From email at exoticwhispers.com Tue Jul 1 09:09:51 1997
From: email at exoticwhispers.com (email at exoticwhispers.com)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 09:09:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Legal Adult Content
Message-ID: <199707011126.HAA27257@loki.atcon.com>
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From dformosa at st.nepean.uws.edu.au Tue Jul 1 04:46:26 1997
From: dformosa at st.nepean.uws.edu.au (? the Platypus {aka David Formosa})
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 19:46:26 +0800
Subject: Dr. Dobbs Cryptography and Security CD-ROM
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:
[Coderpunks removed as its off topic there.]
On Mon, 30 Jun 1997, Bill Frantz wrote:
> Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 21:57:39 -0700
[...]
> At 8:58 AM -0700 7/1/97, Peter Gutmann wrote:
> >What makes this case especially awkward is the fact that the CDROM can't
> >legally be sold outside the US, which means the only way the rest of the
> >world can get it is through illegal copies.
IIRC if something is not published in australia within some time perod of
it getting published elsewhere interesting things happen to the
copy and publishing rights.
Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from agraphia see the url in my header.
Never trust a country with more peaple then sheep. Buy easter bilbies.
Save the ABC Is $0.08 per day too much to pay? ex-net.scum and prouud
I'm sorry but I just don't consider 'because its yukky' a convinceing argument
From kent at songbird.com Tue Jul 1 04:58:30 1997
From: kent at songbird.com (Kent Crispin)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 19:58:30 +0800
Subject: NRA and National Online Records Check bullshit
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID: <19970701044410.04530@bywater.songbird.com>
On Mon, Jun 30, 1997 at 06:37:56PM -0700, Lucky Green wrote:
> The idea is that the criminal has received their punishment once released
> from prison.
OTOH, there is no necessity at all to think of it that way.
Prison isn't the only punishment -- there is nothing in the
Constitution or anywhere else that says that. (Certainly, not being
able to own a gun is in no meaningful sense a "cruel or unusual"
punishment.) A court that can impose a life sentence can impose a
lifetime ban on certain activities -- there is nothing at all
inconsistent here.
Another fallacy is to think that prison is a temporary phenomenon.
"Been to prison" is a permanent state -- it marks you for life.
"Convicted Felon" is a permanent legal condition, a title with
permanent social effects.
You are probaboy thinking that after a person has "paid their debt to
society" things are just like they were before. It's a nice theory,
but it's false. It's not like money. Your "debt to society" is not
paid off by a prison term.
> Any further infringements on the person's rights are
> unacceptable. That includes the person's Natural Right to acquire
> fully-automaticweapons, should he so desire. [BTW, the nature of the crime
> committed is irrelevant].
"Let the punishment fit the crime". The crime is *always* relevant to
the punishment, the punishment is *always* a function of the crime. It
is incoherent and unjust to think otherwise.
A punishment can certainly infringe your "Natural Rights" -- you can
be executed, after all.
--
Kent Crispin "No reason to get excited",
kent at songbird.com the thief he kindly spoke...
PGP fingerprint: B1 8B 72 ED 55 21 5E 44 61 F4 58 0F 72 10 65 55
http://songbird.com/kent/pgp_key.html
From dlv at bwalk.dm.com Tue Jul 1 05:48:50 1997
From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 20:48:50 +0800
Subject: NRA and National Online Records Check bullshit
In-Reply-To: <19970701044410.04530@bywater.songbird.com>
Message-ID:
Kent Crispin writes:
> "Convicted Felon" is a permanent legal condition, a title with
> permanent social effects.
Weren't all felonies capital crimes initially?
A hungry little boy convicted of stealing a loaf of bread would hang.
Some time later the felons were given a choice of going to the gallows
or to Australia.
A convicted felon freed after a jail sentence is a fairly recent invention.
---
Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps
From nobody at REPLAY.COM Tue Jul 1 06:32:20 1997
From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 21:32:20 +0800
Subject: mailing list
Message-ID: <199707011318.PAA01313@basement.replay.com>
When did it become acceptable to be so stupid??? How many systems-experts do you know who use
AOL frequently.
OOh...I forgot about that new section, PGP For Dummies...(chuckle)
C
From tcmarket at toad.com Tue Jul 1 06:36:18 1997
From: tcmarket at toad.com (tcmarket at toad.com)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 21:36:18 +0800
Subject: Turn Your Debts Into Real Wealth!!
Message-ID: <19970701131833.ABE1836@Default>
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From declan at well.com Tue Jul 1 07:41:42 1997
From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 22:41:42 +0800
Subject: Novell's Eric Schmidt on rating systems
Message-ID:
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 07:27:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: Declan McCullagh
To: fight-censorship at vorlon.mit.edu
Subject: Novell's Eric Schmidt on rating systems
So I'm logged in from the library of the National Press Club (my
membership dues are finally going for something useful), where I just came
from a breakfast meeting with Eric Schmidt, the CEO of Novell.
We talked Net-politics, from copyright to crypto to Net-taxes. But I also
pressed him on the problems of PICS-based rating systems like RSACi,
noting that other governments have started to make them mandatory -- in a
voluntary sort of way.
"In the U.S., we're going to have all sorts of folks saying we need to
have a mandatory rating system for web content.. The industry has pushed
very hard for individuals to control things, not governments," he said.
What about PICS making it easier for other governments to censor the Net?
"We are not the other government's keeper... The beauty of the PICS stuff
is that it's a framework for having the debate," he said.
Next stop: the White House, where I expect this will come up again this
afternon...
-Declan
From tcmay at got.net Tue Jul 1 08:35:49 1997
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 23:35:49 +0800
Subject: Free markets and crypto
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19691231160000.006d0374@best.com>
Message-ID:
At 7:58 PM -0700 6/30/97, Declan McCullagh wrote:
>Ah, but what is a market except voluntary transactions between people?
>What is good for the market is good for the people.
>
I certainly agree with this, if the proper interpretations of terms are made.
Unfortunately, there is a growing distinction being made between "voluntary
transactions" of _people_ and of _corporations_.
(The most stunning example of this, as Declan of course knows, being the
"Title 7" stuff in the Civil Rights Act, which takes away a person's right
to associtate with persons with whom he wishes to associate--he can't
choose to hire only Chinese, or no cripples, or only Mormons, and so on.)
And in the crypto debate, the term "market" has mostly been interpreted by
people to mean: Netscape, Microsoft, PGP, RSADSI, C2net, Verisign, etc.
I don't believe corporations have any more rights--or any more
restrictions--than individuals do. So in this sense I agree with Declan's
point. But my view is in a minority.
Thus, care is warranted when discussing "market solutions."
--Tim May
There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws.
Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay at got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."
From paul at fatmans.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 1 08:53:01 1997
From: paul at fatmans.demon.co.uk (Paul Bradley)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 23:53:01 +0800
Subject: NRA and National Online Records Check bullshit
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:
> > however, banning ownership of guns for any felony is definitely not at
> > all reasonable.
> >
>
> It beats being banned from possessing weapons for living in the U.K.
I don`t know: most UK citizen-units are guilty of criminal stupidity,
maybe this implies a ban on ownership of guns? ;-)...
Datacomms Technologies data security
Paul Bradley, Paul at fatmans.demon.co.uk
Paul at crypto.uk.eu.org, Paul at cryptography.uk.eu.org
Http://www.cryptography.home.ml.org/
Email for PGP public key, ID: FC76DA85
"Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey"
From paul at fatmans.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 1 08:59:24 1997
From: paul at fatmans.demon.co.uk (Paul Bradley)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 23:59:24 +0800
Subject: NRA and National Online Records Check bullshit
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:
> The idea is that the criminal has received their punishment once released
> from prison. Any further infringements on the person's rights are
> unacceptable. That includes the person's Natural Right to acquire
> fully-automatic weapons, should he so desire. [BTW, the nature of the crime
> committed is irrelevant].
Not so, I believe Kent pointed out the US statute that describes
unreasonable punishment as being "cruel and unusual", banning ownership
of firearms as part of the punishment for a violent crime seems perfectly
reasonable to me, but foo on that anyway: punishment should fit the
crime, if you commit murder or rape or any one of a number of such
serious crimes I see no reason why you shouldn`t be punished cruelly.
I can see the point of view which accepts serving of sentence as being
the end of punishment, and I do not accept a ban on firearms as being
implicit in the commision of a felony, but if a court explicitly states
that part of the punishment should be a X year or lifetime ban I can
accept that.
Datacomms Technologies data security
Paul Bradley, Paul at fatmans.demon.co.uk
Paul at crypto.uk.eu.org, Paul at cryptography.uk.eu.org
Http://www.cryptography.home.ml.org/
Email for PGP public key, ID: FC76DA85
"Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey"
From geeman at best.com Tue Jul 1 09:14:28 1997
From: geeman at best.com (geeman at best.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 00:14:28 +0800
Subject: Marc Andreessen on encryption and CDA
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970701084404.006d101c@best.com>
I suppose that's why US displays the greatest income disparity between rich
and poor of
any of the industrialized nations? Why some 10 or 20 billionaires
collectively own more
wealth than some 20% of the world's population? Or were you being sarcastic?
At 07:58 PM 6/30/97 -0700, Declan McCullagh wrote:
>Ah, but what is a market except voluntary transactions between people?
>What is good for the market is good for the people.
>
>-Declan
>
>On Mon, 30 Jun 1997 geeman at best.com wrote:
>
>> My biggest problem is when the pundits (and by extension, those that punt
>> to them)
>> frame this entire debate in terms of the Market. To do so is to argue that
>> only solutions
>> that are good for The Market are good solutions; that when a particular
>> policy is market-agnostic
>> or market-negative, even though it may be good policy for People (yes,
>> remember them ???) it is irrelevant or
>> bad. This debate is NOT about the Worldwide Encryption Market!
>>
>
>
>
From paul at fatmans.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 1 09:44:36 1997
From: paul at fatmans.demon.co.uk (Paul Bradley)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 00:44:36 +0800
Subject: Dr. Dobbs Cryptography and Security CD-ROM
In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19970630095754.0075943c@popd.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID:
> Adam Back, by contrast, said he'd be quite pleased if some US cypherpunk
> were to physically mail him a copy of the disk, which he'd pay for.
> While that's arguably violating export laws, it's not ripping anyone off.
I don`t believe in copyright in general, but I would be perfectly happy
to pay a US cpunk to send me a copy of this CD-ROM, *BUT*, physically
mailing a copy like this is more risky for the US Cpunk. I don`t believe
in ripping people off, and rarely copy copyrighted material, but I don`t
hold with copyright laws and see nothing wrong with this being posted.
Datacomms Technologies data security
Paul Bradley, Paul at fatmans.demon.co.uk
Paul at crypto.uk.eu.org, Paul at cryptography.uk.eu.org
Http://www.cryptography.home.ml.org/
Email for PGP public key, ID: FC76DA85
"Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey"
From declan at well.com Tue Jul 1 09:55:08 1997
From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 00:55:08 +0800
Subject: Free markets and crypto
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:
I of course agree with Tim. Corporations are merely voluntary collections
of individuals.
As for civil rights laws: in my dark moments, I want to add a button to my
web page: "Only click here if you are (or are not) Irish." Or "No African
Americans allowed." Or "Nobody over 60 years old permitted." I wonder,
would I be in violation of Title 7?
-Declan
At 08:29 -0700 7/1/97, Tim May wrote:
>Unfortunately, there is a growing distinction being made between "voluntary
>transactions" of _people_ and of _corporations_.
>
>(The most stunning example of this, as Declan of course knows, being the
>"Title 7" stuff in the Civil Rights Act, which takes away a person's right
>to associtate with persons with whom he wishes to associate--he can't
>choose to hire only Chinese, or no cripples, or only Mormons, and so on.)
>
>And in the crypto debate, the term "market" has mostly been interpreted by
>people to mean: Netscape, Microsoft, PGP, RSADSI, C2net, Verisign, etc.
>
>I don't believe corporations have any more rights--or any more
>restrictions--than individuals do. So in this sense I agree with Declan's
>point. But my view is in a minority.
>
>Thus, care is warranted when discussing "market solutions."
From geeman at best.com Tue Jul 1 09:56:13 1997
From: geeman at best.com (geeman at best.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 00:56:13 +0800
Subject: Has your privacy been invaded? Protected? Both?
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19691231160000.006ac2d4@best.com>
At 08:46 PM 6/30/97 -0400, you wrote:
>
>We hear a lot of steamy rhetoric about privacy and the information age, but
>few real-world examples. I'm working on a story now for Time about just
>this: what's happening to individual privacy today.
I assmue you will protect the anonymity of any contributors even while
sharing your generous payment with them! ;)
>
>Does the Net make us more exposed -- DejaNews and 411-type databases -- or
>does it provide us with more privacy through tools like anonymous remailers
>and pseudonymous identities?
As a reader of cpunks the following should be obvious: the access to
information from 411-etc. is simple and accessible to anyone who can type in
a browser! On the other hand, remailers and nym servers are still solely the
purview of propeller-heads. The remailer pages I have seen and tried to use
are unreliable - and to use PGP remailers requires a level of PGP-ability
that the average Joe won't invest in.
Most people have Work to do, and cannot invest in the time to figure out how
to use software. If we want to see pervasive use of privacy-preserving
technologies then developers must realize this and develop for the Mass
Market. PGP 5, PGPMail are certainly helpful and not enough. What I am
concerned about is that in the absence of easy-to-use (that means
no-effort-to-use) privacy software, the average Joe will rely on whatever is
there for him: and in the limit this will mean whatever infrastructure the
Powers-that-be want put in place for him, and not one that preserves his
rights. (Forgive the gender bias: I'll switch now)
There is no level of privacy afforded the average 'user' as simple to use as
the intrusve technologies that are available to the snoop.
>Can we trust the government to protect our
>privacy when it works tirelessly to invade it?
>
Sometimes it is better to trust Government than it is to trust Big Business,
although too often they converge onto identical tracks becuase of the
ownership of Gov't *by* Big Business. I see two equally onerous invasions:
One is the insistence of Government that the benefit of crypto to the Four
Horsewomen of the Infocalypse (Porn, Drug Dealing, Money Laundering, and
Terrorism), and the corresponding threat to society, is so large as to
warrant registering everyone's secret-telling capability. The other is the
intrusion by Business and Employers into the habits of consumers and workers.
From click-tracking on the Web to the recently reported monitoring of every
7-11 manager's move at the POS terminal, Business is no friend of the People.
That this is perhaps the more insidious threat is manifest by your not even
mentioning it or including it in the question set. I fear Businesses who say
"Government leave us alone because the Free Market knows what's best" and
then proceed to invade and intrude in ways that are equally damaging to the
privacy of the individual. The philosophy that if Business invades privacy
it's OK, and if Government does so it's bad, is to say that 2+2=5.
>Much has been written about this. What I'm looking for now are examples.
>Have you used an anonymous remailer to cloak your identity, or been flamed
>through one? Have you been denied a transaction at a store because you
>refused to identify yourself? Have you hunted through databases to find
>someone important? Has sensitive information about you turned up in one?
>
I have been fairly careful and very jealous of my privacy; and then my name
and home address showed up on one of the name-search pages. I don't know if
it's still there, and I don't remember the link. But then the Similac
marketing Geniuses sent me something in the mail that even included the due
date of my expected child! I consider that sensitive as hell, and it didn't
occur via the Web. The problem is across the board.
I use anonymizing tools when I need to, to protect what I consider "things"
that are too sensitive for the Web. I have looked up past friends on the
Web, and then not called because I felt it would be an intrusion into their
life. I have found the ability to search for information on PUBLIC figures
important and useful, looking for items related to their professional
activities, and I think this is an important capability. The opportunity for
People to make sure that the elected officials they elect and pay for, and
the businesses that pave their towns and dump toxics into their yards, are
behaving responsibly, is one of the few remaining possibilities for positive
change.
In the meantime, I'm wondering, as I wander off to renew my driver's license,
why they want my social security number.
And I still don't know how Similac figured out when my wife and I had sex.
(C) Copyright 1997 by ..... oops! I don't want to include my name.
>I'd appreciate hearing some stories...
>
>Thanks all,
>
>Declan
>
>
>-------------------------
>Declan McCullagh
>Time Inc.
>The Netly News Network
>Washington Correspondent
>http://netlynews.com/
>
>
>
>
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
At 08:46 PM 6/30/97 -0400, you wrote:
>
>We hear a lot of steamy rhetoric about privacy and the information age, but
>few real-world examples. I'm working on a story now for Time about just
>this: what's happening to individual privacy today.
I assmue you will protect the anonymity of any contributors even while
sharing your generous payment with them! ;)
>
>Does the Net make us more exposed -- DejaNews and 411-type databases -- or
>does it provide us with more privacy through tools like anonymous remailers
>and pseudonymous identities?
As a reader of cpunks the following should be obvious: the access to
information from 411-etc. is simple and accessible to anyone who can type in
a browser! On the other hand, remailers and nym servers are still solely the
purview of propeller-heads. The remailer pages I have seen and tried to use
are unreliable - and to use PGP remailers requires a level of PGP-ability
that the average Joe won't invest in.
Most people have Work to do, and cannot invest in the time to figure out how
to use software. If we want to see pervasive use of privacy-preserving
technologies then developers must realize this and develop for the Mass
Market. PGP 5, PGPMail are certainly helpful and not enough. What I am
concerned about is that in the absence of easy-to-use (that means
no-effort-to-use) privacy software, the average Joe will rely on whatever is
there for him: and in the limit this will mean whatever infrastructure the
Powers-that-be want put in place for him, and not one that preserves his
rights. (Forgive the gender bias: I'll switch now)
There is no level of privacy afforded the average 'user' as simple to use as
the intrusve technologies that are available to the snoop.
>Can we trust the government to protect our
>privacy when it works tirelessly to invade it?
>
Sometimes it is better to trust Government than it is to trust Big Business,
although too often they converge onto identical tracks becuase of the
ownership of Gov't *by* Big Business. I see two equally onerous invasions:
One is the insistence of Government that the benefit of crypto to the Four
Horsewomen of the Infocalypse (Porn, Drug Dealing, Money Laundering, and
Terrorism), and the corresponding threat to society, is so large as to
warrant registering everyone's secret-telling capability. The other is the
intrusion by Business and Employers into the habits of consumers and workers.
From click-tracking on the Web to the recently reported monitoring of every
7-11 manager's move at the POS terminal, Business is no friend of the People.
That this is perhaps the more insidious threat is manifest by your not even
mentioning it or including it in the question set. I fear Businesses who say
"Government leave us alone because the Free Market knows what's best" and
then proceed to invade and intrude in ways that are equally damaging to the
privacy of the individual. The philosophy that if Business invades privacy
it's OK, and if Government does so it's bad, is to say that 2+2=5.
>Much has been written about this. What I'm looking for now are examples.
>Have you used an anonymous remailer to cloak your identity, or been flamed
>through one? Have you been denied a transaction at a store because you
>refused to identify yourself? Have you hunted through databases to find
>someone important? Has sensitive information about you turned up in one?
>
I have been fairly careful and very jealous of my privacy; and then my name
and home address showed up on one of the name-search pages. I don't know if
it's still there, and I don't remember the link. But then the Similac
marketing Geniuses sent me something in the mail that even included the due
date of my expected child! I consider that sensitive as hell, and it didn't
occur via the Web. The problem is across the board.
I use anonymizing tools when I need to, to protect what I consider "things"
that are too sensitive for the Web. I have looked up past friends on the
Web, and then not called because I felt it would be an intrusion into their
life. I have found the ability to search for information on PUBLIC figures
important and useful, looking for items related to their professional
activities, and I think this is an important capability. The opportunity for
People to make sure that the elected officials they elect and pay for, and
the businesses that pave their towns and dump toxics into their yards, are
behaving responsibly, is one of the few remaining possibilities for positive
change.
In the meantime, I'm wondering, as I wander off to renew my driver's license,
why they want my social security number.
And I still don't know how Similac figured out when my wife and I had sex.
(C) Copyright 1997 by ..... oops! I don't want to include my name.
>I'd appreciate hearing some stories...
>
>Thanks all,
>
>Declan
>
>
>-------------------------
>Declan McCullagh
>Time Inc.
>The Netly News Network
>Washington Correspondent
>http://netlynews.com/
>
>
>
>
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From tcmay at got.net Tue Jul 1 09:56:51 1997
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 00:56:51 +0800
Subject: NRA and National Online Records Check bullshit
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:
At 7:46 AM -0700 7/1/97, Paul Bradley wrote:
...
>Not so, I believe Kent pointed out the US statute that describes
>unreasonable punishment as being "cruel and unusual", banning ownership
>of firearms as part of the punishment for a violent crime seems perfectly
>reasonable to me, but foo on that anyway: punishment should fit the
>crime, if you commit murder or rape or any one of a number of such
>serious crimes I see no reason why you shouldn`t be punished cruelly.
The apparent meaning of "cruel and unusual" had to do with things like
torture, death by starvation, death by immersion in hot oil, and other such
things which some regimes had practiced. The "design goal" of all U.S.
capital punishment methods is generally "quick and painless."
- Hanging--very quick and very painless (the neck is snapped, and
consciousness vanishes)
- Firing squad--no further explanation needed (assuming multiple rounds hit
the target)
- Electrocution--originally designed to render subject unconscious almost
immediately. Whether it does this merits discussion, but the original
intent was surely for a "scientific" fast death (just as the guillotine was
similarly designed)
- Gas chamber--cyanide produces rapid unconsciousness
- Lethal injection--the "new" scientific method. Obviously painless.
>I can see the point of view which accepts serving of sentence as being
>the end of punishment, and I do not accept a ban on firearms as being
>implicit in the commision of a felony, but if a court explicitly states
>that part of the punishment should be a X year or lifetime ban I can
>accept that.
Does this mean that you would "accept" a wording which took away a released
convict's ability to speak freely, or to practice the religion of his
choice?
("Upon completion of your 6-month sentence for public blasphemy, you must
renounce Baalism and accept the religion so ordered by the court.")
Why is this any different from taking away Second Amendment rights?
There is sometimes a loophole for taking away some particular right, or
interfering with it in a special way, a la the language of "compelling
needs." This is how the courts look at the putative conflict of rights, as
in things like "the state has a compelling need to protect minors from
these materials." Then there's the related language of "overbroad."
But how does a lifetime, blanket ban on possession of firearms--i.e., a
complete denial of Second Amendment rights--for any of tens of thousands of
claimed "felonies" fit with this "compelling need" model? What's the
compelling need for the state to deny Second Amendment rights for life to
someone convicted of fraud or money laundering?
The compelling need appears to be related to the general trend of disarming
as many of the marks as possible, as soon as possible.
(I understand, Paul, that you are not a U.S. citizen, but this is the
framework for the current discussion.)
--Tim May
There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws.
Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay at got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."
From declan at well.com Tue Jul 1 10:33:31 1997
From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 01:33:31 +0800
Subject: DEF CON V Convention Announcement #1.19 (06.30.97)
Message-ID:
[I'm planning to show up Friday morning. Anyone else going? --Declan]
*******
READ & DISTRIBUTE & READ & DISTRIBUTE & READ & DISTRIBUTE & READ & DISTRIB
DEF CON V Convention Announcement #1.19 (06.30.97)
July 11-13th @ the Aladdin Hotel and Casino in Las Vegas
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READ & DISTRIBUTE & READ & DISTRIBUTE & READ & DISTRIBUTE & READ & DISTRIB
The only convention with free beer!
IN SHORT:--------------------------------------------------------------------
WHAT: Speakers and partying in Vegas for all hackers
WHEN: July 11th - 13th
WHERE: Las Vegas, Nevada @ the Aladdin Hotel and Casino
COSTS: $30 in advance, $40 at the door
MORE INFO: http://www.defcon.org or email info at defcon.org
IN LONG:---------------------------------------------------------------------
It's time to brave Las Vegas again for DEF CON! This is an initial
announcement and invitation to DEF CON V, a convention for the "underground"
elements of the computer culture. We try to target the (Fill in your
favorite word here): Hackers, Phreaks, Hammies, Virii Coders, Programmers,
Crackers, Cyberpunk Wannabees, Civil Liberties Groups, CypherPunks,
Futurists, Artists, Criminally Insane, Hearing Impaired. It seems that
books about the culture are becoming more popular, so of course reporters
are also welcome. You won't be hurt. I promise. Just bring cash for
drinks.
So you heard about DEF CON IV, and want to hit part V? You heard about the
parties, the info discussed, the bizarre atmosphere of Las Vegas and want to
check it out in person? You want to do weird shit _away_ from the hotel
where you can't get me in trouble? You have intimate knowledge of the SWIFT
network, and want to transfer millions of dollars to the Def Con account?
Then you're just the person to attend!
What DEF CON is known for is the open discussion of all ideas, the free
environment to make new contacts and the lack of ego. More people have made
great friends at DEF CON over the years than my brain can conceive of. DEF
CON is also known for letting the "Suits" (Government / Corporate) mix with
everyone and get an idea of what the scene is all about. The media makes an
appearance every year and we try to educate them as to what is really going
on. Basically it has turned into the place to be if you are at all
interested in the computer underground.
[Note]-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Now last year over 800 people showed up and threw my whole program for a
loop. I was thinking 500+ people, but when 800 showed up it got a little
crazy for the planning staff. This year I am planning for 1,000. This
way I will be able to accommodate everyone and have less logistical screw-
ups.
I would also like to apologize to everyone last year who had temporary
badges for half the convention, etc. I will do all that is possible for
maximum coolness, and minimum hassles. Anyway, enough of my shit, on with
the details.
[End Note]-------------------------------------------------------------------
SPEAKERS:--------------------------------------------------------------------
Over the years DEF CON has had many notable speakers. This year there will
be more of an emphasis on technical talks. There will be a separate smaller
room for break-out sessions of more specific topics. While the talks of the
past have been great, it always seems some tech people drop out and general
talks fill in. I will load it tech heavy so when people do drop out there
will still be plenty of meat left for the propeller heads.
There will be some speaking on Friday evening before Hacker Jeopardy, all
day Saturday and Sunday. About 20 people will speak, plus smaller tech
sessions. If you are interested in speaking or demonstrating something
please contact me.
Current speakers include:
[> Nhil - Windows NT (in)security. The challenge response system, NT 5.0
Kerb security services, man in the middle attacks on domain controllers.
This will be a more technical discussion of NT related security.
[> Koresh - Hacking Novell Netware.
[> Yobie - Emerging infrastructures made possible by Java. He will describe
and talk about Java as the foundation for a global, object-oriented
distributed network. New concepts and computing paradigms will discussed
as well as applications for both applications development or straight-out
hacking.
[> Mudge - System Administrator for L0pht Heavy Industries. He will present
a technical talk on something cool.
[> Clovis - From the Hacker Jeopardy winning team. He will discuss issues
with security and networked object systems, looking at some of the
recent security issues found with activeX and detail some of the
potentials and problems with network objects. Topics will include
development of objects, distributed objects, standards, ActiveX, corba,
and hacking objects.
[> Bruce Schneier - Author of Applied Cryptography and the Blowfish
algorithm - Why cryptography is harder than it looks.
[> FBI Computer Crime Squad - They will make another appearance this year
only if I can bribe them with the audio from last years convention. Can
I do it in time?
[> Richard Thieme - "The Dynamics of Social Engineering: a cognitive map for
getting what you need to know, working in networks, and engaging in
espionage quietly; the uses of paranoia, imagination, and grandiosity
to build the Big Picture.
[> Wrangler - Packet Sniffing: He will define the idea, explain everything
from 802.2 frames down to the TCP datagram, and explain the mechanisms
(NIT, bpf) that different platforms provide to allow the hack.
Wrangler has been programming since seven column paper tape. He is a
loner with the social skills of a California Condor. He has never been
a member of LOD, MOD, or any other group. He has written no books, is
not currently employed, and refuses to discuss what he refers to as "that
credit card provider thing back when I used to do mainframe shit." His
current projects include looking for his next Fortune 100 contract and
writing the DEFCON V virus.
[> Seven - What the feds think of us.
[> Richard K. - Electronic countermeasures, counter espionage, risk
management. Should include a demonstration of electronic
countermeasures equipment as well as a talk on what works, what doesn't,
and the industry.
[> Tom Farley the Publisher of the "Private Line" journal, and Ken
Kumasawa of TeleDesign Management - Toll Fraud in the 90s: Two
perspectives. An overview of phreaking from a hackers point of view and
an industry/security consultants point.
