> > "Well, I have to do it this way or Tim will yell at me for posting HTML"
> > you say.
> >
> > Wrong. Post a direct link. Everyone's happy. You don't look stupid. We all
> > win.
> >
> > http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2001/01/010105075630.htm
> >
> > Now, is that so hard?
> >
> >
> > - -MW-
> >
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > Version: GnuPG v1.0.3
> > Comment: No comment.
> >
> > iQEVAwUBOliJESsFU3q6vVI9AQETuAf+MFCuR1YIODPVWJT0u9jlUuxga/ICBIXB
> > vOFEXMXfhWGGd1IERVHaUCr5cJFMD2apHJXYDqoWNOwFqUQyQWlk4pNog322kte0
> > pJ9TDJT1Np5xRQB40okyjG1aYzoJ7NFCOdFmEBaTZXfvnKr+ho4npb9gW2MMX5xF
> > e5JY4yn2Ex2im8wQDP2U80oDRW2GOxp10H0bF2cmQYMNt6gJBIa3RCFPVGpNAhuu
> > +t6DfnvhwyU4DTagCwLiD2DR7BwRvr/CF17LR5DAeazWjT98NYHw5XNNKf+a/1S3
> > WpLIQWT8qEb9VJCsdih+dB32twcBz+O5nbWTgwpBOsTb6kC1KvCZZw==
> > =xByv
> > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> >
>
From declan at well.com Sun Jan 7 20:18:20 2001
From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 23:18:20 -0500
Subject: cell phone anonymity
In-Reply-To: <4.1.20010107233126.00934100@zebra.swip.net>; from mob@mbox301.swipnet.se on Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 11:49:10PM +0100
References: <20010107180655.34471.qmail@web11403.mail.yahoo.com> <4.1.20010107233126.00934100@zebra.swip.net>
Message-ID: <20010107231819.B3882@cluebot.com>
Just got to your local cell phone dealer (even blockbuster here
in DC) and buy an AT&T prepaid cell phone for cash.
-Declan
On Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 11:49:10PM +0100, Mats O. Bergstrom wrote:
> At 10:06 2001-01-07 -0800, montag montag wrote:
> >Please post the actual experiences about obtaining a
> >pre-paid cell phone
>
> GSM/Europe
> 1) Buy a cell phone and pay cash
> 2) Buy a GSM cash-card and pay cash
> 3) Don4t send in the registration form to get that extra half hour! :-)
>
> To stall traffic analysis - buy many GSM cash-cards and change
> frequently - they are only around USD 10 (not counting the prepaid
> calling time). I don't believe the cell phone is sending it's serial
> number (but who - except for deep insiders and possibly Lucky Green -
> knows for sure?).
>
> //Mob
>
From declan at well.com Sun Jan 7 20:18:59 2001
From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 23:18:59 -0500
Subject: cell phone anonymity
In-Reply-To: <20010107180655.34471.qmail@web11403.mail.yahoo.com>; from cels451@yahoo.com on Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 10:06:55AM -0800
References: <20010107180655.34471.qmail@web11403.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20010107231859.C3882@cluebot.com>
Ah, sorry, my comments were US-specific.
-Declan
On Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 10:06:55AM -0800, montag montag wrote:
> Please post the actual experiences about obtaining a
> pre-paid cell phone (aka "mobile" in the less
> developed
> world) without revealing any (correct) identifying
> info,
> such as address, telephone no, name, etc.
>
> I know that it can be done in Canada. Unsure about US,
> UK and the rest of europe.
>
> regards,
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!
> http://photos.yahoo.com/
>
From declan at well.com Sun Jan 7 20:20:28 2001
From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 23:20:28 -0500
Subject: cell phone anonymity
In-Reply-To: <3A591090.4AFE638@ACM.Org>; from PaulMerrill@acm.org on Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 07:55:57PM -0500
References: <909EB55D24CCFD4D9ABABD1B9BD610C601119461@red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> <3A591090.4AFE638@ACM.Org>
Message-ID: <20010107231950.D3882@cluebot.com>
AT&T is $.40/minute, still very high, for larger units such as $100
purchases of minutes. --Declan
On Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 07:55:57PM -0500, Paul H. Merrill wrote:
> But, the rates on the prepaid services are
> exorbitant, almost a dollar a minute for the
> smaller recharges and they never do get good. As
> always, you don't get more than you pay for.
>
> PHM
>
> Andrew Jenks wrote:
> >
> > In the US they are now selling prepaid phones in electronics stores,
> > computer stores, and -- my favorite -- some Blockbuster movie rental
> > locations. You go in, pick up a box, pay cash at the register, and you're
> > done. No information is required at the time of purchase. Refills
> > available from various retailers depending upon your service company.
> > Again, you walk in, pick one up, pay cash, and leave.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > X-Loop: openpgp.net
> > From: montag montag [mailto:cels451 at yahoo.com]
> > Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2001 10:07 AM
> > To: cypherpunks at toad.com
> > Subject: cell phone anonymity
> >
> > Please post the actual experiences about obtaining a
> > pre-paid cell phone (aka "mobile" in the less
> > developed
> > world) without revealing any (correct) identifying
> > info,
> > such as address, telephone no, name, etc.
> >
> > I know that it can be done in Canada. Unsure about US,
> > UK and the rest of europe.
> >
> > regards,
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!
> > http://photos.yahoo.com/
>
> --
> Paul H. Merrill, MCNE, MCSE+I, CISSP
> PaulMerrill at ACM.Org
>
>
From declan at well.com Sun Jan 7 20:21:25 2001
From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh)
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 23:21:25 -0500
Subject: Steven Levy Book Tour
In-Reply-To: <200101072336.SAA31519@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>; from jya@pipeline.com on Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 06:29:51PM -0500
References: <200101072336.SAA31519@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20010107232125.E3882@cluebot.com>
I took a copy of Steven's book to Aruba and read most of it there.
Very worthwhile. I'll review it soon.
-Declan
On Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 06:29:51PM -0500, John Young wrote:
> Steven Levy writes:
>
> Here is a link to some sites for a book tour:
>
> http://www.penguinputnam.com/stevenlevy/tour.htm
>
> Not on there for some reason is a reading/discussion at Microsoft's Mountain
> View (CA) campus on Jan 12 at 3:30 p.m. that's open to the public. Another
> public event is Jan. 16 at the University of Washington bookstore in
> Seattle, at 7 pm.
>
> -----
>
> Sorry I failed to mention previously the full title of Steve's new book
> (first posted, I thnk, by Commando Hettinga):
>
> "CRYPTO: How the Code Rebels Beat the Government - Saving
> Privacy in the Digital Age."
>
> And more:
>
> Endorsements for Crypto by Neal Stephenson, Kevin Kelly and David Kahn:
>
> "You've got to hear this story of how renegade geniuses and unlikely heroes
> liberated crypto from under the noses of spooks, and installed the code in
> the dream servers of dot-coms. This book persuaded me that despite the
> dangers of strong crypto (it gives a chance for evil to hide) providing it
> to the public was a Very Good Thing. Crypto not only makes e-commerce
> possible, it is also the first political movement in the digital era. Read
> about the future here."
> --Kevin Kelly, author of New Rules for the New Economy and Editor-at-Large,
> Wired Magazine
>
> "At last! The human story of the breakthroughs that gave us e-commerce and
> privacy on the Internet. Steve Levy has written cryptography's Soul of a New
> Machine.'"
> --David Kahn, author of The Codebreakers
>
> "Civilian crypto hardly existed three decades ago. Now we can't get cash
> from an ATM or buy something on the Net without it. To tell the story
> coherently is a service, and to tell it entertainingly is a favor to anyone
> with a stake in crypto--which nowadays means all of us. CRYPTO is a book
> that needed to be written and Steven Levy has written it. "
> -- Neal Stephenson, author of Cryptonomicon
>
> Author Bio
>
> Steven Levy is also the author of Hackers and Insanely Great: The Life &
> Times of Macintosh, the Computer That Changed Everything. He is Newsweek's
> chief technology writer, a former writer for Macworld, and a frequent
> contributor to Wired.
>
>
From mob at mbox301.swipnet.se Sun Jan 7 14:49:10 2001
From: mob at mbox301.swipnet.se (Mats O. Bergstrom)
Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 23:49:10 +0100
Subject: cell phone anonymity
In-Reply-To: <20010107180655.34471.qmail@web11403.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4.1.20010107233126.00934100@zebra.swip.net>
At 10:06 2001-01-07 -0800, montag montag wrote:
>Please post the actual experiences about obtaining a
>pre-paid cell phone
GSM/Europe
1) Buy a cell phone and pay cash
2) Buy a GSM cash-card and pay cash
3) Don´t send in the registration form to get that extra half hour! :-)
To stall traffic analysis - buy many GSM cash-cards and change
frequently - they are only around USD 10 (not counting the prepaid
calling time). I don't believe the cell phone is sending it's serial
number (but who - except for deep insiders and possibly Lucky Green -
knows for sure?).
//Mob
From bear at sonic.net Sun Jan 7 21:59:26 2001
From: bear at sonic.net (Ray Dillinger)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 00:59:26 -0500
Subject: cell phone anonymity
In-Reply-To: <3A591090.4AFE638@ACM.Org>
Message-ID:
On the larger purchases, the costs drop down to the forty-cents-a-minute
range. Totally worth it if you really *need* anonymity on the phone.
Of course, anonymity is relative; these phones have built-in GPS chips
for 911 calls, and these are activated from the central office, not by
a 911-sensing circuit in the handset. IOW, it is not impossible for
someone with the right gear and knowhow to query the phone for its
exact latitude and longitude at any moment when it's in use. (I don't
know whether it can be queried when it's switched off, nor if so whether
removing the main batteries will stop it). So if you're into hard
anonymity, keep it inside a faraday cage when you're not using it and
don't use it from inside your own dwelling.
Faraday cages don't have to be fancy; a fruitcake tin will usually do.
Bear
On Sun, 7 Jan 2001, Paul H. Merrill wrote:
>But, the rates on the prepaid services are
>exorbitant, almost a dollar a minute for the
>smaller recharges and they never do get good. As
>always, you don't get more than you pay for.
>
>PHM
>
>Andrew Jenks wrote:
>>
>> In the US they are now selling prepaid phones in electronics stores,
>> computer stores, and -- my favorite -- some Blockbuster movie rental
>> locations. You go in, pick up a box, pay cash at the register, and you're
>> done. No information is required at the time of purchase. Refills
>> available from various retailers depending upon your service company.
>> Again, you walk in, pick one up, pay cash, and leave.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> X-Loop: openpgp.net
>> From: montag montag [mailto:cels451 at yahoo.com]
>> Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2001 10:07 AM
>> To: cypherpunks at toad.com
>> Subject: cell phone anonymity
>>
>> Please post the actual experiences about obtaining a
>> pre-paid cell phone (aka "mobile" in the less
>> developed
>> world) without revealing any (correct) identifying
>> info,
>> such as address, telephone no, name, etc.
>>
>> I know that it can be done in Canada. Unsure about US,
>> UK and the rest of europe.
>>
>> regards,
>>
>> __________________________________________________
>> Do You Yahoo!?
>> Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!
>> http://photos.yahoo.com/
>
>--
>Paul H. Merrill, MCNE, MCSE+I, CISSP
>PaulMerrill at ACM.Org
>
>
From jbdreads at swbell.net Mon Jan 8 03:10:18 2001
From: jbdreads at swbell.net (jbdreads at swbell.net)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 03:10:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: "Dreadlocks Are Easy to Get!"....The Hard Part Is.......
Message-ID: <200101081110.DAA17411@toad.com>
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From pzakas at toucancapital.com Mon Jan 8 00:10:55 2001
From: pzakas at toucancapital.com (Phillip Zakas)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 03:10:55 -0500
Subject: cell phone anonymity
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:
Just a minor correction to the below posting: cell phone locations are NOT
calculated using GPS. They're triangulated via the three nearest cell sites
reading the cell phone signal. Accuracy is much lower than with GPS, but
good enough for cops to, say, find a stranded motorist on a highway. I
believe resolution is somewhere around 40 meters in densely populated areas
(where there are many cell phone towers). This resolution figure varies
from region to region.
GPS, as you know, relies on the satellite GPS system which requires special
electronics and antenna systems that neither US-based (cdma, tdma, etc.) nor
Europe-based (GSM) nor Japan based cell phone systems incorporate into cell
phones. The only system which MAY have included GPS (but I don't think they
included it though they could have) was IRIDIUM, which is now used by the US
Navy and US Special Forces units for remote communications...yes IRIDIUM is
still alive and kicking. Turns out their satellite-to-satellite
communication, which uses direct laser communication, is pretty secure. :)
IMHO, the real privacy issue with cell phones is the security of a
conversation. Digital cell phones use padded encryption keys which
effectively dummy down overall encryption. If you cryptanalyze a
transmission you'll find a nice, consistent pad of zeros in every key (how
thoughtful to make the padding so consistent!)
phillip zakas
-----Original Message-----
X-Loop: openpgp.net
From: owner-cypherpunks at Algebra.COM
[mailto:owner-cypherpunks at Algebra.COM]On Behalf Of Ray Dillinger
Sent: Monday, January 08, 2001 12:59 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list
Subject: Re: cell phone anonymity
On the larger purchases, the costs drop down to the forty-cents-a-minute
range. Totally worth it if you really *need* anonymity on the phone.
Of course, anonymity is relative; these phones have built-in GPS chips
for 911 calls, and these are activated from the central office, not by
a 911-sensing circuit in the handset. IOW, it is not impossible for
someone with the right gear and knowhow to query the phone for its
exact latitude and longitude at any moment when it's in use. (I don't
know whether it can be queried when it's switched off, nor if so whether
removing the main batteries will stop it). So if you're into hard
anonymity, keep it inside a faraday cage when you're not using it and
don't use it from inside your own dwelling.
Faraday cages don't have to be fancy; a fruitcake tin will usually do.
Bear
On Sun, 7 Jan 2001, Paul H. Merrill wrote:
>But, the rates on the prepaid services are
>exorbitant, almost a dollar a minute for the
>smaller recharges and they never do get good. As
>always, you don't get more than you pay for.
>
>PHM
>
>Andrew Jenks wrote:
>>
>> In the US they are now selling prepaid phones in electronics stores,
>> computer stores, and -- my favorite -- some Blockbuster movie rental
>> locations. You go in, pick up a box, pay cash at the register, and
you're
>> done. No information is required at the time of purchase. Refills
>> available from various retailers depending upon your service company.
>> Again, you walk in, pick one up, pay cash, and leave.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> X-Loop: openpgp.net
>> From: montag montag [mailto:cels451 at yahoo.com]
>> Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2001 10:07 AM
>> To: cypherpunks at toad.com
>> Subject: cell phone anonymity
>>
>> Please post the actual experiences about obtaining a
>> pre-paid cell phone (aka "mobile" in the less
>> developed
>> world) without revealing any (correct) identifying
>> info,
>> such as address, telephone no, name, etc.
>>
>> I know that it can be done in Canada. Unsure about US,
>> UK and the rest of europe.
>>
>> regards,
>>
>> __________________________________________________
>> Do You Yahoo!?
>> Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!
>> http://photos.yahoo.com/
>
>--
>Paul H. Merrill, MCNE, MCSE+I, CISSP
>PaulMerrill at ACM.Org
>
>
From George at Orwellian.Org Mon Jan 8 03:11:31 2001
From: George at Orwellian.Org (George at Orwellian.Org)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 06:11:31 -0500 (EST)
Subject: SEC Investigation into VA Linux IPO
Message-ID: <200101081111.GAA07835@www9.aa.psiweb.com>
It's a "Front Page" article at wsj.com.
There is free 30-day registration for access to the site.
From hseaver at harmon.arrowhead.lib.mn.us Mon Jan 8 04:35:36 2001
From: hseaver at harmon.arrowhead.lib.mn.us (Harmon Seaver)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 07:35:36 -0500
Subject: Janet Reno on IP, piracy and terrorism
In-Reply-To: <03fd01c0791b$99751940$0100a8c0@golem> from "Me" at Jan 07, 2001 09:34:29 PM
Message-ID: <200101081235.f08CZMR13000@harmon.arrowhead.lib.mn.us>
> > Bet on it? We don't have to do that -- look who he picked.
> Asscroft,
> > the boob who got beat by a dead man. Check out his
> ultra-fascist voting
> > record. Gag. Barf.
>
> Yes, but I bet he will burn very few children to death in a
> church during his first year.
No, instead he'll probably burn pot smokers at the stake by the
millions.
>
> Nothing short of him raping babies with a ricin dildo while
> banning swear words on the internet as he runs naked through a
> synagogue singing horst wessel could put him below Reno.
>
I'm sure he'll be right in there, maybe a trifle different, but on
the same par. This is the New World Order after all, Reno\Asscroft --
Gush\Bore, what's the diff? Your ass will end up a slave either way.
> And what the hell is an ultra-fascist?
Ummm -- you have a dictionary? He's certainly more fascist than David
Duke, for instance. Or the average pig on the beat.
--
Harmon Seaver, MLIS Systems Librarian
Arrowhead Library System Virginia, MN
(218) 741-3840 hseaver at arrowhead.lib.mn.us http://harmon.arrowhead.lib.mn.us
From dtolbert at g2a.net Mon Jan 8 07:41:40 2001
From: dtolbert at g2a.net (donald)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 07:41:40 -0800
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010108074140.00796650@pop.g2a.net>
send me photo free
From k.brown at ccs.bbk.ac.uk Mon Jan 8 05:17:51 2001
From: k.brown at ccs.bbk.ac.uk (Ken Brown)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 08:17:51 -0500
Subject: Anglo-American communications studies
References:
Message-ID: <3A59BDDD.F3CE6BA5@ccs.bbk.ac.uk>
Tim May wrote:
>
> I'm now 49, and "car" has been much more common in these United
> States than "automobile" has been, in my lifetime.
>
> Further, I often hear Britishisms which are far longer and more
> labored than the American equivalents. For example:
>
> "articulated lorry" vs. "semi"
>
> "redundant" vs. "laid-off"
>
> "Mackintosh" vs. "raincoat"
"redundant" which has a technical legal meaning that is different from
"laid-off" (which we also use).
"artic" & "mac" are both normal (though the second now old-fashioned -
who wears raincoats any more anyway?)
> "Pantechnicon" = "moving van"
>
> (I only learned this last one on a site devoted to Britishisms vs.
> Americanisms.)
Don't believe all you read on the web :-) I wouldn't have known
"pantechnicon" was a van if you'd asked me. And we used to think you
didn't have the word "van" - we thought you always said "truck" or
"pick-up". (Though when I went to Texas my colleagues seemed to use the
word "van" to include passenger vehicles - the large car/small bus sort
of thing that gets sold as a "people mover" over here. For us a "van" is
for carrying things more than people, though plenty of drivers use them
as cars)
Anyway - I heard Americans on the TV last week talking about "railway"
instead of "railroad". And "station" instead of "depot" (though Grand
Central Station is I suppose quite old, so you must have had that one
for a while)
As you said:
> Fact is, both dialects of English have longer versions of the same
> basic word than other dialects have.
> Which is preferable is a matter of taste and familiarity.
and there are very few opportunities for real misunderstanding. We know
"Randy" is a name in the US, even if we snigger when we hear it, and any
American spending more than 5 minutes in Britain UK would find out that
a "fag" is a cigarette, so no harm done.
If there is any chance of confusion it is in the connotations of speech
rather than the denotations. "Homely" has the same literal meaning
(home-like, reminiscent of home) on both sides of the Atlantic but in
Britain it is emotionally slightly positive (Tolkien's "Last Homely
House") & in the US very negative, mostly used as a euphemism for
"ugly". The same applies ot tone of voice. Brits (& Australians) seem
mostly less sensitive to insult than Americans but more to sarcasm &
irony. So we can sometimes be rude to you & you don't notice - and we
can be friendly and you think we are being rude. And presumably it works
the other way round as well. The society that invented the breakfast
meeting must have developed many exquisite verbal tortures that us
plainspeaking Brits miss out on.
Ken
From segen at gmx.co.uk Mon Jan 8 00:26:50 2001
From: segen at gmx.co.uk (Segen Tselalu)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 09:26:50 +0100 (MET)
Subject: Crypto Law in Eastern Europe
References: <4546.978940912@www37.gmx.net>
Message-ID: <24240.978942410@www37.gmx.net>
Subject: DES-3DES Encryption - Legal Restriction
Dear Sir-Madame
I am preparing a VPN solution for a Dessertation, using DES 56 bit
and 3DES 3x56 bit encryption . Therefore I would like to ask you if you
are aware of any local legal issues in the following countries. Please
could
you write beside each country, what the situation is.
> > > Azherbeidshan
> > >
> > > Armenia
> > >
> > > Belarus
> > >
> > > Bosnia
> > >
> > > Bulgaria
> > >
> > > Croatia
> > >
> > > Czech Republic
> > >
> > > Estonia
> > >
> > > Georgia
> > >
> > > Greece
> > >
> > > Hungary
> > >
> > > Kazakstan
> > >
> > > Kyrgyzstan
> > >
> > > Lativa
> > >
> > > Lithuania
> > >
> > > Macedonia
> > >
> > > Poland
> > >
> > > Romania
> > >
> > > Russia
> > >
> > > Slovakia
> > >
> > > Turkey
> > >
> > > Ukraine
> > >
> > > Uzbekistan
> > >
> > > Yugoslavia
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance, and keep the good work up.