[> Michael Quattrocchi - The future of digital cash and a presentation about
the modernization and state of register-level debit cards; in effect
currently throughout Canada.
[> The Deth Vegetable - "The Cult of the Dead Cow embarks on a new era of
Global Domination for the 21st Century three years early -- if you're
not at Defcon this year, you won't be down with the master plan.
Important announcements and startling new developments that will affect
the entire history of the Computer Underground as you know it."
[> Ira Winkler - Real life case studies of successful and unsuccessful
corporate espionage.
[> Sameer Parekh - c2.net - Why cryptography is harder than it looks, part
two. A look at implementation and production problems facing people and
companies wishing to develope and distribute strong encryption.
[> Carolyn P. Meinel - Moderator of the Happy Hacker Digest and mailing
lists. She will preside over a seperate Happy Hacker discussion
pannel that will cover the topics of wether or not "newbies" should have
information handed to them, or should they learn for themselves?
[> Dan Veeneman - Low Earth Orbit satellites are nearing the launch stage,
and this talk will cover the different systems that are planned and some
of the services they'll offer. A bit on GPS that wasn't covered last
year as well as the ever popular question and answer section.
[> Hobbit - CIFS is a load of CACA - Random SMB CIFS stuff in Microsfot
products.
[> Cyber - An overview and explanation of available crypto-tools. What
tools and programs do what, when to use them and on what platforms.
From someone who has spent lots of time playing around with the
currently available set of applications.
[> Keith - Has some experience writing firmware for embedded
microcontroller applications, and is giving a technical talk on
applications of microcontrollers in the h/p community.
[> James Jorasch - Hacking Vegas - How to games the gamers. From someone
who used to deal with hotel casino security. What really goes on?
SCHEDULE:--------------------------------------------------------------------
FRIDAY: Network Setup, Sign in, Informal PGP Keysigning at the "PGP table",
Lots of Partying. Capture the Flag Contest Starts at 16:00
On Friday there will be the demonstrations of the Radio Burst Cannon, a
"real" rail gun, and an omni-directional cell phone jammer. Times to be
announced.
10:00 - Doors open, sign in starts
10:00 - Movies start in main conference room
16:00 - Capture the Flag II starts
15:30 - Round up and head off for demonstrations of HERF, and
rail gun madness. Nothing may happen, then again..
23:30 - 23:00 James Jorasch - "Hacking Vegas" how to beat the system in
Vegas by someone who knows it inside and out.
23:00 - 03:00 Hacker Jeopardy Starts.
SATURDAY:
10:00 - 10:50 Richard Thieme - The Dynamics of Social Engineering.
11:00 - 11:50 Yobie - Emerging infrastructures made possible by Java.
12:00 - 12:50 Clovis - issues with security and networked object systems.
13:00 - 13:50 FBI Computer Crime Squad -
14:00 - 14:50 Deth Veggie - Global Domination, cDc style.
15:00 - 15:50 Seven - What the feds think of us.
16:00 - 16:50 Richard K. -
17:00 - 17:50 Tom Farley and Ken K. - Toll Fraud in the 90s: Two
perspectives.
Saturday Breakout Tech Sessions:
Koresh - Novell issues.
Mudge - Secure Coding.
Hobbit - Why CIFS is CACA.
Nihil - NT security issues.
Wrangler - Packet Sniffing.
Keith - firmware for embedded microcontroller applications.
24:00 (Midnight) Final rounds of Hacker Jeopardy.
SUNDAY:
10:00 - 10:50 Ira Winkler - Industrial Espionage.
11:00 - 11:50 Sameer - Why cryptography is harder than it looks, part two.
12:00 - 12:50 Cyber - An overview and explanation of available crypto-tools.
13:00 - 13:50 Carolyn Meinel - Happy Hacker Panel.
14:00 - 14:50 Michael Q. - The future of digital cash.
15:00 - 15:50 Dan Veeneman - Low Earth Orbit satellites.
Sunday Breakout Tech Sessions:
Happy Hacker track
Panel: "The Newbie Experiments"
Moderator is Carolyn Meinel, author of the Guides to (mostly) Harmless
Hacking series. Other panel members are:
- Matt Hinze, editor of the Happy Hacker Digest.
- Bronc Buster, who runs a Web forum, IRC server and the New Buckaroos Web
site for his fast-growing band of newbies.
- Mark Biernacki of Shellonly.com will talk about this new ISP which is
designed to make it easy for newbies to learn to hack. Just say "Telnet
port 22!"
- Jericho, who will hold forth on "Let the newbies fend for themselves."
We will allow each panel member to open with a brief presentation of his or
her work, followed by debate first among panel members, followed by Q&A from
the audience. We expect some intense debate:-)
Then if the Aladdin hotel hasn't yet been demolished yet by riots, we will
continue with a series of individual presentations:
- Jon McClintock, editor of Happy-SAD (Systems Administrator Digest) will
demonstrate how to install Linux.
- Bronc Buster will hold forth on the Windows 95 denial of service programs
his Web site offers.
- Carolyn Meinel will demonstrate how to read email headers, create, and
decipher forged email.
Breakout Tech Sessions:
16:00 Awards for Capture the Flag
End of it all, cleanup, etc. See you all next year!
EVENTS:----------------------------------------------------------------------
[> HACKER JEOPARDY:
Winn is back with Hacker Jeopardy!! The third year in the running!
Can the all-powerful Strat and his crypto-minion Erik, whose force
cannot be contained, be defeated?! Will the powers that be allow
Strat-Meister to dominate this beloved event for the third year in
a row?! Can Erik continue to pimp-slap the audience into submission
with a spoon in his mouth?!? Only Skill, Time, and booze will tell
the tail!
The Holy Cow will help supply the beer, you supply the answers.
The first round starts at 12 midnight o'clock on Friday and lasts
until it is done. The second and secret rounds will happen Saturday
at midnight.
6 teams will be picked at random and compete for the final round.
There can be only one! Strat's Team, the winners from last year
will defend if all the members can be found.
[> FREE BEER!
Holy Cow will provide free beer tickets! If you are over 21 prepare
to consume "hacker" beers. Actually it's whatever beer they have on
tap, but it's the best beer in Las Vegas. Follow Las Vegas Blvd. up
until you see the florescent cow with the big sunglasses. All taxi
drivers know of this Mecca. Over 1,000 free beers in all!
[> BLACK AND WHITE BALL:
We've talked it over, and the verdict is in. For the last two years
at DEF CON there has been a sort of unspoken Saturday night dress up
event. People have worn everything from party dresses and Tuxedoes
to AJ's ultra pimp Swank outfit with tiger print kilt. This year it
is official. Wear your cool shit Saturday night, be it gothic or PVC
vinyl or Yakuza looking black MIBs. No prizes, just your chance to
be the uber-bustah pimp.
[> THE TCP/IP DRINKING GAME:
If you don't know the rules, you'll figure 'em out.
[> CAPTURE THE FLAG:
ALL NEW, ALL IMPROVED, MORE CONFRONTATIONAL,
1997 ILLUMINATI INVITATIONAL,
CAPTURE THE FLAG, HACKER STYLE.
The goal is to take over everybody else's server while protecting your
own. To cut down on lag time and federal offences we're providing a
playing field of 5 flag-machine networks connected by a big router in
the middle.
The rules:
1) No taking the network down for more than 60 seconds.
2) No taking any flag machine (including your own) down for more than
3 minutes.
3) In order to be counted in the game, a team's flag machine must
- be directly connected to the network;
- have a text file flag on the machine readable by at least 2
accounts,
- keep at least 3 *normal* services running in a way that a
client could actually get their work done using them.
- run a web server if technically possible.
4) No goonery/summoning of elder gods/Mickey Finns/physical
coercion... you get the idea. ( You had the idea, but we're
trying to prevent you from using it. )
The field of play :
Each network will have a "server" of some kind on it, called the flag
machine. At the start of the game, these servers will be stock
installations a lot like what you'd see on the average academic/secret
cabal/military/megacorp network. Each of these machines will have a
PGP private key, named root.flag, and a web server.
There will also be a machine to provide DNS, called the scoreboard.
Teams:
Teams can be one human or more. In order to be a team, you have
to generate 20 256bit PGP key pairs, have a DEFCON goon pgp-sign
them and put the public keys on the scoreboard webserver. We'll
generate a hundred key pairs in advance, so the first five teams can
just grab a floppy disk (if they're trusting).
To prove that you've hacked a flag machine, PGP - sign a message with
the root.flag from the hacked machine, then with one of your own.
Post the doubly-signed message on the scorekeeper web server, and
you've captured that flag (and invalidated the captured root.flag).
When you've captured a flag, decide between conquest and
condescension: either take over the server yourself, or hand it back
to its not-so-eleet owners. To conquer, put one of your PGP private
keys on the captured server to become the next root.flag. (Of
course, you have to properly secure the server to maintain your new
territory.)
To condescend, just wait until the original owners see their shame
spread across the scoreboard. (It would sure be a pity if
they had to put up a new key before they figured out how you got in
last time, wouldn't it?)
Two Ways to Win:
#1 EVIL EMPIRE: Whoever has the most servers responding with their
teams' private keys at the end wins.
#2 PIRATE: Fabulous prizes will also be given to whoever racks up the
highest total number of flags captured.
Rough game mechanics (why is everyone so untrusting?):
Once every 5 minutes or more, the scoreboard machine will post a
plaintext challenge. Every team that claims to own a server has to
PGP-sign that challenge with the private key registered for that
server and post the signed version on their machine. If a server
can't respond within 3 minutes, then nobody owns it, and it's fair
game to be taken back over by the goons.
Specific rules will be available in print at DefCon before the game
begins.
This was a message from The People
[> QUAKE COMPETITION:
http://www.ctive.com/ntech/defcon.htm
This year knightPhlight contacted me and wanted to organize a single
elimination Quake competition to find out who that badest ass 'mo 'fo
is. Check out the web site to get the rules, sign up, or to
donate a computer the greater good of destruction.
It is IMHO that Quake by id Software rules 3D action gaming. But who
rules Quake? We'll find out this July 11th-13th at the DefCon
Conference in Las Vegas. This isn't going to be a networked game
intent on quickly eliminating as many players as possible in a single
round. Rather, one-on-one games will be played to absolutely
determine who the best really is.
Of course, you already know your the best so why would you feel
obligated to prove it? Because we'll give the first place winner
$750. Now, being the wily person you are, I bet you would like to
know where I got the money for the prizes. It'll come from your
registration fee of $7.50. Any half wit can do the math and see the
10,000% return for the winner. But just for entering you'll be in a
drawing for really kewl stuff. If you don't think its kewl you can
just give us your email address and we'll be happy to send you a
couple hundred thousand messages explaining why the prizes are great.
[> NET CONNECTION AND TOPOLOGY:
DefCon 5 Network Plan (v.99)
Telecommunications
------------------
Media Type: T1 ESF/B8ZS (not D4/AMI)
Service Provider: Las Vegas Digital Internet
Telco: Sprint
Equipment needed Equipment on-hand
---------------- ----------------------------------------------
CSU/DSU Verilink AS2000's with NCC 2301 cards (JC)
Router Cisco 2501 (Lock)
Net Admin server (Lock )
10bT Hubs 16-port from Lock - need more to populate the room
10bT Cable (miles) Everybody bring their own - will need some extra
to link hubs
Network Services:
-----------------
Web Server
CU-reflector
RealAudio Server
IRC server?
This year we are pre-building many of the network boxes so the net
can go up first thing Friday. It looks like we will have a T1 line
and we will break it out to 10 BaseT hubs. If you want in on the
network bring along the appropriate cables and adapters.
More Net Madness! The T1 bandwidth will allow us to do the
following cool stuff:
- Have several color quickcams and a CU-SeeMe reflector site set
up so people not at the con can check out what's going on. During
the convention check out the DEF CON web site to get the location
of the reflector site. You should get and install the software
needed to view CU-SeeMe streams in advance!
- Have a RealAudio server set up to stream the speakers talks to
those who can not attend.
- Potentially play a competitive multi user game(s) over the net.
NOTE! If you wish to participate interactively with the convention
please e-mail me and we can coordinate something. It would be
great to get people from all over the world involved.
[> 5th ANNUAL SPOT THE FED CONTEST:
The ever popular paranoia builder. Who IS that person next to you?
"Like a paranoid version of pin the tail on the donkey, the
favorite sport at this gathering of computer hackers and phone
phreaks seems to be hunting down real and imagined telephone
security and Federal and local law enforcement authorities who the
attendees are certain are tracking their every move.. .. Of course,
they may be right."
- John Markhoff, NYT
Basically the contest goes like this: If you see some shady MIB
(Men in Black) earphone penny loafer sunglass wearing Clint Eastwood
to live and die in LA type lurking about, point him out. Just get
my attention and claim out loud you think you have spotted a fed.
The people around at the time will then (I bet) start to discuss the
possibility of whether or not a real fed has been spotted. Once
enough people have decided that a fed has been spotted, and the
Identified Fed (I.F.) has had a say, and informal vote takes place,
and if enough people think it's a true fed, or fed wanna-be, or
other nefarious style character, you win a "I spotted the fed!"
shirt, and the I.F. gets an "I am the fed!" shirt.
NOTE TO THE FEDS: This is all in good fun, and if you survive
unmolested and undetected, but would still secretly like an "I am
the fed!" shirt to wear around the office or when booting in doors,
please contact me when no one is looking and I will take your
order(s). Just think of all the looks of awe you'll generate at
work wearing this shirt while you file away all the paperwork
you'll have to produce over this convention. I won't turn in any
feds who contact me, they have to be spotted by others.
DOUBLE SECRET NOTE TO FEDS: This year I am printing up extra "I
am the Fed!" shirts, and will be trading them for coffee mugs,
shirts or baseball hats from your favorite TLA. If you want to
swap bring along some goodies and we can trade. Be stealth about
it if you don't want people to spot you. Agents from foreign
governments are welcome to trade too, but I gotta work on my mug
collection and this is the fastest way.
[> RAIL GUN DEMONSTRATION: (Friday)
On Friday afternoon there will be a demonstration of a hand held
rail gun. This garage project should be able to fire a graphite
washer very, very fast.
[> OMNIDIRECTIONAL CELL PHONE JAMMER DEMONSTRAITON: (Friday)
Another interesting creation to be tested on Friday in the desert.
Come along and watch you cell phone antenna explode with power!
See control channels crumble before you.
[> RADIO BURST CANNON DEMONSTRATION: (Friday)
While not quite a HERF gun, this should come close. The RBC should
be able to produce up to or less than one MegaWatt for up to or less
than one second. What will this do? Who knows! Come and find out.
Obviously the above demonstrations will take place away from the
local hospitals and casinos out in the desert someplace, so be
prepared.
HOTELS:----------------------------------------------------------------------
[> Book your room NOW!!! We have a block of rooms, but it is first come,
[> first served. Rooms get released about one month before the convention.
[> Book by June 9th or risk it. The room rates are quite cool this year.
PRIMARY HOTEL: The Aladdin Hotel and Casino
3667 Las Vegas Blvd. South, Las Vegas, Nevada
Built in 1966 it is one of the oldest hotels in Las Vegas that
hasn't been blown up to make room for newer ones. It is quite nice
and has Tennis courts, two swimming pools, Chinese, Vietnamese and
Korean. A Seafood and steakhouse, Joe's Diner and a 24 hour coffee
shop too. It's located next to the MGM Theme park on the strip.
PHONE: 1-800-634-3424, reference the "DC Communications conference"
for reservations. 702-736-0222
RATES: Single & Double rooms are $65 in the Garden section, $85 for
the Tower. Suites are $250 to $350. All costs are plus 8% room tax.
Rollaway beds are available for an additional $15 a night.
STUFF IN VEGAS:--------------------------------------------------------------
URLs
Listings of other hotels in Las Vegas, their numbers, WWW pages, etc.
http://www.intermind.net/im/hotel.html
http://vegasdaily.com/HotelCasinos/HotelAndCasinos/CasinoList.html
VENDORS / SPONSORS / RESEARCH:-----------------------------------------------
If you are interested in selling something (shirts, books,
computers, whatever) and want to get a table contact me for costs.
If you have some pet research and you want to have the participants
fill out anonymous questioners please contact me for the best way
to do this.
If you want to sponsor any event or part of DEF CON V in return for
favorable mentions and media manipulation please contact me. For
example in the past Secure Computing has sponsored a firewall
hacking contest.
MORE INFO:-------------------------------------------------------------------
[> DEF CON Voice Bridge (801) 855-3326
This is a multi-line voice bbs, VMB and voice conference system.
There are 5 or so conference areas, with up to eight people on each
one. Anyone can create a free VMB, and there are different voice
bbs sections for separate topics. This is a good neutral meeting
place to hook up with others.
The Voice bridge will be changing numbers soon, but the old number
will refer you to the new location. The new spot won't suffer from
"Phantom" bridges!
[> MAILING LIST
send emial to majordomo at merde.dis.org and in the body of the message
include the following on a separate line each.
subscribe dc-stuff
dc-announce is used for convention updates and major announcements,
dc-stuff is related to general conversation, planning rides and
rooms, etc.
[> WWW Site http://www.defcon.org/
Convention updates and archives from previous conventions are housed
here. Past speakers, topics, and stuff for sale. Also a growing
section of links to other places of interest and current events.
[> The Third Annual California Car Caravan to DEF CON!
http://www.netninja.com/caravan
There are also some resources (links to other web sites and text
files) generally related to DefCon--not specifically the California
Caravan. These resources are available at:
http://www.netninja.com/caravan/resources.html
[> The DEF CON V Car ride sharing page: Use this site to arrange ride
sharing to the convention from all over North America. If you can
spare a seat for someone, or need to leech a ride go to the ride
sharing page set up by Squeaky.
http://garbage.bridge.net/~defcon/defcon.html
[> EMAIL dtangent at defcon.org
Send all email questions / comments to dtangent at defcon.org. It has
been said that my email is monitored by various people. If you want
to say something private, please do so with my pgp key (At the
bottom of this announcement) I usually respond to everything, if
not I'm swamped or had a system problem.
[> GIVE ME MONEY! SNAIL MAIL PRE-REGISTRATION
Send all written materials, pre-registrations, etc. to:
DEF CON, 2709 E. Madison, Seattle WA, 98112
If you are pre-registering for $30 please make payable to DEF CON
and include a name to which you want the registration to apply.
I don't respond to registrations unless you request.
DO YOU WANT TO HELP?---------------------------------------------------------
Here is what you can do if you want to help out or participate in
some way:
Donate stuff for the continuous giveaways and the various contests.
Got extra ancient stuff, or new cool stuff you don't use anymore?
Donate it to a good cause! One person was very happy over winning
an osborne "portable" computer.
ORGANIZE sharing a room or rides with other people in your area.
Join the mailing list and let people know you have floor space or
some extra seats in your car. Hey, what's the worst that can
happen besides a trashed hotel room or a car-jacking?
CREATE questions for hacker jeopardy (you know how the game is
played) and email them to winn at infowar.com. No one helped out last
year, so this year let's try. Everything from "Famous narks" to
"unix bugs" is fair game.
BRING a machine with a 10bt interface card, and get on the local
network, trade pgp signatures, etc.
FINAL CHECK LIST OF STUFF TO BRING:------------------------------------------
From: Enigma
Here is a list of items to bring to DefCon. These are only
suggestions. Your mileage may vary. :)
Items to bring to DefCon
~~~~~ ~~ ~~~~~ ~~ ~~~~~~
Clothing
- Comfortable shirts and pants/shorts
- Socks, underwear, etc
- Bathing suit
- Toiletries (deodorant, toothbrush, comb, hair spray,..., giant
tub of hair grease, Oxy pads, etc)
- An extra towel (don't leave home without it. Anyway, doesn't
it always seem that you run out of clean towels in the
bathroom?)
- Something cool, hip, pimp-o-matic, or ninja-riffic to wear
Saturday night at the Black and White Ball
You can skip the deodorant and extra clothing if all you are going
to do is play "Magic: The Gathering" and "Quake." Everyone else
does.
Stuph
- Your shades. Vegas is hot. The sun is bright. 'Nuff said.
(If you wear eye glasses, I hear the clip-on, flip-up sunglasses
are quite the fashion statement)
- Sunscreen of at least SPF 100. After spending hundreds of hours
in front of the monitor, who needs the sun to ruin their ghostly
white tan?
- A hat--preferably with a cool logo or catchy phrase like "Gandalf
Routers," "Netscape," "Microsoft [with "sucks" scrawled below it
in permanent marker]", "I [heart] [insert government institution:
Cops, Feds, etc]"...you get the idea
- Note book, palmtop, or laptop to take notes on during the speeches
- [Micro]casette recorder to record the speeches (or everyone
getting drunk in your room Saturday night, not knowing what they
are saying, with no hope of remembering it...excellent blackmail
material!)
- Camcorder (see above...<>)
- Digital camera--for all of the above reasons PLUS you can
instantly upload the images through the T1 onto the net
- Fake ID for all of you under 18/21
- Fake ID for everyone else, if you're planning something illegal
- Your best jokes (Nooooo! Not the superman joke! Not the pink
joke)
- Your best hacking stories...these are all about something "your
friend" did, aren't they? You wouldn't admit to doing anything
illegal, now, would you?
- Someone else's--oops, I mean "your" credit card numbers
Fun
- Your drug(s) of choice -- From caffeine to pot to speed to acid
- Zippo and extra fuel. And while you're at it, put an extra flint
(assuming you can find one in the back of your junk drawer) in
the bottom. You always run out at just the wrong time.
- Extra smokez (Splurge: get some cigars or cloves for the weekend)
- Leather
- Handcuffs and chains, nipple clamps, etc.
- Saran wrap, duct tape, electrical tape, gaffer's tape
- Candles (the drippy kind)
- Incense
- Oils
- Your copy of "The Pocket Kama Sutra" (ISBN 0-7894-0437-0)
- That corn starch and water "slime" that Light Ray (I believe) and
others believed to be the ultimate thing, several DefCon's back.
Tech
- Laptop w/ Ethernet card
- Extra laptop battery
- A zip drive with a stack of disks containing all your soooper
k-rad haxing utilities and g-files
- 10bt/10b2 cabling
- A small hub
- You did remember to put a packet sniffer on your zip disk, right?
Just checking.
- Every power cord you could possibly need
- A serial cable with a plethora of adapters so you can get each
end to be male/female, 9pin/25pin, null-modem/straight
- Cable to connect the above mentioned digital camera to the laptop
- Scanner (modded, of course)
- Frequency counter (I hear the "Scout" is pretty good)
- HAM radio. Any band, any frequency. You didn't modify it to
transmit on arbitrary frequencies, did you? Naughty monkey!
- An assortment of tuned antennas
- That zip disk has the FCC frequency allocations on it, right?
- Your uber-elite organizer (the DOS based HP palmtops are quite
cool) to collect handles and email addresses from people
- High energy weapons ("Is that an unlicensed nuclear accelerator
on your back?" "No, it's just a HERF gun." "Oh.")
- Laser pointer (don't get kicked out of the hotel again, youz
doodz)
- Your "white courtesy phone" that you stole from the Monte Carlo
last year
- A microbroadcasting station with plenty of tuneage
- Your lock picks or lock picking gun
- A pocket-sized tool kit containing a modular screwdriver and
plenty of attachments (flathead, philips, torx, hex, etc)
- A pocket knife, pliers and wire cutters--or alternatively a
Leatherman's tool
- Hell, while you're at it: why not some bring bolt cutters, a
sledge hammer, and a hack saw?
- Telephone handset with alligator clips. Or, if you're uber-
31337, you have a lineman's butt set (with the serial number
and telco logo filed off)
- Bubble gum or epoxy putty--anything maleable and hardens.
This is good for fixing hoses under the hood of your car.
It's also useful to jam mechanical sensors (What would happen
if the microwave always though it's door was open? Or if the
elevator always thought there was someone blocking the path
of the door? Wouldn't hotel security be pissed if they
couldn't get into their security room because someone jammed
a toothpick into the keyhole with krazy glue?)
- An alabi
- Spam
- Multimeter
- Cordless electric soldering iron
- Parts box
MY PGP KEY:------------------------------------------------------------------
-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
Version: 2.6.1
mQCNAy6v5H8AAAEEAJ7xUzvdRFMtJW3CLRs2yXL0BC9dBiB6+hAPgBVqSWbHWVIT
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tCZUaGUgRGFyayBUYW5nZW50IDxkdGFuZ2VudEBkZWZjb24ub3JnPg==
=ngNC
-----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
From declan at well.com Tue Jul 1 10:33:42 1997
From: declan at well.com (Declan McCullagh)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 01:33:42 +0800
Subject: DEF CON V Convention Announcement #1.19 (06.30.97)
Message-ID:
[I'm planning to show up Friday morning. Anyone else going? --Declan]
*******
READ & DISTRIBUTE & READ & DISTRIBUTE & READ & DISTRIBUTE & READ & DISTRIB
DEF CON V Convention Announcement #1.19 (06.30.97)
July 11-13th @ the Aladdin Hotel and Casino in Las Vegas
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READ & DISTRIBUTE & READ & DISTRIBUTE & READ & DISTRIBUTE & READ & DISTRIB
The only convention with free beer!
IN SHORT:--------------------------------------------------------------------
WHAT: Speakers and partying in Vegas for all hackers
WHEN: July 11th - 13th
WHERE: Las Vegas, Nevada @ the Aladdin Hotel and Casino
COSTS: $30 in advance, $40 at the door
MORE INFO: http://www.defcon.org or email info at defcon.org
IN LONG:---------------------------------------------------------------------
It's time to brave Las Vegas again for DEF CON! This is an initial
announcement and invitation to DEF CON V, a convention for the "underground"
elements of the computer culture. We try to target the (Fill in your
favorite word here): Hackers, Phreaks, Hammies, Virii Coders, Programmers,
Crackers, Cyberpunk Wannabees, Civil Liberties Groups, CypherPunks,
Futurists, Artists, Criminally Insane, Hearing Impaired. It seems that
books about the culture are becoming more popular, so of course reporters
are also welcome. You won't be hurt. I promise. Just bring cash for
drinks.
So you heard about DEF CON IV, and want to hit part V? You heard about the
parties, the info discussed, the bizarre atmosphere of Las Vegas and want to
check it out in person? You want to do weird shit _away_ from the hotel
where you can't get me in trouble? You have intimate knowledge of the SWIFT
network, and want to transfer millions of dollars to the Def Con account?
Then you're just the person to attend!
What DEF CON is known for is the open discussion of all ideas, the free
environment to make new contacts and the lack of ego. More people have made
great friends at DEF CON over the years than my brain can conceive of. DEF
CON is also known for letting the "Suits" (Government / Corporate) mix with
everyone and get an idea of what the scene is all about. The media makes an
appearance every year and we try to educate them as to what is really going
on. Basically it has turned into the place to be if you are at all
interested in the computer underground.
[Note]-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Now last year over 800 people showed up and threw my whole program for a
loop. I was thinking 500+ people, but when 800 showed up it got a little
crazy for the planning staff. This year I am planning for 1,000. This
way I will be able to accommodate everyone and have less logistical screw-
ups.
I would also like to apologize to everyone last year who had temporary
badges for half the convention, etc. I will do all that is possible for
maximum coolness, and minimum hassles. Anyway, enough of my shit, on with
the details.
[End Note]-------------------------------------------------------------------
SPEAKERS:--------------------------------------------------------------------
Over the years DEF CON has had many notable speakers. This year there will
be more of an emphasis on technical talks. There will be a separate smaller
room for break-out sessions of more specific topics. While the talks of the
past have been great, it always seems some tech people drop out and general
talks fill in. I will load it tech heavy so when people do drop out there
will still be plenty of meat left for the propeller heads.
There will be some speaking on Friday evening before Hacker Jeopardy, all
day Saturday and Sunday. About 20 people will speak, plus smaller tech
sessions. If you are interested in speaking or demonstrating something
please contact me.
Current speakers include:
[> Nhil - Windows NT (in)security. The challenge response system, NT 5.0
Kerb security services, man in the middle attacks on domain controllers.
This will be a more technical discussion of NT related security.
[> Koresh - Hacking Novell Netware.
[> Yobie - Emerging infrastructures made possible by Java. He will describe
and talk about Java as the foundation for a global, object-oriented
distributed network. New concepts and computing paradigms will discussed
as well as applications for both applications development or straight-out
hacking.