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > Segen
--
Sent through GMX FreeMail - http://www.gmx.net
From adam at homeport.org Mon Jan 8 07:40:37 2001
From: adam at homeport.org (Adam Shostack)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 10:40:37 -0500
Subject: cell phone anonymity
In-Reply-To:
References: <3A591090.4AFE638@ACM.Org>
Message-ID: <20010108104448.A15487@weathership.homeport.org>
On Mon, Jan 08, 2001 at 12:59:26AM -0500, Ray Dillinger wrote:
| Of course, anonymity is relative; these phones have built-in GPS chips
| for 911 calls, and these are activated from the central office, not by
| a 911-sensing circuit in the handset. IOW, it is not impossible for
| someone with the right gear and knowhow to query the phone for its
| exact latitude and longitude at any moment when it's in use. (I don't
| know whether it can be queried when it's switched off, nor if so whether
| removing the main batteries will stop it). So if you're into hard
There are a couple of location technologies in use. GPS is not (as
far as I know) actually deployed. Much more common is triangulation,
generally without the handset's cooperation. New phones will have
tools in them to help with the triangulation process. All of these
will work if the phone is switched on. GSM phones talk to the network
regularly for call-routing optimization purposes.
The E911 requirements in the US include a requirement for covert
"authorized" querying of the phone's location. Doubtless, this
message will be strongly authenticated by a police-only PKI, and your
phone will log it for later audit purposes.
You might want to look at 3GPP TS 22.071 or 23.171, which can be found
off of http://www.3gpp.org/3G_Specs/3G_Specs.htm
Also, I'll point out that it should be possible to combine the RF
fingerprinting techniques being used to combat cloning with
triangulation techniques, and track phones regardless of what crypto
they're using. You are, after all, carrying around a broadcasting
radio.
Adam
--
"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once."
-Hume
From freeflow at themail.com Sun Jan 7 18:57:03 2001
From: freeflow at themail.com (freeflow at themail.com)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 10:57:03 +0800
Subject: FREE...VisaCard Pays Up To 10 Levels!!!
Message-ID: <200101080257.KAA29741@smtp23.singnet.com.sg>
Hi,
Wishing you a happy and prosperous 2001!
Take a quick look at the Free Visa Card program.
They're giving away free Visa cards with free flight miles on any airline and paying MLM commissions to refer other Cardholders.
They pay out on a huge 10-level plan ($10 for the first level and $2 on the next nine).
You already know how many millions of dollars that kind of multiplication can generate. Nobody buys a thing. The money comes from the bank because of the value of cardholders. This thing is spreading like wildfire. Please check it out.
Request for info!
mailto:amzin at usa.com?subject=Vinfo pls!
Regards.
.................................................................
**This is a one-time mailing. There is no need to remove yourself to stop further mailings.
From ptrei at rsasecurity.com Mon Jan 8 08:01:57 2001
From: ptrei at rsasecurity.com (Trei, Peter)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 11:01:57 -0500
Subject: Functional quantum computer?
Message-ID:
Jim seems to have a real hard time with this concept.
Last week, I privately mailed him a polite letter on
just this issue over a post he sent telling us to look
at slashdot. He responded with obscenities, ordering
me to not send him any more private mail.
I took issue with the tone of his letter (most people
PREFER having their nettiquette lapses pointed out
privately), and responded (politely) to that effect. Jim
evidently felt this was unacceptable, and attempted to
alert my management. I haven't heard from them, and
assume they gave his rant (he included the
corrospondance, with his obscenity laden missive
alternating with my civil language) all the attention it
merited.
Peter Trei
(I'm posting this to the list, as he would seem to
prefer).
> ----------
> From: Jim Choate[SMTP:ravage at ssz.com]
> Reply To: Jim Choate
> Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2001 10:47 AM
> To: cypherpunks at einstein.ssz.com
> Subject: CDR: Re: Functional quantum computer?
>
>
> Hi Meyer,
>
> Unfortunately there is no guarantee the URL is stable either.
>
> The point being you've got the topic and they have a search engine.
>
> On Sun, 7 Jan 2001, Meyer Wolfsheim wrote:
>
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> >
> > On Sun, 7 Jan 2001, Jim Choate wrote:
> >
> > > http://www.sciencedaily.com
> >
> > Choate, you're either a complete moron or the most obstinate person I've
> > ever encountered. One would expect sciencedaily.com's website to change
> > daily. Hence the name. Now, when someone reads this message of yours two
> > weeks from now and wants to see what it is that you were talking about,
> > they're not going to be able to find it. Quantum computing will have
> been
> > replaced by stories of monkeys trading sexual favors for food in the
> front
> > page headlines.
> >
> > "Well, I have to do it this way or Tim will yell at me for posting HTML"
> > you say.
> >
> > Wrong. Post a direct link. Everyone's happy. You don't look stupid. We
> all
> > win.
> >
> > http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2001/01/010105075630.htm
> >
> > Now, is that so hard?
> >
> >
> > - -MW-
> >
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > Version: GnuPG v1.0.3
> > Comment: No comment.
> >
> > iQEVAwUBOliJESsFU3q6vVI9AQETuAf+MFCuR1YIODPVWJT0u9jlUuxga/ICBIXB
> > vOFEXMXfhWGGd1IERVHaUCr5cJFMD2apHJXYDqoWNOwFqUQyQWlk4pNog322kte0
> > pJ9TDJT1Np5xRQB40okyjG1aYzoJ7NFCOdFmEBaTZXfvnKr+ho4npb9gW2MMX5xF
> > e5JY4yn2Ex2im8wQDP2U80oDRW2GOxp10H0bF2cmQYMNt6gJBIa3RCFPVGpNAhuu
> > +t6DfnvhwyU4DTagCwLiD2DR7BwRvr/CF17LR5DAeazWjT98NYHw5XNNKf+a/1S3
> > WpLIQWT8qEb9VJCsdih+dB32twcBz+O5nbWTgwpBOsTb6kC1KvCZZw==
> > =xByv
> > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> >
>
From bear at sonic.net Mon Jan 8 08:11:03 2001
From: bear at sonic.net (Ray Dillinger)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 11:11:03 -0500
Subject: cell phone anonymity
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:
On Mon, 8 Jan 2001, Phillip Zakas wrote:
>
>Just a minor correction to the below posting: cell phone locations are NOT
>calculated using GPS. They're triangulated via the three nearest cell sites
>reading the cell phone signal. Accuracy is much lower than with GPS, but
>good enough for cops to, say, find a stranded motorist on a highway. I
>believe resolution is somewhere around 40 meters in densely populated areas
>(where there are many cell phone towers). This resolution figure varies
>from region to region.
>
Hm. Okay. I knew there were locators in them, and had assumed that
they were GPS. My mistake.
Does anyone know any particulars about whether these phones can be
queried for their locations while not in use?
>IMHO, the real privacy issue with cell phones is the security of a
>conversation.
Yes indeed. Privacy is a tougher thing to achieve than anonymity,
at least with cell phones.
Bear
From larsg at trustix.com Mon Jan 8 02:30:42 2001
From: larsg at trustix.com (Lars Gaarden)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 11:30:42 +0100
Subject: Crypto Law in Eastern Europe
References: <4546.978940912@www37.gmx.net> <24240.978942410@www37.gmx.net>
Message-ID: <3A5996D2.2682BC8E@trustix.com>
Segen Tselalu wrote:
>
> Subject: DES-3DES Encryption - Legal Restriction
>
> Dear Sir-Madame
>
> I am preparing a VPN solution for a Dessertation, using DES 56 bit
> and 3DES 3x56 bit encryption . Therefore I would like to ask you if you
> are aware of any local legal issues in the following countries. Please
> could
> you write beside each country, what the situation is.
The following link should give you the answer to at
least a few of the countries.
http://cwis.kub.nl/~frw/people/koops/lawsurvy.htm#toc
--
LarsG
From roy at scytale.com Mon Jan 8 08:39:06 2001
From: roy at scytale.com (Roy Silvernail)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 11:39:06 -0500
Subject: CPS-2 Broken
Message-ID: <000501c07991$569184d0$1301a8c0@rms.acroloop.com>
-----Original Message-----
X-Loop: openpgp.net
From: Jim Choate
To: Multiple recipients of list
Date: Monday, January 08, 2001 10:17 AM
Subject: CPS-2 Broken
>
>http://slashdot.org
Christ, Choate! Is it SO bloody hard to do a proper link?
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/01/07/0246252
Note that 15 minutes after you posted this non-pointer, the story had
already slid off the Slashdot front page.
--
Roy M. Silvernail
Proprietor, scytale.com
roy at scytale.com
From pzakas at toucancapital.com Mon Jan 8 08:39:50 2001
From: pzakas at toucancapital.com (Phillip H. Zakas)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 11:39:50 -0500
Subject: cell phone anonymity
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:
Hi,
I don't believe cell phones can be queried while they're off. The phone has
to xmit a pulse (to hear a pulse, crank up your PC speakers, turn on your
cell phone and place it within 3 inces of a speaker...you'll hear the
speakers produce static at a regular interval [about every 30 seconds or so
with my startac]). In an unscientific study, I've placed my cell phone,
turned off, next to the speakers and not heard the familiar pulse. Also
since you posed the question I ripped open my recently acquired Motorolla
Timeport. Not seeing any activity in the xmit circuitry when the battery is
plugged in and the power is turned off. Of course I'm having trouble
putting the case back on the phone correctly but I'll figure that out later
;)
phillip zakas
-----Original Message-----
X-Loop: openpgp.net
From: Ray Dillinger [mailto:bear at sonic.net]
Sent: Monday, January 08, 2001 11:10 AM
To: Phillip Zakas
Cc: Multiple recipients of list
Subject: RE: cell phone anonymity
On Mon, 8 Jan 2001, Phillip Zakas wrote:
>
>Just a minor correction to the below posting: cell phone locations are NOT
>calculated using GPS. They're triangulated via the three nearest cell
sites
>reading the cell phone signal. Accuracy is much lower than with GPS, but
>good enough for cops to, say, find a stranded motorist on a highway. I
>believe resolution is somewhere around 40 meters in densely populated areas
>(where there are many cell phone towers). This resolution figure varies
>from region to region.
>
Hm. Okay. I knew there were locators in them, and had assumed that
they were GPS. My mistake.
Does anyone know any particulars about whether these phones can be
queried for their locations while not in use?
>IMHO, the real privacy issue with cell phones is the security of a
>conversation.
Yes indeed. Privacy is a tougher thing to achieve than anonymity,
at least with cell phones.
Bear
From gbartoo at NYCAP.rr.com Mon Jan 8 08:45:00 2001
From: gbartoo at NYCAP.rr.com (Gerald Bartoo)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 11:45:00 -0500
Subject: Echelon
Message-ID: <000a01c07992$58eeb940$f637a118@nycap.rr.com>
This piece about the Norwegian Police being able to monitor cellular phones is only part of the international conspiracy maintaiened by Governments to monitor all communications by those it considers to be subversive under ECHELON type activities.
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From k.brown at ccs.bbk.ac.uk Mon Jan 8 04:35:54 2001
From: k.brown at ccs.bbk.ac.uk (Ken Brown)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 12:35:54 +0000
Subject: cell phone anonymity
References: <20010107180655.34471.qmail@web11403.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3A59B42A.F5472FAB@ccs.bbk.ac.uk>
Trivial in UK - walk into shop, pick one off shelves, walk to counter,
pay money. They sell them in supermarkets & video rental shops now.
Last year's most common Christmas present. My Mum and my daughter both
got one. When you open the packet you can start talking within minutes.
The battery even had charge on it. There was bumf asking you to
"register" for which you got 5 pounds "free call time" but nothing to
stop you making calls without registering.
Ken
montag montag wrote:
>
> Please post the actual experiences about obtaining a
> pre-paid cell phone (aka "mobile" in the less
> developed
> world) without revealing any (correct) identifying
> info,
> such as address, telephone no, name, etc.
>
> I know that it can be done in Canada. Unsure about US,
> UK and the rest of europe.
>
> regards,
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!
> http://photos.yahoo.com/
From tcmay at got.net Mon Jan 8 09:38:47 2001
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 12:38:47 -0500
Subject: Anglo-American communications studies
In-Reply-To: <3A59BDDD.F3CE6BA5@ccs.bbk.ac.uk>
References:
Message-ID:
At 8:17 AM -0500 1/8/01, Ken Brown wrote:
>
>Anyway - I heard Americans on the TV last week talking about "railway"
>instead of "railroad". And "station" instead of "depot" (though Grand
>Central Station is I suppose quite old, so you must have had that one
>for a while)
The most interesting Britishism to suddenly invade our shores and
spread rapidly is "gone missing." I'm now hearing this in American
movies, t.v. shows, and, importantly, television news. "The hunt is
on for the fugitives in Texas who have gone missing." This is
definitely new to our shores; I'm surprised (and pleased) at how
rapidly it has spread.
"At university" and "at hospital" have not become common (though "at
college" and "at school" are fully equivalent and are common).
>
>As you said:
>
>> Fact is, both dialects of English have longer versions of the same
>> basic word than other dialects have.
>> Which is preferable is a matter of taste and familiarity.
>
>and there are very few opportunities for real misunderstanding. We know
>"Randy" is a name in the US, even if we snigger when we hear it, and any
>American spending more than 5 minutes in Britain UK would find out that
>a "fag" is a cigarette, so no harm done.
You must be a bum.
--Tim May
--
Timothy C. May tcmay at got.net Corralitos, California
Political: Co-founder Cypherpunks/crypto anarchy/Cyphernomicon
Technical: physics/soft errors/Smalltalk/Squeak/agents/games/Go
Personal: b.1951/UCSB/Intel '74-'86/retired/investor/motorcycles/guns
From declan at well.com Mon Jan 8 10:07:03 2001
From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 13:07:03 -0500
Subject: cell phone anonymity
In-Reply-To: ; from pzakas@toucancapital.com on Mon, Jan 08, 2001 at 03:10:55AM -0500
References:
Message-ID: <20010108123015.A27769@cluebot.com>
On Mon, Jan 08, 2001 at 03:10:55AM -0500, Phillip Zakas wrote:
>
> Just a minor correction to the below posting: cell phone locations are NOT
> calculated using GPS. They're triangulated via the three nearest cell sites
> reading the cell phone signal. Accuracy is much lower than with GPS, but
> good enough for cops to, say, find a stranded motorist on a highway. I
> believe resolution is somewhere around 40 meters in densely populated areas
> (where there are many cell phone towers). This resolution figure varies
For now; future trends include GPS. See an article I wrote below.
-Declan
http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,40623,00.html
Qualcomm, for instance, said that its gpsONE technology shifts the
choice to whomever is holding the handset. The user has three choices:
a default of always on or always off, the option of deciding every
time the device is used, or choosing which applications will reveal
the information.
The company argues that providing its customers with that flexibility
will give them even more options than they enjoy with landline phones,
which often reveal the subscription address of the person paying for
the service. The gpsONE technology, which uses both GPS technology and
base station triangulation, can locate a user within a diameter of 5
to 15 meters outdoors, and 30 to 60 meters indoors.
From jfoti at nist.gov Mon Jan 8 10:20:18 2001
From: jfoti at nist.gov (Jim Foti)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 13:20:18 -0500
Subject: Update on NIST crypto standards
Message-ID:
Hello-
Here is a brief update on NIST's crypto standards efforts:
1. On January 5, 2001, we announced a Draft FIPS for HMAC (Keyed-Hash
Message Authentication Code) that is a generalization of HMAC as specified
in Internet RFC 2104 and ANSI X9.71. A 90-day public comment period ends
April 5, 2001. Details are available at .
2. On January 2, 2001, we posted a white paper that discusses our plans
for developing standards and recommendations for public key-based key
management. This will be a two-part process, involving the development of
1) a scheme definition document, and 2) a key management guideline. This
paper is available at .
3. The Draft FIPS for the AES is anticipated for release for public review
in the very near future. Final approvals for the release of this document
are pending. When an announcement is made, information on the draft and
for providing public comments will be available at .
Best regards and Happy New Year,
Jim
[This note is being sent to those people who have attended any of NIST's
AES conferences, the Key Management Standard (KMS) workshop in February
2000, the Modes of Operation workshop in October 2000, or who have
expressed other interest in our efforts. If you would not like to receive
similar notices in the future (which should be infrequent), please let me
know, and we will remove you from our email distribution list.]
*******************************************************************
Jim Foti
Computer Security Division
Information Technology Laboratory
National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST)
100 Bureau Drive, Mail Stop 8930
Gaithersburg, MD 20899-8930
USA
TEL: (301) 975-5237
FAX: (301) 948-1233
jfoti at nist.gov
*******************************************************************
------- End of Forwarded Message
--Steve Bellovin
From ptrei at rsasecurity.com Mon Jan 8 10:23:45 2001
From: ptrei at rsasecurity.com (Trei, Peter)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 13:23:45 -0500
Subject: cell phone anonymity
Message-ID:
Experience in Scotland this summer:
Walk into store.
Plunk down 40 pounds + VAT.
Pick up boxed phone.
Walk out.
> ----------
> From: montag montag[SMTP:cels451 at yahoo.com]
> Reply To: montag montag
> Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2001 1:06 PM
> To: cypherpunks at toad.com
> Subject: cell phone anonymity
>
> Please post the actual experiences about obtaining a
> pre-paid cell phone (aka "mobile" in the less
> developed
> world) without revealing any (correct) identifying
> info,
> such as address, telephone no, name, etc.
>
> I know that it can be done in Canada. Unsure about US,
> UK and the rest of europe.
>
> regards,
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!
> http://photos.yahoo.com/
>
From declan at well.com Mon Jan 8 10:24:40 2001
From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 13:24:40 -0500
Subject: cell phone anonymity
In-Reply-To: <20010108104448.A15487@weathership.homeport.org>; from adam@homeport.org on Mon, Jan 08, 2001 at 10:40:37AM -0500
References: <3A591090.4AFE638@ACM.Org> <20010108104448.A15487@weathership.homeport.org>
Message-ID: <20010108123208.B27769@cluebot.com>
On Mon, Jan 08, 2001 at 10:40:37AM -0500, Adam Shostack wrote:
> The E911 requirements in the US include a requirement for covert
> "authorized" querying of the phone's location. Doubtless, this
> message will be strongly authenticated by a police-only PKI, and your
> phone will log it for later audit purposes.
Yes. See:
http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,40623,00.html
Probably the biggest push toward including location information came,
ironically enough, from the federal government. In 1996 the Federal
Communications Commission began the lengthy process of requiring
cell-phone companies to build location-broadcasting
The justification: enhanced 911 service, which lets emergency workers
find you when you're on the road.
The FCC required that of all the handsets sold by carriers by December
2001, 25 percent must support location broadcasts, and 100 percent
must by December 2002. By December 2005, 95 percent of all handsets in
use must be able to broadcast location data, tNow that the regulations
are in place -- status reports were due last month -- businesses are
considering what else to do with the features.
-Declan
From tcmay at got.net Mon Jan 8 10:44:14 2001
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 13:44:14 -0500
Subject: cell phone anonymity
In-Reply-To:
References:
Message-ID:
At 12:59 AM -0500 1/8/01, Ray Dillinger wrote:
>On the larger purchases, the costs drop down to the forty-cents-a-minute
>range. Totally worth it if you really *need* anonymity on the phone.
>
>Of course, anonymity is relative; these phones have built-in GPS chips
>for 911 calls, and these are activated from the central office, not by
Which of these phones have built-in GPS? Gonna be a real shock to
Trimble, Magellan, and Garmin that the GPS units they're still
selling for $100 and up are competing with cellphones given out free
with new accounts!
GPS is getting cheaper, and may someday appear in even inexpensive
cellphones, but that day has not yet come.
>a 911-sensing circuit in the handset. IOW, it is not impossible for
>someone with the right gear and knowhow to query the phone for its
>exact latitude and longitude at any moment when it's in use.
Why do you believe this to be so?
>(I don't
>know whether it can be queried when it's switched off, nor if so whether
>removing the main batteries will stop it).
A backup battery is likely only usable for the local storage of
temporary parameters, and probably not even that. I don't recall any
mention with either my Motorola Star-Tac or my current Nokia about
backup batteries.
Which means that when the main battery pack is removed, the circuitry
is "OFF." No power to transmit. (And forget passive sensing, as with
some radio or t.v. tuning coils of old, as that required being very
close to the coils to detect resonances. And no longer even
applicable, what with digital tuners.)
> So if you're into hard
>anonymity, keep it inside a faraday cage when you're not using it and
>don't use it from inside your own dwelling.
>
>Faraday cages don't have to be fancy; a fruitcake tin will usually do.
Removing the battery is easier. Turning the phone off is _probably_
(I am convinced of this, but haven't studied it in detail) enough to
stop any location detection, at least with the current generations of
cellphones.
(The very long battery life of a turned-off Nokia vs. a turned-on
Nokia tells us a lot about what it could possibly be transmitting.)
As for Faraday cages, there are easier options that a fruitcake tin.
Reception is bad enough in mountainous areas like mine.
Ray, you seem knowledgeable in some areas. But your pontifications on
California basements, cellphone GPS, etc., are very "Choatean" in
nature. Something you might want to look at.
--Tim May
--
Timothy C. May tcmay at got.net Corralitos, California
Political: Co-founder Cypherpunks/crypto anarchy/Cyphernomicon
Technical: physics/soft errors/Smalltalk/Squeak/agents/games/Go
Personal: b.1951/UCSB/Intel '74-'86/retired/investor/motorcycles/guns
From bram at gawth.com Mon Jan 8 14:03:37 2001
From: bram at gawth.com (Bram Cohen)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 14:03:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Steven Levy Book Tour
In-Reply-To: <200101072336.SAA31519@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID:
On Sun, 7 Jan 2001, John Young wrote:
> "CRYPTO: How the Code Rebels Beat the Government - Saving
> Privacy in the Digital Age."
Yeah, I can remember back in the days before almost all mail was
encrypted, and when nearly all online transactions were done via credit
card.
Boy am I glad those days are over.
-Bram Cohen
"Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent"
-- John Maynard Keynes
From bear at sonic.net Mon Jan 8 11:14:43 2001
From: bear at sonic.net (Ray Dillinger)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 14:14:43 -0500
Subject: cell phone anonymity
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:
This pretty much kiboshes the idea that they might be continuously
broadcasting; I'm more concerned about the idea that there may be
some signal they're passively listening for, to which they will
*respond* with a pulse signalling their location.
Bear
On Mon, 8 Jan 2001, Phillip H. Zakas wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I don't believe cell phones can be queried while they're off. The phone has
>to xmit a pulse (to hear a pulse, crank up your PC speakers, turn on your
>cell phone and place it within 3 inces of a speaker...you'll hear the
>speakers produce static at a regular interval [about every 30 seconds or so
>with my startac]). In an unscientific study, I've placed my cell phone,
>turned off, next to the speakers and not heard the familiar pulse. Also
>since you posed the question I ripped open my recently acquired Motorolla
>Timeport. Not seeing any activity in the xmit circuitry when the battery is
>plugged in and the power is turned off. Of course I'm having trouble
>putting the case back on the phone correctly but I'll figure that out later
>;)
>
>phillip zakas
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>X-Loop: openpgp.net
>From: Ray Dillinger [mailto:bear at sonic.net]
>Sent: Monday, January 08, 2001 11:10 AM
>To: Phillip Zakas
>Cc: Multiple recipients of list
>Subject: RE: cell phone anonymity
>
>
>
>
>On Mon, 8 Jan 2001, Phillip Zakas wrote:
>
>>
>>Just a minor correction to the below posting: cell phone locations are NOT
>>calculated using GPS. They're triangulated via the three nearest cell
>sites
>>reading the cell phone signal. Accuracy is much lower than with GPS, but
>>good enough for cops to, say, find a stranded motorist on a highway. I
>>believe resolution is somewhere around 40 meters in densely populated areas
>>(where there are many cell phone towers). This resolution figure varies
>>from region to region.
>>
>
>Hm. Okay. I knew there were locators in them, and had assumed that
>they were GPS. My mistake.
>
>Does anyone know any particulars about whether these phones can be
>queried for their locations while not in use?
>
>
>>IMHO, the real privacy issue with cell phones is the security of a
>>conversation.
>
>Yes indeed. Privacy is a tougher thing to achieve than anonymity,
>at least with cell phones.
>
> Bear
>
>
>
>
>
>
From adam at homeport.org Mon Jan 8 11:17:45 2001
From: adam at homeport.org (Adam Shostack)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 14:17:45 -0500
Subject: cell phone anonymity
In-Reply-To:
References:
Message-ID: <20010108142146.A17321@weathership.homeport.org>
On Mon, Jan 08, 2001 at 11:11:03AM -0500, Ray Dillinger wrote:
| Does anyone know any particulars about whether these phones can be
| queried for their locations while not in use?
Define use.
If your phone is on, it can be queried for location. I strongly
recommend reading the fine specifications for this stuff.
--
"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once."
-Hume
From mclow at owl.csusm.edu Mon Jan 8 15:04:39 2001
From: mclow at owl.csusm.edu (Marshall Clow)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 15:04:39 -0800
Subject: cell phone anonymity
In-Reply-To: <20010108142422.A6844@ideath.parrhesia.com>
References:
<20010108142422.A6844@ideath.parrhesia.com>
Message-ID:
>Indeed, Motorola has done a good job building their pagers so that they'll
>run a long time on a relatively small battery, because they've got internal
>timers which shut down even the receive circuitry between transmission
>cycles; they wake up every so often to listen for pages, then go back to
>sleep - if they go outside a coverage area, the battery life drops
>substantially because the receive circuitry is active full-time waiting
>to find a familiar signal.
>
>I have no information that this technique has been used in cellphones - or
>will be - but it's already in consumer-grade technology that's been shipping
>in volume for years now. So it's certainly not difficult to build a
>wireless device which remains active on very low power, waiting for a
>signal from its Real Owner to wake up and do something.
The PCS cell phones that I have owned all had this property as well.
When there is no coverage, the battery life drops dramatically.
However, after about 15 minutes of this, the phone goes into "power save"
mode, in which it doesn't listen all the time.
--
-- Marshall
Marshall Clow Idio Software
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed,
the hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
From pzakas at toucancapital.com Mon Jan 8 12:23:57 2001
From: pzakas at toucancapital.com (Phillip H. Zakas)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 15:23:57 -0500
Subject: cell phone anonymity
In-Reply-To: <20010108123015.A27769@cluebot.com>
Message-ID:
Thanks for pointing out the article -- love learning new things. Didn't
realize companies were moving so quickly to GPS. Not sure how well it would
work in urban areas or buildings (hence I guess the two mode system of
triangulation and GPS in one).
phillip
-----Original Message-----
X-Loop: openpgp.net
From: owner-cypherpunks at Algebra.COM
[mailto:owner-cypherpunks at Algebra.COM]On Behalf Of Declan McCullagh
Sent: Monday, January 08, 2001 1:07 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list
Subject: Re: cell phone anonymity
On Mon, Jan 08, 2001 at 03:10:55AM -0500, Phillip Zakas wrote:
>
> Just a minor correction to the below posting: cell phone locations are NOT
> calculated using GPS. They're triangulated via the three nearest cell
sites
> reading the cell phone signal. Accuracy is much lower than with GPS, but
> good enough for cops to, say, find a stranded motorist on a highway. I
> believe resolution is somewhere around 40 meters in densely populated
areas
> (where there are many cell phone towers). This resolution figure varies
For now; future trends include GPS. See an article I wrote below.
-Declan
http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,40623,00.html
Qualcomm, for instance, said that its gpsONE technology shifts the
choice to whomever is holding the handset. The user has three choices:
a default of always on or always off, the option of deciding every
time the device is used, or choosing which applications will reveal
the information.
The company argues that providing its customers with that flexibility
will give them even more options than they enjoy with landline phones,
which often reveal the subscription address of the person paying for
the service. The gpsONE technology, which uses both GPS technology and
base station triangulation, can locate a user within a diameter of 5
to 15 meters outdoors, and 30 to 60 meters indoors.
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From: usernameprom at earthlink.net (usernameprom at earthlink.net)
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From jdd at vbc.net Mon Jan 8 12:54:06 2001
From: jdd at vbc.net (Jim Dixon)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 15:54:06 -0500
Subject: Anglo-American communications studies
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:
[Apologies for continuing this odd thread but ...]
On Mon, 8 Jan 2001, Tim May wrote:
> >Anyway - I heard Americans on the TV last week talking about "railway"
> >instead of "railroad". And "station" instead of "depot" (though Grand
> >Central Station is I suppose quite old, so you must have had that one
> >for a while)
>
> The most interesting Britishism to suddenly invade our shores and
> spread rapidly is "gone missing." I'm now hearing this in American
> movies, t.v. shows, and, importantly, television news. "The hunt is
> on for the fugitives in Texas who have gone missing." This is
> definitely new to our shores; I'm surprised (and pleased) at how
> rapidly it has spread.
>
> "At university" and "at hospital" have not become common (though "at
The more common British term is "in hospital". I don't recall
ever hearing anyone say "at hospital".
There are innumerable small distinctions in usage . If you are
in hospital, you are ill, not a member of the staff.
Your being ill may the result of an injury. That is, the same
term covers both sicknesses and injuries. If you are in hospital
because of a broken back, people will say that you are ill.
If you are sick, on the other hand, it means that you have vomited.
> college" and "at school" are fully equivalent and are common).
They aren't equivalent at all. In the UK [young] children go to
"school" and "college" generally refers to something very roughly
equivalent to either an American senior high school or junior
college. My company has university students spending a year or
so with us on placement; if you ask them when they are going back
to school, they tend to be offended, thinking you are poking fun at
them. Taking the mickey, that is.
--
Jim Dixon VBCnet GB Ltd http://www.vbc.net
tel +44 117 929 1316 fax +44 117 927 2015
From honig at sprynet.com Mon Jan 8 13:02:38 2001
From: honig at sprynet.com (David Honig)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 16:02:38 -0500
Subject: Anglo-American communications studies
In-Reply-To: <3A59BDDD.F3CE6BA5@ccs.bbk.ac.uk>
References:
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010108125838.007c7100@pop.sprynet.com>
At 08:17 AM 1/8/01 -0500, Ken Brown wrote:
>and there are very few opportunities for real misunderstanding. We know
The meaning of 'billion' differs by three orders of magnitude
across the pond. That's plenty of room for confusion :-)
From honig at sprynet.com Mon Jan 8 13:16:10 2001
From: honig at sprynet.com (David Honig)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 16:16:10 -0500
Subject: Anglo-American communications studies
In-Reply-To:
References: <3A59BDDD.F3CE6BA5@ccs.bbk.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010108131326.007d67a0@pop.sprynet.com>
>>and there are very few opportunities for real misunderstanding.
So Ken if you read that Blair was near Thatcher's house and knocked
her up, Yanks would think something very different from Brits.
From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Mon Jan 8 14:18:25 2001
From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 16:18:25 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Functional quantum computer?
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:
On Mon, 8 Jan 2001, Trei, Peter wrote:
> Jim seems to have a real hard time with this concept.
By the bitching you and others are making it's not I who has the problem.
I have none (zero, nadah, null, nil).
> Last week, I privately mailed him a polite letter on
And I told you to stop, you didn't. Don't give me consideration then don't
bitch when you don't get it.
____________________________________________________________________
Before a larger group can see the virtue of an idea, a
smaller group must first understand it.
"Stranger Suns"
George Zebrowski
The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate
Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com
www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087
-====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From k_quy at IVER.bighits.com Mon Jan 8 16:49:42 2001
From: k_quy at IVER.bighits.com (k_quy at IVER.bighits.com)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 16:49:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: New MILL - time to make money with YOUR PC - cypherpunks! -XIVV
Message-ID: <200101090049.QAA07088@cyberpass.net>
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From mmotyka at lsil.com Mon Jan 8 13:57:49 2001
From: mmotyka at lsil.com (mmotyka at lsil.com)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 16:57:49 -0500
Subject: Anglo-American communications studies
Message-ID: <3A5A3897.6C5EC6F9@lsil.com>
>>>and there are very few opportunities for real misunderstanding.
>
>So Ken if you read that Blair was near Thatcher's house and knocked
>her up, Yanks would think something very different from Brits.
>
That's where technology can help : catch it on video.
From jya at pipeline.com Mon Jan 8 14:09:49 2001
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 17:09:49 -0500
Subject: Bell Case Subpoena
Message-ID: <200101082217.RAA29708@johnson.mail.mindspring.net>
Today at 4:30 PM two Treasury agents, Tom Jack and Matthew
Mc Whirr, served me a Subpoena to Testify Before Grand Jury,
in US District Court of Western Washington, Seattle, WA, on
January 25, 2001, 9:00 AM. Robb London, AUSA, is the
applicant.
The agents asked no questions except to verify my identity.
The principal agent, Mr. Jack, referred me to Special Agent
Jeff Gordon for questions if I had any, and presented a note
with Jeff's name, title, Treasury office, and phone number.
Mr. Jack said they knew nothing about the case and were only
serving the subpoena. I asked for Mr. McWhirr's name, borrowed
his pen to jot both names -- neither had cards, only badges to
show. Mr. Jack said they were with Treasury Inspector
General for Tax Adminstration (TIGTA), as is Jeff.
The date of the subpoena is December 27, 2000, and was
faxed to New York at 8:36 AM today.
The subpoena states in bold caps "We request that you do not
disclose the existence of this subpoena, because such a
disclosure may make it more difficult to conduct the investigation."
The subpoena is one page, with two pages of attachments,
one titled "Information for Grand Jury Witnesses," the other
a description of arrangements for reimbursement of
expenses.
The subpoena orders:
You are commanded to appear and testify before the Grand
Jury at place, date and time (as given above).
And,
You are also commanded to bring with you the following
document(s) or object(s):
Please provide any and all documents, papers, letters, computer
disks, photographs, notes, objects, information, or other items
in your possession or under your control, including electronically
stored or computer records, which:
1. Name, mention, describe, discuss, involve or relate to James
Dalton Bell, a/k/a Jim Bell, or
2. Were previously possessed, owned, created, sent by, transported,
or oftherwise affiliated with James Dalton Bell, a/k/a Jim Bell, or
3. Contain the names, addresses, license plate numbers, or any
other identifying information involving any Government employees.
This subpoena shall remain in effect until you are granted leave to
depart by the court or by an officer acting on behalf of the court.
-----
We'll do a full transcription of the whole shebang to post on Cryptome
tonight.
Nothing in the subpoena indicates that it is restricted to the current
interstate stalking charges against Jim. Those charges are
not mentioned.
Anybody else who got one of these, or other subpoenas, and
wants to share send it over. Our fax: 212-787-6102. Delete any
info you don't want to be public.
From Courses at raven-villages.net Mon Jan 8 14:16:55 2001
From: Courses at raven-villages.net (webmaster)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 17:16:55 -0500
Subject: FREE COURSES JUST FOR YOU !!
Message-ID: <200101090432.UAA05099@toad.com>
Disclaimer: =====================================
Our research indicates this information may be of interest to you. If you
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Lifelong Learning is the key to success!
From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Mon Jan 8 15:18:24 2001
From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 17:18:24 -0600 (CST)
Subject: History Channel television show on NSA (fwd)
Message-ID:
____________________________________________________________________
Before a larger group can see the virtue of an idea, a
smaller group must first understand it.
"Stranger Suns"
George Zebrowski
The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate
Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com
www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087
-====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
--------------------------------------------------------------------
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 16:38:19 -0500 (EST)
From: "P.J. Ponder"
To: cryptography at c2.net
Subject: History Channel television show on NSA
The 'History Channel' cable TV network will air a show about the NSA
tomorrow night January 8, at 8 pm Eastern. Their website says this about
it:
America's Most Secret Agency
The National Security Agency, America's most secret and controversial
agency, is charged with safeguarding the nation's strategic intelligence
information and decoding the secret communications of our enemies. For
only the second time in its nearly 50 year history, the N.S.A. allowed
cameras inside its Ft. Meade, Maryland, headquarters, and the director,
Lt. General Michael V. Hayden, sits for a rare interview and addresses
issues such as privacy. Tune in and find out if Big Brother is watching
you!
From gbroiles at netbox.com Mon Jan 8 14:24:31 2001
From: gbroiles at netbox.com (Greg Broiles)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 17:24:31 -0500
Subject: cell phone anonymity
In-Reply-To: ; from bear@sonic.net on Mon, Jan 08, 2001 at 02:14:43PM -0500
References:
Message-ID: <20010108142422.A6844@ideath.parrhesia.com>
On Mon, Jan 08, 2001 at 02:14:43PM -0500, Ray Dillinger wrote:
>
> This pretty much kiboshes the idea that they might be continuously
> broadcasting; I'm more concerned about the idea that there may be
> some signal they're passively listening for, to which they will
> *respond* with a pulse signalling their location.
Indeed, Motorola has done a good job building their pagers so that they'll
run a long time on a relatively small battery, because they've got internal
timers which shut down even the receive circuitry between transmission
cycles; they wake up every so often to listen for pages, then go back to
sleep - if they go outside a coverage area, the battery life drops
substantially because the receive circuitry is active full-time waiting
to find a familiar signal.
I have no information that this technique has been used in cellphones - or
will be - but it's already in consumer-grade technology that's been shipping
in volume for years now. So it's certainly not difficult to build a
wireless device which remains active on very low power, waiting for a
signal from its Real Owner to wake up and do something.
--
Greg Broiles gbroiles at netbox.com
PO Box 897
Oakland CA 94604
From bear at sonic.net Mon Jan 8 14:31:15 2001
From: bear at sonic.net (Ray Dillinger)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 17:31:15 -0500
Subject: Anglo-American communications studies
In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20010108125838.007c7100@pop.sprynet.com>
Message-ID:
On Mon, 8 Jan 2001, David Honig wrote:
>At 08:17 AM 1/8/01 -0500, Ken Brown wrote:
>>and there are very few opportunities for real misunderstanding. We know
>
>The meaning of 'billion' differs by three orders of magnitude
>across the pond. That's plenty of room for confusion :-)
>
And in the US, "billiards" is a game played with cues and balls
on a felt-covered slate table. In the UK, it's also a very large
number. Thankfully, so large that that definition rarely comes
into conversation. As I understand cross-pond conversions, it
goes like this....
USA UK Scientific
Thousand Thousand 1E3
Million Million 1E6
Billion Milliard 1E9
Trillion Billion 1E12
Quadrillion Billiard 1E15
Quintillion Trillion 1E18
Sextillion Trilliard 1E21
Septillion Quadrillion 1E24
Octillion Quadrilliard 1E27
etc etc etc
This silliness seems regular, and has no good reason not to
extend indefinitely. But perversely, both dialects use the
same word for googols and larger quantities.
This is one reason why I tend to just say "screw it" and go to
scientific notation when writing. That way it's clear what I
mean no matter where the reader is from.
Bear
From jburnes at savvis.net Mon Jan 8 15:35:09 2001
From: jburnes at savvis.net (Jim Burnes)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 17:35:09 -0600
Subject: Bell Case Subpoena
In-Reply-To: <200101082217.RAA29708@johnson.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <200101082217.RAA29708@johnson.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <01010817350909.03765@reality.eng.savvis.net>
On Monday 08 January 2001 16:09, John Young wrote:
> You are also commanded to bring with you the following
> document(s) or object(s):
>
> Please provide any and all documents, papers, letters, computer
> disks, photographs, notes, objects, information, or other items
> in your possession or under your control, including electronically
> stored or computer records, which:
>
> 1. Name, mention, describe, discuss, involve or relate to James
> Dalton Bell, a/k/a Jim Bell, or
>
> 2. Were previously possessed, owned, created, sent by, transported,
> or oftherwise affiliated with James Dalton Bell, a/k/a Jim Bell, or
How would you know if it was sent by him unless it had a digital signature
that you are willing to testify in court was know to belong to him and
had not been comprimised?
jim
--
Sometimes it is said that man can not be trusted with the government of
himself. Can he, then, be trusted with the government of others? Or have we
found angels in the forms of kings to govern him? Let history answer this
question. -- Thomas Jefferson, 1st Inaugural
From commerce at home.com Mon Jan 8 15:10:08 2001
From: commerce at home.com (Me)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 18:10:08 -0500
Subject: Bell Case Subpoena
References: <200101082217.RAA29708@johnson.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <015801c079c8$256aa4e0$0100a8c0@golem>
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Young"
> Please provide any and all documents, papers, letters,
computer
> disks, photographs, notes, objects, information, or other
items
> in your possession or under your control, including
electronically
> stored or computer records, which:
> 3. Contain the names, addresses, license plate numbers, or
any
> other identifying information involving any Government
employees.
Will they pay any transportation (airline) expenses before the
appearance?
If so, I have a large number of old newspapers and phone-books to
give you.
From webtise at webtise.org Mon Jan 8 16:13:16 2001
From: webtise at webtise.org (LOOK HERE!)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 18:13:16 -0600
Subject: BORROW $100,000 AND NEVER PAY IT BACK
Message-ID: <200101082311.f08NBq421910@smtp-2u-1.atlantic.net>
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From: info at giganetstore.com (info at giganetstore.com)
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From cels451 at yahoo.com Mon Jan 8 19:57:15 2001
From: cels451 at yahoo.com (montag montag)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 19:57:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Bell Case Subpoena
Message-ID: <20010109035715.20514.qmail@web11406.mail.yahoo.com>
>The purpose of the alleged grand jury of my subpoena
is a
>mystery, but it's surely ham sandwich bait of some
kind. An
>invitation to perjure or self-incriminate.
Look at the bright side - authugrities are afraid.