[> Mudge - System Administrator for L0pht Heavy Industries. He will present
a technical talk on something cool.
[> Clovis - From the Hacker Jeopardy winning team. He will discuss issues
with security and networked object systems, looking at some of the
recent security issues found with activeX and detail some of the
potentials and problems with network objects. Topics will include
development of objects, distributed objects, standards, ActiveX, corba,
and hacking objects.
[> Bruce Schneier - Author of Applied Cryptography and the Blowfish
algorithm - Why cryptography is harder than it looks.
[> FBI Computer Crime Squad - They will make another appearance this year
only if I can bribe them with the audio from last years convention. Can
I do it in time?
[> Richard Thieme - "The Dynamics of Social Engineering: a cognitive map for
getting what you need to know, working in networks, and engaging in
espionage quietly; the uses of paranoia, imagination, and grandiosity
to build the Big Picture.
[> Wrangler - Packet Sniffing: He will define the idea, explain everything
from 802.2 frames down to the TCP datagram, and explain the mechanisms
(NIT, bpf) that different platforms provide to allow the hack.
Wrangler has been programming since seven column paper tape. He is a
loner with the social skills of a California Condor. He has never been
a member of LOD, MOD, or any other group. He has written no books, is
not currently employed, and refuses to discuss what he refers to as "that
credit card provider thing back when I used to do mainframe shit." His
current projects include looking for his next Fortune 100 contract and
writing the DEFCON V virus.
[> Seven - What the feds think of us.
[> Richard K. - Electronic countermeasures, counter espionage, risk
management. Should include a demonstration of electronic
countermeasures equipment as well as a talk on what works, what doesn't,
and the industry.
[> Tom Farley the Publisher of the "Private Line" journal, and Ken
Kumasawa of TeleDesign Management - Toll Fraud in the 90s: Two
perspectives. An overview of phreaking from a hackers point of view and
an industry/security consultants point.
[> Michael Quattrocchi - The future of digital cash and a presentation about
the modernization and state of register-level debit cards; in effect
currently throughout Canada.
[> The Deth Vegetable - "The Cult of the Dead Cow embarks on a new era of
Global Domination for the 21st Century three years early -- if you're
not at Defcon this year, you won't be down with the master plan.
Important announcements and startling new developments that will affect
the entire history of the Computer Underground as you know it."
[> Ira Winkler - Real life case studies of successful and unsuccessful
corporate espionage.
[> Sameer Parekh - c2.net - Why cryptography is harder than it looks, part
two. A look at implementation and production problems facing people and
companies wishing to develope and distribute strong encryption.
[> Carolyn P. Meinel - Moderator of the Happy Hacker Digest and mailing
lists. She will preside over a seperate Happy Hacker discussion
pannel that will cover the topics of wether or not "newbies" should have
information handed to them, or should they learn for themselves?
[> Dan Veeneman - Low Earth Orbit satellites are nearing the launch stage,
and this talk will cover the different systems that are planned and some
of the services they'll offer. A bit on GPS that wasn't covered last
year as well as the ever popular question and answer section.
[> Hobbit - CIFS is a load of CACA - Random SMB CIFS stuff in Microsfot
products.
[> Cyber - An overview and explanation of available crypto-tools. What
tools and programs do what, when to use them and on what platforms.
From someone who has spent lots of time playing around with the
currently available set of applications.
[> Keith - Has some experience writing firmware for embedded
microcontroller applications, and is giving a technical talk on
applications of microcontrollers in the h/p community.
[> James Jorasch - Hacking Vegas - How to games the gamers. From someone
who used to deal with hotel casino security. What really goes on?
SCHEDULE:--------------------------------------------------------------------
FRIDAY: Network Setup, Sign in, Informal PGP Keysigning at the "PGP table",
Lots of Partying. Capture the Flag Contest Starts at 16:00
On Friday there will be the demonstrations of the Radio Burst Cannon, a
"real" rail gun, and an omni-directional cell phone jammer. Times to be
announced.
10:00 - Doors open, sign in starts
10:00 - Movies start in main conference room
16:00 - Capture the Flag II starts
15:30 - Round up and head off for demonstrations of HERF, and
rail gun madness. Nothing may happen, then again..
23:30 - 23:00 James Jorasch - "Hacking Vegas" how to beat the system in
Vegas by someone who knows it inside and out.
23:00 - 03:00 Hacker Jeopardy Starts.
SATURDAY:
10:00 - 10:50 Richard Thieme - The Dynamics of Social Engineering.
11:00 - 11:50 Yobie - Emerging infrastructures made possible by Java.
12:00 - 12:50 Clovis - issues with security and networked object systems.
13:00 - 13:50 FBI Computer Crime Squad -
14:00 - 14:50 Deth Veggie - Global Domination, cDc style.
15:00 - 15:50 Seven - What the feds think of us.
16:00 - 16:50 Richard K. -
17:00 - 17:50 Tom Farley and Ken K. - Toll Fraud in the 90s: Two
perspectives.
Saturday Breakout Tech Sessions:
Koresh - Novell issues.
Mudge - Secure Coding.
Hobbit - Why CIFS is CACA.
Nihil - NT security issues.
Wrangler - Packet Sniffing.
Keith - firmware for embedded microcontroller applications.
24:00 (Midnight) Final rounds of Hacker Jeopardy.
SUNDAY:
10:00 - 10:50 Ira Winkler - Industrial Espionage.
11:00 - 11:50 Sameer - Why cryptography is harder than it looks, part two.
12:00 - 12:50 Cyber - An overview and explanation of available crypto-tools.
13:00 - 13:50 Carolyn Meinel - Happy Hacker Panel.
14:00 - 14:50 Michael Q. - The future of digital cash.
15:00 - 15:50 Dan Veeneman - Low Earth Orbit satellites.
Sunday Breakout Tech Sessions:
Happy Hacker track
Panel: "The Newbie Experiments"
Moderator is Carolyn Meinel, author of the Guides to (mostly) Harmless
Hacking series. Other panel members are:
- Matt Hinze, editor of the Happy Hacker Digest.
- Bronc Buster, who runs a Web forum, IRC server and the New Buckaroos Web
site for his fast-growing band of newbies.
- Mark Biernacki of Shellonly.com will talk about this new ISP which is
designed to make it easy for newbies to learn to hack. Just say "Telnet
port 22!"
- Jericho, who will hold forth on "Let the newbies fend for themselves."
We will allow each panel member to open with a brief presentation of his or
her work, followed by debate first among panel members, followed by Q&A from
the audience. We expect some intense debate:-)
Then if the Aladdin hotel hasn't yet been demolished yet by riots, we will
continue with a series of individual presentations:
- Jon McClintock, editor of Happy-SAD (Systems Administrator Digest) will
demonstrate how to install Linux.
- Bronc Buster will hold forth on the Windows 95 denial of service programs
his Web site offers.
- Carolyn Meinel will demonstrate how to read email headers, create, and
decipher forged email.
Breakout Tech Sessions:
16:00 Awards for Capture the Flag
End of it all, cleanup, etc. See you all next year!
EVENTS:----------------------------------------------------------------------
[> HACKER JEOPARDY:
Winn is back with Hacker Jeopardy!! The third year in the running!
Can the all-powerful Strat and his crypto-minion Erik, whose force
cannot be contained, be defeated?! Will the powers that be allow
Strat-Meister to dominate this beloved event for the third year in
a row?! Can Erik continue to pimp-slap the audience into submission
with a spoon in his mouth?!? Only Skill, Time, and booze will tell
the tail!
The Holy Cow will help supply the beer, you supply the answers.
The first round starts at 12 midnight o'clock on Friday and lasts
until it is done. The second and secret rounds will happen Saturday
at midnight.
6 teams will be picked at random and compete for the final round.
There can be only one! Strat's Team, the winners from last year
will defend if all the members can be found.
[> FREE BEER!
Holy Cow will provide free beer tickets! If you are over 21 prepare
to consume "hacker" beers. Actually it's whatever beer they have on
tap, but it's the best beer in Las Vegas. Follow Las Vegas Blvd. up
until you see the florescent cow with the big sunglasses. All taxi
drivers know of this Mecca. Over 1,000 free beers in all!
[> BLACK AND WHITE BALL:
We've talked it over, and the verdict is in. For the last two years
at DEF CON there has been a sort of unspoken Saturday night dress up
event. People have worn everything from party dresses and Tuxedoes
to AJ's ultra pimp Swank outfit with tiger print kilt. This year it
is official. Wear your cool shit Saturday night, be it gothic or PVC
vinyl or Yakuza looking black MIBs. No prizes, just your chance to
be the uber-bustah pimp.
[> THE TCP/IP DRINKING GAME:
If you don't know the rules, you'll figure 'em out.
[> CAPTURE THE FLAG:
ALL NEW, ALL IMPROVED, MORE CONFRONTATIONAL,
1997 ILLUMINATI INVITATIONAL,
CAPTURE THE FLAG, HACKER STYLE.
The goal is to take over everybody else's server while protecting your
own. To cut down on lag time and federal offences we're providing a
playing field of 5 flag-machine networks connected by a big router in
the middle.
The rules:
1) No taking the network down for more than 60 seconds.
2) No taking any flag machine (including your own) down for more than
3 minutes.
3) In order to be counted in the game, a team's flag machine must
- be directly connected to the network;
- have a text file flag on the machine readable by at least 2
accounts,
- keep at least 3 *normal* services running in a way that a
client could actually get their work done using them.
- run a web server if technically possible.
4) No goonery/summoning of elder gods/Mickey Finns/physical
coercion... you get the idea. ( You had the idea, but we're
trying to prevent you from using it. )
The field of play :
Each network will have a "server" of some kind on it, called the flag
machine. At the start of the game, these servers will be stock
installations a lot like what you'd see on the average academic/secret
cabal/military/megacorp network. Each of these machines will have a
PGP private key, named root.flag, and a web server.
There will also be a machine to provide DNS, called the scoreboard.
Teams:
Teams can be one human or more. In order to be a team, you have
to generate 20 256bit PGP key pairs, have a DEFCON goon pgp-sign
them and put the public keys on the scoreboard webserver. We'll
generate a hundred key pairs in advance, so the first five teams can
just grab a floppy disk (if they're trusting).
To prove that you've hacked a flag machine, PGP - sign a message with
the root.flag from the hacked machine, then with one of your own.
Post the doubly-signed message on the scorekeeper web server, and
you've captured that flag (and invalidated the captured root.flag).
When you've captured a flag, decide between conquest and
condescension: either take over the server yourself, or hand it back
to its not-so-eleet owners. To conquer, put one of your PGP private
keys on the captured server to become the next root.flag. (Of
course, you have to properly secure the server to maintain your new
territory.)
To condescend, just wait until the original owners see their shame
spread across the scoreboard. (It would sure be a pity if
they had to put up a new key before they figured out how you got in
last time, wouldn't it?)
Two Ways to Win:
#1 EVIL EMPIRE: Whoever has the most servers responding with their
teams' private keys at the end wins.
#2 PIRATE: Fabulous prizes will also be given to whoever racks up the
highest total number of flags captured.
Rough game mechanics (why is everyone so untrusting?):
Once every 5 minutes or more, the scoreboard machine will post a
plaintext challenge. Every team that claims to own a server has to
PGP-sign that challenge with the private key registered for that
server and post the signed version on their machine. If a server
can't respond within 3 minutes, then nobody owns it, and it's fair
game to be taken back over by the goons.
Specific rules will be available in print at DefCon before the game
begins.
This was a message from The People
[> QUAKE COMPETITION:
http://www.ctive.com/ntech/defcon.htm
This year knightPhlight contacted me and wanted to organize a single
elimination Quake competition to find out who that badest ass 'mo 'fo
is. Check out the web site to get the rules, sign up, or to
donate a computer the greater good of destruction.
It is IMHO that Quake by id Software rules 3D action gaming. But who
rules Quake? We'll find out this July 11th-13th at the DefCon
Conference in Las Vegas. This isn't going to be a networked game
intent on quickly eliminating as many players as possible in a single
round. Rather, one-on-one games will be played to absolutely
determine who the best really is.
Of course, you already know your the best so why would you feel
obligated to prove it? Because we'll give the first place winner
$750. Now, being the wily person you are, I bet you would like to
know where I got the money for the prizes. It'll come from your
registration fee of $7.50. Any half wit can do the math and see the
10,000% return for the winner. But just for entering you'll be in a
drawing for really kewl stuff. If you don't think its kewl you can
just give us your email address and we'll be happy to send you a
couple hundred thousand messages explaining why the prizes are great.
[> NET CONNECTION AND TOPOLOGY:
DefCon 5 Network Plan (v.99)
Telecommunications
------------------
Media Type: T1 ESF/B8ZS (not D4/AMI)
Service Provider: Las Vegas Digital Internet
Telco: Sprint
Equipment needed Equipment on-hand
---------------- ----------------------------------------------
CSU/DSU Verilink AS2000's with NCC 2301 cards (JC)
Router Cisco 2501 (Lock)
Net Admin server (Lock )
10bT Hubs 16-port from Lock - need more to populate the room
10bT Cable (miles) Everybody bring their own - will need some extra
to link hubs
Network Services:
-----------------
Web Server
CU-reflector
RealAudio Server
IRC server?
This year we are pre-building many of the network boxes so the net
can go up first thing Friday. It looks like we will have a T1 line
and we will break it out to 10 BaseT hubs. If you want in on the
network bring along the appropriate cables and adapters.
More Net Madness! The T1 bandwidth will allow us to do the
following cool stuff:
- Have several color quickcams and a CU-SeeMe reflector site set
up so people not at the con can check out what's going on. During
the convention check out the DEF CON web site to get the location
of the reflector site. You should get and install the software
needed to view CU-SeeMe streams in advance!
- Have a RealAudio server set up to stream the speakers talks to
those who can not attend.
- Potentially play a competitive multi user game(s) over the net.
NOTE! If you wish to participate interactively with the convention
please e-mail me and we can coordinate something. It would be
great to get people from all over the world involved.
[> 5th ANNUAL SPOT THE FED CONTEST:
The ever popular paranoia builder. Who IS that person next to you?
"Like a paranoid version of pin the tail on the donkey, the
favorite sport at this gathering of computer hackers and phone
phreaks seems to be hunting down real and imagined telephone
security and Federal and local law enforcement authorities who the
attendees are certain are tracking their every move.. .. Of course,
they may be right."
- John Markhoff, NYT
Basically the contest goes like this: If you see some shady MIB
(Men in Black) earphone penny loafer sunglass wearing Clint Eastwood
to live and die in LA type lurking about, point him out. Just get
my attention and claim out loud you think you have spotted a fed.
The people around at the time will then (I bet) start to discuss the
possibility of whether or not a real fed has been spotted. Once
enough people have decided that a fed has been spotted, and the
Identified Fed (I.F.) has had a say, and informal vote takes place,
and if enough people think it's a true fed, or fed wanna-be, or
other nefarious style character, you win a "I spotted the fed!"
shirt, and the I.F. gets an "I am the fed!" shirt.
NOTE TO THE FEDS: This is all in good fun, and if you survive
unmolested and undetected, but would still secretly like an "I am
the fed!" shirt to wear around the office or when booting in doors,
please contact me when no one is looking and I will take your
order(s). Just think of all the looks of awe you'll generate at
work wearing this shirt while you file away all the paperwork
you'll have to produce over this convention. I won't turn in any
feds who contact me, they have to be spotted by others.
DOUBLE SECRET NOTE TO FEDS: This year I am printing up extra "I
am the Fed!" shirts, and will be trading them for coffee mugs,
shirts or baseball hats from your favorite TLA. If you want to
swap bring along some goodies and we can trade. Be stealth about
it if you don't want people to spot you. Agents from foreign
governments are welcome to trade too, but I gotta work on my mug
collection and this is the fastest way.
[> RAIL GUN DEMONSTRATION: (Friday)
On Friday afternoon there will be a demonstration of a hand held
rail gun. This garage project should be able to fire a graphite
washer very, very fast.
[> OMNIDIRECTIONAL CELL PHONE JAMMER DEMONSTRAITON: (Friday)
Another interesting creation to be tested on Friday in the desert.
Come along and watch you cell phone antenna explode with power!
See control channels crumble before you.
[> RADIO BURST CANNON DEMONSTRATION: (Friday)
While not quite a HERF gun, this should come close. The RBC should
be able to produce up to or less than one MegaWatt for up to or less
than one second. What will this do? Who knows! Come and find out.
Obviously the above demonstrations will take place away from the
local hospitals and casinos out in the desert someplace, so be
prepared.
HOTELS:----------------------------------------------------------------------
[> Book your room NOW!!! We have a block of rooms, but it is first come,
[> first served. Rooms get released about one month before the convention.
[> Book by June 9th or risk it. The room rates are quite cool this year.
PRIMARY HOTEL: The Aladdin Hotel and Casino
3667 Las Vegas Blvd. South, Las Vegas, Nevada
Built in 1966 it is one of the oldest hotels in Las Vegas that
hasn't been blown up to make room for newer ones. It is quite nice
and has Tennis courts, two swimming pools, Chinese, Vietnamese and
Korean. A Seafood and steakhouse, Joe's Diner and a 24 hour coffee
shop too. It's located next to the MGM Theme park on the strip.
PHONE: 1-800-634-3424, reference the "DC Communications conference"
for reservations. 702-736-0222
RATES: Single & Double rooms are $65 in the Garden section, $85 for
the Tower. Suites are $250 to $350. All costs are plus 8% room tax.
Rollaway beds are available for an additional $15 a night.
STUFF IN VEGAS:--------------------------------------------------------------
URLs
Listings of other hotels in Las Vegas, their numbers, WWW pages, etc.
http://www.intermind.net/im/hotel.html
http://vegasdaily.com/HotelCasinos/HotelAndCasinos/CasinoList.html
VENDORS / SPONSORS / RESEARCH:-----------------------------------------------
If you are interested in selling something (shirts, books,
computers, whatever) and want to get a table contact me for costs.
If you have some pet research and you want to have the participants
fill out anonymous questioners please contact me for the best way
to do this.
If you want to sponsor any event or part of DEF CON V in return for
favorable mentions and media manipulation please contact me. For
example in the past Secure Computing has sponsored a firewall
hacking contest.
MORE INFO:-------------------------------------------------------------------
[> DEF CON Voice Bridge (801) 855-3326
This is a multi-line voice bbs, VMB and voice conference system.
There are 5 or so conference areas, with up to eight people on each
one. Anyone can create a free VMB, and there are different voice
bbs sections for separate topics. This is a good neutral meeting
place to hook up with others.
The Voice bridge will be changing numbers soon, but the old number
will refer you to the new location. The new spot won't suffer from
"Phantom" bridges!
[> MAILING LIST
send emial to majordomo at merde.dis.org and in the body of the message
include the following on a separate line each.
subscribe dc-stuff
dc-announce is used for convention updates and major announcements,
dc-stuff is related to general conversation, planning rides and
rooms, etc.
[> WWW Site http://www.defcon.org/
Convention updates and archives from previous conventions are housed
here. Past speakers, topics, and stuff for sale. Also a growing
section of links to other places of interest and current events.
[> The Third Annual California Car Caravan to DEF CON!
http://www.netninja.com/caravan
There are also some resources (links to other web sites and text
files) generally related to DefCon--not specifically the California
Caravan. These resources are available at:
http://www.netninja.com/caravan/resources.html
[> The DEF CON V Car ride sharing page: Use this site to arrange ride
sharing to the convention from all over North America. If you can
spare a seat for someone, or need to leech a ride go to the ride
sharing page set up by Squeaky.
http://garbage.bridge.net/~defcon/defcon.html
[> EMAIL dtangent at defcon.org
Send all email questions / comments to dtangent at defcon.org. It has
been said that my email is monitored by various people. If you want
to say something private, please do so with my pgp key (At the
bottom of this announcement) I usually respond to everything, if
not I'm swamped or had a system problem.
[> GIVE ME MONEY! SNAIL MAIL PRE-REGISTRATION
Send all written materials, pre-registrations, etc. to:
DEF CON, 2709 E. Madison, Seattle WA, 98112
If you are pre-registering for $30 please make payable to DEF CON
and include a name to which you want the registration to apply.
I don't respond to registrations unless you request.
DO YOU WANT TO HELP?---------------------------------------------------------
Here is what you can do if you want to help out or participate in
some way:
Donate stuff for the continuous giveaways and the various contests.
Got extra ancient stuff, or new cool stuff you don't use anymore?
Donate it to a good cause! One person was very happy over winning
an osborne "portable" computer.
ORGANIZE sharing a room or rides with other people in your area.
Join the mailing list and let people know you have floor space or
some extra seats in your car. Hey, what's the worst that can
happen besides a trashed hotel room or a car-jacking?
CREATE questions for hacker jeopardy (you know how the game is
played) and email them to winn at infowar.com. No one helped out last
year, so this year let's try. Everything from "Famous narks" to
"unix bugs" is fair game.
BRING a machine with a 10bt interface card, and get on the local
network, trade pgp signatures, etc.
FINAL CHECK LIST OF STUFF TO BRING:------------------------------------------
From: Enigma
Here is a list of items to bring to DefCon. These are only
suggestions. Your mileage may vary. :)
Items to bring to DefCon
~~~~~ ~~ ~~~~~ ~~ ~~~~~~
Clothing
- Comfortable shirts and pants/shorts
- Socks, underwear, etc
- Bathing suit
- Toiletries (deodorant, toothbrush, comb, hair spray,..., giant
tub of hair grease, Oxy pads, etc)
- An extra towel (don't leave home without it. Anyway, doesn't
it always seem that you run out of clean towels in the
bathroom?)
- Something cool, hip, pimp-o-matic, or ninja-riffic to wear
Saturday night at the Black and White Ball
You can skip the deodorant and extra clothing if all you are going
to do is play "Magic: The Gathering" and "Quake." Everyone else
does.
Stuph
- Your shades. Vegas is hot. The sun is bright. 'Nuff said.
(If you wear eye glasses, I hear the clip-on, flip-up sunglasses
are quite the fashion statement)
- Sunscreen of at least SPF 100. After spending hundreds of hours
in front of the monitor, who needs the sun to ruin their ghostly
white tan?
- A hat--preferably with a cool logo or catchy phrase like "Gandalf
Routers," "Netscape," "Microsoft [with "sucks" scrawled below it
in permanent marker]", "I [heart] [insert government institution:
Cops, Feds, etc]"...you get the idea
- Note book, palmtop, or laptop to take notes on during the speeches
- [Micro]casette recorder to record the speeches (or everyone
getting drunk in your room Saturday night, not knowing what they
are saying, with no hope of remembering it...excellent blackmail
material!)
- Camcorder (see above...<>)
- Digital camera--for all of the above reasons PLUS you can
instantly upload the images through the T1 onto the net
- Fake ID for all of you under 18/21
- Fake ID for everyone else, if you're planning something illegal
- Your best jokes (Nooooo! Not the superman joke! Not the pink
joke)
- Your best hacking stories...these are all about something "your
friend" did, aren't they? You wouldn't admit to doing anything
illegal, now, would you?
- Someone else's--oops, I mean "your" credit card numbers
Fun
- Your drug(s) of choice -- From caffeine to pot to speed to acid
- Zippo and extra fuel. And while you're at it, put an extra flint
(assuming you can find one in the back of your junk drawer) in
the bottom. You always run out at just the wrong time.
- Extra smokez (Splurge: get some cigars or cloves for the weekend)
- Leather
- Handcuffs and chains, nipple clamps, etc.
- Saran wrap, duct tape, electrical tape, gaffer's tape
- Candles (the drippy kind)
- Incense
- Oils
- Your copy of "The Pocket Kama Sutra" (ISBN 0-7894-0437-0)
- That corn starch and water "slime" that Light Ray (I believe) and
others believed to be the ultimate thing, several DefCon's back.
Tech
- Laptop w/ Ethernet card
- Extra laptop battery
- A zip drive with a stack of disks containing all your soooper
k-rad haxing utilities and g-files
- 10bt/10b2 cabling
- A small hub
- You did remember to put a packet sniffer on your zip disk, right?
Just checking.
- Every power cord you could possibly need
- A serial cable with a plethora of adapters so you can get each
end to be male/female, 9pin/25pin, null-modem/straight
- Cable to connect the above mentioned digital camera to the laptop
- Scanner (modded, of course)
- Frequency counter (I hear the "Scout" is pretty good)
- HAM radio. Any band, any frequency. You didn't modify it to
transmit on arbitrary frequencies, did you? Naughty monkey!
- An assortment of tuned antennas
- That zip disk has the FCC frequency allocations on it, right?
- Your uber-elite organizer (the DOS based HP palmtops are quite
cool) to collect handles and email addresses from people
- High energy weapons ("Is that an unlicensed nuclear accelerator
on your back?" "No, it's just a HERF gun." "Oh.")
- Laser pointer (don't get kicked out of the hotel again, youz
doodz)
- Your "white courtesy phone" that you stole from the Monte Carlo
last year
- A microbroadcasting station with plenty of tuneage
- Your lock picks or lock picking gun
- A pocket-sized tool kit containing a modular screwdriver and
plenty of attachments (flathead, philips, torx, hex, etc)
- A pocket knife, pliers and wire cutters--or alternatively a
Leatherman's tool
- Hell, while you're at it: why not some bring bolt cutters, a
sledge hammer, and a hack saw?
- Telephone handset with alligator clips. Or, if you're uber-
31337, you have a lineman's butt set (with the serial number
and telco logo filed off)
- Bubble gum or epoxy putty--anything maleable and hardens.
This is good for fixing hoses under the hood of your car.
It's also useful to jam mechanical sensors (What would happen
if the microwave always though it's door was open? Or if the
elevator always thought there was someone blocking the path
of the door? Wouldn't hotel security be pissed if they
couldn't get into their security room because someone jammed
a toothpick into the keyhole with krazy glue?)
- An alabi
- Spam
- Multimeter
- Cordless electric soldering iron
- Parts box
MY PGP KEY:------------------------------------------------------------------
-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
Version: 2.6.1
mQCNAy6v5H8AAAEEAJ7xUzvdRFMtJW3CLRs2yXL0BC9dBiB6+hAPgBVqSWbHWVIT
/5A38LPA4zqeGnGpmZjGev6rPeFEGxDfoV68voLOonRPcea9d/ow0Aq2V5I0nUrl
LKU7gi3TgEXvhUmk04hjr8Wpr92cTEx4cIlvAeyGkoirb+cihstEqldGqClNAAUR
tCZUaGUgRGFyayBUYW5nZW50IDxkdGFuZ2VudEBkZWZjb24ub3JnPg==
=ngNC
-----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
From usura at replay.com Tue Jul 1 10:47:22 1997
From: usura at replay.com (Alex de Joode)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 01:47:22 +0800
Subject: Dr. Dobbs Cryptography and Security CD-ROM
Message-ID: <199707011728.TAA02315@basement.replay.com>
Peter Gutmann sez:
[..]
: What makes this case especially awkward is the fact that the CDROM can't
: legally be sold outside the US, which means the only way the rest of the world
: can get it is through illegal copies. Given the immense usefulness of
: something like this, I'd say it's only a matter of time before bootleg copies
: start appearing outside the US, but because of the USG's position we can't pay
: for it even if we want to (DDJ wouldn't look too good if they accepted payment
: for what they knew was illegally exported crypto). Perhaps a donation of the
: same amount to charity would serve as some equivalent to payment...
It would be nice to see a Dr. Dobbs CD at the HIP ...
--
-aj-
From frissell at panix.com Tue Jul 1 10:52:23 1997
From: frissell at panix.com (Duncan Frissell)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 01:52:23 +0800
Subject: Marc Andreessen on encryption and CDA
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970701084404.006d101c@best.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19970701133757.035d5510@panix.com>
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
At 08:49 AM 7/1/97 -0700, geeman at best.com wrote:
>I suppose that's why US displays the greatest income disparity between rich
>and poor of
>any of the industrialized nations?
We don't know if this is true because no statistical series captures all
"wealth." The underground economy here is supposedly 15% but higher in much
of Europe. Also no country includes public benefits in income calculations
although they are income and the higher US medical costs substantially
increase the total income of those receiving Medicaid. Those comparisons are
suspect because too much income is excluded from the calcs.
>Why some 10 or 20 billionaires
>collectively own more
>wealth than some 20% of the world's population? Or were you being sarcastic?