Using the
only "legal" recourse left - grand jury sub - to
silence and
intimidate is a clear sign of fear. These are good
times. In bad
times a pot joint would be discovered on JYA premises.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
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From wm5288 at yahoo.com Mon Jan 8 18:00:00 2001
From: wm5288 at yahoo.com (Wonka)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 20:00:00 -0600
Subject: Thousands Are Joining-Monthly for FREE
Message-ID: <200101080600.WAA12260@toad.com>
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From jya at pipeline.com Mon Jan 8 17:09:37 2001
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 20:09:37 -0500
Subject: Bell Case Subpoena
In-Reply-To: <01010817350909.03765@reality.eng.savvis.net>
References: <200101082217.RAA29708@johnson.mail.mindspring.net>
<200101082217.RAA29708@johnson.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <200101090117.UAA15684@barry.mail.mindspring.net>
Jim burnes wrote:
>How would you know if it was sent by him unless it had a digital signature
>that you are willing to testify in court was know to belong to him and
>had not been comprimised?
Right. Nor could I know that "Jim Bell" who's was posting to cpunks
is Jim Bell or a Jim Bell being run by London/Gordon et cie.
Remember that a parallel grand jury investigation was announced
during CJ's trial to spook those who might consider tampering with
blind justice. Then nothing more was heard of that Robb shot, as
far as I know.
The purpose of the alleged grand jury of my subpoena is a
mystery, but it's surely ham sandwich bait of some kind. An
invitation to perjure or self-incriminate.
Jim Bell is, and has been, fed bait since he was released.
Whether he was that before his first bust, that's a reasonable
question. Bell's shit certainly bred to CJ's shafting.
WWA pack believe they've got a winning campaign to keep
on trucking, using secret agents of persuasion.
From reeza at flex.com Mon Jan 8 22:55:56 2001
From: reeza at flex.com (Reese)
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 20:55:56 -1000
Subject: Functional quantum computer?
In-Reply-To:
References:
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010108205524.00b00f00@flex.com>
Jimbo's a real piece of work, ain't he?
At 04:18 PM 1/8/01 -0600, Jim Choate wrote:
>
>On Mon, 8 Jan 2001, Trei, Peter wrote:
>
>> Jim seems to have a real hard time with this concept.
>
>By the bitching you and others are making it's not I who has the problem.
>I have none (zero, nadah, null, nil).
>
>> Last week, I privately mailed him a polite letter on
>
>And I told you to stop, you didn't. Don't give me consideration then don't
>bitch when you don't get it.
>
> ____________________________________________________________________
>
> Before a larger group can see the virtue of an idea, a
> smaller group must first understand it.
>
> "Stranger Suns"
> George Zebrowski
>
> The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate
> Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com
> www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087
> -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
From tcmay at got.net Mon Jan 8 21:53:42 2001
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 21:53:42 -0800
Subject: History Channel television show on NSA (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <20010108225725.A2407@cluebot.com>
References:
<20010108225725.A2407@cluebot.com>
Message-ID:
(Choate's various lists, like Inferno and Sci-Tech, removed. We got
rid of Hettinga's massive list profusion, so adding Choate's seems
ill-advised.)
At 10:57 PM -0500 1/8/01, Declan McCullagh wrote:
>Watched it, ET giving me a 3 hr advantage over you golden staters.
Ah, but we wired golden staters have satellite, which gives us PBS
East. However, I was enjoying the warm temps in Santa Cruz, though
nippy after dark, so you are, it turns out, correct.
>A
>definite passover except for last 10 minutes, Echelon-dodging making
>the spooks limber enough to Macarena with Clipper Chip-endorsing Al
>with dispatch. "Trust us," DIRNSA proudly proclaims, with Church bells
>ringing in the near distance. Of note is latest permutation of
>horsemen riding in on backs of Defcon-going hackers as justification
>for existence of The Agency That Shall Not Be Named.
>
>-Declan, channeling JYA
--Tim, reading about JYA's subpoena just after reading Levy's account
of how we won the crypto war. Hmmmhhhh.
(and after having just caught the late afternoon matinee of
"Traffic," the excellent film about the nonwinning of the War on Some
Drugs)
BTW, no apparent subpoenas for moi, which is good. Ignoring both CJ
Parker/Toto and Jim Bell, except for a couple of early responses,
seems to have insulated me well.
--
Timothy C. May tcmay at got.net Corralitos, California
Political: Co-founder Cypherpunks/crypto anarchy/Cyphernomicon
Technical: physics/soft errors/Smalltalk/Squeak/agents/games/Go
Personal: b.1951/UCSB/Intel '74-'86/retired/investor/motorcycles/guns
From declan at well.com Mon Jan 8 19:57:25 2001
From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 22:57:25 -0500
Subject: History Channel television show on NSA (fwd)
In-Reply-To: ; from ravage@EINSTEIN.ssz.com on Mon, Jan 08, 2001 at 05:18:24PM -0600
References:
Message-ID: <20010108225725.A2407@cluebot.com>
Watched it, ET giving me a 3 hr advantage over you golden staters. A
definite passover except for last 10 minutes, Echelon-dodging making
the spooks limber enough to Macarena with Clipper Chip-endorsing Al
with dispatch. "Trust us," DIRNSA proudly proclaims, with Church bells
ringing in the near distance. Of note is latest permutation of
horsemen riding in on backs of Defcon-going hackers as justification
for existence of The Agency That Shall Not Be Named.
-Declan, channeling JYA
On Mon, Jan 08, 2001 at 05:18:24PM -0600, Jim Choate wrote:
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________
>
> Before a larger group can see the virtue of an idea, a
> smaller group must first understand it.
>
> "Stranger Suns"
> George Zebrowski
>
> The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate
> Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com
> www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087
> -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 16:38:19 -0500 (EST)
> From: "P.J. Ponder"
> To: cryptography at c2.net
> Subject: History Channel television show on NSA
>
> The 'History Channel' cable TV network will air a show about the NSA
> tomorrow night January 8, at 8 pm Eastern. Their website says this about
> it:
>
> America's Most Secret Agency
>
> The National Security Agency, America's most secret and controversial
> agency, is charged with safeguarding the nation's strategic intelligence
> information and decoding the secret communications of our enemies. For
> only the second time in its nearly 50 year history, the N.S.A. allowed
> cameras inside its Ft. Meade, Maryland, headquarters, and the director,
> Lt. General Michael V. Hayden, sits for a rare interview and addresses
> issues such as privacy. Tune in and find out if Big Brother is watching
> you!
>
>
>
From petro at bounty.org Mon Jan 8 23:09:50 2001
From: petro at bounty.org (petro)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 23:09:50 -0800
Subject: Janet Reno on IP, piracy and terrorism
In-Reply-To: <200101081235.f08CZMR13000@harmon.arrowhead.lib.mn.us>
References: <200101081235.f08CZMR13000@harmon.arrowhead.lib.mn.us>
Message-ID:
>> > Bet on it? We don't have to do that -- look who he picked.
>> Asscroft,
>> > the boob who got beat by a dead man. Check out his
>> ultra-fascist voting
>> > record. Gag. Barf.
>>
>> Yes, but I bet he will burn very few children to death in a
>> church during his first year.
>
>
> No, instead he'll probably burn pot smokers at the stake by the
>millions.
The main difference being that the Church Goers *think* that
what they are doing is legal, while the pot smokers (for the most
part) know that what they are doing is either illegal, or legally
questionable.
No, smoking pot *shouldn't* be illegal, but it is. If you get
caught buying, selling, or smoking, it's you're own damn fault.
I am not aware of any law against joining or attending a church.
--
A quote from Petro's Archives:
**********************************************
"As someone who has worked both in private industry and in academia,
whenever I hear about academics wanting to teach ethics to people in
business, I want to puke."--Thomas Sowell.
From dorr at asc.upenn.edu Mon Jan 8 20:13:21 2001
From: dorr at asc.upenn.edu (Daniel Orr)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 23:13:21 -0500
Subject: History Channel television show on NSA (fwd)
Message-ID:
I agree, most of it was like a bad history of cryptography in America. I
wish I had stuck watching Boston Public.
Last year (1999/early 2000) Congress tacked a requirement onto an
appropriations bill which required the NSA to report on Echelon and
monitoring of American citizens. This was shortly after the director plead
attorney client privilege with the NSA's Chief Counsel.
Does anyone know what happened with this report? Were there any sections not
classified?
-----Original Message-----
From: Declan McCullagh
To: Jim Choate
Cc: cypherpunks at einstein.ssz.com; The Club Inferno;
austin-cpunks at einstein.ssz.com; sci-tech at einstein.ssz.com
Sent: 1/8/01 10:57 PM
Subject: Re: History Channel television show on NSA (fwd)
Watched it, ET giving me a 3 hr advantage over you golden staters. A
definite passover except for last 10 minutes, Echelon-dodging making
the spooks limber enough to Macarena with Clipper Chip-endorsing Al
with dispatch. "Trust us," DIRNSA proudly proclaims, with Church bells
ringing in the near distance. Of note is latest permutation of
horsemen riding in on backs of Defcon-going hackers as justification
for existence of The Agency That Shall Not Be Named.
-Declan, channeling JYA
On Mon, Jan 08, 2001 at 05:18:24PM -0600, Jim Choate wrote:
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________
>
> Before a larger group can see the virtue of an idea, a
> smaller group must first understand it.
>
> "Stranger Suns"
> George Zebrowski
>
> The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate
> Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com
> www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087
> -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 16:38:19 -0500 (EST)
> From: "P.J. Ponder"
> To: cryptography at c2.net
> Subject: History Channel television show on NSA
>
> The 'History Channel' cable TV network will air a show about the NSA
> tomorrow night January 8, at 8 pm Eastern. Their website says this
about
> it:
>
> America's Most Secret Agency
>
> The National Security Agency, America's most secret and controversial
> agency, is charged with safeguarding the nation's strategic
intelligence
> information and decoding the secret communications of our enemies. For
> only the second time in its nearly 50 year history, the N.S.A. allowed
> cameras inside its Ft. Meade, Maryland, headquarters, and the
director,
> Lt. General Michael V. Hayden, sits for a rare interview and addresses
> issues such as privacy. Tune in and find out if Big Brother is
watching
> you!
>
>
>
From petro at bounty.org Mon Jan 8 23:18:19 2001
From: petro at bounty.org (petro)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 23:18:19 -0800
Subject: Anglo-American communications studies
In-Reply-To: <3A5A3897.6C5EC6F9@lsil.com>
References: <3A5A3897.6C5EC6F9@lsil.com>
Message-ID:
>>>>and there are very few opportunities for real misunderstanding.
>>
>>So Ken if you read that Blair was near Thatcher's house and knocked
>>her up, Yanks would think something very different from Brits.
>>
>That's where technology can help : catch it on video.
I think I'm going to be sick...
--
Five seconds later, I'm getting the upside of 15Kv across the
nipples. (These ambulance guys sure know how to party).
The Ideal we strive for: http://www.iinet.net.au/~bofh/bofh/bofh11.html
From bgreen at conwaycorp.net Mon Jan 8 20:59:49 2001
From: bgreen at conwaycorp.net (Bryan Green)
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 23:59:49 -0500
Subject: Anglo-American communications studies
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:
on 1/8/01 2:54 PM, Jim Dixon at jdd at vbc.net wrote:
>
> [Apologies for continuing this odd thread but ...]
>
> On Mon, 8 Jan 2001, Tim May wrote:
>
>>> Anyway - I heard Americans on the TV last week talking about "railway"
>>> instead of "railroad". And "station" instead of "depot" (though Grand
>>> Central Station is I suppose quite old, so you must have had that one
>>> for a while)
>>
>> The most interesting Britishism to suddenly invade our shores and
>> spread rapidly is "gone missing." I'm now hearing this in American
>> movies, t.v. shows, and, importantly, television news. "The hunt is
>> on for the fugitives in Texas who have gone missing." This is
>> definitely new to our shores; I'm surprised (and pleased) at how
>> rapidly it has spread.
>>
>> "At university" and "at hospital" have not become common (though "at
>
> The more common British term is "in hospital". I don't recall
> ever hearing anyone say "at hospital".
>
> There are innumerable small distinctions in usage . If you are
> in hospital, you are ill, not a member of the staff.
>
> Your being ill may the result of an injury. That is, the same
> term covers both sicknesses and injuries. If you are in hospital
> because of a broken back, people will say that you are ill.
>
> If you are sick, on the other hand, it means that you have vomited.
>
>> college" and "at school" are fully equivalent and are common).
>
> They aren't equivalent at all. In the UK [young] children go to
> "school" and "college" generally refers to something very roughly
> equivalent to either an American senior high school or junior
> college. My company has university students spending a year or
> so with us on placement; if you ask them when they are going back
> to school, they tend to be offended, thinking you are poking fun at
> them. Taking the mickey, that is.
>
> --
> Jim Dixon VBCnet GB Ltd http://www.vbc.net
> tel +44 117 929 1316 fax +44 117 927 2015
>
>
>
Actually, gone missing has been in common usage in my home area for the past
20 years at least. My home area being southwestern Arkansas. This may be
the reason that it has shown up on the news broadcasts for the Texas
fugitives. Maybe it has already been in use in this small, little part of
the country for awhile.
Bryan Green
From anmetet at mixmaster.shinn.net Mon Jan 8 21:22:26 2001
From: anmetet at mixmaster.shinn.net (An Metet)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 00:22:26 -0500
Subject: Book Review: The secrets of cryptography
Message-ID: <812c65895e71032c648540dd03e36718@mixmaster.shinn.net>
by Joel Enos
January 08, 2001
J
At last, a book about secret codes that isn't boring or too technical!
As any kid from any era knows, the pinnacle of privacy is the secret code (from decoder rings to James Bond to Harriet the Spy and beyond). So why is it that when most authors write about cryptography (or, as Steven Levy abbreviates it, "crypto") they leave out the fun factor and simply veer off into computer geek-speak about lines of data and whatnot? Who knows? And who cares now that Levy has written the definitive story of crypto so far, keeping all the excitement and drama surrounding the topic intact.
Levy's latest work (he's also the author of "Hackers: Heroes of the Computer Revolution," which, when it appeared, made the term a permanent part of our Silicon subculture) has a writing style that's a seamless blend of his other lives, chief technology writer for Newsweek (thus a brisk, to-the-point tone), freelance writer for Wired ("Crypto" is speculative and analytical as much as it is informative) and for Macworld (while the book isn't techie, it's obvious Levy is, and, when he has to, he can explain code, and what it takes to crack one, quickly and easily).
The result is a riveting story that begins with the meeting of Mary Fischer and Whitfield Diffie in the late '70s and moves on to the present-day controversy surrounding the delicate Internet balance of privacy vs. freely available information.
The story does explain the background you'll need to comprehend what cryptography is (divisions between public and private keys, where they came from, etc.) and why it's important (many of us may not realize we reap its benefits every day, on everything from ATMs to online shopping), but sticks to the human element of the tale rather than simply "the facts."
In the end, you get a history lesson and a new set of questions to ponder (such as, where is this all going to go?) filtered through the people at the core of the controversy. Levy interviewed basically all the privacy luminaries, from Fischer and Diffie to Phil Zimmerman (head of Pretty Good Privacy). From them, he's managed to create what reads more like a novel than a history book -- and certainly comes off nothing like a computer history book.
Empowering the people
For those who want to jump right to the juicy bits, the best section of Crypto is "Crypto Anarchy" focusing on Zimmerman's "hatred of Big Brother" and his drive to "write his own public key encryption program -- for the people" and the subsequent government backlash.
Levy includes just enough verbatim legislation from the infamous U.S. Senate Bill 266 from 1991 (as worded by then head of the Senate Judiciary Committee Sen. Joseph Biden) to strike fear in the hearts of all encryption nuts and privacy advocates.
And his portrayal of Zimmerman as the freeware rebel flying around uploading PGP to the Net via a laptop, acoustic coupler and various pay phones is priceless.
All in all, "Crypto" is a good introduction to a relatively young public policy issue (how private will the government allow us to be with our electronic communications?) that is only now starting to be addressed or even understood.
From bear at sonic.net Mon Jan 8 21:32:32 2001
From: bear at sonic.net (Ray Dillinger)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 00:32:32 -0500
Subject: cell phone anonymity
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:
On Mon, 8 Jan 2001, Tim May wrote:
>
>Ray, you seem knowledgeable in some areas. But your pontifications on
>California basements, cellphone GPS, etc., are very "Choatean" in
>nature. Something you might want to look at.
You can trust anything I say about Math or Programming (especially
AI and LISP programming -- ie, my job). A lot of my "rants" in
fields like architecture, state government, etc, come from situations
in Kansas, many of which do not apply to California, and I need to
think twice before speaking once. Much of the rest (including GPS
chips in cell phones "within the next couple of years," heard a couple
of years ago) is gleaned from mainstream media and evidently has its
share of distortions.
Bear
An aside -- Contractors are now building uninsulated homes in Kansas
(a climate where temperatures range from about 110 fahrenheit to
-3 fahrenheit over the course of an average year) on floodplains,
with slab foundations, not even buttressed down to the heave line
and with no provision for airflow to mediate temperature - and
people are buying them! This monumental stupidity was a feature
of the circus of fools around me for many years, and is still
where my mind goes by reflex action whenever I hear about electricity
supply difficulties, power costs and escalating home insurance prices --
however irrelevant it may be to the situation in California.
California, it seems, has its own set of completely different acts
in the circus of fools, and I'm still learning them....
From pzakas at toucancapital.com Mon Jan 8 21:45:25 2001
From: pzakas at toucancapital.com (Phillip Zakas)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 00:45:25 -0500
Subject: History Channel television show on NSA (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <20010108225725.A2407@cluebot.com>
Message-ID:
I also watched the program. Not very exciting. The Puzzle Palace by James
Bamford, though dated, is probably the best insight I've read.
I've had a few direct experiences with the NSA over the past years because
of my crypto/tech background. Strangest experiences: getting yelled at by
an NSA mathematician during several odd negotiations at Ft. Meade in '98; as
chief technologist for a large US online company's endeavors to export a
128-bit browser to its intl. users in '98 (worked with both FBI and NSA on
this -- came close to getting the license too); met with former heads of two
nsa groups who hinted interesting observations on Skipjack, intl crypto
products and relative strength of 128 bit crypto; finally, I was actually
trained in NSA's infosec methodology in 2000 (I even have a certificate from
them for passing the classes...the legal disclaimers on the thing are
priceless -- you can check out some of their classes at www.nsa.gov if you
want details). ...blah blah some other stuff too which is not nearly as
interesting. No, though I've been to ft. meade several times i've never
seen the "11 acres of super computers" and i've never seen operations rooms,
etc. though i have seen some pretty boring cinderblocked conf. rooms in the
middle of upper floors where computers aren't networked at all, the doors
are made of steel and the walls emit a strange low hum; one door had a label
which said: "not much of anything, really". there's lots of humer like that
all around the place...probably to help break the tension of not being able
to talk about what you do all day every day i imagine.
IMHO the NSA staff are overworked and still in search of a clear, cool and
patriotic uber-mission. fighting drugs and hackers just isn't as sexy as
manipulating russian satellite image transmissions. Plus funding cuts means
they've scaled back on activities which have normally been the role of the
nsa...must be weird to work there where for years you had all the funding
you needed, and now you're losing funding and staff. Recently, for example,
they stopped performing infosec assessments for large US companies (like
Disney in 1997, clearly because mickey mouse is a national critical icon)
because they don't have enough people to perform the work and while NIST is
now responsible for such things, only the NSA has staff trained to do these
assessments (which is one reason I was trained, and no, i don't work for
nist). Now NSA only performs infosec assessments for US critical
infrastructure (mostly military and r&d sites). In fact the whole PDD-63/us
critical infrastructure thing is very big and right now no one other than
NIST/NSA is assumed to have the knowledge to carry out that mission. Yet
there are seriously something like only 13 NSA staffers performing the
duties/leading red teams, etc.
I got the strong feeling that Red Team and IW efforts are hot topics of
interest at the NSA (and Army, Navy and AF too). Thanks in part to
successes in manipulating Milosevic-and-friends banking records during the
Yugoslavia conflict, these areas are receiving a lot of attention. Watch
for huge growth in activities here (in fact you can see some congressional
funding justifications for IW program using China's, Israel's and Russia's
own official IW ops activities).
BTW, has anyone heard of recent moves to push SS7 phone messaging traffic
over the internet in a bid to boost scalability and LNP resolution speeds?
Three effects: it'll work better than the current SS7 network alone;
improved eavesdropping on conversations which touch land lines (fyi only
phone-to-phone cell phone comms like nextel's two-way-radio feature don't
use land lines I believe); decreased need to try to decipher the message
while it's in the air (it's harder to intercept over the air transmissions).
sorry for the long posting, but thought i could share my small glimpse of
their vast activities.
phillip
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-cypherpunks at Algebra.COM
[mailto:owner-cypherpunks at Algebra.COM]On Behalf Of Declan McCullagh
Sent: Monday, January 08, 2001 10:57 PM
To: Jim Choate
Cc: cypherpunks at einstein.ssz.com; The Club Inferno;
austin-cpunks at einstein.ssz.com; sci-tech at einstein.ssz.com
Subject: Re: History Channel television show on NSA (fwd)
Watched it, ET giving me a 3 hr advantage over you golden staters. A
definite passover except for last 10 minutes, Echelon-dodging making
the spooks limber enough to Macarena with Clipper Chip-endorsing Al
with dispatch. "Trust us," DIRNSA proudly proclaims, with Church bells
ringing in the near distance. Of note is latest permutation of
horsemen riding in on backs of Defcon-going hackers as justification
for existence of The Agency That Shall Not Be Named.
-Declan, channeling JYA
On Mon, Jan 08, 2001 at 05:18:24PM -0600, Jim Choate wrote:
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________
>
> Before a larger group can see the virtue of an idea, a
> smaller group must first understand it.
>
> "Stranger Suns"
> George Zebrowski
>
> The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate
> Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com
> www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087
> -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 16:38:19 -0500 (EST)
> From: "P.J. Ponder"
> To: cryptography at c2.net
> Subject: History Channel television show on NSA
>
> The 'History Channel' cable TV network will air a show about the NSA
> tomorrow night January 8, at 8 pm Eastern. Their website says this about
> it:
>
> America's Most Secret Agency
>
> The National Security Agency, America's most secret and controversial
> agency, is charged with safeguarding the nation's strategic intelligence
> information and decoding the secret communications of our enemies. For
> only the second time in its nearly 50 year history, the N.S.A. allowed
> cameras inside its Ft. Meade, Maryland, headquarters, and the director,
> Lt. General Michael V. Hayden, sits for a rare interview and addresses
> issues such as privacy. Tune in and find out if Big Brother is watching
> you!
>
>
>
From declan at well.com Mon Jan 8 22:22:54 2001
From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 01:22:54 -0500
Subject: Anonymous Remailers cpunk
In-Reply-To: ; from ravage@einstein.ssz.com on Mon, Oct 16, 2000 at 11:03:29PM -0500
References: <35ef637b5c366a720f012b20c2beb949@remailer.ch>
Message-ID: <20010109012254.A4269@cluebot.com>
On Mon, Oct 16, 2000 at 11:03:29PM -0500, Jim Choate wrote:
>
> On 17 Oct 2000, Anonymous wrote:
>
> > Pipe the message into GPG and test the output on STDERR.
> >
> > There was some perl code posted to the list not too long ago which does this.
>
> So, now everyone has to use GPG. Why? How do you propose to answer the
> increased attacks on the protocol now that you've made it the monopoly?
>
> I thought the point of anonymous remailers and commen crypto was to
> enhance liberty rather than enforce (coerce) another standard.
.
This is nonsense. GPG would in this situation not have a monopoly any
more (and in fact less) than SMTP or FTP would be.
Many free market economists believe there is no such thing as a
monopoly sans government intervention. Even if they're wrong, it is
silly to describe protocols not owned by one entity as a
monopoly. (Who has the "monopoly power," for purposes of legal
analysis, for instance?)
The point of anonymous remailers and commonly-used crypto varies
depending on to whom you speak, but there are worse answers than
protecting liberty. And those who defend it know that coercion is done
by someone holding a gun to your head, not by someone suggestion
a protocol on a mailing list.
But of course this is Jim Choate.
-Declan
From declan at well.com Mon Jan 8 22:44:59 2001
From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 01:44:59 -0500
Subject: History Channel television show on NSA (fwd)
In-Reply-To: ; from dorr@asc.upenn.edu on Mon, Jan 08, 2001 at 11:13:21PM -0500
References:
Message-ID: <20010109014459.B4269@cluebot.com>
Ah, yes, I remember this. According to one article
(http://208.201.97.5/ref/hottopics/security/background/web-clinton-12-08-99.html) it was in FY2K appropriations, so report was long due.
---
According to language in a report on the bill, the CIA and NSA must
address the following in their report to congress:
The legal standards for interception of communications to or from
U.S. citizens.
The legal standards for intentional targeting of the communications to
or from U.S. citizens.
The legal standards for receipt from non-U.S. sources of information
pertaining to communications to or from U.S. citizens.
The legal standards for dissemination of information acquired through
the interception of the communications to or from U.S. citizens.
---
I recall it was sent to the relevant intel committees around Feb 00.
-Declan
On Mon, Jan 08, 2001 at 11:13:21PM -0500, Daniel Orr wrote:
>
> I agree, most of it was like a bad history of cryptography in America. I
> wish I had stuck watching Boston Public.
>
> Last year (1999/early 2000) Congress tacked a requirement onto an
> appropriations bill which required the NSA to report on Echelon and
> monitoring of American citizens. This was shortly after the director plead
> attorney client privilege with the NSA's Chief Counsel.
>
> Does anyone know what happened with this report? Were there any sections not
> classified?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Declan McCullagh
> To: Jim Choate
> Cc: cypherpunks at einstein.ssz.com; The Club Inferno;
> austin-cpunks at einstein.ssz.com; sci-tech at einstein.ssz.com
> Sent: 1/8/01 10:57 PM
> Subject: Re: History Channel television show on NSA (fwd)
>
>
> Watched it, ET giving me a 3 hr advantage over you golden staters. A
> definite passover except for last 10 minutes, Echelon-dodging making
> the spooks limber enough to Macarena with Clipper Chip-endorsing Al
> with dispatch. "Trust us," DIRNSA proudly proclaims, with Church bells
> ringing in the near distance. Of note is latest permutation of
> horsemen riding in on backs of Defcon-going hackers as justification
> for existence of The Agency That Shall Not Be Named.
>
> -Declan, channeling JYA
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 08, 2001 at 05:18:24PM -0600, Jim Choate wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> ____________________________________________________________________
> >
> > Before a larger group can see the virtue of an idea, a
> > smaller group must first understand it.
> >
> > "Stranger Suns"
> > George Zebrowski
> >
> > The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate
> > Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com
> > www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087
> > -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
> >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 16:38:19 -0500 (EST)
> > From: "P.J. Ponder"
> > To: cryptography at c2.net
> > Subject: History Channel television show on NSA
> >
> > The 'History Channel' cable TV network will air a show about the NSA
> > tomorrow night January 8, at 8 pm Eastern. Their website says this
> about
> > it:
> >
> > America's Most Secret Agency
> >
> > The National Security Agency, America's most secret and controversial
> > agency, is charged with safeguarding the nation's strategic
> intelligence
> > information and decoding the secret communications of our enemies. For
> > only the second time in its nearly 50 year history, the N.S.A. allowed
> > cameras inside its Ft. Meade, Maryland, headquarters, and the
> director,
> > Lt. General Michael V. Hayden, sits for a rare interview and addresses
> > issues such as privacy. Tune in and find out if Big Brother is
> watching
> > you!
> >
> >
> >
>
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From steve at tightrope.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 9 01:40:29 2001
From: steve at tightrope.demon.co.uk (Steve Mynott)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 04:40:29 -0500
Subject: Anglo-American communications studies
In-Reply-To: Ray Dillinger's message of "Mon, 8 Jan 2001 17:31:15 -0500"
References:
Message-ID:
Ray Dillinger writes:
> On Mon, 8 Jan 2001, David Honig wrote:
>
> >At 08:17 AM 1/8/01 -0500, Ken Brown wrote:
> >>and there are very few opportunities for real misunderstanding. We know
> >
> >The meaning of 'billion' differs by three orders of magnitude
> >across the pond. That's plenty of room for confusion :-)
No it doesn't 1,000 million is in more common use now.
> And in the US, "billiards" is a game played with cues and balls
> on a felt-covered slate table. In the UK, it's also a very large
> number. Thankfully, so large that that definition rarely comes
I have never heard "billiards" used as a number.
--
1024/D9C69DF9 steve mynott steve at tightrope.demon.co.uk
whenever people agree with me i always feel i must be wrong.
-- oscar wilde
From k.brown at ccs.bbk.ac.uk Tue Jan 9 03:47:56 2001
From: k.brown at ccs.bbk.ac.uk (Ken Brown)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 06:47:56 -0500
Subject: Anglo-American communications studies
References: <3A59BDDD.F3CE6BA5@ccs.bbk.ac.uk> <3.0.6.32.20010108131326.007d67a0@pop.sprynet.com>
Message-ID: <3A5AF9ED.53ADB91A@ccs.bbk.ac.uk>
David Honig wrote:
>
> >>and there are very few opportunities for real misunderstanding.
>
> So Ken if you read that Blair was near Thatcher's house and knocked
> her up, Yanks would think something very different from Brits.
You've been listening to those old Max Miller records again, haven't
you?
And they are very old:
"Have you heard about the girl of eighteen who swallowed a pin, but
didn't feel the prick until she was twenty-one?"
"I was walking along this narrow mountain pass - so narrow that nobody
else could pass you, when I saw a beautiful blonde, with not a
stitch on - yes, not a stitch on, lady. Cor blimey, I didn't know
whether to toss myself off or block her passage."
"Which would you like, the blue book or the white book? You like both
don't you. Listen, I was in Spain four years ago and all the girls wear
little knives in the top of their stocking. I found that out.........
So I said to myself, I'll find exactly what's the idea in wearing a
knife on the top of the stocking and she said, that's to defend my
honour, I said, what, a little tiny knife like that...... I said that,
if you were in Brighton, you would need a set of carvers!"
et.c et.c et.c
So this woman walks into a pub and asks for a double entendre, and the
barman says "Do you want a large one?"
From davidjel at goingplatinum.com Tue Jan 9 04:03:48 2001
From: davidjel at goingplatinum.com (davidjel at goingplatinum.com)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 07:03:48 -0500 (EST)
Subject: An Invitation From David Lamb
Message-ID: <6178853.979041828320.JavaMail.platweb@atl7mhfl0079>
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text/html
Size: 700 bytes
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URL:
From bear at sonic.net Tue Jan 9 08:04:18 2001
From: bear at sonic.net (Ray Dillinger)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 08:04:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: The uses of pseudo-links
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:
On Tue, 9 Jan 2001, Trei, Peter wrote:
>[Jim: It's ok that you have no problem with
>your ineffective methods of giving pointers
>to articles, but your wasting your own and
>other's time - there's simply no reason for
>people to follow your links, since they are
>generally useless]
Actually, not *entirely* useless. Usually right after jim
talks about an article and posts a link that doesn't point
at it, someone else will post a correct link. If Jim
just shut up, some of these stories probably would escape
our notice. In the course of correcting his errors, people
do provide useful information.
Bear
From jya at pipeline.com Tue Jan 9 06:14:19 2001
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 09:14:19 -0500
Subject: Bell Case Subpoena
In-Reply-To: <01010817350909.03765@reality.eng.savvis.net>
References: <200101082217.RAA29708@johnson.mail.mindspring.net>
<200101082217.RAA29708@johnson.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <200101091421.JAA11938@hall.mail.mindspring.net>
We've completed transcription of the subpoena and attachments:
http://cryptome.org/jdb-subpoena.htm
The Information for Grand Jury Witnesses says,
"The witness is required to answer all questions asked,
except to the extent that a truthful answer to a question
would tend to incriminate the witness. A knowingly false
answer to any question could be the basis for a prosecution
of the witness for perjury. Anything a Grand Jury witness
says which tends to incriminate him may be used against
him by the Grand Jury, or later used against him in Court."
That's good 5A advice to protect against coercion, intimidation,
squealing, fishing, entrapment, blindsiding, ham sandwiching,
and believing you're saving your ass by disbelieving what the
witness Information threatens:
"The mere fact that this information accompanies your subpoena
should not be taken as any indication or suggestion that you
are under investigation or are likely to be charged with a crime."
From bo.elkjaer at eb.dk Tue Jan 9 00:27:13 2001
From: bo.elkjaer at eb.dk (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Bo_Elkj=E6r?=)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 09:27:13 +0100
Subject: GSM encryption. Reduction of algorithm. Interesting doc from GSM
Org.
Message-ID: <81485FE4A1E9D111847400805F592CF20347E987@mail.pol.dk>
<>
Jørgen Bo Madsen
Fra: James Moran [james.moran at gsm.org]
Sendt: 3. december 1999 12:02
Til: Jørgen Erik Bo Madsen
Emne: A5 algorithm key length
Prioritet: Høj
Jorgen,
Below you will find the answers to the questions posed in your letter
dated 12th October.
1. Is the implementation of European GSM encryption algorithm A5/1
reduced in strength to 54 bits?
The key length of Kc used in the GSM encryption is 64 bits but
10 of the bits are set to 0. Therefore the effective key length is 54 bits.
2. Is the implementation of the A5/1 encryption algorithm used in
one or more GSM systems in Denmark reduced in strength to 54 bits?
I can confirm that A5 must be used by all GSM operators and that
all GSM operators in Denmark currently use the standard algorithm which has
the 54 bit effective key length.
3. Why is the A5/1 algorithm reduced in strength?
The key length is determined by control regulations that exist
in many countries regarding the use of encryption. As algorithms are treated
as dual use goods, similar to munitions, their movement and use is
regulated and certain countries place a limit on their strength. As GSM was
designed and developed to be used throughout Europe the design of the
algorithm had to take the restrictions of various countries into account.
4. Who ordered the reduction of the A5 algorithm?
The algorithm specifications were written by ETSI SAGE and this
group would have decided on the key length.
If you require anything further do not hesitate to contact me.
Regards,
James
================================================================
This e-mail is intended only for the addressee(s) named above. As this
e-mail may contain confidential or privileged information, if you are not a
named addressee, or the person responsible for delivering the message to the
named addressee, please telephone the Association immediately on the number
below. The contents should not be disclosed to any other person nor copies
taken.
James Moran
Fraud and Security Director
GSM Association Headquarters
Avoca Court, Temple Road, Blackrock, Co. Dublin, IRELAND.
Phone: +353 1 2091827;
Fax: +353 1 2695958
GSM: +353 86 8565124
Email: james.moran at gsm.org Web: http://www.gsmworld.com/
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From tcmay at got.net Tue Jan 9 09:42:07 2001
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 09:42:07 -0800
Subject: The uses of pseudo-links
In-Reply-To:
References:
Message-ID:
At 8:04 AM -0800 1/9/01, Ray Dillinger wrote:
>On Tue, 9 Jan 2001, Trei, Peter wrote:
>
>>[Jim: It's ok that you have no problem with
>>your ineffective methods of giving pointers
>>to articles, but your wasting your own and
>>other's time - there's simply no reason for
>>people to follow your links, since they are
>>generally useless]
>
>Actually, not *entirely* useless. Usually right after jim
>talks about an article and posts a link that doesn't point
>at it, someone else will post a correct link. If Jim
>just shut up, some of these stories probably would escape
>our notice. In the course of correcting his errors, people
>do provide useful information.
>
Your definition of "useful" is different from mine. I believe lists
like ours should primarily be about discussions and points of view,
not a third-hand CNET or Register or Slashdot. There are many Web
sources of breaking news (not that a lot of the "functional quantum
computer" sorts of stories are usually breaking news...).
Personally, I like it when someone finds a news item, provides a
detailed URL, even quotes (in ASCII, not MIME!) a paragraph or two,
and then comments on it and connects it to Cypherpunks issues.
Merely dumping out "general science" items, with general URLs, is
just plain abusing the list.
--Tim May
--
Timothy C. May tcmay at got.net Corralitos, California
Political: Co-founder Cypherpunks/crypto anarchy/Cyphernomicon
Technical: physics/soft errors/Smalltalk/Squeak/agents/games/Go
Personal: b.1951/UCSB/Intel '74-'86/retired/investor/motorcycles/guns
From ptrei at rsasecurity.com Tue Jan 9 07:00:48 2001
From: ptrei at rsasecurity.com (Trei, Peter)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 10:00:48 -0500
Subject: Functional quantum computer?
Message-ID:
He's an existance proof that people can be
intelligent in some areas, yet astoundingly
obtuse in others.
Peter
[Jim: It's ok that you have no problem with
your ineffective methods of giving pointers
to articles, but your wasting your own and
other's time - there's simply no reason for
people to follow your links, since they are
generally useless]
> ----------
> From: Reese[SMTP:reeza at flex.com]
> Reply To: Reese
> Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2001 1:55 AM
> To: cypherpunks at cyberpass.net
> Subject: Re: Functional quantum computer?
>
> Jimbo's a real piece of work, ain't he?
>
> At 04:18 PM 1/8/01 -0600, Jim Choate wrote:
> >
> >On Mon, 8 Jan 2001, Trei, Peter wrote:
> >
> >> Jim seems to have a real hard time with this concept.
> >
> >By the bitching you and others are making it's not I who has the
> problem.
> >I have none (zero, nadah, null, nil).
> >
> >> Last week, I privately mailed him a polite letter on
> >
> >And I told you to stop, you didn't. Don't give me consideration then
> don't
> >bitch when you don't get it.
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________________
> >
> > Before a larger group can see the virtue of an idea, a
> > smaller group must first understand it.
> >
> > "Stranger Suns"
> > George Zebrowski
> >
> > The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate
> > Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com
> > www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087
> > -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
>
From emc at artifact.psychedelic.net Tue Jan 9 11:07:46 2001
From: emc at artifact.psychedelic.net (Eric Cordian)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 11:07:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: IRC FUD: Chapter II
Message-ID: <200101091907.f09J7kD26559@artifact.psychedelic.net>
On the heels of the Efnext debacle, I just read this fascinating
article in Wired News which purports to explain that Usenet is already
dead, and IRC will be next.
http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,41077,00.html
Methinks some people are just a teensy bit too eager to announce the
demise of certain Anarchistic parts of the Net as a forgone conclusion.
Particularly those parts which are used for Horsemen-related activities,
and exist in a more supervised and LEA accessible form from providers
like AOL.
I'm not buying.
--
Eric Michael Cordian 0+
O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division
"Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"
From declan at well.com Tue Jan 9 08:40:50 2001
From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh)
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 11:40:50 -0500
Subject: Review of History Channel's NSA documentary
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010109114029.02473470@mail.well.com>
[The documentary aired again twice this morning on the History Channel, and
it's a fair bet it'll show again later this week. --Declan
http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,41063,00.html
History Looks at the NSA
by Declan McCullagh (declan at wired.com)
2:00 a.m. Jan. 9, 2001 PST
WASHINGTON -- As anyone who watched Enemy of the State knows, the
National Security Agency is a rapacious beast with an appetite for
data surpassed only by its disregard for Americans' privacy.
Or is the opposite true, and the ex-No Such Agency staffed by ardent
civil libertarians?
To the NSA, of course, its devilish reputation is merely an
unfortunate Hollywood fiction. Its director, Lt. Gen. Michael Hayden,
has taken every opportunity to say so, most recently on a History
Channel documentary that aired for the first time Monday evening.
"It's absolutely critical that (Americans) don't fear the power that
we have," Hayden said on the show.
He dismissed concerns about eavesdropping over-eagerness and all but
said the NSA, far from being one of the most feared agencies, has
become one of the most handicapped.
One reason, long cited by agency officials: Encryption. The show's
producers obligingly included stock footage of Saddam Hussein, saying
that the dictator-for-life has been spotted chatting on a 900-channel
encrypted cell phone.
That's no surprise. The NSA, as Steven Levy documents in his new
Crypto book (which the documentary overlooks), has spent the last 30
years trying to suppress data-scrambling technology through export
regulations, court battles, and even personal threats.
Instead of exploring that controversial and timely subject that's tied
to the ongoing debate over privacy online, "America's Most Secret
Agency" instead spends the bulk of an hour on a history of
cryptography starting in World War II. Most of the documentary could
have aired two decades ago, and no critics are interviewed.
One of the few surprises in the otherwise bland show is the NSA's new
raison d'etre -- infowar.
[...]
From declan at well.com Tue Jan 9 08:41:06 2001
From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh)
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 11:41:06 -0500
Subject: Review of Steven Levy's "Crypto"
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010109114101.02473470@mail.well.com>
http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,41071,00.html
Crypto: Three Decades in Review
by Declan McCullagh (declan at wired.com)
8:20 a.m. Jan. 9, 2001 PST
WASHINGTON --It took only a year or two for a pair of computer and
math geeks to discover modern encryption technology in the 1970s. But
it's taken three decades for the full story to be told.
Transforming what is an unavoidably nerdy tale into the stuff of
passion and politics is not a trivial business, but Steven Levy, the
author of Crypto, proves himself more than up to the task.
Crypto (Viking Penguin, $25.95), is Levy's compelling history of the
personalities behind the development of data encryption, privacy and
authentication: The mathematicians who thought up the idea, the
businessmen who tried to sell it to an unsure public and the
bureaucrats who tried to control it.
Levy, a Newsweek writer and author of well-received technology
histories such as Hackers and Insanely Great, begins his book in 1969
with a profile of Whit Diffie, the tortured, quirky co-discoverer of
public key cryptography. Other characters soon populate the stage: The
MIT mathematicians eager to sign documents digitally; Jim Bidzos, the
Greek-born dealmaker who led RSA Data Security from ruin to success;
and Phil Zimmermann, the peace-activist-turned-programmer who gave the
world Pretty Good Privacy.
Until their contributions, the United States and other countries
suffered from a virtual crypto-embargo, under which the technology to
perform secure communications was carefully regulated as a munition
and used primarily by soldiers and spies.
But what about privacy and security? "On one side of the battle were
relative nobodies: computer hackers, academics and wonky civil
libertarians. On the other were some of the most powerful people in
the world: spies, generals and even presidents. Guess who won," Levy
writes.
(Full disclosure: A few years ago, Levy asked this writer to help him
research portions of the book. For whatever reason -- perhaps he found
what he needed elsewhere -- discussions ceased.)
Throughout Crypto's 356 pages, Levy takes the perspective of the
outsiders -- and, in some cases, rebels -- who popularized the
technology. Although he provides ample space for the U.S. government's
views, he casts the struggle between crypto-buffs and their federal
adversaries in terms familiar to foes of government control.