They don't. They own more "securities." If you total the discounted
(present) value of the future income stream of 20% of the earth's population
(adjusting for the probable massive income increases of the next 20 years of
extreme boom times), and you count the value of personal property it comes to
more than the current wealth of the top billionaires who after all are
apparently worth less than a $trillion or two collectively.
But I don't know what this all has to do with encryption policy, however.
DCF
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBM7lAc4VO4r4sgSPhAQEkSQP/Rs+XzPrzUQptgBWK+LLb+vmAMPcaBHWE
Ww1PsYGqwo4W0Mlse0ynCGZfZdiIx+tlDbWbqYtvisNqeIYK8Qcn8K7b63ytZ1aN
OPM/DshwQ0bpgQMoTXpMwGnZmB9e4/LGriZXMSmk+fkZvO2flmVuUMj+Vao+Bs+N
xLZKAHYvXWw=
=F09z
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
From jya at pipeline.com Tue Jul 1 11:19:23 1997
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 02:19:23 +0800
Subject: The Walsh Report
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970701174406.0067b530@pop.pipeline.com>
Thanks to Anonymous (V) we offer the full Walsh report for the
Australian government on encryption policy which critiques the
validity of key escrow, as described in the news report posted by
John Gilmore yesterday. It's a big one, 280K so we offer three
versions:
1. Full report:
http://jya.com/walsh-all.htm (280K)
2. Full report Zipped:
http://jya.com/walsh-all.zip (93K)
3. Separate files for TOC and foreword, 6 chapters and annex:
http://jya.com/walsh-rep.htm
From ericm at lne.com Tue Jul 1 11:47:44 1997
From: ericm at lne.com (Eric Murray)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 02:47:44 +0800
Subject: NRA and National Online Records Check bullshit
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID: <199707011833.LAA16159@slack.lne.com>
Tim May writes:
[lots 'o stuff]
> But how does a lifetime, blanket ban on possession of firearms--i.e., a
> complete denial of Second Amendment rights--for any of tens of thousands of
> claimed "felonies" fit with this "compelling need" model? What's the
> compelling need for the state to deny Second Amendment rights for life to
> someone convicted of fraud or money laundering?
>
> The compelling need appears to be related to the general trend of disarming
> as many of the marks as possible, as soon as possible.
Close.
The complling need is for politicians to appear to be 'tough on crime'.
Being 'tough on crime' gets you reelected. Being 'soft on crime'
means you lose and have to find a real job.
Taking away the rights of convicted criminals who have served their
sentences makes you look tough on crime to the sheeple. The convicts
and wimpy human-rights organizations like the ACLU might complain, but
fuck 'em, they're liberals or criminals who get whatever we decide that
they deserve. Hell, if it'll get people to vote for you, throw 'em
in a mental hospital after they've served their terms, or publish
their names so citizens can drive them out of town.
It has little to do with disarming the population and lots to do with
the climate of fear that politicans and the media have whipped up.
With the downfall of communisim and the end of the cold war,
the DOJ/FBI/NSA/prison system has become the new Military Industrial
Complex. Need money to get elected? Vote for new prisons and
the powerful Prison Guards lobby will help you out. Need a new
pork-barrel project to help out your friends back in the district?
Vote for federal dollars for more cops.
Need to sell papers or TV ads? Tell people how bad crime is, everyone's
afraid of the criminals they see on 'Cops'. More fear. More cops.
More jails. We're marching towards the police state one jack-boot
at a time.
From kent at songbird.com Tue Jul 1 11:52:00 1997
From: kent at songbird.com (Kent Crispin)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 02:52:00 +0800
Subject: NRA and National Online Records Check bullshit
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID: <19970701113321.12042@bywater.songbird.com>
On Tue, Jul 01, 1997 at 09:47:45AM -0700, Tim May wrote:
> At 7:46 AM -0700 7/1/97, Paul Bradley wrote:
[...]
>
> >I can see the point of view which accepts serving of sentence as being
> >the end of punishment, and I do not accept a ban on firearms as being
> >implicit in the commision of a felony, but if a court explicitly states
> >that part of the punishment should be a X year or lifetime ban I can
> >accept that.
>
> Does this mean that you would "accept" a wording which took away a released
> convict's ability to speak freely, or to practice the religion of his
> choice?
>
> ("Upon completion of your 6-month sentence for public blasphemy, you must
> renounce Baalism and accept the religion so ordered by the court.")
>
> Why is this any different from taking away Second Amendment rights?
At one level, it is not. Punishment intrinsically involves
restriction on rights. Your right to free speech *is* restricted
while you are in jail. Your right to practice your religion can be
infringed -- you may not be able to have a prayer blanket, for
example. When you are convicted of a felony you step into a different
category as far as protection of rights are concerned.
On another level, they are *different* rights. So, in practice, the
rights to free speech and free religion are given greater weight.
> There is sometimes a loophole for taking away some particular right, or
> interfering with it in a special way, a la the language of "compelling
> needs." This is how the courts look at the putative conflict of rights, as
> in things like "the state has a compelling need to protect minors from
> these materials." Then there's the related language of "overbroad."
>
> But how does a lifetime, blanket ban on possession of firearms--i.e., a
> complete denial of Second Amendment rights--for any of tens of thousands of
> claimed "felonies" fit with this "compelling need" model? What's the
> compelling need for the state to deny Second Amendment rights for life to
> someone convicted of fraud or money laundering?
It's really more of an issue of practice, rather than principle.
There is no disputing that once you are caught up in the criminal
justice system your rights are constrained. The constitution
guarantees the accused certain rights, to be sure, and the convicted
rather less. But it is clear that the blanket provisions of the Bill
of Rights simply don't apply to criminals.
However, the issue is very complex. "The system" has a number of
discretionary points -- variable sentencing regiems, time off for good
behaviour, probation, parole -- all involve different levels of
constraints on rights, all constitutional.
In principle, once you accept that the state has the mandate to
punish criminals, you accept that criminals lose rights. Period.
As an anarchist you may say that the state has no such mandate. But
then you have the messy problem of what to do with common criminals,
and you end up with a state that you refuse to call a state.
--
Kent Crispin "No reason to get excited",
kent at songbird.com the thief he kindly spoke...
PGP fingerprint: B1 8B 72 ED 55 21 5E 44 61 F4 58 0F 72 10 65 55
http://songbird.com/kent/pgp_key.html
From nobody at secret.squirrel.owl.de Tue Jul 1 12:33:09 1997
From: nobody at secret.squirrel.owl.de (Secret Squirrel)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 03:33:09 +0800
Subject: NRA and National Online Records Check bullshit
Message-ID: <19970701175103.2307.qmail@squirrel.owl.de>
Citizen-Unit T.C. May wrote:
>(Somehow most people think it's OK that convicted felons lose their rights
>to vote and to have guns. (Once they're released, of course.) Do they think
>convicted felons no longer have religious freedom? Can no longer write as
>they wish? Jeesh.)
Citizen-Unit May is coming dangerously close to thought-crime in this
message. The politically correct phrasing is as follows:
"Since convicted felons lose their rights to vote and to have guns, surely
there is no reason why they shouldn't also lose their rights to free speech
and religious freedom. We must protect the children from such dangers."
This issue provides clear support for our long tradition of compromising
with the government on important issues - had we taken a "no compromise"
stand on felon's rights to vote and own guns then we would not now be able
to use that as justification for restricting further rights, just as prior
compromise on the First Amendment rights of "child pornographers" has given
the government a neccesary stepping-stone for restricting freedom of speech
of adult pornographers and other authorized enemies.
CompromiseMonger
From tzeruch at ceddec.com Tue Jul 1 13:40:08 1997
From: tzeruch at ceddec.com (tzeruch at ceddec.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 04:40:08 +0800
Subject: Hettinga's e$yllogism
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID: <97Jul1.161438edt.32259@brickwall.ceddec.com>
The difference is that there are no borders on the internet. I can't move
a physical storefront, nor an account at a local bank, but my virtual
website and e-receipts can be 12 timezones and one hemisphere distant in a
few minutes. Or even spread across 12 timezones and two hemispheres :).
Just starting with strong crypto in the sense of things like PGP, add
anonymous broadcast and M of N secret splitting and if the mind recovers
from the mathematical boggle, the societal implications will be there to
ponder. If money or ownership of property is data, it will be
uncontrollable in a few years, if that.
On Mon, 30 Jun 1997, Paul Bradley wrote:
>
> > juicy, but just as viable. And Nazi Germany is also proof that strong
> > crypto really doesn't do much good when the rubber hoses can be
> > deployed without hinderance.
>
> Strong crypto you must remember is only part of the solution. The reason
> for the lack of direct response from the Jews during the holocaust was
> the "legally elected" 3rd Reichs programme of disarming it`s citizens.
>
> Strong crypto along with other communication technologies provide a
> strong and secure framework within which armed resistance can take place,
> these same technologies also allow for infowarfare type attacks on the
> infrastructure of whole countries or jurisdictions.
>
> > In fact, your safety and wealth depends in large measure on the
> > protections provided by that government you scorn. In any healthy
> > tyranny the jackboots would have been on your throat long ago,
> > regardless of your little arsenal, and your money would be purchasing
> > toys for the rulers.
>
> Well, tax money already does purchase toys for the rulers and the
> jackboots are moving towards our throats slowly so no-one notices. Safety
> and wealth derive from free market economies and rights to self-defence,
> not from a government.
From dl at dev.null Tue Jul 1 13:40:18 1997
From: dl at dev.null (Dead Lucky)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 04:40:18 +0800
Subject: Has your privacy been invaded? Protected? Both?
Message-ID: <199707012007.OAA28328@wombat.sk.sympatico.ca>
geeman at best.com wrote:
> I have been fairly careful and very jealous of my privacy; and then my name
> and home address showed up on one of the name-search pages. I don't know if
> it's still there, and I don't remember the link. But then the Similac
> marketing Geniuses sent me something in the mail that even included the due
> date of my expected child!
And the predicted date of the death of your child is January 19,
2015, according to the Dead Lucky Assassination Bot statistics.
The good news is that there is only $1.48 bet on this eventuality,
so the chances are slim that anyone is going to go out of their way
to collect (unless you are such a bad father that your child turns
out to be a total asshole).
D. Lucky
From nobody at REPLAY.COM Tue Jul 1 14:38:29 1997
From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 05:38:29 +0800
Subject: NRA and National Online Records Check bullshit
Message-ID: <199707012111.XAA01109@basement.replay.com>
Kent Crispin wrote:
> However, the issue is very complex. "The system" has a number of
> discretionary points -- variable sentencing regiems, time off for good
> behaviour, probation, parole -- all involve different levels of
> constraints on rights, all constitutional.
No doubt the laws resulting in people going to jail for the
rest of their life for a "third felony" (i.e. - a $10.00 bad
check in Texas) are "constitutional."
After the (black, go figure...) person was given a life
sentence for a $10.00 bad check, someone quoted the standard
justification, "It's not a _perfect_ system, but its the
best one we've got." (Hint: It was not the defendant who
said this.)
The rapist/murderers that we hear about being released
because of a lack of prison space wave cheery good-byes to
their marihuana smoking and bad-check writing pals as they
drive away from the prison.
And the way this relates to encryption is...
...the rapist/murderers of the future might well be waving
goodby to the cryptographers, as well, since they rarely use
encryption, and thus might well have a shorter sentence than
their crypto-devil cellmate.
TruthMonger
From nobody at REPLAY.COM Tue Jul 1 15:49:44 1997
From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 06:49:44 +0800
Subject: Copyright / Re: Dr. Dobbs Cryptography and Security CD-ROM
Message-ID: <199707012155.XAA06734@basement.replay.com>
Paul Bradley wrote:
> I don`t believe in copyright in general, but I would be perfectly happy
> to pay a US cpunk to send me a copy of this CD-ROM, *BUT*, physically
> mailing a copy like this is more risky for the US Cpunk. I don`t believe
> in ripping people off, and rarely copy copyrighted material, but I don`t
> hold with copyright laws and see nothing wrong with this being posted.
Copyright is for the purpose of people with ideas being financially
rewarded in the same manner as those who manifest those ideas in
the physical sphere (via print, recordings, machines, etc).
As a recording musician I expected to get money for my recordings,
just as everyone else in the chain of business did in making my
music available to the end-user. (And just as a grocer who makes
food available to his customers expects you to leave something in
the till on your way out of the store.)
I have never had any problem with someone recording a copy of my
music from a purchased copy if they are a music lover with a thin
pocket, or can't readily purchase it. If someone with a $2000.00
stereo wants to enjoy the fruits of my labor without contributing
any money to my health and welfare, then I consider them to be just
another thief.
The bottom line with the Crypto CD-ROM is that we should each
make an effort to support it at the level we are capable of,
in the interest of promoting strong cryto.
Buy it, if at all possible. If you download a copy on the net
and can't afford $99.00, then send them $10.00, or $20.00, etc.
If you can't afford to send them a nickle, then do what you can
to promote their product. Provide pointers to their business,
tell people about their products, etc.
People who will give ten or twenty dollars to a charity when
someone shows up at their door might use "shareware" for years
without taking the time and trouble to send the creator some
cash. Bottom line--take the time to recompense the vendor/creator
at the level you are able.
Technology may well enable us to take the product and give
nothing in return to those who made it available, but doing so
will not further our own beliefs and aims to any extent.
If you just want to rip something off, go to the Whithouse,
rip off some silverware, and send it to Dr. Dobbs.
TruthMonger
From rwright at adnetsol.com Tue Jul 1 18:11:32 1997
From: rwright at adnetsol.com (Ross Wright)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 09:11:32 +0800
Subject: Clinton's Laissez-Faire Policy
Message-ID: <199707020051.RAA24644@adnetsol.adnetsol.com>
Tuesday July 1 6:28 PM EDT
Clinton Unveils 'Hands Off' Internet Strategy
WASHINGTON (Reuter) - Hailing the Internet as an engine for future
economic growth, President Clinton Tuesday unveiled a largely
laissez-faire policy to promote commerce in cyberspace unburdened by
new government taxes.
See More at:
http://www.yahoo.com/headlines/970701/politics/stories/internet_6.html
=-=-=-=-=-=-
Ross Wright
King Media: Bulk Sales of Software Media and Duplication Services
http://www.slip.net/~cdr/kingmedia
Voice: (408) 259-2795
From nobody at REPLAY.COM Tue Jul 1 18:11:33 1997
From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 09:11:33 +0800
Subject: C'punk elitists [was mailing list}
In-Reply-To: <199707011318.PAA01313@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID: <199707020023.CAA29587@basement.replay.com>
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Such egotistical assholes!
One of the events which would most benefit security, privacy, and freedom on
the Internet would be for the mass of AOL users to begin using it.
Don't I get sick of such elitist know-it-alls!
TruthMonger 26
At 03:18 PM 7/1/97 +0200, Anonymous wrote:
|When did it become acceptable to be so stupid??? How many systems-experts
do you know who use
|AOL frequently.
|
|OOh...I forgot about that new section, PGP For Dummies...(chuckle)
|
|C
|
|
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0
Charset: noconv
iQA/AwUBM7mdlIGXJpqxt6QJEQInKgCfV/VkoapnUDei8SIY/HSEegnMT0YAoOfy
DbCtdT0pwC8C7b8aofaW+X84
=vWQL
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
From tcmay at got.net Tue Jul 1 18:12:33 1997
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 09:12:33 +0800
Subject: Liberating the Bits
In-Reply-To: <199707012155.XAA06734@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID:
At 2:55 PM -0700 7/1/97, Anonymous wrote:
> I have never had any problem with someone recording a copy of my
>music from a purchased copy if they are a music lover with a thin
>pocket, or can't readily purchase it. If someone with a $2000.00
>stereo wants to enjoy the fruits of my labor without contributing
>any money to my health and welfare, then I consider them to be just
>another thief.
Well, my stereo system costs considerable more than $2000. And I copy CDs
whenever I can.
I have copied to DAT (Digital Audio Tape) several hundred CDs. And a friend
of mine has really gone overboard, copying more than 4000 CDs (rock, blues,
jazz, country, you name it) onto more than 1000 DATs.
Given that a new CD typically costs about $16 US, and a blank DAT tape
costs about $4 for a 3-hour tape, the savings are spectacular. (My friend
uses a lot of the 4-hour DATs, but I don't trust them. They jam in some
machines.)
We get these CDs by borrowing from friends (who haven't gotten into DATs
yet), and especially from libraries. My friend has library cards at more
than 6 library systems, covering about 20 actual library sites. Each has
thousands of CDs (though there is much duplication, and a lot of junk.)
And I now have a SCMS defeating DAT machine, a Tascam DA-P1, so I can
"mine" his collection of 4000+ CDs-on-DAT and make flawless digital copies.
(The copies from a CD are flawless with any dubbing that uses the digital
I/O, but DAT to DAT copies have been disabled on consumer-grade machines
with SCMS, the Serial Copy Management System. SCMS defeaters reset the SCMS
bits to allow any number of perfect copies.)
Technology liberates the bits.
--Tim May
There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws.
Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay at got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."
From tcmay at got.net Tue Jul 1 21:07:21 1997
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 12:07:21 +0800
Subject: Jeff's Side of the Story.
Message-ID: <199707020337.UAA17514@you.got.net>
There's been an ongoing discussion of the Huge Cojones remailer situation
on the related newsgroups.
This has a lot of relevance to our issues, and this is one of the more
illuminating articles.
--Tim
> From: toxic at hotwired.com (Jeff Burchell)
> Newsgroups:
alt.privacy.anon-server,alt.fan.steve-winter,alt.religion.scientology,alt.anonymous,misc.misc,alt.censorship,news.admin.censorship,alt.cypherpunks,comp.org.eff.talk,news.admin.net-abuse.misc
> Subject: Jeff's Side of the Story.
> Followup-To:
alt.privacy.anon-server,alt.fan.steve-winter,alt.religion.scientology,alt.anonymous,misc.misc,alt.censorship,news.admin.censorship,comp.org.eff.talk,news.admin.net-abuse.misc
> Date: 1 Jul 1997 20:02:22 GMT
> Organization: Content, Inc
...
>
> Anonymous (nobody at REPLAY.COM) wrote:
>
> : > Only Jeff knows the whole story.
>
> Actually, not even I know the whole story. If I truely knew who it was
> that was orchestrating this attack, it would have stopped, one way or
> another. The problem is, I don't know all the players (I have some
> suspicions, which I'll elaborate on further in a little bit) but I don't
> _really_ know who did it, and I really don't know why (other than a "I
> don't like remailers, I think I'll shut one down"). And I really don't
> know the background or what precipitated this.
>
> : > But I have to ask. Could this
> : > just be an" I'm sick of this shit, f**k it, I quit, who needs this
> : > aggravation, I'll just pull the plug and go have a beer" reaction
> : > to what really seems like a fairly small problem.
>
> It is not a small problem anymore when you're getting >200 complaint
> messages a day, plus 5-10 phone calls to your employer (and your
> employer's legal department). Fortunately, Wired is a very progressive
> company, and supported my efforts to provide anonymity, but our lawyers
> aren't paid to answer phone calls on my behalf. Running a remailer is
> one thing... getting harassed at work is an entirely different matter, and
> getting a THIRD PARTY harassed at work is yet another one.
>
> But yes, The ultimate "take this thing down" decision was one made
> because I was sick of this bullshit. But you know what? I volunteer
> my time, my computer equipment, and bandwidth that is given to me
> as part of my salary. I do (well did) all of this because I believe
> that anonymity is a right, and because I have the capabilities of
> helping to provide anonymity to the masses. When the remailer was
> self-sufficient (before the attacks started), it took maybe 10 minutes
> of my time a day, and minimal resources on my machine. Afterwards,
> even after I put in the auto-blocking feature (send a blank message
> to a particular address and get your address blocked) and the
> autoresponder on the remailer-admin account, I was still getting >100
> messages a day reporting abuse... almost all of it spam-bait related.
> I receive no benefit from running the remailer (I don't even use it
> myself), and when it becomes a fairly major hassle without any
> rewards, the decision is not a hard one to make.
>
> And frankly, I already have enough to do, and get enough mail on a
> daily basis (at last check it was hovering around 600 messages/day).
> As soon as the remailer started taking up a lot of my time, it became
> time to rethink why I was running it. The moment that the spam-baiter
> started alerting people who had been baited, and telling them to
> contact me, it became personal. And I don't have time to get into
> personal pissing-contests. Yes, I took the easy way out, but that
> was my choice to make.
>
> Anyone who doesn't run a remailer has very little right questioning my
> choice, because you have no idea what precipitated it. Most people
> reading this group have the capabilities of running a remailer (it only
> takes a POP account and a Windows machine to run the Winsock remailer),
> but very few of us actually do. Why is that? I've been running huge.
> cajones for just under 2 years, and it averaged just over 3000 messages
> a day, so my remailer was responsible for about 2 million anonymous
> messages in its lifetime. I think I've done my part (at least for now),
> it's time for someone else to do theirs. If we had 15 disposable remailers
> that operated for 2-3 months each before moving/going away, we'd have
> paths for millions more anonymous messages. And isn't that what we're
> really trying to provide?
>
> : The first was doing questionable things, like installing content-based
> : filtering in an attempt to placate the attacker. Giving in to the demands
>
> When I first put the filters in, I was entirely unaware of exactly what
> the hell was going on. It seemed that someone had a bone to pick with
> databasix, and was using the remailer to get databasix harassed by
> third parties. So, Burnore's complaint seemed reasonable at the time, and
> I tried to come up with a way to block spam-bait abuse, without blocking
> anything else (like a reply to burnore in Usenet).
>
> See, if someone was doing to me what they appeared to be doing to Burnore,
> I would be pissed. I figured placating him would be the best thing to
> do. In hindsight, I was wrong, but at the time, it seemed like the correct
> decision. (Also at the same time, the SPA threatened Wired with a
> lawsuit because of The MailMasher, so things were a little tense between
> me and the legal department already, I didn't need to make them any worse.)
>
> The final content-based-filter (there was an interim one) looked for the
> following things:
>
> 1. Any address at databasix (Yes, at the request of Burnore)
> 2. Any address from my destination block list
> 3. More than 5 addresses in a row, one line each, without other content
> in-between.
> 4. Patterns of particular Usenet groups.
> 5. Particular subject lines.
>
> If any THREE of these items were spotted, the message got thrown into a
> reject bin. I periodically examined the reject bin, and can personally
> attest that it didn't block ANYTHING that it wasn't intended to. (The
> test posts reeked of spam-bait to me, and I believe were correctly
> blocked)
>
> FWIW, the filters were removed about a week ago.
>
> Because the filters were looking for a specific form of ABUSE, and not
> just doing basic pattern matches, I don't consider them to be "content
> filters". I would think that just about anyone would agree that
> posting lists of email addresses to mlm newsgroups would qualify
> as abuse, and _should_ be blocked. Blocking of this nature does NOT
> restrict free speech (or at least that is not the intentions of it), and
> it would keep the remailer out of lawsuit territory.
>
> See, the big problem with lawsuits is not the fact that _I_ don't want
> to be sued. The problem is that anyone with half a brain can determine
> that Wired is somehow related to any remailer that I am running on their
> bandwidth. Wired has deeper pockets than Mr. Burchell, so they are a
> much better group to sue... and they are a lot more willing to give
> in to a threat than I am.
>
> : What I *MIGHT* have done was to respond as follows:
> :
> : Your legal demands are unacceptable. I'd rather close the remailer than
> : compromise its integrity to suit your whims. But understand this
-- unless
> : you withdraw your demands, I will not only close the remailer but
also make
> : damn sure all of its users know exactly who forced me to take this
action!
>
> I did respond in a fashion much like this, about a week before the attacks
> started coming. Mr. Burnore requested a copy of my (non-existant) logs.
> I told him to get me something in writing, signed by his lawyer that
> stipulated that the logs were confidential, and not to be revealed to
> anyone outside of the lawyer's office.
>
> I received a letter from Belinda Bryan. She is not registered with the
> State Bar of California, and is thus, not a California lawyer. I then
> ignored the request, and forwarded the correspondence to the State
> Attorney General's office (as impersonating a lawyer in CA is defined
> as fraud with extenuating circumstances). They have been working with
> me and the San Francisco DA's office. Look out DataBasix... I'm not done
> with you yet.
>
> : The second mistake I perceive is not fully disclosing the circumstances that
> : brought down Huge Cajones, and *NAMING NAMES*. That way, even if the
remailer
> : shuts down, other remailer operators will learn about the tactics employed
> : against it, know *WHO* made the demands, etc. IOW, when you get an innocent
> : sounding, polite complaint from xxxx at yyy.com alleging "abuse", here's the
> : scenario that's likely to follow ... (It's not too late to make that
> : disclosure, Jeff.)
>
> In fact, now is the time to. Making a disclosure like this while I
> was still running the remailer would have probably been a bad move.
> Now that the remailer is closed, I'll name the names that I've got.
>
> Beware... all of this is speculation, because huge.cajones was an
> anonymous service, not even I can say with any authority that any
> of the people named below had anything to do with the shutdown of
> huge.cajones (or The MailMasher). However, there are a number of
> coincidences of timing.
>
> I still don't know what the hell is going on with DataBasix, Wells Fargo
> and Gary Burnore, but I suspect that someone used huge.cajones to say
> something extremely unflattering about Burnore (from what I can tell,
> he had it coming). Burnore then decided that he would make things
> difficult for me. First, he wanted the user who had posted something
> "inflammatory" about him revealed. When I told him that I couldn't
> do that, he carried on about mail logs and identifying the host that
> a message came from (the usual). I didn't explain to him that my
> machine keeps logs, but not anything involving a *@cajones.com
> address. He then requested the logs, which I denied (and told him
> to get his lawyer to send a request...)
>
> I'll admit, after my second or third contact with Mr. Burnore, I
> no longer was particularly civil with the guy. He's a kook, and
> really didn't deserve my courtesy.
>
> Between the time he first contacted me, and the time I received the
> letter from Belinda Bryan, is when the baiting of databasix addresses
> began (slowly, with just a few posts). After a while, I received
> requests from the other members of DataBasix (including William McLatchie
> (sp) (aka wotan) who actually seems to be a remailer supporter (?)).
>
> It was at this point that I realized something was completely amiss.
> I asked McLatchie to please tell me the story of DataBasix, and he
> said that he was going to, but never did. Anyone who can tell me
> the story is invited to do so.
>
> As a side note (and just because I am naming names). Peter Hartly
> (hartley at hartley.on.ca) yesterday spam-baited me. Fortunately,
> I've got good filters in place.
>
> As another side note, I've seen nothing to make me believe that Belinda
> Bryan is even a real person. Anyone?
>
> : > Given the importance of what Jeff was doing, I hope that he
> : > did all that he could, before declaring defeat. If that is the case,
> : > I commend him for a job well done. If not, why?
>
> I can't claim to have done _everything_ that I could have done, but I
> did certainly make an effort. I'm not willing to go to court to defend
> a practice like spam-baiting (and given the current public-opinion situation
> and impending anti-UCE legislation, this would be a terrible test-case).
>
> I am not new to threats of lawsuit, even ones that come from legitimate
> lawyers. About 8 months previous, I was threatened repeatedly by the
> legal wing of the "Church" of Scientology. I answered with a letter
> from my lawyer that explained the policies of the remailer, and
> threatened a harrassment lawsuit if the "Church" contacted me again asking
> for information (that they now knew I didn't have) about a remailer user.
> They complied, and went away (and haven't been too difficult with
> other remailer operators lately).
>
> : Agreed. Otherwise, these "asshole(s)" are simply going to do it all over
> : again against another remailer, eventually taking them all down one at
a time.
> Except that right now, new remailers are springing up. If we could get
> three more online for every one shut down, it wouldn't much matter, would
> it? I may very well end up running a mailer again in the future, but if
> I do, it will probably be either a throwaway exit-man or a truely anonymous
> middleman (i.e. nobody will actually know who is running it). It also
> will probably be hosted outside of the United States (Floating in
> international waters with a sat feed would be nice).
>
> : It's time for them to stand up and say "Next time you come for one of us
> : he's
> : not going quietly as the others have. You'll have to face ALL of us
at once,
> : instead."
>
> Aah, you imagine much more solidarity among remailer operators than actually
> exists. It doesn't work that way. It would be nice if it did, but many of
> us are running remailers on borrowed bandwidth (or have other "situations"
> to be concerned about). Being the squeaky wheel is not always a good idea
> for many of the operators (most of whom try to keep a low profile).