[...]
From honig at sprynet.com Tue Jan 9 08:58:34 2001
From: honig at sprynet.com (David Honig)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 11:58:34 -0500
Subject: Anglo-American communications studies
In-Reply-To: <3A5AF9ED.53ADB91A@ccs.bbk.ac.uk>
References: <3A59BDDD.F3CE6BA5@ccs.bbk.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010109085520.007cdd30@pop.sprynet.com>
At 11:45 AM 1/9/01 +0000, Ken Brown wrote:
>David Honig wrote:
>>
>> >>and there are very few opportunities for real misunderstanding.
>>
>> So Ken if you read that Blair was near Thatcher's house and knocked
>> her up, Yanks would think something very different from Brits.
>
>You've been listening to those old Max Miller records again, haven't
>you?
No, a british (Birmingham) cell biologist used it in casual conversation
in the early 1990s. I was struck by the humor of it at the time.
From gil_hamilton at hotmail.com Tue Jan 9 12:11:01 2001
From: gil_hamilton at hotmail.com (Gil Hamilton)
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 12:11:01
Subject: Anglo-American communications studies
Message-ID:
Ray Dillinger writes:
>And in the US, "billiards" is a game played with cues and balls on a
>felt-covered slate table. In the UK, it's also a very large number.
>Thankfully, so large that that definition rarely comes into conversation.
>As I understand cross-pond conversions, it goes like this....
>
>USA UK Scientific
>Thousand Thousand 1E3
>Million Million 1E6
>Billion Milliard 1E9
>Trillion Billion 1E12
>Quadrillion Billiard 1E15
>Quintillion Trillion 1E18
>Sextillion Trilliard 1E21
>Septillion Quadrillion 1E24
>Octillion Quadrilliard 1E27
See this table from Merriam-Webster:
http://www.m-w.com/mw/table/number.htm
- GH
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
From partners at getyourcasinonow.com Tue Jan 9 10:23:15 2001
From: partners at getyourcasinonow.com (partners at getyourcasinonow.com)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 12:23:15 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Strategic Partnership Proposal
Message-ID: <20010109182315.9E50911560@ns.luckyscasino.com>
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From bill.stewart at pobox.com Tue Jan 9 12:33:11 2001
From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart)
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 12:33:11 -0800
Subject: Bell Case Subpoena
In-Reply-To: <01010817350909.03765@reality.eng.savvis.net>
References: <200101082217.RAA29708@johnson.mail.mindspring.net>
<200101082217.RAA29708@johnson.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010109123311.009d3c60@idiom.com>
>On Monday 08 January 2001 16:09, John Young wrote:
>> You are also commanded to bring with you the following
>> document(s) or object(s):
>>
>> Please provide any and all documents, papers, letters, computer
>> disks, photographs, notes, objects, information, or other items
>> in your possession or under your control, including electronically
>> stored or computer records, which:
>>
>> 1. Name, mention, describe, discuss, involve or relate to James
>> Dalton Bell, a/k/a Jim Bell, or
>>
>> 2. Were previously possessed, owned, created, sent by, transported,
>> or oftherwise affiliated with James Dalton Bell, a/k/a Jim Bell, or
>
>How would you know if it was sent by him unless it had a digital signature
>that you are willing to testify in court was know to belong to him and
>had not been comprimised?
I'd think there'd be serious problems with most of the evidence
in this case being hearsay, except stuff specifically
posted by Jim Bell.
Thanks!
Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639
From ektarohra at hotmail.com Mon Jan 8 23:22:58 2001
From: ektarohra at hotmail.com (ektarohra at hotmail.com)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 12:52:58 +0530
Subject: No subject
Message-ID:
Hi Id like to buy the book
How To Meet & Win With Women
Please send me the name of the author and publisher - and would like to buy either the cd rom or the book
thanks
ekta
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From bf at mindspring.com Tue Jan 9 11:26:42 2001
From: bf at mindspring.com (Blank Frank)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 14:26:42 -0500
Subject: MS Product Activation for Windows (licensing)
Message-ID: <3A5B6559.F1C3C523@mindspring.com>
With all the hoopla over the release of the final version of the Linux
2.4.0 kernel last week, Microsoft Corp.'s delivery of an interim beta
version of its Windows 2000 successor, code-named Whistler, got lost in
the shuffle.
But according to Whistler testers, Microsoft issued build 2410 of its
next version of Windows on Thursday. New in this build are many
user-interface tweaks, as well as the incorporation of new anti-piracy
code.
...
No more casual copying?
The most potentially controversial addition to Whistler 2410, however,
is anti-piracy code that Microsoft is calling "Microsoft Product
Activation for Windows," (WPA) according to testers. The technology is
similar to the Office Activation Wizard that's part of Office 2000.
WPA will tie a Windows product key to one specific PC in order to reduce
casual copying. In order to "activate" it, a customer will send data
about the installation, such as product ID number and hardware
identifier, to a Microsoft-run license clearinghouse. The clearinghouse
won't allow the use of the customer's product key on a PC different from
the one originally activated.
Microsoft plans to deliver WPA in all 32-bit versions of Whistler
except those sold to volume-licensing customers and the so-called
"Royalty OEM initial install images" provided to PC makers, said sources
close to the company. Microsoft is expected to add similar anti-piracy
technology to Office 10 and Visual Studio .Net, sources said.
http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2672131,00.html
From tcmay at got.net Tue Jan 9 14:44:57 2001
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 14:44:57 -0800
Subject: Bell Case Subpoena
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010109123311.009d3c60@idiom.com>
References: <200101082217.RAA29708@johnson.mail.mindspring.net>
<200101082217.RAA29708@johnson.mail.mindspring.net>
<3.0.5.32.20010109123311.009d3c60@idiom.com>
Message-ID:
At 12:33 PM -0800 1/9/01, Bill Stewart wrote:
> >On Monday 08 January 2001 16:09, John Young wrote:
> >> You are also commanded to bring with you the following
>>> document(s) or object(s):
>>>
>>> Please provide any and all documents, papers, letters, computer
>>> disks, photographs, notes, objects, information, or other items
>>> in your possession or under your control, including electronically
>>> stored or computer records, which:
>>>
> >> 1. Name, mention, describe, discuss, involve or relate to James
> >> Dalton Bell, a/k/a Jim Bell, or
>>>
>>> 2. Were previously possessed, owned, created, sent by, transported,
>>> or oftherwise affiliated with James Dalton Bell, a/k/a Jim Bell, or
>>
>>How would you know if it was sent by him unless it had a digital signature
>>that you are willing to testify in court was know to belong to him and
>>had not been comprimised?
>
>I'd think there'd be serious problems with most of the evidence
>in this case being hearsay, except stuff specifically
>posted by Jim Bell.
ven a "From: Jim Bell" doesn't prove anything. Besides knowing this
from first principles (about spoofing, signatures, etc.), we have
seen this demonstrated on this very list. Recall that various posters
were claiming to be "Toto" during the unfolding of that situation.
Recall that Detweiler (presumably) used to issue posts with my name
attached, with Nick Szabo's name attached, with Eric Hughes' name
attached, etc.
These points were never tested in the court cases of Bell or Parker.
John Young could quite easily show up in Seattle with _none_ of the
items the subpoena calls for. If questioned, he could say he had no
means of knowing if the articles, posts, etc. were in fact from Bell
or were generated by Infowar cointelpro operatives in law enforcement
or even by Detweiler or May or whomever.
Also, even if he chooses to comply and grep through his mail archives
for "any and all documents...mention...discuss....Jim Bell," this
would presumably turn up many hundreds of such documents. And the
provenance will be unknown (an ordinary mail spool, or Eudora folder,
or Outlook Express whatever, etc., being editable and alterable).
John Young (or anyone else) could have edited his mail spool to put
words into "Bell"'s alleged mail.
I expect this upcoming trial will not be the case which hinges on
these kinds of issues, but some court will someday have to contend
with this utter malleability of received mail files. Unlike paper
letters which can be forensically analyzed, e-mail is nearly
meaningless.
--Tim May
--
Timothy C. May tcmay at got.net Corralitos, California
Political: Co-founder Cypherpunks/crypto anarchy/Cyphernomicon
Technical: physics/soft errors/Smalltalk/Squeak/agents/games/Go
Personal: b.1951/UCSB/Intel '74-'86/retired/investor/motorcycles/guns
From rah at shipwright.com Tue Jan 9 11:58:50 2001
From: rah at shipwright.com (R. A. Hettinga)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 14:58:50 -0500
Subject: DCSB: Ted Byfield; ICANN, Intellectual Property, and Digital
Commerce
Message-ID:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
[Note that the Harvard Club is now "business casual". No more jackets
and ties... --RAH]
The Digital Commerce Society of Boston
Presents
Ted Byfield,
Moderator, Nettime
(among other things...)
ICANN, Intellectual Property,
and Digital Commerce
Tuesday, February 6th, 2000
12 - 2 PM
The Downtown Harvard Club of Boston
One Federal Street, Boston, MA
Through an erratic process intended to "lessen the burdens of
government," the Clinton administration transferred governance of the
Internet's essential functions to the Internet Corporation for
Assigned Names and Numbers. In trying to cement its status, ICANN has
sought to transform the net's cooperative structures into a
hierarchical contractual regime geared toward expanding and enforcing
intellectual property claims. The result of ICANN's deviation from
its technical coordination mandate into a captured policy-making
proxy for an absent-minded US government is a centralized namespace
that privileges the demands of late-adopters over innovative
expansions of DNS. This talk will provide a survey of ICANN's
activities to date and how they may advance alternative models and
extensions of DNS as a decentralized, cooperative system that is more
secure and less subject to political whim.
After working for over a decade as decade as an editor focusing on
intellectual and cultural history, Ted Byfield joined the faculty of
Parsons School of Design in New York City, where he teaches about the
social and political aspects of design. In addition to writing and
lecturing about areas where the technical and cultural collide, he is
a member of the rump Boston Working Group, co-moderates the Nettime
mailing list, and serves as an boardmember and advisor for various
New York-area cultural organizations.
This meeting of the Digital Commerce Society of Boston will be held
on Tuesday, February 6th, 2000, from 12pm - 2pm at the Downtown
Branch of the Harvard Club of Boston, on One Federal Street. The
price for lunch is $35.00. This price includes lunch, room rental,
A/V hardware if necessary, and the speakers' lunch. The Harvard Club
has relaxed its dress code, which is now "business casual", meaning
no sneakers or jeans. Fair warning: since we purchase these luncheons
in advance, we will be unable to refund the price of your meal if the
Club finds you in violation of what's left of its dress code.
We need to receive a company check, or money order, (or, if we
*really* know you, a personal check) payable to "The Harvard Club of
Boston", by Saturday, January 3rd, or you won't be on the list for
lunch. Checks payable to anyone else but The Harvard Club of Boston
will have to be sent back.
Checks should be sent to Robert Hettinga, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston,
Massachusetts, 02131. Again, they *must* be made payable to "The
Harvard Club of Boston", in the amount of $35.00. Please include your
e-mail address so that we can send you a confirmation
If anyone has questions, or has a problem with these arrangements
(we've had to work with glacial A/P departments more than once, for
instance), please let us know via e-mail, and we'll see if we can
work something out.
Upcoming speakers for DCSB are:
March 6 TBA
April 3 Scott Moskowitz Watermarking and Bluespike
As you can see, :-), we are actively searching for future speakers.
If you are in Boston on the first Tuesday of the month, are a
principal in digital commerce, and would like to make a presentation
to the Society, please send e-mail to the DCSB Program Committee,
care of Robert Hettinga, .
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--
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
To unsubscribe from this list, send a letter to: Majordomo at reservoir.com
In the body of the message, write: unsubscribe dcsb-announce
Or, to subscribe, write: subscribe dcsb-announce
If you have questions, write to me at Owner-DCSB at reservoir.com
--- end forwarded text
--
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
From pxiao at Liberate.com Tue Jan 9 15:42:45 2001
From: pxiao at Liberate.com (Xiao, Peter)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 15:42:45 -0800
Subject: crypto implementation for small footprint devices
Message-ID: <953A023D1ACA2F45A31A6F9B7B2A992502E8A1F1@usscmail1.liberate.com>
Hi,
I am currently looking for crypto implementation that can fit into small
footprint (in the order of 50K or less) devices. Ideally, an SSL type of
protocol meets my requirements but it is almost impossible to implement it
within 50K even with selected cipher suites. So, I am looking for
alternatives (either symmetric key or public key based). I was thinking
about WTLS but looks like its implementation can not be significantly
smaller than that of TLS since it is also based on Public Key cryptography
(I am wondering how it fits into a cellphone). Can any one tell me what is
the approximate size of the client implementation of WTLS. Also, would
anyone send some pointers to me regarding what I am looking for.
Thanks in advance!!
Peter
From izaac at setec.org Tue Jan 9 12:42:46 2001
From: izaac at setec.org (Izaac)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 15:42:46 -0500
Subject: The uses of pseudo-links
In-Reply-To: ; from Ray Dillinger on Tue, Jan 09, 2001 at 08:04:18AM -0800
References:
Message-ID: <20010109154246.A3015@setec.org>
On Tue, Jan 09, 2001 at 08:04:18AM -0800, Ray Dillinger wrote:
> Actually, not *entirely* useless. Usually right after jim
> talks about an article and posts a link that doesn't point
> at it, someone else will post a correct link. If Jim
> just shut up, some of these stories probably would escape
> our notice. In the course of correcting his errors, people
> do provide useful information.
Yeah in a: "Gee, if I didn't sideswipe that truck and crash into this
utility pole, I never would have noticed that quarter on the ground!"
sort of way.
--
___ ___ . . ___
\ / |\ |\ \
_\_ /__ |-\ |-\ \__
From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Tue Jan 9 14:37:58 2001
From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 16:37:58 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [alg] gpg with gnome clients (fwd)
Message-ID:
____________________________________________________________________
Before a larger group can see the virtue of an idea, a
smaller group must first understand it.
"Stranger Suns"
George Zebrowski
The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate
Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com
www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087
-====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
--------------------------------------------------------------------
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 16:27:26 -0600
From: geoffrey
Reply-To: alg at austinlug.org
To: alg at austinlug.org
Subject: [alg] gpg with gnome clients
Does anyone know of a good gnome email client ( ala balsa ) which has
strong support for gpg ( as does mutt)? I have some people from the
spoonfed MS world who have discovered the need/use for email crypto, and
they are having a horrible time getting pgp to work completely correctly
with anything: eudora/OE, etc. So, I felt that this might be the perfect
opportunity to wean them from the Redmond teat by showing them how that
job, plus all others they usually perform can be handily done in Linux.
Since they are from the Windows world I thought that I would soften the
transition by using gnome. I can't stand KDE; so, don't suggest kmail.
geoffrey
--
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Santa Claus,
the Tooth Fairy,
Windows 2000 ...
Some things you just outgrow.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Key fingerprint ===> B83C C6E1 68F8 CEC9 8636 86B5 1F0E 9D33 E749 1BA6
Public key available upon request.
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From gbroiles at netbox.com Tue Jan 9 16:55:41 2001
From: gbroiles at netbox.com (Greg Broiles)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 16:55:41 -0800
Subject: Bell Case Subpoena
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010109123311.009d3c60@idiom.com>; from bill.stewart@pobox.com on Tue, Jan 09, 2001 at 12:33:11PM -0800
References: <200101082217.RAA29708@johnson.mail.mindspring.net> <200101082217.RAA29708@johnson.mail.mindspring.net> <01010817350909.03765@reality.eng.savvis.net> <3.0.5.32.20010109123311.009d3c60@idiom.com>
Message-ID: <20010109165541.C6844@ideath.parrhesia.com>
On Tue, Jan 09, 2001 at 12:33:11PM -0800, Bill Stewart wrote:
>
> I'd think there'd be serious problems with most of the evidence
> in this case being hearsay, except stuff specifically
> posted by Jim Bell.
Remember that the subpoena delivered to JYA is for a grand jury
appearance - not trial testimony (yet). Grand juries are supposed to
protect the accused (in that they're supposed to be an early review
of prosecution evidence) but have been twisted into investigatory
tools where the production of secret testimony in an unstructured
environment (traditional rules like the rule against hearsay evidence
don't apply to grand jury proceedings) turn out to be very valuable
to the persec, er, prosecution.
If witness testimony suggests that other evidence of crimes may be
available - say, maybe Witness X describes an email received from
Person A, or produces a copy of that email - then investigators can
go forth and seek corroborative evidence to support (or replace)
Witness X's testimony at trial, perhaps with search warrants if they
believe the holders of that evidence are not inclined to cooperate
with subpoenas.
And, as Bill alludes above, the rule against hearsay evidence does
not apply to statements purportedly made by the opposing party
(e.g., the defendant, in a criminal case), so messages allegedly from
Jim Bell are likely to be admitted into evidence - Jim and/or his
attorney will have an opportunity to argue that they should not be
considered reliable evidence, or that if reliable they do not
constitute criminal acts or elements of crime(s) charged. The mere
possibility that evidence might be fabricated or altered will not
keep it out of court, but only provide the basis for an argument
that it should not be trusted. The jury or judge is free to accept
or ignore that argument as their common sense or politics dictate.
The "you can't trust email headers because they might be forged"
argument didn't go far in CJ's trial, and they're not likely to
fare much better elsewhere. The criminal trial system is perfectly
comfortable with evidence whose theoretical (or actual) perfection
and purity are less than ideal.
--
Greg Broiles gbroiles at netbox.com
PO Box 897
Oakland CA 94604
From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Tue Jan 9 15:11:32 2001
From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 17:11:32 -0600 (CST)
Subject: DCSB: Ted Byfield; ICANN, Intellectual Property, and Digital Commerce (fwd)
Message-ID:
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From mean-green at hushmail.com Tue Jan 9 17:18:38 2001
From: mean-green at hushmail.com (mean-green at hushmail.com)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 17:18:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: As Dot-Coms Go Bust in the U.S., Bermuda Hosts a Little Boomlet
Message-ID: <200101100119.RAA09342@user5.hushmail.com>
As Dot-Coms Go Bust in the U.S.,
Bermuda Hosts a Little Boomlet
By MICHAEL ALLEN
Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
HAMILTON, Bermuda -- Operating out of a hurricane-proof command center in
a former U.S. military base, Paven Bratch is a tax examiner's nightmare.
Although his Internet company, music and video merchant Playcentric.com
(www.playcentric.com1), has just 10 employees, didn't go live until September
and has yet to turn a profit, it has the structure of a major multinational.
Its computer servers are located here, its operating unit is in Barbados,
and it has a distribution deal with a big record-store chain in Toronto.
The 36-year-old Mr. Bratch figures this setup will save him so much on corporate
income taxes and other expenses that he'll be able to undercut Amazon.com
Inc.'s prices by more than 45% and still make a bundle.
"One thing that always amazes me is, why would anyone who's planning on
generating a profit locate themselves in a full-tax jurisdiction?" he says.
'First Generation'
Plenty of dot-coms are asking themselves the same question these days. Undaunted
by their industry's growing ranks of flameouts and hoping to emerge as one
of the profitable few, dozens of them are popping up in tax havens around
the world.
In Bermuda, they range from tiny publisher ISI Publications Ltd., which
sells hard-to-find business books under the domain name Booksonbiz.com (www.booksonbiz.com2),
to E*Trade Group Inc., the big online stockbroker, which is locating its
international trading operations here. Further south, on the Caribbean island
of Antigua, an American trader has set up Indextrade.com (www.indextrade.com3)
to allow small investors to bet on swings in market indexes, while in Cyprus,
a former British jazz singer is doing a brisk business by listing vessels
such as a Soviet-era submarine on Ships-for-sale.com (www.ships-for-sale.com4).
"These merchants are the first generation who can really domicile anywhere,
" says Andrea Wilson, chief executive of Bermuda-based First Atlantic Commerce
Ltd. (www.firstatlanticcommerce.com5), which provides credit-card payment
systems for e-businesses. "They can be a virtual corporation if they choose."
The trend started with Internet gambling companies, which fled to the Caribbean
to avoid the long arm of U.S. law. But now, thanks to an explosion of new
telecommunications links to places such as Bermuda and Britain's Channel
Islands -- and an ambitious push by promoters in such countries as Panama
to set up facilities capable of hosting hundreds or thousands of Web sites
each -- more-legitimate Internet companies are starting to make the leap
offshore.
A Wealth of Ambiguity
There are serious questions about whether some of the structures would pass
muster with the Internal Revenue Service and its foreign counterparts. But
many accountants figure there's enough ambiguity in the industrial world's
offshore tax codes that e-commerce companies could, at least theoretically,
rack up tax-free profits for years before the authorities sort things out.
The issues are often murkier than for a standard offshore tax shelter, because
they involve technological innovations that the U.S. Treasury couldn't have
anticipated when it began laying the ground rules for offshore taxation
in the 1960s. For instance, nobody's entirely sure how to tax the earnings
of a programmer who sells his software by allowing buyers to download it
from a Web site hosted on a computer server in a zero-tax jurisdiction.