>
> The reality is, for all the good they do, remailers are tools that can
> very easily be abused. And, as the internet gets more and more commonplace,
> the average Joe and Joesphine, who don't have the strict Cyber-Libertarian
> viewpoints that are shared by most of us old-timers, will start to wonder
> just why anyone would want to run a service that allows anyone to speak their
> mind without fear of reprisal. When you get people with more extreme
> viewpoints (the ones who have a really legitimate need for anonymity) posting
> all kinds of stuff to all kinds of places, it will get the attention of
> Middle-America, which will then bring it to the attention of legislators.
> Any time a legislator can say "This is a blow to Child Pornographers and
> others who hide behind anonymity to commit crimes without fear of reprisal"
> you can guarantee that the bill will pass.
>
> When that happens, we're in trouble. America is scared of computers, and
> remailers are thought to be havens for the big 3 (Terrorists, Organized
> Crime and Child Pornographers). Now that the spammers are involved
> (spammers possibly being hated more than the big 3), most users are
> exposed to anonymous remailers in negative ways (Imagine what you would
> think if the first time you heard about the existance of remailers, it
> was because someone had spam-baited you, and then told you about it).
>
> The right to anonymity in the US will be legislated away within 18 months,
> partially because of spam. I do hope there's a _good_ test case waiting,
> and someone willing to fight it to the end, but I have my doubts. Ultimately
> the remailer network will be forced to move offshore, the way Crypto
> development currently has.
>
> Don't like the News? Go out and make some of your own.
>
> -Jeff
>
> |o| |o|
> |o| Jeff Burchell toxic at wired.com |o|
> |o|- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -|o|
> |o| I am not speaking for anyone but myself. |o|
> |o| |o|
--
There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay at got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."
From nobody at secret.squirrel.owl.de Tue Jul 1 21:14:25 1997
From: nobody at secret.squirrel.owl.de (Secret Squirrel)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 12:14:25 +0800
Subject: Degaussing
Message-ID: <19970702021749.17094.qmail@squirrel.owl.de>
Could someone please point me to a FAQ or somesuch about degaussing
magnetic media? Thank you!
From nobody at REPLAY.COM Tue Jul 1 21:16:02 1997
From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 12:16:02 +0800
Subject: Netscape Exploit
Message-ID: <199707020350.FAA24898@basement.replay.com>
> >Here is a sample it isn't complete but you get the basic idea of what is
> >going on
> >Evil-DOT-COM Homepage
> >
> >
> >
CAN YOU HANDLE $50,000?
First, please accept my apology if this was sent to you in error!
You could possibly make at least $50,000 - In less than 90 days! Read the enclosed program ....THEN READ AGAIN....
The enclosed information is something I almost let slip through my fingers. Fortunately, sometime later I re-read everything and gave it serious thought and study to it. So glad I did! Here's my story!
My name is Christopher Erickson. Two years ago, the corporation I worked at for the past twelve years down-sized and my position was eliminated. After unproductive job interviews, I decided to open my own business. Over the past year, I incurred many unforeseen financial problems. I owed my family, friends, and creditors over $35,000. The economy was taking a toll on my business and I just couldn't seem to make ends meet. I had to refinance and borrow against my home to support my family and struggling business. I truly believe it was wrong for me to be in debt like this. AT THAT MOMENT something significant happened in my life and I am writing to share my experience in hopes that this will change your life FOREVER .... FINANCIALLY!!!!!!!
In mid-December, I received this program via email. Six months prior to receiving this I had been sending away for information on various business opportunities. All the programs I received, in my opinion, were not cost effective. They were either too difficult for me to comprehend or the initial investment was too much for me to risk to see if they worked or not. One claimed I'd make a million dollars in one year ..... it didn't tell me I'd have to write a book to make it.
But like I was saying, in December of '92 I received this program. I didn't send for it, or ask for it, they just got my name off a mailing list. THANK GOODNESS FOR THAT!!! After reading it several times, to make sure I was reading it correctly, I couldn't believe my eyes. Here was a MONEY-MAKING PHENOMENON. I could invest as much as I wanted to start, without putting me further in debt. After I got a pencil and paper and figured it out, I would at least get my money back. After determning that the program is LEGAL and NOT A CHAIN LETTER, I decided "WHY NOT".
Initially I sent out 10,000 emails. It cost me about $15.00 for my time on-line. The great thing about email is that I didn't need any money for printing to send out the program, only the cost to fulfill my orders. I am telling you like it is, I hope it doesn't turn you off, but I promised myself that I would not "rip-off" anyone, no matter how much money it cost me!
In less than one week, I was starting to receive orders for REPORT #1. By January 13th, I had received 26 orders for REPORT #1. When you read the GUARANTEE in the program, you will see that "YOU MUST RECEIVE 15 TO 20 ORDERS FOR REPORT #1 WITHIN TWO WEEKS. IF YOU DON'T, SEND OUT MORE PROGRAMS UNTIL YOU DO!". My first step in making $50,000 in 20 to 90 days was done. By January 30th, I had received 196 orders for REPORT #2. If you go back to the GUARANTEE, "YOU MUST RECEIVE 100 OR MORE ORDERS FOR REPORT #2 WITHIN TWO WEEKS, IF NOT, SEND OUT MORE PROGRAMS UNTIL YOU DO. ONCE YOU HAVE 100 ORDERS, THE REST IS EASY. RELAX, YOU WILL MAKE YOUR $50,000 GOAL".
Well, I had 196 orders for REPORT #2, 96 MORE THAN I NEEDED. So, I sat back and relaxed. By March 19th, of my emailing of 10,000, I received $58,000 with more coming in every day.
I paid off ALL my debts and bought a much needed new car. PLEASE take time to read the attached program, IT WILL CHANGE YOUR LIFE FOREVER! Remember, it won't work if you DON'T try it! This program DOES WORK, but you must follow it EXACTLY! Especially the rules of not trying to place your name in a different place. THAT DOESN'T WORK, you'll lose out on a lot of money! REPORT #2 explains this. Always follow the guarantee, 15 to 20 orders for REPORT #1, and 100 or more orders for REPORT #2 and you will make $50,000 or more in 20 to 90 days. I AM LIVING PROOF THAT IT WORKS!!!!!
If you choose not to participate in this program, I'm sorry. It really is a great opportunity with little cost or risk to you. If you choose to participate, follow the program and you will be on your way to financial security.
If you are a fellow business owner and you are in financial trouble like I was, or you want to start your own business, consider this a sign. I DID!
Sincerely,
Christopher Erickson
P.S. Do you have any idea what 11,700 $5 bills ($58,000) look like piled up on a kitchen table? IT'S AWESOME!
"THREW IT AWAY"
I had received this program before. I threw it away, but later wondered if I shouldn't have given it a try. Of course, I had no idea who to contact to get a copy, so I had to wait until I was emailed another copy of the program. Eleven months passed, then it came. I DIDN'T throw this one away. I made $41,000 on the first try".
Dawn W., Evansville, IN
"NO FREE LUNCH"
"My late father always told me, remember, Alan, there is no free lunch. You get out of life what you put into it". Through trial and error and a somewhat slow frustrating start, I finally figured it out. The program works very well, I just had to find the right target group to email it to. So far this year, I have made over $63,000 using this program. I know my dad would have been very proud of me.
Alan B., Philadelphia, PA
A PERSONAL NOTE FROM THE ORIGINATOR OF THIS PROGRAM
By the time you have read the enclosed information and looked over the enclosed program and reports, you should have concluded that such a program, and one that is legal, could not have been created by an amateur.
Let me tell you a little about by myself. I had a profitable business for ten years. Then in 1979 my business began falling off. I was doing the same things that were previously successful for me, but it wasn't working. Finally, I figured it out. It wasn't me, it was the economy. Inflation and recession had replaced the stable economy that had been with us since 1945. I don't have to tell you what happened to the unemployment rate .... because many of you know from first hand experience. There were more failures and bankruptcies than ever before.
The middle class was vanishing. Those who knew what they were doing invested wisely and moved up. Those who did not, including those who never had anything to save or invest, were moving down into the ranks of the poor. As the saying goes, "THE RICH GET RICHER AND THE POOR GET POORER". The traditional methods of making money will never allow you to "move up" or "get rich", inflation will see to that.
You have just received information that can give you financial freedom for the rest of your life, with "NO RISK" and "JUST A LITTLE BIT OF EFFORT". You can make more money in the next few months than you have ever imagine.
I should also point out that I will not see a penny of your money, nor anyone else who has provided a testimonial for this program. I have already made over FOUR MILLION DOLLARS! I have retired from the program after sending out over 16,000 programs. Now I have several offices which market this and several other programs here in the US and overseas. By the Spring, we wish to market the 'internet' by a partnership with AMERICA ON LINE.
Follow the program EXACTLY AS INSTRUCTED. Do not change it in any way. It works exceedingly well as it is now. Remember to email a copy of this exciting program to everyone that you can think of. One of the people you send this to may send out 50,000 .... and your name will be on every one of them! Remember though, the more you send out, the more potential customers you will reach.
So my friend, I have given you the ideas, information, materials and opportunity to become financially independent, IT IS UP TO YOU NOW!
"THINK ABOUT IT"
Before you throw this away or delete it from your mailbox, as I almost did, take a little time to read it and REALLY THINK ABOUT IT. Get a pencil and paper and figure out what could happen when YOU participate. Figure out the worst possible response and no matter how you calculate it, you will still make a lot of money! Definitely get back what you invested. Any doubts you have will vanish when your first orders come in. IT WORKS!
Paul Johnson, Raleigh, NC
HERE'S HOW THIS AMAZING PROGRAM WILL MAKE YOU $$$$$$$$$$$
Let's say that you decide to start small, just to see how it goes, and we'll assume that the mailing receives a 5% response. Using a good list the response could be much better. Also, many people will send out hundreds of thousands of programs instead of 2,000. But continuing with this example, you send out only 2,000 programs. With a 5% response, that is only 10 orders for REPORT #1. Those 10 people respond by sending out 2,000 programs each for a total of 20,000. Out of those 5%, 100 people respond and order REPORT #2. Those 100 mail out 2,000 programs each for a total of 200,000. the 5% response to that is 1,000 orders for REPORT #3. Those 1,000 send out 2,000 programs each for 2,000,000 total. The 5% response to that is 10,000 orders for REPORT #4. That's 10,000 five dollar bills for you. CASH!!!! Your total income in this example of $50 + $500 + $5000 + $50,000 for a total of $55,500!!!!!!
REMEMBER FRIEND, THIS IS ASSUMING 1,990 OUT OF 2,000 PEOPLE YOU MAIL TO WILL DO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.....AND TRASH THIS PROGRAM! DARE TO THINK FOR A MOMENT WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF EVERYONE OR HALF SENT OUT 100,000 PROGRAMS INSTEAD OF ONLY 2000. Believe me, many people will do that and more! By the way, your cost to participate in this is practially nothing if you go the email route. Email is FREE! REPORT #3 will show you the best methods for bulk emailing and purchasing email lists. If you go the regular mail route, that also will provide you with a very nice income. The costs for regular mail are higher.
THIS IS A LEGITIMATE, LEGAL, MONEY MAKING OPPORTUNITY. It does not require you to come in contact with people, do any hard work, and best of all, you never have to leave the house except to get the mail. If you believe that someday you'll get that big break that you've been waiting for, THIS IS IT! Simply follow the instructions, and your dreams will come true. This multi-level order marketing program works perfectly .... 100% EVERY TIME. If you have a computer, email is the sales tool of the future. Take advantage of this non-commercialized method of advertising NOW!!! The longer you wait, the more people will be doing business using email. Get your piece of this action now!!!
MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING (MLM) has finally gained respectability. It is being taught in the Harvard Business School, and both Stanford Research and The Wall Street Journal have stated that between 50% and 65% of all goods and services will be sold throughout Multi-Level Methods by the mid to late 1990's. This is a Multi-Billion Dollar industry and of the 500,000 millionaires in the US, 20% (100,000) made their fortune in the last several years in MLM. Moreover, statistics show 45 people become millionaires everyday through Multi-Level Marketing.
INSTUCTIONS
We at Erris Mail Order Marketing Business, have a method of raising capital that REALLY WORKS 100% EVERY TIME. I am sure that you could use $50,000 to $125,000 in the next 20 to 90 days. Before you say "Bull", please read the program very carefully!
This is not a chain letter, but a perfectly legal money making opportunity. Basically, this is what we do: As with all multi-level business, we build our business by recruiting new partners and selling our products. Every state in the USA allows you to recruit new multi-level business partners, and we offer a product for EVERY dollar sent. YOUR ORDERS COME AND ARE FILLED THROUGH THE MAIL, so you are not involved in personal selling. You do it privately in your own home, store or office.
This is the GREATEST Multi-level Mail OrderMarketng anywhere:
Step (1) ORDER ALL FOUR (4) REPORTS LISTED BY NAME AND NUMBER.
Do this by ordering the REPORT from each of the four (4) names listed. For
each REPORT, send $5 CASH and a SELF-ADDRESSED, STAMPED
envelope (BUSINESS SIZE #10) to the person LISTED for the SPECIFIC
REPORT. International orders should also include $1 extra for postage. It is
essential that you specify the NAME and NUMBER of the report requested
to the person you are ordering from. You will need ALL FOUR REPORTS
because you will be REPRINTING and RESELLING them. DO NOT alter the
names or sequence other than what the instructions say. IMPORTANT:
Always provide same-day service on all orders.
Step (2) REPLACE THE NAME AND ADDRESS UNDER REPORT #1 WITH YOURS,
moving the one that was there down to REPORT #2. Drop the name and
address under REPORT #2 to REPORT #3, moving the one that was there to
REPORT #4. The name and address that was under REPORT #4 is dropped
from the list and this party is no doubt on the way to the bank. When doing
this, make certain you type the names and addresses ACCURATELY! DO
NOT MIX UP MOVING PRODUCT/REPORT POSITIONS!!!!
Step (3) HAVING MADE THE REQUIRED CHANGES IN THE NAME LIST, save it as
Text (.txt) file in its own directory to be used with whatever email program you
like. Again, REPORT #3 will tell you the best methods of bulk emailing and
acquiring email lists.
Step (4) EMAIL OR MAIL A COPY OF THE ENTIRE PROGRAM (ALL OF THIS IS
VERY IMPORTANT) TO EVERYONE whose address you can get your hands
on. Start with friends and relatives since you can encourage them to take
advantage of this fabulous money-making opportunity. That's what I did. And
they love me now, more then ever. Then, email to anyone and everyone! Use
your imagination! You can get email addresses from companies on the
internet who specialize in email mailing lists and services, mailing them for
you. These are very inexpensive, 100,000 addresses for around $50.00 up.
IMPORTANT: You won't get a good response if you use an old list, so ALWAYS request a FRESH, NEW list. You will find out where to purchase these lists when you order the four (4) reports.
ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON ALL ORDERS!!!
REQUIRED REPORTS
**** Order each REPORT by NUMBER and NAME ****
ALWAYS SEND A SELF-ADDRESSED, STAMPED ENVELOPE AND $5 CASH FOR EACH ORDER REQUESTING THE SPECIFIC REPORT BY NAME AND NUMBER.
**** REPORT #1 "HOW TO MAKE $250,000 THROUGH MULTI-LEVEL SALES"
ORDER REPORT #1 FROM:
THE "Z" COMPANY
1506 Audubon Place
Shreveport, La. 71105
**** REPORT #2 "MAJOR CORPORATIONS AND MULTI-LEVEL SALES"
ORDER REPORT #2 FROM:
KZT
1013 Speed
Monroe, La. 71201
**** REPORT #3 "SOURCES FOR THE BEST MAILING LISTS"
ORDER REPORT #3 FROM:
SOUTHERN S. S.
1324 Chopin
Bossier City, La. 71112
**** REPORT #4 "EVALUTING MULTI-LEVEL SALES PLANS"
ORDER REPORT #4 FROM:
PREMIER CO.
115 Fielder Lane
Shreveport, La. 71105
CONCLUSION!
I am enjoying my fortune that I made by sending out this program. You, too, will be making money in 20 - 90 days, if you follow the SIMPLE STEPS outlined in this mailing.
To be financially independent is to be FREE. Free to make financial decisions as never before. Go into business, get into investments, retire or take a vacation. No longer will a lack of money hold you back.
However, very few people reach financial independence, because when opportunity knocks, they choose to ignore it. It is much easier to say "NO" than "YES", and this is the question that you must answer. WILL YOU ignore this amazing opportunity or will you take advantage of it? If you do nothing, you have indeed missed something and nothing will change. PLEASE re-read this material, this is a special opportunity. If you have questions, please feel free to write to the sender of this information. You will get a prompt and informative reply.
My method is simple. I sell thousands of people a product for $5 that costs me pennies to produce and email. I should also point out that this program is legal and everyone who participates WILL make money. This is not a chain letter or pyramid scam. At times you have probably received chain letters, asking you to send money, on faith, but getting NOTHING in return, no product what-so-ever! Not only are chain letters illegal, but the risk of someone breaking the chain makes them quite unattractive.
You are offering a legitimate product to your people. After they purchase the product from you, they reproduce more and resell them. It's simple free enterprise. As you learned from the enclosed material, the PRODUCT is a series of four (4) FINANCIAL AND BUSINESS REPORTS. The information contained in these REPORTS will not only help you in making your participation in this program more rewarding, but will be useful to you in any other business decisions you make in the years ahead. You are also buying the rights to reprint all of the REPORTS, which will be ordered from you by those to whom you mail this program. The concise one and two page REPORTS you will be buying can easily be reproduce at a local copy center for a cost of about 3 cents a copy. Best wishes with the program and GOOD LUCK!
"IT WAS TRULY AMAZING"
"Not being the gambling type, it took me several weeks to make up my mind to participate in this program. But conservative as I am, I decided that the initial investment was so little that there was no way that I could NOT get enough orders to at least get my money back. BOY, was I ever surprised when I found my medium sized post office box crammed with orders! I will make more money this year than any ten years of my life before".
Mary Riceland, Lansing, MI
TIPS FOR SUCCESS
Send for your 4 REPORTS immediately so you will have them when the orders start coming in. When you receive a $5 order, you MUST send out the product/service to comply with US Postal and Lottery laws. Title 18, Sections 1302 and 1341 specifically state that: "A PRODUCT OR SERVICE MUST BE EXCHANGED FOR MONEY RECEIVED".
WHILE YOU WAIT FOR THE REPORTS TO ARRIVE:
1. Name your new company. You can use your own name if you desire.
2. Get a post office box (preferred).
3. Edit the names and addresses on the program. You MUST remember, your name
and address go next to REPORT #1 and the others all move down one, with the
fourth one being bumped OFF.
4. Obtain as many addresses as possible to send until you receive the information
on the mailing list companies in REPORT #3.
5. Decide on the number of programs you intend to send out. The more you send out
and the quicker you send them, the more money you will make.
6. After mailing the programs, get ready to fill the orders.
7. Copy the four 4 REPORTS so you are able to send them out as soon as you
receive an order. IMPORTANT: ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON
ORDERS YOU RECEIVE!
8. Make certain the letter and reports are neat and legible.
YOUR GUARANTEE!
The check point which GUARANTEES your success is simply this: you must receive 15 to 20 orders for REPORT #1. This is a MUST!!!! If you don't within two weeks, email out more programs until you do. Then a couple of weeks later you should receive at least 100 orders for REPORT #2, IF YOU DON'T, send out more programs until you do. Once you have received 100 or more orders for REPORT #2, (TAKE A DEEP BREATH) you can sit back and relax, because YOU ARE GOING TO MAKE AT LEAST $50,000. Mathematically it is a proven guarantee. Of those who have participated in the program and reached the above GUARANTEES - ALL have reached their $50,000 goal. Also, remember, every time your name is moved down the list you are in front of a different REPORT, so you can keep track of your program by knowing what people are ordering from you. IT'S THAT EASY, REALLY, IT IS!!!!
REMEMBER:
"HE WHO DARES NOTHING, NEED NOT HOPE FOR ANYTHING".
"INVEST A LITTLE TIME, ENERGY AND MONEY NOW OR SEARCH FOR IT THE REST OF YOUR LIFE".
GOOD LUCK!
From 3umoelle at informatik.uni-hamburg.de Wed Jul 2 03:42:51 1997
From: 3umoelle at informatik.uni-hamburg.de (Ulf =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=F6ller?=)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 18:42:51 +0800
Subject: Degaussing
In-Reply-To: <19970702021749.17094.qmail@squirrel.owl.de>
Message-ID: <9707021020.AA54194@public.uni-hamburg.de>
> Could someone please point me to a FAQ or somesuch about degaussing
> magnetic media? Thank you!
I guess this is what you are looking for:
http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/secure_del.html
From stutz at dsl.org Wed Jul 2 05:39:46 1997
From: stutz at dsl.org (Michael Stutz)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 20:39:46 +0800
Subject: Liberating the Bits
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:
On Tue, 1 Jul 1997, Tim May wrote:
> Technology liberates the bits.
Copyright law is not only useless on the net but inefficient; one need only
compare the performance of free, copylefted software versus proprietary,
closed software to see which is better. But now it is possible to apply the
same principle of copyleft to _all_ non-software information, too --
including text, images and music. I have done this myself with novels and
albums of music, and have posted full instructions on how to apply this to
non-software information at .
m
Michael Stutz
stutz at dsl.org
http://dsl.org/m/
From dlv at bwalk.dm.com Wed Jul 2 05:57:12 1997
From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 20:57:12 +0800
Subject: Degaussing
In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19970701214609.03801e34@netcom10.netcom.com>
Message-ID:
Lucky Green writes:
> media for declassification purposes. They remove the oxide layer. In case
> of floppies the preferred method is incineration, in case of hard drives,
> the usual technique is sandblasting.
5.25" floppies could be run via a shredder (a big one, not the puny little
thing I have at home) but 3.5" floppies would make almost any shredder choke.
Some large corporations sell their old floppies to China, where they're
supposedly recycled into magentic strips for credit cards.
Hmm...
---
Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps
From kent at songbird.com Wed Jul 2 07:56:36 1997
From: kent at songbird.com (Kent Crispin)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 22:56:36 +0800
Subject: Jeff's Side of the Story.
In-Reply-To: <199707020337.UAA17514@you.got.net>
Message-ID: <19970702074006.19127@bywater.songbird.com>
On Tue, Jul 01, 1997 at 08:46:53PM -0700, Tim May wrote:
>
> There's been an ongoing discussion of the Huge Cojones remailer situation
> on the related newsgroups.
>
> This has a lot of relevance to our issues, and this is one of the more
> illuminating articles.
>
> --Tim
This probably has been suggested 20 years ago, but wouldn't Jeff's
problem have been solved if the following slight modification were
made to the algorithm: If you are the last remailer in a chain, then
with probability p you pick another randomly choosen remailer to send
through. If p is 1 end user mail would never come from you; if p is
0.5 then half the time you send the mail on one more step. The end
user, then, can never be sure of which remailer will ultimately
deliver the message.
If all remailers used this algorithm it has the disadvantage that mail
could float for a very long, non-deterministic time in the network --
if p were globally 1/2, for example, then with probality 1/1024, a
message would float on for 10 more hops.
But it has the advantage that the end user cannot pick which remailer
will ultimately deliver the message, thus making it much more
difficult to pick on a single remailer. It makes annonymous mailing
a less attractive service, since you introduce significant delays,
and an increased probability of loss. But maybe making anon
remailing less attractive would be a good thing.
The non-deterministic retention time in the network could probably be
solved, but at the expense of some significant complexity. I have
not been able to think of a secure way to do it, however. [If the
remailers know and trust each other, the problem is easy.]
--
Kent Crispin "No reason to get excited",
kent at songbird.com the thief he kindly spoke...
PGP fingerprint: B1 8B 72 ED 55 21 5E 44 61 F4 58 0F 72 10 65 55
http://songbird.com/kent/pgp_key.html
From E.J.Koops at kub.nl Wed Jul 2 08:43:29 1997
From: E.J.Koops at kub.nl (Bert-Jaap Koops)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 23:43:29 +0800
Subject: Crypto Law Survey updated
Message-ID: <9A131B1A13@frw3.kub.nl>
I have just updated my survey of existing and envisaged cryptography
laws and regulations.
See the Crypto Law Survey at
http://cwis.kub.nl/~frw/people/koops/lawsurvy.htm
This update includes:
- update on Australia (Walsh report), Germany (Interior Ministry
opinion), Sweden (IT commission report), US (government bill
amended, Kerrey-McCain bill, SAFE act amended and passed House
committees, czar travel FOIA request)
- clarification on Singapore (import, domestic), Japan (government cannot choose)
- URLs added to Belgium (law proposals), Canada (export), UK (cyber-rights report)
Comments are as always welcomed.
Kind regards,
Bert-Jaap
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Bert-Jaap Koops tel +31 13 466 8101
Center for Law, Administration and facs +31 13 466 8149
Informatization, Tilburg University e-mail E.J.Koops at kub.nl
--------------------------------------------------
Postbus 90153 | This world's just mad enough to have been made |
5000 LE Tilburg | by the Being his beings into being prayed. |
The Netherlands | (Howard Nemerov) |
---------------------------------------------------------------------
http://cwis.kub.nl/~frw/people/koops/bertjaap.htm
---------------------------------------------------------------------
From randerso at ece.eng.wayne.edu Wed Jul 2 09:05:00 1997
From: randerso at ece.eng.wayne.edu (Ryan Anderson)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 00:05:00 +0800
Subject: Jeff's Side of the Story.
In-Reply-To: <19970702074006.19127@bywater.songbird.com>
Message-ID:
On Wed, 2 Jul 1997, Kent Crispin wrote:
> The non-deterministic retention time in the network could probably be
> solved, but at the expense of some significant complexity. I have
> not been able to think of a secure way to do it, however. [If the
> remailers know and trust each other, the problem is easy.]
Remailers using this could be configured to not modify the "date" header
until final delivery. Then you can base the probablity of final delivery
upon some function of date/time or another header
"X-Remailer-Max-Delay-Time:" If you're worried about traffic analysis,
it is possible to randomly modify the date/time header by small amounts
at each hop. (This however only helps and somewhat loaded systems..)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ryan Anderson - "Who knows, even the horse might sing"
Wayne State University - CULMA "May you live in interesting times.."
randerso at ece.eng.wayne.edu Ohio = VYI of the USA
PGP Fingerprint - 7E 8E C6 54 96 AC D9 57 E4 F8 AE 9C 10 7E 78 C9
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From tcmay at got.net Wed Jul 2 09:11:20 1997
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 00:11:20 +0800
Subject: Jeff's Side of the Story.
In-Reply-To: <199707020337.UAA17514@you.got.net>
Message-ID:
At 7:40 AM -0700 7/2/97, Kent Crispin wrote:
>This probably has been suggested 20 years ago, but wouldn't Jeff's
>problem have been solved if the following slight modification were
>made to the algorithm: If you are the last remailer in a chain, then
>with probability p you pick another randomly choosen remailer to send
>through. If p is 1 end user mail would never come from you; if p is
>0.5 then half the time you send the mail on one more step. The end
>user, then, can never be sure of which remailer will ultimately
>deliver the message.
...
This general sort of thing has been discussed...though not 20 years ago! :-0
I don't know about this particular mathematical algorithm, but things
generally like it.
Long before a remailer shuts down, he should certainly adopt a strategy
like this. Sending "his" traffic through randomly selected other remailers
is certainly an option. (Any remailer can at any point insert additional
hops, or even chains of hops, merely be addressing them correctly. Of
course, the "original" (which may not be the real original, of course, as
other remailers may have done the same thing) needs to "get back on track,"
else the decryptions won't work. But this is all a simple problem.
I don't know what gets discussed on the "remailer operators list," not
being on it, but it sure seems to me that remailers have stagnated, and
that some of the robust methods of reducing attacks on any particular
remailer are not being used.
--Tim May
There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws.
Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay at got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."
From kent at songbird.com Wed Jul 2 10:16:12 1997
From: kent at songbird.com (Kent Crispin)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 01:16:12 +0800
Subject: Jeff's Side of the Story.
In-Reply-To: <19970702074006.19127@bywater.songbird.com>
Message-ID: <19970702100000.40925@bywater.songbird.com>
On Wed, Jul 02, 1997 at 11:53:56AM -0400, Ryan Anderson wrote:
> On Wed, 2 Jul 1997, Kent Crispin wrote:
>
> > The non-deterministic retention time in the network could probably be
> > solved, but at the expense of some significant complexity. I have
> > not been able to think of a secure way to do it, however. [If the
> > remailers know and trust each other, the problem is easy.]