Some tax attorneys take the position that the sale takes place where the
server is located, and that the business owes no corporate or sales tax
in the buyer's home country. "It would be no different than you or I getting
on a plane, flying to the Bahamas, and buying a T-shirt in the hotel," says
Lazaro Mur, a Miami tax attorney.
New telecommunications options have brought Bermuda and much of the Caribbean
even closer than a plane ride away. Cable & Wireless PLC's phone monopoly
among former British colonies in the region is breaking up, and C&W's new
competitors are starting to lace the seabed with modern fiber-optic lines,
breaking down old technological barriers to working offshore.
At the same time, so-called server farms -- warehouses built to accommodate
row upon row of computer servers -- are sprouting up to accommodate high-
tech newcomers. At Fort Clayton, a former U.S. military base in Panama,
local entrepreneurs plan to open a 50,000-square-foot "high-tech hotel"
later this month they say will be capable of hosting as many as 1.2 million
Web sites.
HavenCo, a self-proclaimed "data haven," announced plans last year to host
Web sites from an antiaircraft platform abandoned by the British after World
War II. The North Sea platform has a colorful history: In 1966, a retired
British army major seized control of it and has operated it for years as
the sovereign "Principality of Sealand."
Ryan Lackey, HavenCo's chief technical officer, says the company, which
spent the summer upgrading electrical power and air conditioning on Sealand,
has more than 30 servers up and running, connected to the mainland by satellite
and wireless service, and hopes to expand to as many as 5,000.
He says the company has fielded "several thousand" sales inquiries. "The
big thing people really want is e-mail servers, because in the past people
have been getting their e-mail servers subpoenaed," he says. He adds that
HavenCo would only comply with subpoenas issued by the Court of Sealand.
"But there's no Court of Sealand, so it's very unlikely."
Tax savings are the big selling point for many of the installations. "Offshore
+ Ecommerce=Tax Free Heaven," screams a banner ad for Bahamas.net, which
offers server facilities in the Bahamas for as low as $2,200 a month.
Bermuda, which has a rich history of helping foreigners shave taxes, also
is doing its best to encourage the migration offshore. Its two biggest banks,
Bank of Bermuda Ltd. and Bank of N.T. Butterfield & Son Ltd., have launched
major e-commerce initiatives, establishing systems to allow online merchants
to bill customers in several major currencies. A common refrain among business
leaders on this tiny fishhook-shaped island is that Bill Gates would be
a much-richer man today if he had originally established Microsoft here.
The pitch helped reel in Robert Edwards, an editorial cartoonist who lives
in Canterbury, England. Not long ago he went looking for help in setting
up a Web site to sell works by him and about 30 other artists from around
the world. Tipped off to Bermuda by a visiting delegation of businesspeople,
he registered his company online through Appleby, Spurling & Kempe, a local
law firm here, and was quickly directed to Web designers, a hosting site
and a credit-card intermediary, First Atlantic.
Late last year, at a total cost of less than $200,000, his Drawnandquartered.com
(www.drawnandquartered.com6) went live, offering 4,000 artworks, which can
be downloaded online with a credit card, for $200 and up. His company doesn't
pay any income or sales taxes, and he only has to pay personal-income tax
on the salary he draws. "I'm a perfect example of how it can be done," he
says.
Playcentric's Mr. Bratch, a former Procter & Gamble Co. manager, says he
relied on advice from an international tax attorney in structuring the online
retailer, which will market its compact disks, videos and DVDs partly through
packaged-goods makers who want to reward loyal customers. Mr. Bratch, a
Canadian citizen, put his operating unit in Barbados, which, unlike Bermuda,
has a tax treaty with Canada, in order to take advantage of the Caribbean
nation's corporate income-tax rate of just 2%.
He says he located his computer operations in Bermuda because of its extensive
banking and telecommunications infrastructure. Its attractions include a
state-of-the-art server facility built in an old U.S. naval base by 360networks
Inc.'s TeleBermuda International unit, which laid an undersea fiber-optic
cable to the U.S. in 1997.
Tax considerations also helped lure Todd Middagh, chief executive of Originals
Online Ltd., to Bermuda. His brainchild: a site that will allow importers,
exporters and shipping companies to swap legally binding trade documents
online, instead of wasting days with couriers. "It's a digital product,
global in nature, 24-hours-a-day world-wide," says Mr. Middagh, who has
already attracted the interest of several major grain companies, including
Archer Daniels Midland Co.
"We're going to be in almost every jurisdiction over time," he says. Meanwhile,
Mr. Middagh, a native of Canada, will be presiding over the company from
his house here, which overlooks the Atlantic Ocean.
Scott Rubman, a Long Island, N.Y., real-estate attorney whose family has
long been in the fur trade, is putting together Furs.com (www.furs.com7),
a Bermuda-based site that plans to match mink farmers in, say, Norway,
with fur-coat manufacturers in North America and China. As an American,
Mr. Rubman may face a bigger hurdle in shielding any offshore profits from
taxation. Unlike many other countries, the U.S. taxes its citizens on their
income world-wide.
"If you move offshore strictly to evade taxes, that's something the U.S.
will always look at," says Mr. Rubman, who is getting plenty of advice from
U.S. tax experts. "When you have a legitimate business purpose to transact
business offshore, I'd think the U.S. would be supportive of that."
And if the U.S. isn't supportive? Cryptographer Vince Cate thinks he has
that covered. In 1998, the onetime Carnegie-Mellon University Ph.D candidate
walked into the U.S. Embassy in Barbados and renounced his American citizenship,
declaring that he was henceforth a citizen of Mozambique, thanks to a document
he purchased for $5,000 over the Internet.
Then, he went back to the Caribbean island of Anguilla, where he had developed
a reputation as a computer-encryption visionary. Among his many ventures,
he has taken over the operations of an online marketer of driver's-license
information that had run afoul of a new privacy law in Texas. Mr. Cate plans
to build the business without paying a cent of taxes.
"Because I'm not a U.S. citizen, I'm not in the United States, and Anguilla
has no taxes, I don't believe I have any problem," he says.
Write to Michael Allen at mike.allen at wsj.com8
From bear at sonic.net Tue Jan 9 14:23:26 2001
From: bear at sonic.net (Ray Dillinger)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 17:23:26 -0500
Subject: MS Product Activation for Windows (licensing)
In-Reply-To: <3A5B6559.F1C3C523@mindspring.com>
Message-ID:
On Tue, 9 Jan 2001, Blank Frank wrote:
> But according to Whistler testers, Microsoft issued build 2410 of its
>next version of Windows on Thursday. New in this build are many
>user-interface tweaks, as well as the incorporation of new anti-piracy
>code.
>...
>No more casual copying?
>The most potentially controversial addition to Whistler 2410, however,
>is anti-piracy code that Microsoft is calling "Microsoft Product
>Activation for Windows,"
Until now it has been easy for people to be hypocritical about
software piracy - to claim they're not doing it and don't support
it when in fact a fair number of their IT procedures would not be
possible if it were not done, at least in some small and usually
transient ways. Did anybody else temporarily create a "pirate"
installation of Windows NT 3.51 when they discovered that the
installer for NT 4.0 beta refused to delete the primary partition
and they needed to repartition their hard drives? It lasted twenty
minutes, but since for that twenty minutes it was on more than just
the original machine, it was a violation of EULA.
But if Microsoft and its ilk do in fact successfully create systems
that prevent "piracy", it won't be possible to be a hypocrite about
it any more. And with commercial software flatly refusing some
kinds of use, perhaps a fair number of people who now *think* they
are not doing any piracy will have to face some harsh facts.
Perhaps they will eventually realize that the way to avoid piracy
without sacrificing usability is to use open-source free software.
We can hope so anyway.
In that scenario, this anti-piracy stuff could be one of the nails
in Microsoft's coffin.
Bear
From ericm at lne.com Tue Jan 9 17:38:01 2001
From: ericm at lne.com (Eric Murray)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 17:38:01 -0800
Subject: Bell Case Subpoena
In-Reply-To: <20010109165541.C6844@ideath.parrhesia.com>; from gbroiles@netbox.com on Tue, Jan 09, 2001 at 04:55:41PM -0800
References: <200101082217.RAA29708@johnson.mail.mindspring.net> <200101082217.RAA29708@johnson.mail.mindspring.net> <01010817350909.03765@reality.eng.savvis.net> <3.0.5.32.20010109123311.009d3c60@idiom.com> <20010109165541.C6844@ideath.parrhesia.com>
Message-ID: <20010109173801.E31672@slack.lne.com>
On Tue, Jan 09, 2001 at 04:55:41PM -0800, Greg Broiles wrote:
> ... messages allegedly from
> Jim Bell are likely to be admitted into evidence - Jim and/or his
> attorney will have an opportunity to argue that they should not be
> considered reliable evidence, or that if reliable they do not
> constitute criminal acts or elements of crime(s) charged. The mere
> possibility that evidence might be fabricated or altered will not
> keep it out of court, but only provide the basis for an argument
> that it should not be trusted. The jury or judge is free to accept
> or ignore that argument as their common sense or politics dictate.
I'm not a lawyer, but my guess is that, unless there is a very compelling
argument from expert witness which "proves" to the judge or jury that
the emails in a particular case are forged, emails would be accepted in
pretty much any (US) court. I beleive that's how written evidence is
treated now, even though handwriting and signatures can be forged. If a
handwriting expert is brought in and "proves" that there's a forgery, the
evidence is thrown out or the judge or jury disregard it as appropriate.
In this regard, security experts will be the handwriting experts of
the future.
(Greg, have there been any cases where email evidence has been shown
in a court to be forged? Has this even been attempted, other than
Bell's case?)
--
Eric Murray Consulting Security Architect SecureDesign LLC
http://www.securedesignllc.com PGP keyid:E03F65E5
From melliott at ncsa.uiuc.edu Tue Jan 9 14:58:40 2001
From: melliott at ncsa.uiuc.edu (Matt Elliott)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 17:58:40 -0500
Subject: MS Product Activation for Windows (licensing)
In-Reply-To:
References:
Message-ID:
At 5:23 PM -0500 1/9/01, Ray Dillinger wrote:
>But if Microsoft and its ilk do in fact successfully create systems
>that prevent "piracy", it won't be possible to be a hypocrite about
>it any more. And with commercial software flatly refusing some
>kinds of use, perhaps a fair number of people who now *think* they
>are not doing any piracy will have to face some harsh facts.
Or you can realize that you were exercising "fair use" and the software
companies are now going to use technical means to prevent you from
exercising your right on copyrighted works.
It will only me a matter of time before some hacker provides the necessary
tools to exercise our "fair use" right again.
--
Matt Elliott High Performance Data Management Team
217-265-0257
From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Tue Jan 9 16:15:01 2001
From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 18:15:01 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Update on NIST crypto standards (fwd)
Message-ID:
____________________________________________________________________
Before a larger group can see the virtue of an idea, a
smaller group must first understand it.
"Stranger Suns"
George Zebrowski
The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate
Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com
www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087
-====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
--------------------------------------------------------------------
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 09:18:15 -0500
From: Steve Bellovin
To: cryptography at c2.net
Subject: Update on NIST crypto standards (fwd)
Forwarded with permission. There is also going to be an announcement
on modes of operation; http://csrc.nist.gov/encryption/tkmodes.html
should have the information within the next month or thereabouts.
------- Forwarded Message
From jrichard at cubicle.net Tue Jan 9 18:20:36 2001
From: jrichard at cubicle.net (Josh Richards)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 18:20:36 -0800
Subject: crypto implementation for small footprint devices
In-Reply-To: <953A023D1ACA2F45A31A6F9B7B2A992502E8A1F1@usscmail1.liberate.com>; from pxiao@Liberate.com on Tue, Jan 09, 2001 at 03:42:45PM -0800
References: <953A023D1ACA2F45A31A6F9B7B2A992502E8A1F1@usscmail1.liberate.com>
Message-ID: <20010109182036.B12329@datahaven.freedom.gen.ca.us>
* Xiao, Peter [20010109 16:01]:
>
> I am currently looking for crypto implementation that can fit into small
> footprint (in the order of 50K or less) devices. Ideally, an SSL type of
> protocol meets my requirements but it is almost impossible to implement it
> within 50K even with selected cipher suites. So, I am looking for
> alternatives (either symmetric key or public key based). I was thinking
> about WTLS but looks like its implementation can not be significantly
> smaller than that of TLS since it is also based on Public Key cryptography
> (I am wondering how it fits into a cellphone). Can any one tell me what is
> the approximate size of the client implementation of WTLS. Also, would
> anyone send some pointers to me regarding what I am looking for.
How small of footprint? 50K (presuming you mean in currency) isn't really
a measurement of footprint size to me. :) Would something along the lines
of a Java iButton match your requirements?
It truly depends on what you need the device to be capable of...and I don't
just mean the crypto implementation but is this a device to be self-powered?
How do you need to interface with it? Etc.
-jr
----
Josh Richards [JTR38/JR539-ARIN]
Geek Research LLC -
IP Network Engineering and Consulting
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From jrichard at cubicle.net Tue Jan 9 18:34:50 2001
From: jrichard at cubicle.net (Josh Richards)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 18:34:50 -0800
Subject: SS7 over the Net (was Re: History Channel television show on NSA)
In-Reply-To: ; from pzakas@toucancapital.com on Tue, Jan 09, 2001 at 12:45:25AM -0500
References: <20010108225725.A2407@cluebot.com>
Message-ID: <20010109183450.C12329@datahaven.freedom.gen.ca.us>
* Phillip Zakas [20010108 21:51]:
[..]
> BTW, has anyone heard of recent moves to push SS7 phone messaging traffic
> over the internet in a bid to boost scalability and LNP resolution speeds?
There are already carriers doing SS7 over IP via gateways. Over the public
Internet is not a stretch from a technical standpoint but, in practice,
I'd find it hard to believe too many LECs or IXCs going this route. Private
IP networks, yes already in production even. The public IP network, nobody
serious is doing it. Wait, well, if you just mean VoIP there are VoIP
companies that are attempting things like this by partnering with regional
and local ISPs to place voice gateways. If you're talking governmental
moves, there are easier ways. The SS7 network isn't exactly encrypted..
> Three effects: it'll work better than the current SS7 network alone;
> improved eavesdropping on conversations which touch land lines (fyi only
> phone-to-phone cell phone comms like nextel's two-way-radio feature don't
> use land lines I believe); decreased need to try to decipher the message
> while it's in the air (it's harder to intercept over the air transmissions).
How does this improve eavesdropping? SS7 is only signaling. There is no
voice payload on the SS7 network. SS7 simply passes signaling information
around. Perhaps the knowledge of calling and called party since those
digits are passed via SS7 but the converstation is entirely distinct.
-jr
----
Josh Richards [JTR38/JR539-ARIN]
Geek Research LLC -
IP Network Engineering and Consulting
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From pxiao at Liberate.com Tue Jan 9 19:12:43 2001
From: pxiao at Liberate.com (Xiao, Peter)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 19:12:43 -0800
Subject: crypto implementation for small footprint devices
Message-ID: <953A023D1ACA2F45A31A6F9B7B2A992502E8A1F7@usscmail1.liberate.com>
-----Original Message-----
From: Josh Richards [mailto:jrichard at cubicle.net]
Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2001 6:21 PM
To: coderpunks at toad.com; cypherpunks at toad.com
Subject: Re: crypto implementation for small footprint devices
* Xiao, Peter [20010109 16:01]:
>
> I am currently looking for crypto implementation that can fit into small
> footprint (in the order of 50K or less) devices. Ideally, an SSL type of
> protocol meets my requirements but it is almost impossible to implement it
> within 50K even with selected cipher suites. So, I am looking for
> alternatives (either symmetric key or public key based). I was thinking
> about WTLS but looks like its implementation can not be significantly
> smaller than that of TLS since it is also based on Public Key cryptography
> (I am wondering how it fits into a cellphone). Can any one tell me what is
> the approximate size of the client implementation of WTLS. Also, would
> anyone send some pointers to me regarding what I am looking for.
How small of footprint? 50K (presuming you mean in currency) isn't really
a measurement of footprint size to me. :) Would something along the lines
of a Java iButton match your requirements?
It truly depends on what you need the device to be capable of...and I don't
just mean the crypto implementation but is this a device to be self-powered?
How do you need to interface with it? Etc.
The device is a DCT2000 set-top box with very limited footprint. Since the
box needs to run a lot of other applications, 50K is the space that we would
like to spend on the security purpose. The platform supports C interface.
-jr
----
Josh Richards [JTR38/JR539-ARIN]
Geek Research LLC -
IP Network Engineering and Consulting
From pzakas at toucancapital.com Tue Jan 9 18:07:24 2001
From: pzakas at toucancapital.com (Phillip Zakas)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 21:07:24 -0500
Subject: crypto implementation for small footprint devices
In-Reply-To: <953A023D1ACA2F45A31A6F9B7B2A992502E8A1F1@usscmail1.liberate.com>
Message-ID:
what kind of platform? are you counting on an internal processor, or are you
just storing a key to be acted on via a second device? need more info.
pz
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-cypherpunks at Algebra.COM
[mailto:owner-cypherpunks at Algebra.COM]On Behalf Of Xiao, Peter
Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2001 6:43 PM
To: 'coderpunks at toad.com'; cypherpunks at toad.com
Subject: crypto implementation for small footprint devices
Hi,
I am currently looking for crypto implementation that can fit into small
footprint (in the order of 50K or less) devices. Ideally, an SSL type of
protocol meets my requirements but it is almost impossible to implement it
within 50K even with selected cipher suites. So, I am looking for
alternatives (either symmetric key or public key based). I was thinking
about WTLS but looks like its implementation can not be significantly
smaller than that of TLS since it is also based on Public Key cryptography
(I am wondering how it fits into a cellphone). Can any one tell me what is
the approximate size of the client implementation of WTLS. Also, would
anyone send some pointers to me regarding what I am looking for.
Thanks in advance!!
Peter
From jrichard at cubicle.net Tue Jan 9 18:17:04 2001
From: jrichard at cubicle.net (Josh Richards)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 21:17:04 -0500
Subject: circus of fools (Re: cell phone anonymity)
In-Reply-To: ; from bear@sonic.net on Tue, Jan 09, 2001 at 12:32:32AM -0500
References:
Message-ID: <20010109181543.A12329@datahaven.freedom.gen.ca.us>
* Ray Dillinger [20010108 21:40]:
[..]
> ... This monumental stupidity was a feature
> of the circus of fools around me for many years, and is still
> where my mind goes by reflex action whenever I hear about electricity
> supply difficulties, power costs and escalating home insurance prices --
> however irrelevant it may be to the situation in California.
Don't worry -- electricity supply difficulties are a problem here in
sunny-but-raining-today California too. In fact, it's a *big* PITA at the
moment here. Super big.
> California, it seems, has its own set of completely different acts
> in the circus of fools, and I'm still learning them....
They are not completely different. Sure, there are some unique ones but
there is plenty of overlap. :)
-jr
----
Josh Richards [JTR38/JR539-ARIN]
Geek Research LLC -
IP Network Engineering and Consulting
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From justinel at ms14.hinet.net Tue Jan 9 05:47:06 2001
From: justinel at ms14.hinet.net (Sencera)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 21:47:06 +0800
Subject: offer sensor elements for .....
Message-ID: <200101091344.FAA13131@toad.com>
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Thanks
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Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 21:49:34 -0500
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Message-ID: <200101100253.UAA00998@serak.svc.tds.net>
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From pzakas at toucancapital.com Tue Jan 9 19:25:27 2001
From: pzakas at toucancapital.com (Phillip Zakas)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 22:25:27 -0500
Subject: SS7 over the Net (was Re: History Channel television show on NSA)
In-Reply-To: <20010109183450.C12329@datahaven.freedom.gen.ca.us>
Message-ID:
Using SS7 one can redefine routes, gather number translation info via
Signalling Control Points (SCPs), etc. Rather than repeat boring details,
check out:
http://support.dialogic.com/ss7/SS7tutorial/tutorial.html
The link is a brief tutorial on SS7; it'll make possibilities more obvious.
What's the danger of SS7 over IP? Lack of security features at gateways and
at the protocol level.
pz
>>>
How does this improve eavesdropping? SS7 is only signaling. There is no
voice payload on the SS7 network. SS7 simply passes signaling information
around. Perhaps the knowledge of calling and called party since those
digits are passed via SS7 but the converstation is entirely distinct.
-jr
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-cypherpunks at Algebra.COM
[mailto:owner-cypherpunks at Algebra.COM]On Behalf Of Josh Richards
Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2001 9:35 PM
To: cypherpunks at einstein.ssz.com
Subject: SS7 over the Net (was Re: History Channel television show on
NSA)
* Phillip Zakas [20010108 21:51]:
[..]
> BTW, has anyone heard of recent moves to push SS7 phone messaging traffic
> over the internet in a bid to boost scalability and LNP resolution speeds?
There are already carriers doing SS7 over IP via gateways. Over the public
Internet is not a stretch from a technical standpoint but, in practice,
I'd find it hard to believe too many LECs or IXCs going this route. Private
IP networks, yes already in production even. The public IP network, nobody
serious is doing it. Wait, well, if you just mean VoIP there are VoIP
companies that are attempting things like this by partnering with regional
and local ISPs to place voice gateways. If you're talking governmental
moves, there are easier ways. The SS7 network isn't exactly encrypted..