>
> Remailers using this could be configured to not modify the "date" header
> until final delivery. Then you can base the probablity of final delivery
> upon some function of date/time or another header
> "X-Remailer-Max-Delay-Time:" If you're worried about traffic analysis,
> it is possible to randomly modify the date/time header by small amounts
> at each hop. (This however only helps and somewhat loaded systems..)
The Evil One can always masquerade as the next to the last remailer,
with suitably altered date fields or whatever. I wasn't thinking in
terms of traffic analysis -- I was thinking in terms of guaranteeing
that the last remailer in the chain, the one that actually delivers
the message, cannot be predicted in advance.
The current remailer algorithm allows an evil user to cause a
particular remailer to be the source of Bad Stuff, which makes that
remailer a target of those who don't like the Bad Stuff. The basic
problem is that the end user is able to specify the remailer chain.
[Digital postage can't do much to solve this problem, BTW. The
offensiveness of a message is not measured by the postage.]
On the face of it, this seems like a relatively simple problem. The
current algorithm allows the end user to specify the final remailer
-- change it so that the final remailer is not under the end user's
control. The problem is, how does the final remailer know whether it
was chosen by the end user, or by another remailer who *used* to be the
final.
Incidentally, another useful modification of having the final
remailer forward one more time is this:
if( destination address is in my legal jurisdiction )then
with higher probability forward to another randomly chosen remailer
else
with lower probability forward to another remailer
endif
--
Kent Crispin "No reason to get excited",
kent at songbird.com the thief he kindly spoke...
PGP fingerprint: B1 8B 72 ED 55 21 5E 44 61 F4 58 0F 72 10 65 55
http://songbird.com/kent/pgp_key.html
From alano at teleport.com Wed Jul 2 10:17:09 1997
From: alano at teleport.com (Alan)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 01:17:09 +0800
Subject: Degaussing
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:
On Tue, 1 Jul 1997, Bill Frantz wrote:
>
> At 10:02 PM -0700 7/1/97, Alan Olsen wrote:
> >At 02:17 AM 7/2/97 -0000, Secret Squirrel wrote:
> >>
> >>Could someone please point me to a FAQ or somesuch about degaussing
> >>magnetic media? Thank you!
> >
> >Electromagnetic pulse. You want something as strong as possible. About 10
> >megatons should generate a big enough pulse.
>
> It works better if you also expose it to the heat and blast. :-)
>
> In all seriousness, complete physical destruction of the media is the only
> sure technique. Lucky Green's sandblasting sounds like it should work
> well. Melting it into slag should also work.
That reminds me... I have some old drives I need to take down to the
shooting range. (I want to make them an example to the other drives...)
Sounds like a Cypherpunk project to me. ]:>
alano at teleport.com | "Those who are without history are doomed to retype it."
From paul at fatmans.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 2 10:22:19 1997
From: paul at fatmans.demon.co.uk (Paul Bradley)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 01:22:19 +0800
Subject: NRA and National Online Records Check bullshit
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:
> - Hanging--very quick and very painless (the neck is snapped, and
> consciousness vanishes)
Actually it was only relatively recently that this became the case, I
believe it was either William Calcraft or one of the Pierrepont family
who perfected the drop calculation method of hanging (both families were
British executioners, Calcraft at Newgate prison and the Pierreponts at
various places over a long period of time), before that it was quite
common for the condemned to either choke to death if the drop was too
short, or to be beheaded if it was too long. Newgate prison is
incidentally the same place where as late as 1789 people were burnt to
death for witchcraft, sophisticated England huh? ;-)...
> - Electrocution--originally designed to render subject unconscious almost
> immediately. Whether it does this merits discussion, but the original
> intent was surely for a "scientific" fast death (just as the guillotine was
> similarly designed)
I don`t know the exact figure but I seem to remember a US execution using
the electric chair which took over 40 minutes to complete? I believe a
typical time from current on to unconsciousness is around 2 minutes?
> >I can see the point of view which accepts serving of sentence as being
> >the end of punishment, and I do not accept a ban on firearms as being
> >implicit in the commision of a felony, but if a court explicitly states
> >that part of the punishment should be a X year or lifetime ban I can
> >accept that.
>
> Does this mean that you would "accept" a wording which took away a released
> convict's ability to speak freely, or to practice the religion of his
> choice?
No, speech or practice of religion are not of the same ilk as the right
to own firearms, I am definitely on thin ice here, and I admit I am not
entirely certain of my own perspective, BUT I cannot see how someone
convicted of armed robbery should be allowed the right to own firearms again.
A person convicted of a violent armed crime is just not in the same
league as an innocent citizen, and should not have the same rights.
> ("Upon completion of your 6-month sentence for public blasphemy, you
> must renounce Baalism and accept the religion so ordered by the court.")
>
> Why is this any different from taking away Second Amendment rights?
See the above, I refer you to the danger of a person who has already
proven their disregard for the rights of others being allowed to own weapons.
> But how does a lifetime, blanket ban on possession of firearms--i.e., a
> complete denial of Second Amendment rights--for any of tens of thousands
> of claimed "felonies" fit with this "compelling need" model? What's the
> compelling need for the state to deny Second Amendment rights for life
> to someone convicted of fraud or money laundering?
Tim, you are either taking me out of context or overgeneralising my
statement, as I know you are not of the second persuation I will assume
the first and re-iterate that I do not believe in the restriction of
second ammendment rights for people convicted of felonies in general,
only for those convicted of serious violent crimes. And I do not believe
in a lifetime blanket ban, ie. "All convicted armed robbers shall never
be allowed to posess firearms again", I believe a court should be able to
use its own discretion to decide a fitting punishment, ie. "You shall be
sentenced to 5 years imprisonment and a 10 year ban on ownership of
firearms".
> The compelling need appears to be related to the general trend of
> disarming as many of the marks as possible, as soon as possible.
> (I understand, Paul, that you are not a U.S. citizen, but this is the
> framework for the current discussion.)
This is an evident trend in most of the world, with the UK following the
path of the US. For many years it has been the case that on the commision
of any crime, even for example drink-driving, or common assult (a UK
offence classification for the most trivial of assult cases, ie. hitting
someone), the right to own guns is immediately removed and never
returned, even when the offence is spent under the rehabilitation act. I
recall my own father having trouble obtaining a firearms licence some
years ago because of a drink-drive conviction some 20 years earlier...
I will state once more though, and attempt not to post again on this
thread as I don`t want a flame war, that I do not support or condone
general loss of 2nd ammendment rights for any and all felonies in
general, only for serious violent crimes and then at the discretion of a
court and not as some pre-set standard penalty.
Datacomms Technologies data security
Paul Bradley, Paul at fatmans.demon.co.uk
Paul at crypto.uk.eu.org, Paul at cryptography.uk.eu.org
Http://www.cryptography.home.ml.org/
Email for PGP public key, ID: FC76DA85
"Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey"
From 07594284 at juno.com Wed Jul 2 10:23:49 1997
From: 07594284 at juno.com (07594284 at juno.com)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 01:23:49 +0800
Subject: special notice
Message-ID: <199703170025.GAA079@imsday.com>
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From sunder at brainlink.com Wed Jul 2 10:54:27 1997
From: sunder at brainlink.com (Ray Arachelian)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 01:54:27 +0800
Subject: New Jersey's 'sexy' counties (fwd)
Message-ID:
Subject: New Jersey's 'sexy' counties
Internet censors blocking Jersey's 'sexy' counties
By Jeff May
Newark Star-Ledger
July 1, 1997
With its tractor pulls, pig and poultry exhibitions, and demolition
derbies, the Sussex County Fair is almost a parody of wholesome fun.
But to some programs that parents use to block pornographic material
on the Internet, the Web site for "New Jersey's Best Fair" might as well
be a pit of sin.
The problem: Sussex contains the word "sex." To a computer
searching for smut, that's all that's needed to raise a red flag.
Most filtering programs rely on key words, and sex is at the top of the
forbidden list. Children who try to log on to the Sussex fair site might
as well be trying to dial up Playboy online.
Essex and Middlesex counties have the same problem. The free
program that America Online provides for its subscribers, for example,
blocks online access to both Essex County College and the Essex
County Clerk's Office.
"We're as G-rated as a Disney movie," protested Patrick McNally, the
county clerk.
Passport information and property tax tips hardly make for racy
subject matter, and McNally said he was "somewhat amused" that it
would be considered as such. Web surfers apparently agree: Since the
site was created earlier this year, only 2,958 people have visited it.
"Probably 2,900 are me," McNally said.
But McNally said he understood the impulse to use parental control
programs, which are expected to become more popular in the wake of
the Supreme Court's decision to strike down government control of
indecent material on the Internet.
"As a father, I certainly don't want my children to stumble across
something they shouldn't on the Net," he said. "I could see where it
would be a problem."
Most problems with the screening devices occur when parents rely on
the broadest keywords possible, said Gordon Ross, president and
CEO of Net Nanny, one of several programs on the market to screen
out objectionable content. They usually disappear as users become
more knowledgeable about the system.
"Unfortunately, some people don't read the manuals," he said.
Parents may not need to by 2000. Advances in artificial intelligence are
expected to make the cybercensors a lot more discriminating, Ross said.
"A lot of the decisions will be made by the computer itself," he said.
Some companies say they've already reached that point. A spokesman
for Surfwatch, Jay Friedland, says the popular program uses "pattern
matching" to weed out references to sex but not acceptable ones such
as the poet Anne Sexton.
"The key focus for us is real simplicity," Friedland said. "Even if we
were overblocking accidentally, it is very easy to turn off."
But most e-mail requests to the company ask for advice about blocking
sites, not unblocking them, he said.
"It's about 100 to one," he said.
For now, sponsors of the Sussex County Fair aren't overly concerned
about children being unable to scroll through the festival's web site. The
site is a little more than a year old, but the fair doesn't rely on it for
promotions, said spokeswoman Kathleen Cafasso.
Dropping the web site address's reference to Sussex which, like the
similar county names, is derived from the Saxons of old England isn't
an option, Cafasso said.
"We wouldn't even consider it," she said. "It's not worth the lack of
identification."
From sunder at brainlink.com Wed Jul 2 11:01:15 1997
From: sunder at brainlink.com (Ray Arachelian)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 02:01:15 +0800
Subject: ** INNOVATIONS: SPYING SAUCER ** (fwd)
Message-ID:
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 00:16:51 -0400
From: Salvatore Denaro
Subject: ** INNOVATIONS: SPYING SAUCER **
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
** INNOVATIONS: SPYING SAUCER **
Sikorsky Aircraft in Stratford, Conn., has designed and built a small,
round rotary-wing pilotless aircraft that can locate and follow objects,
flying down urban streets or peeping into windows. The Cypher is
propelled by two rigid motors, one above the other, that revolve in
opposite directions. The outside shell of the aircraft is rounded, like
a donut, giving the machine some protection when it bumps into tree
branches, or the sides of buildings. It can stay aloft for about two and
a half hours, using advanced software made by Lockheed Martin and
Northrup Grumman to find and trail enemy soldiers, or scout out an urban
setting for potential sharpshooters. A video camera mounted on the
aircraft can peer through windows when engineers on the ground signal the
Cypher to land on a nearby rooftop. "The beauty of Cypher," says the
aircraft's project leader, "is that it can fly low and slow."
(Scientific American Jun 97)
- --
Salvatore Denaro
sal at panix.com
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Charset: noconv
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=vFbW
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From nobody at huge.cajones.com Wed Jul 2 12:19:37 1997
From: nobody at huge.cajones.com (BigNuts)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 03:19:37 +0800
Subject: Column, July 8
Message-ID: <199707021858.MAA28995@wombat.sk.sympatico.ca>
Vin Suprynowicz wrote:
> FROM MOUNTAIN MEDIA
> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE DATED JULY 8, 1997
> THE LIBERTARIAN, By Vin Suprynowicz
> When did we start valuing 'stability' over 'freedom'?
> Did anyone else watch in disbelief the televised "celebration" of the
> humiliating surrender of the free city of Hong Kong to a bloodthirsty,
> totalitarian slave state on June the 30th?
...
> In fact, in all the coverage I watched, the word "freedom" was never used
> once ... ranking right up there with another unheard word, "Communist."
>
> I swear to you, despite multiple respectful references to the "People's
> Liberation Army" (which appeared to have suited up in powder blue uniforms,
> like extras in a James Bond film, for the occasion) there was not one use
> of the word "Red" or "Communist." I was actually starting to picture an NBC
> news anchor in Hungary in 1956 smilingly reporting, "A great sigh of relief
> is being heard here as the People's Liberation tanks return, guaranteeing
> at least another decade of 'stability'."
...
> A news clip gave us the city's new Red party boss, the day before, being
> asked whether the new regime would tolerate demonstrations and freedom of
> speech.
>
> "We may tolerate some freedom of speech," he said in his kindly,
> avuncular way, "depending on what they try to say."
>
> Now there's a definition of freedom to warm the hearts of Roberta
> Achtenburg, Janet Reno, and Louis Freeh.
> ***
> Vin Suprynowicz is the assistant editorial page editor of the Las Vegas
> Review-Journal. Readers may contact him via e-mail at vin at lvrj.com. The web
> site for the Suprynowicz column is at http://www.nguworld.com/vindex/.
"We may tolerate some breathing," Janet Reno said in her kindly,
avuncular way, "depending on who tries to breathe."
"We may tolerate some Assassination Politics," Louis Freeh said
in his kindly, avuncular way, "depending on who they are attempting
to assassinate."
"We may tolerate some flaming," Sandy Sandfort said in his kindly,
avuncular way, "depending on who they are flaming."
"We may tolerate some truth," TruthMonger said in his kindly,
avuncular way, "depending on what they are trying to monger."
D r . R o b e r t s
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From paul at fatmans.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 2 12:33:28 1997
From: paul at fatmans.demon.co.uk (Paul Bradley)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 03:33:28 +0800
Subject: Copyright / Re: Dr. Dobbs Cryptography and Security CD-ROM
In-Reply-To: <199707012155.XAA06734@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID:
> As a recording musician I expected to get money for my recordings,
> just as everyone else in the chain of business did in making my
> music available to the end-user. (And just as a grocer who makes
> food available to his customers expects you to leave something in
> the till on your way out of the store.)
You draw incorrect paralells between the physical medium and the data
encoded on it.
> I have never had any problem with someone recording a copy of my
> music from a purchased copy if they are a music lover with a thin
> pocket, or can't readily purchase it. If someone with a $2000.00
> stereo wants to enjoy the fruits of my labor without contributing
> any money to my health and welfare, then I consider them to be just
> another thief.
Theivery doesn`t come into it, you simply have no property rights over
your speech. I can "say" whatever I want, that includes "saying" the same
set of bits on a CD made by you, onto a tape or minidisc. Because MD and
DAT are not yet common, and as Tim pointed out most consumer DAT boxes
don`t copy original CDs or DATs, copying is less widespread than it could
be; if I like an Artists work or a particular album I will buy it on CD
because the quality is higher than copying to tape, and I don`t have a
DAT machine (even if I did I wouldn`t find it useful as my main stereo is
in my car). I don`t just say this; I do it, I have a lot of copied music
which I listen to occasionally but all my favourite stuff (my large-ish
collection of jazz and blues) is on original CD.
> Buy it, if at all possible. If you download a copy on the net
> and can't afford $99.00, then send them $10.00, or $20.00, etc.
> If you can't afford to send them a nickle, then do what you can
> to promote their product. Provide pointers to their business,
> tell people about their products, etc.
I agree with this sentiment entirely: Copyright is not something to be
enforced or condoned but if you do use someones work think about at least
giving credit or making a donation on a voluntary basis, for one thing it
helps stimulate the market.
> Technology may well enable us to take the product and give
> nothing in return to those who made it available, but doing so
> will not further our own beliefs and aims to any extent.
Again, this is the right way to think of "intellectual property", not as
real tangiable property which can, or even should be protected, but as a
bond of trust between provider and end user, if you rip off a copy of my
s/w and decide you like it, why not buy a copy? The same is true of
music, source code, hard-copy books etc...
Datacomms Technologies data security
Paul Bradley, Paul at fatmans.demon.co.uk
Paul at crypto.uk.eu.org, Paul at cryptography.uk.eu.org
Http://www.cryptography.home.ml.org/
Email for PGP public key, ID: FC76DA85
"Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey"
From stephen at iu.net Wed Jul 2 12:35:50 1997
From: stephen at iu.net (Stephen Cobb, CISSP)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 03:35:50 +0800
Subject: Dr. Dobbs Cryptography and Security CD-ROM
In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19970629105616.03c32a40@mail.teleport.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19970702153109.00738038@iu.net>
At 10:56 AM 6/29/97 -0700, you wrote:
>While reading the latest issue of Dr. Dobbs, I found something of interest...
>
>Dr. Dobbs Essential Books on Cryptography and Security CD-ROM
>Price $99.95
>
>It is supposed to be shipping in July.
Thanks for the tip. Sounds great. I just ordered mine.
Readers accustomed to "instant gratification" are warned that the publisher
is now saying "you should receive it by August 1."
Stephen
From randerso at ece.eng.wayne.edu Wed Jul 2 12:38:14 1997
From: randerso at ece.eng.wayne.edu (Ryan Anderson)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 03:38:14 +0800
Subject: Jeff's Side of the Story.
In-Reply-To: <19970702100000.40925@bywater.songbird.com>
Message-ID:
On Wed, 2 Jul 1997, Kent Crispin wrote:
> The Evil One can always masquerade as the next to the last remailer,
> with suitably altered date fields or whatever. I wasn't thinking in
> terms of traffic analysis -- I was thinking in terms of guaranteeing
> that the last remailer in the chain, the one that actually delivers
> the message, cannot be predicted in advance.
Well, to make the remailers more intelligent, have them count incoming
mail from the list of remailers participating in the system. (either that
or a rate) when one remailer seems to be sending much more mail than the
others (which shouldn't happen if all remailers are randomly distributing
the mail to each other) you automatically do the random forward to
another remailer.
There still exists a problem if a coordinated attack on the whole system
occurs, with large amounts of mail seeking to discredit a group of
remailers at once...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ryan Anderson - "Who knows, even the horse might sing"
Wayne State University - CULMA "May you live in interesting times.."
randerso at ece.eng.wayne.edu Ohio = VYI of the USA
PGP Fingerprint - 7E 8E C6 54 96 AC D9 57 E4 F8 AE 9C 10 7E 78 C9
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From sunder at brainlink.com Wed Jul 2 13:02:20 1997
From: sunder at brainlink.com (Ray Arachelian)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 04:02:20 +0800
Subject: This was forged:: Re: This is NOT trespassing.
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:
Looking through a shitload of old messages, looks like someone decided to
write some mail in my own name. Carefully looking at the headers shows
that this was sent through torfree.net or something, and didn't orginate
here.
Too bad I didn't spot this earlier...
=====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos==============
.+.^.+.| Ray Arachelian | "If you wanna touch the sky, you must |./|\.
..\|/..|sunder at sundernet.com| be prepared to die. And I hate cough |/\|/\
<--*-->| ------------------ | syrup, don't you?" |\/|\/
../|\..| "A toast to Odin, | For with those which eternal lie, with |.\|/.
.+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"| strange aeons, even death may die. |.....
======================== http://www.sundernet.com =========================
=============================
From sunder at brainlink.com Sat Jun 14 09:46:14 1997
Received: from mail.torfree.net (root at danforth.torfree.net [199.71.188.17]) by beast.brainlink.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA03645 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 09:46:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ray Arachelian
Received: from brainlink.com ([153.35.233.146]) by mail.torfree.net
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
(/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.8; 15-jan-97)
via sendmail with smtp id
(sender sunder at brainlink.com)
for ; Sat, 14 Jun 97 09:43 EDT
Message-Id:
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 97 09:43 EDT
Apparently-From:
Apparently-To:
Subject: This is NOT trespassing.
Comment: Authenticated sender is
Status: RO
X-Status:
Did you pay for your TV? Do you buy electricity by the KWH?
Pay a monthly cable bill? If so, then why isn't a television
commercial considered theft of your televised resources?
Doesn't it cost something to ride the bus? Then why aren't
the public transport's advertisers guilty of stealing your
wallspace?
What about newspapers, magazines, radio stations, going to
the movies, driving on any road, almost any PAID activity in
life? Each has its attendent advertisments and commercials.
We PAY for an enormous percentage of solicitations. Everyday.
>>>>>>> WHY SHOULD YOUR EMAIL BOX BE ANY DIFFERENT? <<<<<<<
Fact is, it isn't. Nor will it ever be. When you make any
contact in public via any media or communication form, there
will come invitations, solicitations, possibly vexations and
the like. It's one of the prices we must pay in order to be
able to communicate at all.
From kent at songbird.com Wed Jul 2 13:11:50 1997
From: kent at songbird.com (Kent Crispin)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 04:11:50 +0800
Subject: Jeff's Side of the Story.
In-Reply-To: <199707020337.UAA17514@you.got.net>
Message-ID: <19970702125735.31906@bywater.songbird.com>
On Wed, Jul 02, 1997 at 09:00:04AM -0700, Tim May wrote:
> At 7:40 AM -0700 7/2/97, Kent Crispin wrote:
>
> >This probably has been suggested 20 years ago, but wouldn't Jeff's
> >problem have been solved if the following slight modification were
> >made to the algorithm: If you are the last remailer in a chain, then
> >with probability p you pick another randomly choosen remailer to send
> >through. If p is 1 end user mail would never come from you; if p is
> >0.5 then half the time you send the mail on one more step. The end
> >user, then, can never be sure of which remailer will ultimately
> >deliver the message.
> ...
>
> This general sort of thing has been discussed...though not 20 years ago! :-0
Just teasing.
> I don't know about this particular mathematical algorithm, but things
> generally like it.
>
> Long before a remailer shuts down, he should certainly adopt a strategy
> like this. Sending "his" traffic through randomly selected other remailers
> is certainly an option. (Any remailer can at any point insert additional
> hops, or even chains of hops, merely be addressing them correctly. Of
> course, the "original" (which may not be the real original, of course, as
> other remailers may have done the same thing) needs to "get back on track,"
> else the decryptions won't work. But this is all a simple problem.
I don't think it is so simple. It is, as you say, easy to add
interior hops, but they don't do the remailers any good -- they add
cover for the end user only. It is the "exterior edge" remailers that
are at risk, and such a remailer has no easy way of knowing if it was
selected at random, or was chosen as a specific target. At least, I
can't think of an easy way. A particular remailer may have cohorts
it trusts to be sources of random selection, but remailer trust is a
flimsy foundation.
> I don't know what gets discussed on the "remailer operators list," not
> being on it, but it sure seems to me that remailers have stagnated, and
> that some of the robust methods of reducing attacks on any particular
> remailer are not being used.
It's a problem with any infrastructure, though -- once it is in
place, change becomes hard.
The next generation remailer infrastructure should support a great
many remailers, and it should be impossible to target any single
remailer. The infrastructure as a whole should be resistant to
attack.
This seems to imply 1) that remailers be small, cheap, easy to install
and run, 2) mail volume through any particular remailer should be
small, 3) the infrastructure should support transient remailers -- I
guess that is just a particular of a general robustness requirement;
4) the infrastructure should support volume restrictions from source
addresses -- for example, allow only 1 message per day from a
particular address.
Also, the "routing algorithm" should involve two stages -- the first
stage should be for the benefit of and controlled by the end user, to
bury the message in the network so that it can't be traced (unless a
secure retrace path is built in to the message). The second stage is
for the benefit of the remailers, and controlled by them. During the
first stage the message is masked, and the destination address is
unavailable, during the second stage the message is unmasked, and the
destination address and message (probably) are clear, and the
remailer network is trying to decide which remailer to make the final
delivery. (When I say "unmasked" I mean only at the remailer node --
not in transit -- the message is *always* encrypted in transit.)
--
Kent Crispin "No reason to get excited",
kent at songbird.com the thief he kindly spoke...
PGP fingerprint: B1 8B 72 ED 55 21 5E 44 61 F4 58 0F 72 10 65 55
http://songbird.com/kent/pgp_key.html
From sunder at brainlink.com Wed Jul 2 13:19:22 1997
From: sunder at brainlink.com (Ray Arachelian)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 04:19:22 +0800
Subject: Dr. Dobbs Cryptography and Security CD-ROM
In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19970702153109.00738038@iu.net>
Message-ID:
On Wed, 2 Jul 1997, Stephen Cobb, CISSP wrote:
> Thanks for the tip. Sounds great. I just ordered mine.
>
> Readers accustomed to "instant gratification" are warned that the publisher
> is now saying "you should receive it by August 1."
I just ordered mine, they said mid July...
=====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos==============
.+.^.+.| Ray Arachelian | "If you wanna touch the sky, you must |./|\.
..\|/..|sunder at sundernet.com| be prepared to die. And I hate cough |/\|/\
<--*-->| ------------------ | syrup, don't you?" |\/|\/
../|\..| "A toast to Odin, | For with those which eternal lie, with |.\|/.
.+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"| strange aeons, even death may die. |.....
======================== http://www.sundernet.com =========================
From 78173518 at arosnet.se Thu Jul 3 05:12:37 1997
From: 78173518 at arosnet.se (78173518 at arosnet.se)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 05:12:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: CABLE DESCRAMBLER...Build Cheap & Easy!
Message-ID: <>
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From: how at amug.org (how at amug.org)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 05:13:12 -0700 (PDT)
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From stutz at dsl.org Wed Jul 2 14:16:10 1997
From: stutz at dsl.org (Michael Stutz)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 05:16:10 +0800
Subject: Copyright / Re: Dr. Dobbs Cryptography and Security CD-ROM
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:
On Wed, 2 Jul 1997, Paul Bradley wrote:
> > Technology may well enable us to take the product and give
> > nothing in return to those who made it available, but doing so
> > will not further our own beliefs and aims to any extent.
>
> Again, this is the right way to think of "intellectual property", not as
> real tangiable property which can, or even should be protected, but as a
> bond of trust between provider and end user, if you rip off a copy of my
> s/w and decide you like it, why not buy a copy? The same is true of
> music, source code, hard-copy books etc...
This is why I favor copylefting all information, software and otherwise. If
a computer program is copyrighted it cannot be easily shared or improved,
while copyleft encourages this. Same for music, texts and other works -- if
a song is released under the terms of the GNU GPL or similar copyleft, I am
free to copy and modify that song as I see fit, which includes making DATs,
burning my own CDs and performing improvisations to the song (whose
transcriptions could be likened to its "source code," of which I am free to
improve upon as I see fit). The artist can be supported by purchasing hard
copy of the music (CDs etc) from her/him, as well as posters, t-shirts and
other paraphernalia (as well as outright donation), but I am no longer
restricted by the scourge of copyright law and the fictitious construct of
"intellectual property" in my thoughts and communications about the work; I
am free to share my thoughts and communications with others.
Michael Stutz
http://dsl.org/m/
From wesley at binarycompass.com Wed Jul 2 14:17:50 1997
From: wesley at binarycompass.com (Wesley Felter)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 05:17:50 +0800
Subject: Dr. Dobbs Cryptography and Security CD-ROM
Message-ID: <1344269781-47438381@mail.binarycompass.com>
On 7/2/1997 10:10 AM, Paul Bradley said:
>> A simpler solution (which I believe was used for Unix distribution
>> CD's) would be to encrypt the naughty bits using a strong algorithm,
>> say 56 bit DES :-), but only distribute the decryption key to
>> USA/Canadian citizens. If you could get this past the Export people,
>> you could make a single CD available world-wide. Don't forget to
>> escrow the key with the French authorities.
>
>If someone made such a CD, then someone who obtained it within the US
>posted the key so people outside US/Canada could decrypt the data, who
>would be charged with exporting the software? Could there even be a case
>for charging anyone, after all, keys are not covered in the export regs????
>It`s probably a moot point anyway as I doubt such a CD would be given an
>export licence.
Which reminds me of...
Netscape can export 40-bit versions of Communicator, and according to one
of their own employees (search back in the archives if you don't believe
me) the only difference between the 40-bit version and the 128-bit
version is a license file. Now license files aren't covered in export
regulations, are they? So it's legal to export the 40-bit version of
Communicator (which contains disabled 128-bit crypto) and it's legal to
export the license file. Sounds like it's either not true or the
government is stupider than I thought or the government is tired of
trying to enforce such futile laws.
Wesley Felter - wesley at binarycompass.com - Binary Compass Enterprises
In BizRate we trust -
Disclaimer: My employer knows I'm crazy.
From nobody at huge.cajones.com Wed Jul 2 14:52:54 1997
From: nobody at huge.cajones.com (BigNuts)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 05:52:54 +0800
Subject: Liberating the Bits
Message-ID: <199707022134.PAA16117@wombat.sk.sympatico.ca>
Michael Stutz wrote:
> On Tue, 1 Jul 1997, Tim May wrote:
>
> > Technology liberates the bits.
>
> Copyright law is not only useless on the net but inefficient; one need only
> compare the performance of free, copylefted software versus proprietary,
> closed software to see which is better. But now it is possible to apply the
> same principle of copyleft to _all_ non-software information, too --
> including text, images and music. I have done this myself with novels and
> albums of music, and have posted full instructions on how to apply this to
> non-software information at .
Tim gave excellent information on how one can go about using
technology to enjoy the fruits of other people's labour without
contributing toward the survival of those producing the things
he enjoys.
(I, being more niggardly, will refuse to share a technique I developed
for stealing money from a blind beggar's cup and candy from a child's
Halloween bag.)
Michael is right about technology and the InterNet now making it
possible to circumvent the principle represented by copyright law.
When I originally came up with the concept of BlackNet and
anonymous remailers, I foresaw that my invention of Public Key
Cryptography might help make it possible for ordinary people to reap
the benefits of other peoples' ideas and hard work, without doing
anything to contribute toward the survival of creative, productive
people.
Although a person *can* enjoy the product of other peoples' efforts
without contributing toward the production of that product, the decision
as to whether they *should* do so should not be taken lightly.
I believe that we live in a predatorial universe and that everything
we do involves some form of "eating" the life forms around us, whether
we do so physically, emotionally, or mentally. Whether the process
involves hunting what already exists, or growing new life forms by
farming, our future quality of life will depend on the quality of
resource management done by ourself and others.
There is undoubtedly an increased cost for certain software, music
albums, etc, because of the theft and coercion of the companies that
dominate an industry (via bribes, collusion, political donations),
but there is also a fixed cost that needs to be met for these products
to continue existing and developing.
There is also a minimum level of sustenance needed by those who
produce the products we use, and if this is not met, then they cease
producing those products. If you copy George Strait's albums without
putting a few pennies in his pocket, it is not likely to inhibit his
market enough to matter, but if you do the same with an album by a
group who is living in a station-wagon between gigs, then you might
find yourself wondering "What ever happened to 'Psychotic Losers'?"
I bought Microsoft Word because I like the product and use it
a lot. Other Microsoft programs that I use occassionally, I just
grab a copy from someone else because it's not worth my while
to pay big money for it and I don't want to waste my time and effort
using a product which doesn't fit into their proprietary scheme.
(I apply the same standards to stealing children's Halloween candy.
I only steal from fat kids, and I don't take the whole bag. I want
to make it worth their while to go trick-or-treating next year.)
I can understand that Tim May wants to hang on to the mountain of
cash that was made possible by his company's software copyrights,
but I am surprised that he seems so boastful about denying others
any compensation for their ideas, talent, and labour.
The Internet seems to be moving proprietary software more toward
a shareware/freeware attitude, since some companies are seeing the
benefit of making their product widely available. An example is
Microsoft making a file available for people without their product
to read the documents produced with it.
I suspect that the technology which allows most information to
be set free from the bondage of copyright will lead to a more
balanced playing field where it is harder for a company to keep
their prices artificially high by virtue of market domination
and political pull, but there will always remain a need for those
who create and produce to receive compensation for doing so.
There's something wrong when Janet Reno is not
a felon under an increasing number of laws.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
TruthMonger #1 | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tm at dev.null 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms,
zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information
markets,
Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments.
"Reputation Capital isn't even a speed bump to Identity highway
robbery."
From nobody at huge.cajones.com Wed Jul 2 14:53:03 1997
From: nobody at huge.cajones.com (BigNuts)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 05:53:03 +0800
Subject: Good Cop/Bad Cop
Message-ID: <199707022134.PAA16114@wombat.sk.sympatico.ca>
sampler-request at lmboyd.com wrote:
> ======================================================
> TV ratings now indicate more people hate outlaw
> characters and admire police characters. Curiously,
> though, the police they admire most are the ones who act
> like outlaws."
> ==============================================
> LMBoyd Web Site / U. S. Newspapers / Start Email / Stop Email
> http://www.LMBoyd.com/postscript.htm
The above apparently applies to politicians, as well.
TruthMonger
From nobody at REPLAY.COM Wed Jul 2 14:53:39 1997
From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 05:53:39 +0800
Subject: Degaussing
Message-ID: <199707022138.XAA23892@basement.replay.com>
> At 10:02 PM -0700 7/1/97, Alan Olsen wrote:
> >At 02:17 AM 7/2/97 -0000, Secret Squirrel wrote:
> >>
> >>Could someone please point me to a FAQ or somesuch about degaussing
> >>magnetic media? Thank you!
> >
> >Electromagnetic pulse. You want something as strong as possible. About 10
> >megatons should generate a big enough pulse.
When using the above method, it is best performed in Washington, D.C.
From stewarts at ix.netcom.com Wed Jul 2 16:37:52 1997
From: stewarts at ix.netcom.com (Bill Stewart)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 07:37:52 +0800
Subject: Return of Huge Cajones Remailer
In-Reply-To: <199707022134.PAA16117@wombat.sk.sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19970702161745.03104c54@popd.ix.netcom.com>
I was interested to see the following headers in a posting to the net.
It's _pretending_ to be from the now-defunct huge.cajones.com remailer,
though it's in fact from Canada.
=================== HEADERS =========
Return-Path:
Received: from sirius.infonex.com (sirius.infonex.com [206.170.114.2]) by
ixmail8.ix.netcom.com (8.7.5/SMI-4.1/Netcom)
id OAA10170; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 14:49:48 -0700 (PDT)
Received: (from majordom at localhost) by sirius.infonex.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id
OAA28296 for cypherpunks-outgoing; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 14:41:51 -0700 (PDT)
Received: (from cpunks at localhost) by sirius.infonex.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id
OAA28278 for cypherpunks at infonex.com; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 14:41:43 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from rigel.cyberpass.net (root at rigel.infonex.com [206.170.114.3])
by sirius.infonex.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA28270 for
; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 14:41:40 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from toad.com (toad.com [140.174.2.1]) by rigel.cyberpass.net
(8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA18801 for ; Wed,
2 Jul 1997 14:39:54 -0700 (PDT)
Received: (from majordom at localhost) by toad.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA08059
for cypherpunks-unedited-outgoing; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 14:37:28 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from wombat.sk.sympatico.ca (wombat.sk.sympatico.ca
[142.165.5.136]) by toad.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA08053 for
; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 14:37:23 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from smtp.sk.sympatico.ca (lohner48.sk.sympatico.ca
[142.165.98.48]) by wombat.sk.sympatico.ca with SMTP (8.7.1/8.7.1) id
PAA16117 for cypherpunks at toad.com; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 15:34:01 -0600 (CST)
Message-Id: <199707022134.PAA16117 at wombat.sk.sympatico.ca>
Date: Wednesday, 02 Jul 97 15:37:06 EST
To: cypherpunks at toad.com
From: nobody at huge.cajones.com (BigNuts)
X-Mailer: WinSock Remailer Version ALPHA1.3B
X-Comments: -
X-Comments: This message contains no headers. If you think you see
X-Comments: something here, it's probably just the drugs kicking in.
X-Comments: Ignore it...
X-Comments: -
X-Comments: This message is NOT from .
X-Comments: It was remailed by an automated anonymous asshole.
X-Comments: Send all complaints and requests for blocking to
X-Comments: .
X-Comments: -
X-Remailer-Setup: Maximum Message Size -- None
X-Remailer-Setup: Reordering is OFF
X-Remailer-Setup: News Posting DISABLED
X-Remailer-Setup: Subject Header KEPT
X-Remailer-Setup: Logging OFF
X-Remailer-Setup: PGP and plaintext messages accepted
Subject: Re: Liberating the Bits
Sender: owner-cypherpunks at cyberpass.net
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: nobody at huge.cajones.com (BigNuts)
X-List: cypherpunks at cyberpass.net
X-Loop: cypherpunks at cyberpass.net
======== END OF HEADERS ==========
# Thanks; Bill
# Bill Stewart, +1-415-442-2215 stewarts at ix.netcom.com
# You can get PGP outside the US at ftp.ox.ac.uk/pub/crypto/pgp
# (If this is a mailing list or news, please Cc: me on replies. Thanks.)
From ssandfort at ATTMAIL.COM Wed Jul 2 16:40:08 1997
From: ssandfort at ATTMAIL.COM (Sandy Sandfort)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 07:40:08 +0800
Subject: Liberating the Bits
Message-ID: <199707022250.QAA25437@wombat.sk.sympatico.ca>
BigNuts wrote:
> I can understand that Tim May wants to hang on to the mountain of
>cash that was made possible by his company's software copyrights,
>but I am surprised that he seems so boastful about denying others
>any compensation for their ideas, talent, and labour.
I have to agree with Tim that ideas have no worth and we should
not compensate those that share them. Once anything is made public
it should be up for grabs by anyone who wants to use it for any
purpose they desire.
Enforcement of copyright laws only denies the world access to
such treasures as "Cyhpernomicon" by Toto, which I recently
found on a few websites. It had pointers to where one could
purchase the "Official CypherPunk" T-shirts and mugs, as well
as information about how to make donations to Toto's "GreenPeace"
foundation.
"All your private property is target for your enemies."
-Jefferson Airplane
There's something wrong when Kent Crispin is not
a felon under an increasing number of laws.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Sandy Sandfort | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ssandfort at ATTMAIL.COM | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA| knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments.
"Reputation Capital isn't even a speed bump to Identity highway
robbery."
From ulf at fitug.de Wed Jul 2 16:51:18 1997
From: ulf at fitug.de (Ulf =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=F6ller?=)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 07:51:18 +0800
Subject: Jeff's Side of the Story.
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:
I agree that there has been a certain stagnation, but I think things
are going up again -- despite of the recent attack.
There are three reliable nym servers in operation (nym.alias.net,
weasel.owl.de, and redneck), and I understand that people are working
on an improved system. There are at least three mail2news gateways,
and Mixmaster remailers in at least four different countries (6 in the
US, two in Germany, one each in the Netherlands, Canada and the UK,
and two at unknown locations). Four of these have started operation
last month -- hopefully others will follow.
Not to forget the Geoff Keating's remailer applet, and a new web page
with remailer statistics and reliability information that will be
announced soon.
Mixmaster 2.0.4, which is in beta test at four remailers, has the
option to forward messages to a randomly selected remailer if used as
the last hop (as Kent describes it, but it is known in advance whether
a remailer will deliver a message directly, to avoid mail being
bounced around infinitely.) Version 2.0.4 will be released soon; see
http://www.thur.de/ulf/mix/ for information about the current beta.
Cypherpunk remailers have been in operation for five years now. The
remailer network has survived attacks by the Church of Scientology and
by others. The recent incidents are annoyig, but there is no reason
for dispair because of a bunch of bozos. As our friend Paul Strassman
put it: "Conclusion: Anonymous re-mailers are here to stay. Like in
the case of many virulent diseases, there is very little a free
society can do to prohibit travel or exposure to sources of
infection."
Tim May wrote:
>At 7:40 AM -0700 7/2/97, Kent Crispin wrote:
>
>>This probably has been suggested 20 years ago, but wouldn't Jeff's
>>problem have been solved if the following slight modification were
>>made to the algorithm: If you are the last remailer in a chain, then
>>with probability p you pick another randomly choosen remailer to send
>>through. If p is 1 end user mail would never come from you; if p is
>>0.5 then half the time you send the mail on one more step. The end
>>user, then, can never be sure of which remailer will ultimately
>>deliver the message.
>...
>
>This general sort of thing has been discussed...though not 20 years ago! :-0
>
>I don't know about this particular mathematical algorithm, but things
>generally like it.
>
>Long before a remailer shuts down, he should certainly adopt a strategy
>like this. Sending "his" traffic through randomly selected other remailers
>is certainly an option. (Any remailer can at any point insert additional
>hops, or even chains of hops, merely be addressing them correctly. Of
>course, the "original" (which may not be the real original, of course, as
>other remailers may have done the same thing) needs to "get back on track,"
>else the decryptions won't work. But this is all a simple problem.
>
>I don't know what gets discussed on the "remailer operators list," not
>being on it, but it sure seems to me that remailers have stagnated, and
>that some of the robust methods of reducing attacks on any particular
>remailer are not being used.
>
>--Tim May
>
>There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws.
>Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!"
>---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
>Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
>tcmay at got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
>W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
>Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments.
>"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."
From ulf at fitug.de Wed Jul 2 17:03:34 1997
From: ulf at fitug.de (Ulf =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=F6ller?=)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 08:03:34 +0800
Subject: Cooper/Birman message service / IBM's anonymous remailer
Message-ID:
I have been pointed to a paper that addresses the problem of receiving
messages anonymously without using a return path:
David A. Cooper, Kenneth P. Birman: Preserving Privacy in a Network of
Mobile Computers. IEEE symposium on Security and Privacy, May 1995.
http://cs-tr.cs.cornell.edu/TR/CORNELLCS:TR95-1490
Their solution is similar to the one recently described by Matt Ghio
on cypherpunks.
Many of you sure are aware of the BABEL anonymous remailer developed
by Ceki G�lc� and Gene Tsudik of IBM Zurich, but I have not seen it
mentioned here.
Their proposal for return paths is a significant improvement over
cypherpunk-style reply blocks, but I still think that return addresses
should be provided via message pools or similar means, while the mix
net is used only to send messages anonymously.
The paper, which is cited in the papers on Crowds and Onion Routing,
contains a well thought-out section motivatiting the use of anonymous
e-mail.
Ceki G�lc�, Gene Tsudik: Mixing Email with BABEL. Proceedings of the
Symposium on Network and Distributed Systems Security (SNDSS '96).
http://http://www.isi.edu/~gts/paps/gt95.ps.gz
From dlv at bwalk.dm.com Wed Jul 2 17:06:21 1997
From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 08:06:21 +0800
Subject: Interesting anonymous off-shore banking ad
Message-ID:
I just came across the following ad on Usenet.
For all I know this could be an El Federales troll.
I'm reposting it because I thought it might be of interest. I know
nothing more about it.
From: OMG-OFFSHORE
Newsgroups: alt.business.home.pc,alt.business.offshore,alt.business.import-exp
xt,alt.business.misc,misc.entrepreneurs,can.atlantic.biz,misc.forsale.non-comp
xtr,biz.next.newprod,biz.marketplace.non-computer,biz.americast,biz.comp,biz.c
xt.misc,biz.marketplace.international,biz.marketplace,biz.misc,biz.newgroup,bi
xtomp.services,can.atlantic.forsale,can.atlantic.general,can.com.misc,misc.inv
xt.marketplace,alt.internet.commerce,biz.univel.misc
Subject: ANONYMOUS BANKING!
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 21:37:52 +0200
http://www.theoffice.net/omg
We have updated our site!
START YOUR OWN OFFSHORE BANK!
Unlimited possibilities! Visit our site for more info.
You will be able to set up your offshore bank for less
than $10.000. The bank is registered in a major European
country. No additional capital or qualification requirements.
OFFSHORE BANKACCOUNT & CREDITCARD
*No bank reference required
*No minimum opening deposit
*No creditchecks
TOTALLY ANONYMOUS BANKACCOUNTS
*Not even the bank will know who you are
*No ID required for cash withdrawals
TOTALLY ANONYMOUS COMPANIES & CORPORATE BANKACCOUNTS
*Your name will not show up anywhere
*Complete with corporate bankaccount
ACCEPT CREDITCARDS
*No Business history required
*No monthly minimum
*Not restricted to the United States
*Mail order & Internet businesses accepted
Visit our site at http://www.theoffice.net/omg
--
********************************************************************
OMG-OFFSHORE INC.
Offshore bank accounts * Offshore company formations * 2nd Passports
http://www.theoffice.net/omg mailto:omg at theoffice.net
********************************************************************
(As our Okrainian colleagues put it, "Za sho kupyv, za to prodav". -DV)
---
Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps
From dlv at bwalk.dm.com Wed Jul 2 17:09:22 1997
From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 08:09:22 +0800
Subject: They want your keys
Message-ID: <4Bc99D2w165w@bwalk.dm.com>
A former federal organized-crime prosecutor in Los angeles has pleaded guilty
to three felony charges in a scandal involving death threats, hundreds of
thousands of dollars' worth of fraud and the acceptance of cash payments
from defendants.
The former prosecutor, Andrew Pitt, 39, faces between 24 and 30 months in a
federal prison. Last month Pitt filed a sworn statement admitting, among other
things, that he had taken $98,000 from one infrmer facing criminal charges
and $35,000 from another. He said he then recommended probation, instead of
a prison sentence, for the first informer and repeatedly asked that the second
informer be given additional time at large before reporting to prison. In
addition Pitt admitted taking $33,000 from an illegal stock deal and transferr
it to his own account.
But Securities and Exchanges commission charged that Pitt also obtained at
least $400,000 in illegal profits by manipulating stock in a company he
controlled while serving as a prosecutor. And federal officials also charged
that Pitt was associated with a group of stock swindlers who went to Montreal
in 1995 with $350,000 to bribe people described in an indictment as "belived
to be" Quebec government officials.
A former assistant Los Angeles district attorney, Pitt was hired in 1988 as a
prosecutor with a federal organized-crime task force The task force was
merged the following year with the U.S. attorney's office. Pitt was the lead
prosecutor in a high-profile case lining organized crime to the recording
business.
---
Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps
From stewarts at ix.netcom.com Wed Jul 2 17:18:23 1997
From: stewarts at ix.netcom.com (Bill Stewart)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 08:18:23 +0800
Subject: Degaussing
In-Reply-To: <19970702021749.17094.qmail@squirrel.owl.de>
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19970702160205.0310cb98@popd.ix.netcom.com>
>> Could someone please point me to a FAQ or somesuch about degaussing
>> magnetic media? Thank you!
> http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/secure_del.html
Thanks for posting a marvelous reference on erasing media.
Technology changes have a substantial effect on what's
adequate and what's not. Back in the mid-late 80s,
when I was a tool of the military-industrial complex,
we had the offical rules for declassifying media;
I think they were from Army Reg 380-380.
For disk drives and magtapes, you had the choice of
physical destruction, running an NSA-approved overwrite program,
or using an NSA-approved BF magnet for degaussing.
We didn't have an approved program for Vax UNIX,
not that I would have trusted it to clean mapped-out bad sectors,
and any magnet that could suck the bits off a hard disk
was bigger than I was going to allow near my computers
or mag tape collection, thank you very much.
Floppy disks make a satisfying squooshy sound in a shredder;
remember to take the cardboard jacket off the floppy first.
Reeling out 9-track tape into a shredder is boring, but works.
I was no longer around when they sandblasted the RM05 packs,
but the sysadmin after me had a good time doing it,
and instead of the usual head-crashed RM05 platter on her wall,
she had one that was sandblasted real clean :-)
For memory, you needed to run an NSA-approved program
on your machine that would overwrite each byte three (?) times;
the trick was making sure your operating system would let you
get at everything, and of course moving the program while it
was running so it wouldn't overwrite itself.
I don't know if anyone remembered to do that after decommissioning
the VAX; we didn't do it when switching between the classified
operating system diskpacks and the VMS maintenance system,
but we still maintained physical control of the system so it was OK.
Technology changes make a lot of difference in how you operate;
When we were using Vaxen with large RM05 removable disks,
we'd keep the main copy of the operating system up and running,
and needed to pay a lot of attention to security (in spite of most
of our users having the root password :-), and the disk packs
took up lots of space in the safe. Later we started using PCs,
and any special project that didn't want to run on the main Vax
just kept a few floppies in the safe, or if it had a hard disk,
they could put the whole PC in the safe. With Sun workstations,
we switched over to using shoebox disks, which were very convenient...
Now if I were in that business, I suppose I'd use Jazz drives,
or the large Syquest drives, and keep the operating system
on a read only hard drive...
# Thanks; Bill
# Bill Stewart, +1-415-442-2215 stewarts at ix.netcom.com
# You can get PGP outside the US at ftp.ox.ac.uk/pub/crypto/pgp
# (If this is a mailing list or news, please Cc: me on replies. Thanks.)
From tcmay at got.net Wed Jul 2 17:43:12 1997
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 08:43:12 +0800
Subject: Liberating the Bits
Message-ID: <33BAF064.B56@got.net>
BigNuts wrote:
> > On Tue, 1 Jul 1997, Tim May wrote:
> >
> > > Technology liberates the bits.
>
> Tim gave excellent information on how one can go about using
> technology to enjoy the fruits of other people's labour without
> contributing toward the survival of those producing the things
> he enjoys.
Anything that isn't nailed down, is mine.
Anything that I can pry loose, isn't nailed down.
> When I originally came up with the concept of BlackNet and
> anonymous remailers, I foresaw that my invention of Public Key
> Cryptography might help make it possible for ordinary people to reap
> the benefits of other peoples' ideas and hard work, without doing
> anything to contribute toward the survival of creative, productive
> people.
Big deal. I was the first one to write about fire and the wheel
but you don't see me constantly reminding people about it.
> I can understand that Tim May wants to hang on to the mountain of
> cash that was made possible by his company's software copyrights,
> but I am surprised that he seems so boastful about denying others
> any compensation for their ideas, talent, and labour.
Hey! I got mine and I'm keeping it!
Just because a bunch of gullible people believed my company's claim
that we owned the results of our creative ideas doesn't mean that I
have to be a sucker, too.
People have no more right to deny others the free use of their
creative ideas than they do to deny others the free use of their
identities.
Technology allows me to use other people's idea capital and their
reputation capital without compensating them and any attempt to deny
me my right to do so is an infringement on my freedom.
Everything in the world is up for grabs and those who have the most
firepower get to take the goodies home. I have the latest in guns
and digital technology, so I can get and keep a lot of goodies.
{BTW, if you grab all of the candy bags from all of the children
out Halloweening it doesn't matter if they don't come back next
year because there will always be new suckers to take their place.}
Theres something wrong when I'm a forger under an increasing number of
laws.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May | identity anarchy: encryption, digital
money,
tcmay at got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous identity, digital identities,
zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | identity, reputations, identity markets,
Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black eyes, collapse of identity.
"Personal Identity isn't even a speed bump on the reputation capital
highway."
From frissell at panix.com Wed Jul 2 18:00:45 1997
From: frissell at panix.com (frissell at panix.com)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 09:00:45 +0800
Subject: NRA and National Online Records Check bullshit
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19970702205025.03d40f54@panix.com>
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
At 05:32 PM 7/2/97 +0000, Paul Bradley wrote:
>No, speech or practice of religion are not of the same ilk as the right
>to own firearms, I am definitely on thin ice here, and I admit I am not
>entirely certain of my own perspective, BUT I cannot see how someone
>convicted of armed robbery should be allowed the right to own firearms
again.
>A person convicted of a violent armed crime is just not in the same
>league as an innocent citizen, and should not have the same rights.
Quite simple. Eliminate prison, encourage everyone to carry weapons, wait 6
months, then well behaved people will predominate and many of the maladjusted
will find themselves well-adjusted or dead.
Rough 6 months. Try to spend it in the South of France.
This may be the de facto eventuality as nanotech develops. If the soccer
moms are afraid of assault rifles, how will they react to the nastiness you
will be able to gin up from you desktop fab station in a few years.
DCF
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From kent at songbird.com Wed Jul 2 18:18:40 1997
From: kent at songbird.com (Kent Crispin)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 09:18:40 +0800
Subject: NRA and National Online Records Check bullshit
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID: <19970702180331.11847@bywater.songbird.com>
On Wed, Jul 02, 1997 at 08:50:25PM -0400, frissell at panix.com wrote:
>At 05:32 PM 7/2/97 +0000, Paul Bradley wrote:
>>No, speech or practice of religion are not of the same ilk as the right
>>to own firearms, I am definitely on thin ice here, and I admit I am not
>>entirely certain of my own perspective, BUT I cannot see how someone
>>convicted of armed robbery should be allowed the right to own firearms
>again.
>>A person convicted of a violent armed crime is just not in the same
>>league as an innocent citizen, and should not have the same rights.
>
>Quite simple. Eliminate prison, encourage everyone to carry weapons, wait 6
>months, then well behaved people will predominate and many of the maladjusted
>will find themselves well-adjusted or dead.
Along with a far larger number of well-adjusted innocents. And the
maladjusted who aren't dead will be in power.
>Rough 6 months. Try to spend it in the South of France.
>
>This may be the de facto eventuality as nanotech develops. If the soccer
>moms are afraid of assault rifles, how will they react to the nastiness you
>will be able to gin up from you desktop fab station in a few years.
No question about it, the only hope for the human race is wide
dispersal. Everybody should join the L5 society, if it still exists,
or become a terrorist Luddite, and bomb us back to the stone age.
But the Earth is doomed, anyway, in 5 billion years. And we have
either the grand crunch or the heat death of the universe to contend
with after that. Hopeless.
"The root of greed is fear."
"There is something right when Kent Crispin is not a felon under an
increasing number of laws."
--
Kent Crispin "No reason to get excited",
kent at songbird.com the thief he kindly spoke...
PGP fingerprint: B1 8B 72 ED 55 21 5E 44 61 F4 58 0F 72 10 65 55
http://songbird.com/kent/pgp_key.html
From ravage at ssz.com Wed Jul 2 18:18:42 1997
From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 09:18:42 +0800
Subject: Japanese Balloon Bomb Special - Info
Message-ID: <199707030052.TAA12660@einstein.ssz.com>
Hi,
During the discussion of the Japanese Balloon Bomb's and their history I
mentioned a special on the Discovery Channel (TDC). That show is 'Discover
Magazine'.
Jim Choate
TAG
ravage at ssz.com
From mnorton at cavern.uark.edu Wed Jul 2 18:19:55 1997
From: mnorton at cavern.uark.edu (Mac Norton)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 09:19:55 +0800
Subject: Liberating the Bits
In-Reply-To: <33BAF064.B56@got.net>
Message-ID:
On Wed, 2 Jul 1997, Tim May wrote:
> Hey! I got mine and I'm keeping it!
> Just because a bunch of gullible people believed my company's claim
> that we owned the results of our creative ideas doesn't mean that I
> have to be a sucker, too.
>
If you're willing to admit you got yours under false pretenses,
the rest of us would like to have it back. Now.
MacN
From nobody at REPLAY.COM Wed Jul 2 18:25:33 1997
From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 09:25:33 +0800
Subject: Jeff's Side of the Story.
Message-ID: <199707030110.DAA05747@basement.replay.com>
> > Beware... all of this is speculation, because huge.cajones was an
> > anonymous service, not even I can say with any authority that any
> > of the people named below had anything to do with the shutdown of
> > huge.cajones (or The MailMasher). However, there are a number of
> > coincidences of timing.
Who was it that used the threat of a lawsuit to shut down the
remailer?
I, for one, would be more than happy to make certain that they
receive ample opportunity to "Make $$Money$$ Fast!!" by receiving
a mountain of information as to how to do so.
Anyone who would attack a remailer is probably involved in child
pornography and drug dealing and these perverts should be exposed
for what they are.