> Three effects: it'll work better than the current SS7 network alone;
> improved eavesdropping on conversations which touch land lines (fyi only
> phone-to-phone cell phone comms like nextel's two-way-radio feature don't
> use land lines I believe); decreased need to try to decipher the message
> while it's in the air (it's harder to intercept over the air
transmissions).
How does this improve eavesdropping? SS7 is only signaling. There is no
voice payload on the SS7 network. SS7 simply passes signaling information
around. Perhaps the knowledge of calling and called party since those
digits are passed via SS7 but the converstation is entirely distinct.
-jr
----
Josh Richards [JTR38/JR539-ARIN]
Geek Research LLC -
IP Network Engineering and Consulting
From gbroiles at netbox.com Tue Jan 9 22:31:46 2001
From: gbroiles at netbox.com (Greg Broiles)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 22:31:46 -0800
Subject: Bell Case Subpoena
In-Reply-To: <20010109173801.E31672@slack.lne.com>; from ericm@lne.com on Tue, Jan 09, 2001 at 05:38:01PM -0800
References: <200101082217.RAA29708@johnson.mail.mindspring.net> <200101082217.RAA29708@johnson.mail.mindspring.net> <01010817350909.03765@reality.eng.savvis.net> <3.0.5.32.20010109123311.009d3c60@idiom.com> <20010109165541.C6844@ideath.parrhesia.com> <20010109173801.E31672@slack.lne.com>
Message-ID: <20010109223145.E6844@ideath.parrhesia.com>
On Tue, Jan 09, 2001 at 05:38:01PM -0800, Eric Murray wrote:
>
> I'm not a lawyer, but my guess is that, unless there is a very compelling
> argument from expert witness which "proves" to the judge or jury that
> the emails in a particular case are forged, emails would be accepted in
> pretty much any (US) court. I beleive that's how written evidence is
> treated now, even though handwriting and signatures can be forged. If a
> handwriting expert is brought in and "proves" that there's a forgery, the
> evidence is thrown out or the judge or jury disregard it as appropriate.
I think this is right on. It's important to remember that evidence
(especially scientific or technical evidence) is subject to a two-step
vetting process - there's initial review by the judge, who must be
convinced that the evidence is potentially reliable and relevant; and
then the judge or jury must decide that they want to believe the
evidence after it's been admitted. There's plenty of evidence which is
both admissible (and admitted) yet ignored by juries.
> (Greg, have there been any cases where email evidence has been shown
> in a court to be forged? Has this even been attempted, other than
> Bell's case?)
I don't have an appellate case or a cite at hand immediately - I do know
that there was a case here in Silicon Valley where an ex-employee and
ex-girlfriend of Larry Ellison (CEO of Oracle) falsified an email which
purported to prove that she was the victim of sexual harassment at
Oracle - she lost her lawsuit against Oracle and was subsequently
convicted of perjury. (See 4 J. Tech Law & Policy 1 at para 31;
or a Seattle
Times article at
).
--
Greg Broiles gbroiles at netbox.com
PO Box 897
Oakland CA 94604
From pzakas at toucancapital.com Tue Jan 9 19:53:30 2001
From: pzakas at toucancapital.com (Phillip Zakas)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 22:53:30 -0500
Subject: crypto implementation for small footprint devices
In-Reply-To: <953A023D1ACA2F45A31A6F9B7B2A992502E8A1F7@usscmail1.liberate.com>
Message-ID:
I know RSA B-Safe stuff is made to fit onto cell phones and pagers. They
also are the public key vendor for DOCSIS cable boxes. Maybe they can help
you. www.rsa.com
pz
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-cypherpunks at Algebra.COM
[mailto:owner-cypherpunks at Algebra.COM]On Behalf Of Xiao, Peter
Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2001 10:13 PM
To: 'Josh Richards'; coderpunks at toad.com; cypherpunks at toad.com
Subject: RE: crypto implementation for small footprint devices
-----Original Message-----
From: Josh Richards [mailto:jrichard at cubicle.net]
Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2001 6:21 PM
To: coderpunks at toad.com; cypherpunks at toad.com
Subject: Re: crypto implementation for small footprint devices
* Xiao, Peter [20010109 16:01]:
>
> I am currently looking for crypto implementation that can fit into small
> footprint (in the order of 50K or less) devices. Ideally, an SSL type of
> protocol meets my requirements but it is almost impossible to implement it
> within 50K even with selected cipher suites. So, I am looking for
> alternatives (either symmetric key or public key based). I was thinking
> about WTLS but looks like its implementation can not be significantly
> smaller than that of TLS since it is also based on Public Key cryptography
> (I am wondering how it fits into a cellphone). Can any one tell me what is
> the approximate size of the client implementation of WTLS. Also, would
> anyone send some pointers to me regarding what I am looking for.
How small of footprint? 50K (presuming you mean in currency) isn't really
a measurement of footprint size to me. :) Would something along the lines
of a Java iButton match your requirements?
It truly depends on what you need the device to be capable of...and I don't
just mean the crypto implementation but is this a device to be self-powered?
How do you need to interface with it? Etc.
The device is a DCT2000 set-top box with very limited footprint. Since the
box needs to run a lot of other applications, 50K is the space that we would
like to spend on the security purpose. The platform supports C interface.
-jr
----
Josh Richards [JTR38/JR539-ARIN]
Geek Research LLC -
IP Network Engineering and Consulting
From petro at bounty.org Tue Jan 9 23:15:55 2001
From: petro at bounty.org (petro)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 23:15:55 -0800
Subject: Review of History Channel's NSA documentary
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010109114029.02473470@mail.well.com>
References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010109114029.02473470@mail.well.com>
Message-ID:
Declan:
> "It's absolutely critical that (Americans) don't fear the power that
> we have," Hayden said on the show.
Of course it's critical. If "we" don't fear it, we won't do
anything to reign it in.
If we do fear it, then they have to step carefully. From
Hayden's perspective, it is critical that we don't fear it.
I believe that it is critical that we do.
--
A quote from Petro's Archives:
**********************************************
"As someone who has worked both in private industry and in academia,
whenever I hear about academics wanting to teach ethics to people in
business, I want to puke."--Thomas Sowell.
From petro at bounty.org Tue Jan 9 23:20:05 2001
From: petro at bounty.org (petro)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 23:20:05 -0800
Subject: [alg] gpg with gnome clients (fwd)
In-Reply-To:
References:
Message-ID:
>Attachment converted: 9main:CDR- [alg] gpg with gnome clien
>(MiME/CSOm) (00039B4A)
The camel's back has just broken.
--
A quote from Petro's Archives:
**********************************************
"As someone who has worked both in private industry and in academia,
whenever I hear about academics wanting to teach ethics to people in
business, I want to puke."--Thomas Sowell.
From declan at well.com Tue Jan 9 22:29:54 2001
From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 01:29:54 -0500
Subject: Book Review: The secrets of cryptography
In-Reply-To: <812c65895e71032c648540dd03e36718@mixmaster.shinn.net>; from anmetet@mixmaster.shinn.net on Tue, Jan 09, 2001 at 12:22:26AM -0500
References: <812c65895e71032c648540dd03e36718@mixmaster.shinn.net>
Message-ID: <20010110015723.B19147@cluebot.com>
On Tue, Jan 09, 2001 at 12:22:26AM -0500, An Metet wrote:
> by Joel Enos
> January 08, 2001
> Ê
> At last, a book about secret codes that isn't boring or too technical!
And a book review that isn't accurate...
> In the end, you get a history lesson and a new set of questions to
ponder (such as, where is this all going to go?) filtered through the
people at the core of the controversy. Levy interviewed basically all
the privacy luminaries, from Fischer and Diffie to Phil Zimmerman
(head of Pretty Good Privacy). From them, he's managed to create what
With all due respect to Whit's very gracious and wonderful wife, I'm
not sure I'd call her a privacy luminary. Nor would I say Phil is head
of PGP.
> And his portrayal of Zimmerman as the freeware rebel flying around
uploading PGP to the Net via a laptop, acoustic coupler and various
pay phones is priceless.
This is not what Levy wrote.
-Declan
From bill.stewart at pobox.com Tue Jan 9 22:43:28 2001
From: bill.stewart at pobox.com (Bill Stewart)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 01:43:28 -0500
Subject: MS Product Activation for Windows (licensing)
In-Reply-To:
References: <3A5B6559.F1C3C523@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010109214716.00b17af0@idiom.com>
>>No more casual copying?
>>The most potentially controversial addition to Whistler 2410, however,
>>is anti-piracy code that Microsoft is calling "Microsoft Product
>>Activation for Windows,"
Copy protection is annoying when you have only one machine.
It's much more annoying in the commercially interesting case,
which is when you have many machines and are
copying things legitimately.
I've got a lab with half a dozen year-old El Cheapo PCs
and half a dozen Genuine Antique AT&T Pentium 90s.
Then there's the stack of old-beater laptops,
which are very nice machines to put in a rack of routers
when you just want a Ping/FTP/Web target.
The El Cheapo PCs each came with a licensed Win98;
I've got the disks in a stack, and keeping track of which
CD goes with which PC would be a serious annoyance.
It's actually worse, because the PCs are pieces of junk
that need to be have major chunks of Windows reloaded
every once in a while, though at least Win98 has less of the
"you have moved your mouse, please put in the Windows CD and reboot"
that Win95 had. It's annoying enough to keep track of
which Win98 serial numbers go with which CDROMs -
writing the number on the CDROM helps, but you can't
read it when it's in the drive :-)
The P90s were covered by a site license; I never had
individual media for them (and most of them don't have CD players,
which makes the "Please put the Win95 CD in the drive" more annoying.)
The copy of Win95 I've got on CDROM was from somewhere else.
Many of them are happily running Linux now.
N of them hang out on a DSL connection for doing firewall testing,
and they're named "Kenny" because they're targets for kiddies,
and it's nice not to mess with copy protection when I
reload the OS.
Some of the laptops still have their CDROMs; some don't,
and the ones that do often have funky drivers.
That's why they're still running Windows....
at least they don't crash very often, though you still
have to reboot them if you change static IP addresses.
And I paid cash money to upgrade the home machine to
Win98 Second Edition specifically to get
Internet Connection Service, which didn't work as promised
and trashed the DLLs used by several other commercial products
in ways that uninstalling didn't fix.
Will I feel guilty if I install WinME on two or three boxes?
(Skeptical, yes, but guilty? No.)
Thanks!
Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart at pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639
From declan at well.com Tue Jan 9 22:47:34 2001
From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 01:47:34 -0500
Subject: Bell Case Subpoena
In-Reply-To: ; from tcmay@got.net on Tue, Jan 09, 2001 at 02:44:57PM -0800
References: <200101082217.RAA29708@johnson.mail.mindspring.net> <200101082217.RAA29708@johnson.mail.mindspring.net> <3.0.5.32.20010109123311.009d3c60@idiom.com>
Message-ID: <20010110014734.A19147@cluebot.com>
On Tue, Jan 09, 2001 at 02:44:57PM -0800, Tim May wrote:
> I expect this upcoming trial will not be the case which hinges on
> these kinds of issues, but some court will someday have to contend
> with this utter malleability of received mail files. Unlike paper
> letters which can be forensically analyzed, e-mail is nearly
> meaningless.
Yes and no. Courts have figured out long ago how to deal with
malleable computer files, of which email is a special case. And notes
allegedly taken during a telephone call or meeting (which were
important during the MS antitrust trial) are equally malleable.
What the prosecution here is interested in is chain of custody, did
you receive this message, can you verify that Exhibit A is what you
received from someone at somewhere.com, etc. with perjury as a
deterrent. Then they can use phone records to show a defendant was
online then via a dialup connection...
It strikes me that this is a sort of link padding: If you're online
all the time, those phone records will be virtually useless.
-Declan
From declan at well.com Tue Jan 9 23:00:23 2001
From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 02:00:23 -0500
Subject: crypto implementation for small footprint devices
In-Reply-To: ; from pzakas@toucancapital.com on Tue, Jan 09, 2001 at 10:53:30PM -0500
References: <953A023D1ACA2F45A31A6F9B7B2A992502E8A1F7@usscmail1.liberate.com>
Message-ID: <20010110020023.C19147@cluebot.com>
It also might be worth checking out the elliptic curve apps that run
on Palm OS. --Declan
On Tue, Jan 09, 2001 at 10:53:30PM -0500, Phillip Zakas wrote:
>
> I know RSA B-Safe stuff is made to fit onto cell phones and pagers. They
> also are the public key vendor for DOCSIS cable boxes. Maybe they can help
> you. www.rsa.com
>
> pz
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-cypherpunks at Algebra.COM
> [mailto:owner-cypherpunks at Algebra.COM]On Behalf Of Xiao, Peter
> Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2001 10:13 PM
> To: 'Josh Richards'; coderpunks at toad.com; cypherpunks at toad.com
> Subject: RE: crypto implementation for small footprint devices
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Josh Richards [mailto:jrichard at cubicle.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2001 6:21 PM
> To: coderpunks at toad.com; cypherpunks at toad.com
> Subject: Re: crypto implementation for small footprint devices
>
>
> * Xiao, Peter [20010109 16:01]:
> >
> > I am currently looking for crypto implementation that can fit into small
> > footprint (in the order of 50K or less) devices. Ideally, an SSL type of
> > protocol meets my requirements but it is almost impossible to implement it
> > within 50K even with selected cipher suites. So, I am looking for
> > alternatives (either symmetric key or public key based). I was thinking
> > about WTLS but looks like its implementation can not be significantly
> > smaller than that of TLS since it is also based on Public Key cryptography
> > (I am wondering how it fits into a cellphone). Can any one tell me what is
> > the approximate size of the client implementation of WTLS. Also, would
> > anyone send some pointers to me regarding what I am looking for.
>
> How small of footprint? 50K (presuming you mean in currency) isn't really
> a measurement of footprint size to me. :) Would something along the lines
> of a Java iButton match your requirements?
> It truly depends on what you need the device to be capable of...and I don't
> just mean the crypto implementation but is this a device to be self-powered?
> How do you need to interface with it? Etc.
>
> The device is a DCT2000 set-top box with very limited footprint. Since the
> box needs to run a lot of other applications, 50K is the space that we would
> like to spend on the security purpose. The platform supports C interface.
>
> -jr
>
> ----
> Josh Richards [JTR38/JR539-ARIN]
>
> Geek Research LLC -
> IP Network Engineering and Consulting
>
>
From alan at clueserver.org Tue Jan 9 23:19:04 2001
From: alan at clueserver.org (Alan Olsen)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 02:19:04 -0500
Subject: MS Product Activation for Windows (licensing)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010109214716.00b17af0@idiom.com>
Message-ID:
On Wed, 10 Jan 2001, Bill Stewart wrote:
> The El Cheapo PCs each came with a licensed Win98;
> I've got the disks in a stack, and keeping track of which
> CD goes with which PC would be a serious annoyance.
> It's actually worse, because the PCs are pieces of junk
> that need to be have major chunks of Windows reloaded
> every once in a while, though at least Win98 has less of the
> "you have moved your mouse, please put in the Windows CD and reboot"
> that Win95 had. It's annoying enough to keep track of
> which Win98 serial numbers go with which CDROMs -
> writing the number on the CDROM helps, but you can't
> read it when it's in the drive :-)
Whenever I install a copy of Windows (rare these days), I always copy the
install files to the hard drive. The reason for this is that half the
time when Windows decides it needs something else, it cannot find the
CD-ROM drive.
This new policy guarantees that I will never buy a Microsoft OS again.
I actually upgrade the motherboards on home machines. I cannot afford to
repurchace, replace and reinstall every piece of software on those
machines just to upgrade the hardware.
Fuck them! Not for a game machine. (Which is about all that Windows gets
used for around here. That and Eudora.)
This is going to make life HELL for every sysadmin who has to deal with
this crap. I expect that you will see alot of admins printing the serial
numbers and taping them to the machines.
Microsoft is just trying to squeeze every last dollar from their
customers. Many of them are going to get tired of it and tell them where
to go.
alan at ctrl-alt-del.com | Note to AOL users: for a quick shortcut to reply
Alan Olsen | to my mail, just hit the ctrl, alt and del keys.
"In the future, everything will have its 15 minutes of blame."
From robinc at iu.net Wed Jan 10 01:59:59 2001
From: robinc at iu.net (Robin Cushman)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 04:59:59 -0500
Subject: sterno
Message-ID: <000801c07aec$189a2680$3829fea9@4d3m00b>
Are you the one selling products such as the sterno?
If so I would like to bid on the cases of sterno
please email me
Robin
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From robinc at iu.net Wed Jan 10 02:05:01 2001
From: robinc at iu.net (Robin Cushman)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 05:05:01 -0500
Subject: Fw: sterno
Message-ID: <001101c07aec$cc5580c0$3829fea9@4d3m00b>
Sorry about this email. I am seriously looking for sterno and did not realize this was a joke - du!
----- Original Message -----
From: Robin Cushman
To: cypherpunks at cyberpass.net
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 4:59 AM
Subject: sterno
Are you the one selling products such as the sterno?
If so I would like to bid on the cases of sterno
please email me
Robin
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From k.brown at ccs.bbk.ac.uk Wed Jan 10 03:55:45 2001
From: k.brown at ccs.bbk.ac.uk (Ken Brown)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 06:55:45 -0500
Subject: "Crime plan targets phone thefts"
Message-ID: <3A5C4DA0.48735F47@ccs.bbk.ac.uk>
"Crime plan targets phone thefts":
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid_1109000/1109234.stm
Apparently, Jack Straw (famously authoritarian British Home Secretary)
wants the phone companies to do something about street robbery of mobile
phones - now a third of all robbery in London and very embarrassing for
the government because it totally masks the genuine underlying ongoing
reduction in crime.
Straw: "We have a shared interest with mobile telephone manufacturers
and the operators in making telephones more secure, It's
difficult because many of the phones that are sold these days are the
pay-as-you-go phones, but there is more that can be done and this is all
about joining together in a partnership with industries, the public and
the police to help get these crimes down."
So mugging is joined to the now 6 or 7 horsepersons of the infocalypse
as yet another reason to ban anonymous phones? I wonder who is in
Straw's driving seat this time?
Something Must be Done is always a bad start to legislation. Do we get
the Dangerous Telephones Act 2001?
Ken (and not his employers who are law-abiding people who would do
nothing to annoy a Home Secretary)
From ssyreeni at cc.helsinki.fi Wed Jan 10 04:05:51 2001
From: ssyreeni at cc.helsinki.fi (Sampo A Syreeni)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 07:05:51 -0500
Subject: cell phone anonymity
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:
On Mon, 8 Jan 2001, Phillip H. Zakas wrote:
>I don't believe cell phones can be queried while they're off. The phone has
>to xmit a pulse
Quite right. In addition to this, the data used to triangulate a phone
usually originates in the phone itself - GSM phones periodically transmit
field strength measurements to the base station of all the cells they hear.
This is the basis of normal triangulation, as most GSM networks do not have
a triangulation capability built in.
Sampo Syreeni , aka decoy, student/math/Helsinki university
From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Wed Jan 10 05:19:41 2001
From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 07:19:41 -0600 (CST)
Subject: As Dot-Coms Go Bust in the U.S., Bermuda Hosts a , Little Boomlet
In-Reply-To: <3A5C477E.CB81FA21@ccs.bbk.ac.uk>
Message-ID:
On Wed, 10 Jan 2001, Ken Brown wrote:
> One of the interesting, and to my mind odd, things is that they
> *aren't* "popping up in tax havens around the world". They are popping
> up in little islands that are formally or effectively under British
> colonial rule, if not actually occupied by the British army.
You mean like Belize and it's tax free zones? You're thesis that these
small commenwealth countries aren't tax heavens is incorrect. There was an
article in Wired just a couple of months ago about two .com dipshits with
no clue who were down there trying to make a go of it.
____________________________________________________________________
Before a larger group can see the virtue of an idea, a
smaller group must first understand it.
"Stranger Suns"
George Zebrowski
The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate
Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com
www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087
-====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From ravage at einstein.ssz.com Wed Jan 10 05:35:58 2001
From: ravage at einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 07:35:58 -0600
Subject: IP & copyright - Somebody with a clue?
Message-ID: <3A5C653E.6D43F0BA@ssz.com>
The original article is over on /.. Apparently Baen Books is willing to
put their wallet where there mouth is to prove that the current IP argument
is doomed. It will be an interesting experiment.
http://www.baen.com/library/header.htm
--
____________________________________________________________________
Before a larger group can see the virtue of an idea, a
smaller group must first understand it.
"Stranger Suns"
George Zebrowski
The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate
Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage at ssz.com
www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087
-====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
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From rguerra at yahoo.com Wed Jan 10 04:53:42 2001
From: rguerra at yahoo.com (Robert Guerra)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 07:53:42 -0500
Subject: crypto implementation for small footprint devices
In-Reply-To: <20010110020023.C19147@cluebot.com>
Message-ID: <39531.3188102022@hse-toronto-ppp262035.sympatico.ca>
--On Wednesday, January 10, 2001 2:00 AM -0500 Declan McCullagh
wrote:
> It also might be worth checking out the elliptic curve apps that run
> on Palm OS. --Declan
>
Declan:
A Canadian company, Certicom