D r . R o b e r t s
From ravage at ssz.com Wed Jul 2 18:27:45 1997
From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 09:27:45 +0800
Subject: update.328 (fwd)
Message-ID: <199707030056.TAA12725@einstein.ssz.com>
Forwarded message:
>From physnews at aip.org Wed Jul 2 19:12:35 1997
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 97 11:02:31 EDT
From: physnews at aip.org (AIP listserver)
Message-Id: <9707021502.AA12498 at aip.org>
To: physnews-mailing at aip.org
Subject: update.328
PHYSICS NEWS UPDATE
The American Institute of Physics Bulletin of Physics News
Number 328 July 2, 1997 by Phillip F. Schewe and Ben Stein
THE MARS PATHFINDER spacecraft arrives July 4 at its
destination where, after firing retrorockets and deploying a
parachute and numerous airbags, it will bounce to a halt on what
was probably an ancient floodplain. After this, its missionary
rover will venture forth to taste rocks and make movies. The
local weather forecast calls for blue skies and wispy clouds with a
small chance of a dust storm (currently 600 miles to the south),
in which case the sky will be pink. In September another craft,
the Mars Global Surveyor, will take up orbit around Mars. (For
the latest update, view the JPL website: mpfwww.jpl.nasa.gov/)
STORING AN OPTIMUM AMOUNT OF INFORMATION IN A
PHOTON or any other quantum particle is possible even in the
presence of noise, researchers have concluded (B. Schumacher et
al., Physical Review A, July 1997; A.S. Holevo, upcoming in
IEEE Transactions on Information Theory). A photon has many
different quantum states, each of which can be made to represent a
different digit. Furthermore, one can store many digits
simultaneously in a single photon by putting it into a combination
or "superposition" of many states. However, quantum mechanics
prevents a measuring device from perfectly distinguishing between
all these different states. Previously, physicists discovered that the
maximum amount of information that can be read from a photon
can be no greater than the amount of entropy, or disorder, it
acquires when a range of quantum states is created to represent
different digits. Now, the researchers show that this upper limit can
be reached, even in a noisy environment, by utilizing several
strategies, such as employing only those quantum states that are
most distinguishable. These findings provide insights into how little
energy is required to store a message. (For more details, go to
www.aip.org/physnews/preview; Ben Schumacher, Kenyon
College, 614-427-5832)
HOLLOW NANOPARTICLE LUBRICANTS, consisting of
fullerene-like tungsten disulfide balls, have performed well in
friction and durability tests, and may be superior to other solid-state
lubricants, which usually come in powdered form. The 100-nm
WS2 balls (much smaller than conventional powder grains, microns
across) are nested like some carbon nanotubes, but flexible. This,
their chemical inertness, and the tendency to roll rather than slide
when pushed, should make the nanoparticles a good lubricant at the
micron scale, or as an additive in other lubricants. Scientists
working at the Weizmann Institute and at the Center for
Technological Education in Israel are now able to make gram
amounts of the lubricant. (L. Rapoport et al., Nature, 19 June
1997.)
ONE MEASURE OF A NATION'S SCIENTIFIC STRENGTH is
the number of papers it generates and the citations those papers
receive. For the period 1992-96, these were the top producers of
papers in a select set of journals: US (1.3 million), UK (300,000),
Japan (281,000), and Germany (259,000). Ranked according to
citations per paper, the order becomes Switzerland (5.66), US
(5.03), Netherlands (4.46), Sweden (4.38), and UK (4.19).
The EU nations lumped together and the US each have a 36% share
of total citations. The general trend these past 15 years has been for
the US citation rate to remain high but for its citation share to give
ground to the EU and to Asian/Pacific nations. (ISI ScienceWatch,
May/June; also Nature, 5 June 1997.)
From whgiii at amaranth.com Wed Jul 2 18:29:58 1997
From: whgiii at amaranth.com (William H. Geiger III)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 09:29:58 +0800
Subject: NRA and National Online Records Check bullshit
In-Reply-To: <19970702180331.11847@bywater.songbird.com>
Message-ID: <199707030120.UAA20220@mailhub.amaranth.com>
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
In <19970702180331.11847 at bywater.songbird.com>, on 07/02/97
at 06:03 PM, Kent Crispin said:
>"There is something right when Kent Crispin is not a felon under an
>increasing number of laws."
Just goes to show that you can goose-step with the best of them Kent.
- --
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0
Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
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From ATU5713 at compuserve.com Wed Jul 2 19:37:05 1997
From: ATU5713 at compuserve.com (Alan Tu)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 10:37:05 +0800
Subject: What are the available anonymous remailers?
Message-ID: <199707022153_MC2-19AF-9D8A@compuserve.com>
Hi all,
I saw the address for this list in Jeff Licquia's PGP FAQ. I haven't
subscribed to it heard, as the FAQ said traffic on this list could be 30-40
messages a day. As I'm attempting to cut down the time I spend on
CompuServe...
Unfortunately, that means if you want to get a message to me, you'll have
to send it to me directly, you can't send it to the list. My address is
atu5713 at compuserve.com
My public key is included in this message.
Anyway, here comes my real question. I am interested in finding an
easy-to-use no-nonsense anonymous remailer. But anon.penet.fi seems to
have shut down. I sent mail to ping at anon.penet.fi and help at anon.penet.fi
and I got a undeliverable message. Could someone point me to a remailer?
Sincerely,
Alan Tu
Type Bits/KeyID Date User ID
pub 1024/E5D915E1 1997/04/27 Alan Tu
Alan Tu <102534.2165 at compuserve.com>
-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
Version: 2.6.3i
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From tcmay at got.net Wed Jul 2 19:38:25 1997
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 10:38:25 +0800
Subject: Test 3
Message-ID: <199707030216.UAA19578@wombat.sk.sympatico.ca>
Test name/spaces no quotes
From tcmay at got.net Wed Jul 2 20:25:23 1997
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 11:25:23 +0800
Subject: Test 4
Message-ID: <199707030253.UAA24549@wombat.sk.sympatico.ca>
Test / multiple posts
Subject:
Returned mail: unknown mailer error 2
Date:
Thu, 3 Jul 1997 03:33:44 +0200 (MET DST)
From:
Mail Delivery Subsystem
To:
The original message was received at Thu, 3 Jul 1997 03:33:42 +0200 (MET
DST)
from wombat.sk.sympatico.ca [142.165.5.136]
----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
"|/usr/home/replay/.mixmaster/mixmaster -R |
/usr/home/replay/.remailer/remailer || exit 75"
(expanded from: )
----- Transcript of session follows -----
Cannot fork
554 "|/usr/home/replay/.mixmaster/mixmaster -R |
/usr/home/replay/.remailer/remailer || exit 75"... unknown mailer error
2
Cannot fork
----- Original message follows -----
Return-Path:
Received: from wombat.sk.sympatico.ca (wombat.sk.sympatico.ca
[142.165.5.136])
by basement.replay.com (8.8.5/RePlay, Inc.) with ESMTP id
DAA15223
for ; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 03:33:42 +0200 (MET
DST)
Received: from default (lohner31.sk.sympatico.ca [142.165.98.31]) by
wombat.sk.sympatico.ca with SMTP (8.7.1/8.7.1) id TAA13669 for
; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 19:30:20 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <33BB013D.1242 at sk.sympatico.ca>
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 1997 19:32:45 -0600
From: Rabid Wombat
Reply-To: wombat at bc.sympatico.ca
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-SYMPA (Win95; U)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: remailer at REPLAY.COM
Subject: Kent finally comes around / Re: NRA and National Online Records
Check bullshit
References:
<3.0.2.32.19970702205025.03d40f54 at panix.com>
<19970702180331.11847 at bywater.songbird.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
;;
Anon-To: cypherpunks at toad.com
Kent Crispin wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 02, 1997 at 08:50:25PM -0400, frissell at panix.com wrote:
> >Quite simple. Eliminate prison, encourage everyone to carry weapons, wait 6
> >months, then well behaved people will predominate and many of the maladjusted
> >will find themselves well-adjusted or dead.
>
> Along with a far larger number of well-adjusted innocents. And the
> maladjusted who aren't dead will be in power.
I believe you meant to say "will _remain_ in power."
> No question about it, the only hope for the human race is wide
> dispersal. Everybody should join the L5 society, if it still exists,
> or become a terrorist Luddite, and bomb us back to the stone age.
Are you finally coming around to a cypherpunk frame of mind, Kent,
or is this a cheap political ploy to get the "Cypherpunk of the Year"
award?
> But the Earth is doomed, anyway, in 5 billion years. And we have
> either the grand crunch or the heat death of the universe to contend
> with after that. Hopeless.
The religious right is working to get a law passed to prevent this
from happening, since it is evolutionary hocus-pocus that goes against
belief in God as the Creator. The law will no doubt be nullified by
the Supreme Court as violating the separation of church and state.
> Kent Crispin "No reason to get excited",
> kent at songbird.com Tim May, he kindly spoke...
TruthMonger
From dshipman at ewol.com Wed Jul 2 20:36:51 1997
From: dshipman at ewol.com (Dave Shipman)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 11:36:51 +0800
Subject: Liberating the Bits
Message-ID: <19970703032138015.AAA540@xxx>
At 07:59 PM 7/2/97 -0500, you wrote:
>On Wed, 2 Jul 1997, Tim May wrote:
>
>> Hey! I got mine and I'm keeping it!
>> Just because a bunch of gullible people believed my company's claim
>> that we owned the results of our creative ideas doesn't mean that I
>> have to be a sucker, too.
>>
>
>If you're willing to admit you got yours under false pretenses,
>the rest of us would like to have it back. Now.
>
>MacN
>
Wow... and not on AOL.
Come on guys, from now on would you attach a midi laugh track to your jokes
so the humor deprived will know its a spoof?
dLs
-----------------------------------------------
From stewarts at ix.netcom.com Wed Jul 2 20:52:19 1997
From: stewarts at ix.netcom.com (Bill Stewart)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 11:52:19 +0800
Subject: random remailer forwarding (Was: Jeff's Side of the Story.)
In-Reply-To: <19970702100000.40925@bywater.songbird.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19970702174350.0311cbf4@popd.ix.netcom.com>
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
At 03:32 PM 7/2/97 -0400, Ryan Anderson wrote:
>Well, to make the remailers more intelligent, have them count incoming
>mail from the list of remailers participating in the system. (either that
>or a rate) when one remailer seems to be sending much more mail than the
>others (which shouldn't happen if all remailers are randomly distributing
>the mail to each other) you automatically do the random forward to
>another remailer.
That's a way to guarantee that the remailers that aren't working
get more of the traffic.....
:-)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0
Charset: noconv
iQBVAwUBM7r1xfthU5e7emAFAQHsCwH/eB0TRsFrGQZEmbeVmjENFRdFgPjAVJ3+
g5gwuraubYuU4XRtv7n6H/RDpfJLeljfknP4CYGQa5PTUqxTqk8FVw==
=a3Fs
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
# Thanks; Bill
# Bill Stewart, +1-415-442-2215 stewarts at ix.netcom.com
# You can get PGP outside the US at ftp.ox.ac.uk/pub/crypto/pgp
# (If this is a mailing list or news, please Cc: me on replies. Thanks.)
From nobody at REPLAY.COM Wed Jul 2 21:02:20 1997
From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 12:02:20 +0800
Subject: PGP security problems?
Message-ID: <199707030343.FAA29463@basement.replay.com>
I saw this on another mailing list and was wondering if anyone has any
information as to what kind of security problems PGP had.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Due to security problems Pretty Good Privacy, Inc., will be using
a new signing key in our email correspondence, with an effective
date of July 1, 1997.
The new key can be downloaded from our keyserver at:
http://www.pgp.com
Any PGP Corporate key other than the following should be regarded
as having been revoked:
pub 1024/6C309BDF 1997/06/30
Pretty Good Privacy, Inc. Corporate Key
All employee keys with pgp.com addresses should also be regarded
as having been revoked unless signed with the new Corporate Key.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0
Charset: noconv
iQA/AwUBM7sc7UlfPVhsMJvfEQJMIACgwqhazDJfN6WqX2HBrq/klG0opmgAoOi6
btA8EoPROpqc9VA2V9fP1Nou
=v0eg
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
From webpromo at compuserve.com Thu Jul 3 13:41:31 1997
From: webpromo at compuserve.com (webpromo at compuserve.com)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 13:41:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Adults ONLY!!!
Message-ID:
Adult Videos at DEEP Discount Prices !!!
Check out what we have at our SUMMER BLOWOUT SALE !!!
A Huge Selection of the best XXX Videos !!!
Don't miss our offer for FREE videos !!!
CLICK HERE !!!
http://www.sex-guide.com/videostore
From shamrock at netcom.com Wed Jul 2 22:45:36 1997
From: shamrock at netcom.com (Lucky Green)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 13:45:36 +0800
Subject: Degaussing
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:
The Cypherpunks Shooting Club welcomes you each Sunday immediately
following the monthly CP meeting. Except this August, when certain stalwart
members of the club will be at HIP'97. :-)
-- Lucky Green PGP encrypted mail preferred
On Wed, 2 Jul 1997, Alan wrote:
> On Tue, 1 Jul 1997, Bill Frantz wrote:
>
> >
> > At 10:02 PM -0700 7/1/97, Alan Olsen wrote:
> > >At 02:17 AM 7/2/97 -0000, Secret Squirrel wrote:
> > >>
> > >>Could someone please point me to a FAQ or somesuch about degaussing
> > >>magnetic media? Thank you!
> > >
> > >Electromagnetic pulse. You want something as strong as possible. About 10
> > >megatons should generate a big enough pulse.
> >
> > It works better if you also expose it to the heat and blast. :-)
> >
> > In all seriousness, complete physical destruction of the media is the only
> > sure technique. Lucky Green's sandblasting sounds like it should work
> > well. Melting it into slag should also work.
>
> That reminds me... I have some old drives I need to take down to the
> shooting range. (I want to make them an example to the other drives...)
>
> Sounds like a Cypherpunk project to me. ]:>
>
> alano at teleport.com | "Those who are without history are doomed to retype it."
>
>
From prz at pgp.com Wed Jul 2 23:16:46 1997
From: prz at pgp.com (Philip R. Zimmerman)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 14:16:46 +0800
Subject: PGP security problems?
Message-ID: <199707030557.XAA20987@wombat.sk.sympatico.ca>
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
The recent spate of bogus keys uploaded to the PGP keyserver
(with subsequent posts forged using our employees names showing
up on mailing lists and newsgroups) is particularly troubling
given the fact that they appear to be coming from within the
ranks of the cypherpunks.
While I still support the aims of the cypherpunks list, I must
confess to being somewhat disillusioned by these attacks by long
time members of the cypherpunks list. Even more troubling is the
fact that there is evidence of the attacks being designed to aide
one of PGP, Inc.'s competitors--Stronghold.
I suppose I should have realized long ago that Gilmore
and Sameer were in collusion to turn the cypherpunks
against PGP in order to corner the encryption market for c2net's
back-door, GAK'ed product. Although PGP's successful effort
to get the Huge Cajones anonymous remailer shut down has helped
to minimize the damage to our reputation, we may have to take
action against other remailers, as well.
I wish I had listened to the warnings of the late Dale Thorn,
Toto, and Dimitri Vulis before it had come to this.
In conclusion, I would ask everyone to be wary when receiving
messages purporting to be from PGP, Inc. or from any of our
employees.
It is inevitable that some gullible fools will be taken in by
the forgeries, but simple precautions such as checking the
key signatures against the keys on our keyserver and perusing
the message headers to determine the source of the email should
aide in spotting forgeries. (You should be particularly wary
of any messages originating from Canadian ISP's, as that seems
to be the natural habitat of Mongers of every sort.)
Philip R. Zimmerman
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0
Charset: noconv
iQA/AwUBM7s2017MfpC8gEO7EQI7pACg0285HGGqLevqRTFZnzpB59PS8yoAn1Wp
0b7D8YcrmSn9VbjmAq55nKWx
=fRuw
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
From nobody at REPLAY.COM Wed Jul 2 23:18:20 1997
From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 14:18:20 +0800
Subject: PGP security problems?
Message-ID: <199707030551.HAA15022@basement.replay.com>
Anonymous wrote:
> I saw this on another mailing list and was wondering if anyone has any
information as to what kind of security problems PGP had.
The following appeared on several newsgroups I belong to.
---------
[Forward]
---------
From: Will Price
Newsgroups:
alt.privacy.anon-server,alt.fan.john-hinkley,alt.religion.tantric-sex,alt.anonymous-assholes,alt.cypherpunks,news.admin.net-abuse.therapy
Subject: Security Problems at PGP
Followup-To:
alt.cypherpunks
Date: 2 Jul 1997 20:02:22 GMT
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Anonymous wrote:
> Does anyone have the inside scoop on the security problems at PGP?
The problems encountered had to do with bogus keys of
PGP employees being uploaded to the server. This has
been rectified by the creation of a new PGP Corporate
Key with which all employee keys must now be signed in
order to be considered valid.
The new PGP Corporate key, dated July 30, 1997, is now
available on the PGP, Inc. keyserver.
Will Price
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0
Charset: noconv
iQA/AwUBM7slnQolbA5ByKtoEQJNNgCgyK89QB7xQiwhgPUeoB5gMqc2BmEAoJhO
14xzY3rKoguftPd0qYWZsTyx
=+X4g
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
From barrons at WSJ.DOWJONES.COM Thu Jul 3 14:31:18 1997
From: barrons at WSJ.DOWJONES.COM (Barrons Online)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 14:31:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Important Announcement for Barron's Online Subscribers
Message-ID:
Dear Barron's Online subscriber:
I'd like to make you aware of some important changes coming to Barron's
Online in the next few weeks.
Barron's Online is forming an alliance with The Wall Street Journal
Interactive Edition, its sister Web publication from Dow Jones & Co.
Barron's Online, the Interactive Journal and the soon-to-be-unveiled
SmartMoney Interactive are pooling their efforts to provide investors with
the Web's most comprehensive collection of business and markets news,
commentary, financial information and personal finance tools -- all at a
single subscription price.
Beginning July 25, access to Barron's Online will be by paid subscription
only. The price is $49 per year. But print subscribers to Barron's will be
eligible for an introductory rate of only $29 per year.
What does this mean for you?
Barron's Online will still offer the key features you've enjoyed in the
past, including our exclusive Weekday Extra columns. One noteworthy change:
Barron's Online Dossiers will be replaced by Interactive Journal Company
Briefing Books, which we expect you'll find equally useful.
You get a chance to experience the combined offering on July 25. You can
wait until then to register, if you wish. After July 25, the first time you
come to Barron's Online you'll be asked to re-register and provide us with a
credit card. Your card won't be charged until two weeks later, so you'll
have a chance to look around. If you're not satisfied, you can cancel your
account and you won't be charged.
But here's an opportunity to extend that free trial. Register for the
Interactive Journal now or any time before July 15 via a special offer link
on the Barron's Online site, and your first eight weeks will be free. Cancel
anytime before the eight weeks expire, and there's no charge. With free
access for eight weeks, you'll have a chance to explore the Interactive
Journal now and, in a few weeks, check out the revamped Barron's Online.
For more information, and to receive the eight-week free offer, see
.
We're sure you'll agree that the combined power of these Web sites will be
worth more than the subscription price we're charging. After all, more than
100,000 people already are subscribing to the Interactive Journal alone.
Best regards,
Howard Gold Neil Budde
Editor Editor
Barron's Online The Wall Street Journal Interactive Edition
http://www.barrons.com/wsj_frame.html
========================================================================
If you do not wish to continue receiving these email alerts,
send email to: stopmkt at lists.wsj.com
If you have other questions, please call our customer service group at
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======================================================================
From snow at smoke.suba.com Wed Jul 2 23:37:54 1997
From: snow at smoke.suba.com (snow)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 14:37:54 +0800
Subject: Degaussing
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID: <199707030629.BAA00259@smoke.suba.com>
> The Cypherpunks Shooting Club welcomes you each Sunday immediately
> following the monthly CP meeting. Except this August, when certain stalwart
> members of the club will be at HIP'97. :-)
What date will the meeting be?
From tien at well.com Wed Jul 2 23:56:08 1997
From: tien at well.com (Lee Tien)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 14:56:08 +0800
Subject: Crypto Law Survey updated
In-Reply-To: <9A131B1A13@frw3.kub.nl>
Message-ID:
There is a summary of the Canadian crypto rules, by Stewart Baker, at the
Steptoe and Johnson site: http://www.steptoe.com/encryp.htm
I skimmed it today and it seems that Canada is considerably more liberal.
There are interesting issues regarding U.S.-originated content.
Lee
At 9:19 AM -0700 7/2/97, Bert-Jaap Koops wrote:
>I have just updated my survey of existing and envisaged cryptography
>laws and regulations.
>See the Crypto Law Survey at
>http://cwis.kub.nl/~frw/people/koops/lawsurvy.htm
>
>This update includes:
>- update on Australia (Walsh report), Germany (Interior Ministry
> opinion), Sweden (IT commission report), US (government bill
> amended, Kerrey-McCain bill, SAFE act amended and passed House
> committees, czar travel FOIA request)
>- clarification on Singapore (import, domestic), Japan (government
>cannot choose)
>- URLs added to Belgium (law proposals), Canada (export), UK
>(cyber-rights report)
>
>Comments are as always welcomed.
>
>Kind regards,
>Bert-Jaap
>
From shamrock at netcom.com Thu Jul 3 00:04:44 1997
From: shamrock at netcom.com (Lucky Green)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 15:04:44 +0800
Subject: Degaussing
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19970702234803.00716004@netcom10.netcom.com>
At 01:29 AM 7/3/97 -0500, snow wrote:
>> The Cypherpunks Shooting Club welcomes you each Sunday immediately
>> following the monthly CP meeting. Except this August, when certain stalwart
>> members of the club will be at HIP'97. :-)
>
> What date will the meeting be?
The regular CP meeting is always on the second Saturday of the month.
The meeting at HIP will be the same day: August 9 at the HIP campground.
I'll be the guy in the black BDU with the "L. Green" name tag, wearing a
Nomex balaklava. :-)
--Lucky
--Lucky Green
PGP encrypted mail preferred.
DES is dead! Please join in breaking RC5-56.
http://rc5.distributed.net/
From turby at pgp.com Thu Jul 3 00:34:11 1997
From: turby at pgp.com (Carolyn Turbyfill)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 15:34:11 +0800
Subject: PGP security problems?
Message-ID: <199707030715.BAA26652@wombat.sk.sympatico.ca>
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
The email forgeries using bogus PGP keys to give the appearance
that the messages are from PGP, Inc. and our employees are the
result of a sick, twisted mind.
Perhaps someone thinks they are being funny, but I, for one, am
not amused.
In order for the internet to function in a coherent, meaningful
manner, people need to be able to have assurance that the email
they receive accurately reflects the true source of the message
and be able to verify the identity of the writer by checking
for a valid signature.
I urge the person or persons doing this to stop. Immediately!
After I send this message to the cypherpunks list and receive
it back in my email, I'm going to check the signature and the
headers on it and if it turns out to be a forgery, like the
others, then I'm going to be really, really mad.
Carolyn Turbyfill
"I'm not wearing any panties."
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0
Charset: noconv
iQA/AwUBM7tNBu5XWImkXCQiEQLiggCfcJmJBkepBVEDtktoSMtTV97f0uoAoNCe
6IrX5/0nUBjpcIq24XtMFDlK
=0CHj
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
From mji at pgp.com Thu Jul 3 01:14:44 1997
From: mji at pgp.com (Michael J. Iannamico)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 16:14:44 +0800
Subject: PGP security problems?
Message-ID: <199707030758.BAA28247@wombat.sk.sympatico.ca>
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Please be advised that the message sent to the cypherpunks
list purporting to be from Carolyn Turbyfill
was a forgery.
The PGP signature on the file, apparently from Marc Briceno
may have been a forgery, as well, since
it is unlikely that Marc would know whether or not Carolyn
wears panties. It may be that the forger quite simply made
a lucky guess.
Oh! Not that I've been peeking up the women's skirts at
the office. I'm in therapy now, and all of that is behind
me. I must have just heard it from someone else in the
office.
Not that we're a bunch of perverts who sit around talking
about that kind of thing, mind you.
(I'd better shut up while I still have a job.)
Oh! I know. This message must be a forgery, too. Yes, that's
it...this message is a _forgery_! It's not me writing it,
its that sick, demented, cypherpunk forger.
I'm not backsliding. I attend all the meetings and I am
taking my medication regularly.
It's the _forger_, I tell you...the _forger_!!!
Michael J. Iannamico
"I'm feeling much better now."
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0
Charset: noconv
iQA/AwUBM7tbH2vmZC203a9iEQJjjQCg1IICgkrGCdiydWAlqjbpoxQ5YEEAoNco
CjhwCCVEz/ALHinvGNhJHvDT
=sjFj
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
From cypherpunks at Algebra.COM Thu Jul 3 01:30:10 1997
From: cypherpunks at Algebra.COM (cypherpunks at Algebra.COM)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 16:30:10 +0800
Subject: http://hipcrime.home.ml.org
Message-ID: <199707030822.BAA09194@italy.it.earthlink.net>
From pooh at efga.org Thu Jul 3 01:30:46 1997
From: pooh at efga.org (Robert A. Costner)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 16:30:46 +0800
Subject: PGP security problems?
In-Reply-To: <199707030715.BAA26652@wombat.sk.sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19970703041536.00cc566c@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>
At 01:18 AM 7/3/97 EST, Carolyn Turbyfill (probably didn't) write:
>The email forgeries using bogus PGP keys to give the appearance
>that the messages are from PGP, Inc. and our employees are the
>result of a sick, twisted mind.
While a keyserver with no authentication has a very low barrier to entry
for false authentication, the barrier is not that much higher for even a
Verisign class three verification. I've continually said that the biggest
problem with secure authentication is that secure authentication is not
possible.
I hate to see people doing such things with keyservers and keys, but we all
knew the problem existed. I wonder where the solution is.
-- Robert Costner Phone: (770) 512-8746
Electronic Frontiers Georgia mailto:pooh at efga.org
http://www.efga.org/ run PGP 5.0 for my public key
From dformosa at st.nepean.uws.edu.au Thu Jul 3 01:58:37 1997
From: dformosa at st.nepean.uws.edu.au (? the Platypus {aka David Formosa})
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 16:58:37 +0800
Subject: PGP security problems?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970703041536.00cc566c@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>
Message-ID:
On Thu, 3 Jul 1997, Robert A. Costner wrote:
[...]
> I hate to see people doing such things with keyservers and keys, but we all
> knew the problem existed. I wonder where the solution is.
Well it all depeands on what you wish to do. A simple mail back
authentacation schem would raise the barror to router and host spoofing.
Haveing ISP's sign there users public keys would also help.
Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from agraphia see the url in my header.
Never trust a country with more peaple then sheep. Buy easter bilbies.
Save the ABC Is $0.08 per day too much to pay? ex-net.scum and prouud
I'm sorry but I just don't consider 'because its yukky' a convinceing argument
From nobody at REPLAY.COM Thu Jul 3 02:12:44 1997
From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 17:12:44 +0800
Subject: Jeff's Side of the Story.
Message-ID: <199707030854.KAA07018@basement.replay.com>
nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) wrote:
>> > Beware... all of this is speculation, because huge.cajones was an
>> > anonymous service, not even I can say with any authority that any
>> > of the people named below had anything to do with the shutdown of
>> > huge.cajones (or The MailMasher). However, there are a number of
>> > coincidences of timing.
>
> Who was it that used the threat of a lawsuit to shut down the
>remailer?
> I, for one, would be more than happy to make certain that they
>receive ample opportunity to "Make $$Money$$ Fast!!" by receiving
>a mountain of information as to how to do so.
> Anyone who would attack a remailer is probably involved in child
>pornography and drug dealing and these perverts should be exposed
>for what they are.
Please see http://www.netscum.net/burnorg0.html for more info.
From philipn at pgp.com Thu Jul 3 02:14:08 1997
From: philipn at pgp.com (Philip Nathan)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 17:14:08 +0800
Subject: PGP security problems?
Message-ID: <199707030855.CAA00113@wombat.sk.sympatico.ca>
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
I've been a nervous wreck tonight, reading all of the forged
messages revealing the secrets of a number of my fellow PGP,
Inc. employees.
It is only a matter of time until the forger gets around to
me, so I might as well confess now that I've been stealing
money from the company and selling PGP, Inc. company secrets
to the competition.
I'm not proud of what I've done, but I am desperate to get
out of this madhouse.
Pantyless women, men who shine their shoes twelve times a
day to peek up the women's skirts. Spooks all over the place
and Phil Zimmerman sending Tim C. May ASCII-art slams to the
cypherpunks list (while blaming it on Dr. Vulis).
The child-pornography ring and the incessant drug dealing
within the company are bad enough, but what I find really
intolerable is the support for terrorists and the plot to
help secret government agencies rule the U.S.
Of course, if you check the cypherpunk archives, you'll
probably find that Tim May predicted all of this happening
in a post he sent to the list in '92.
Philip Nathan
There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of
laws.
Only one response to the key forgers is warranted: "Death to Everyone!"
-
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Philip Nathan | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
philipn at pgp.com | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms,
zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information
markets,
Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information
superhighway."
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0
Charset: noconv
iQA/AwUBM7tobvNv9MGSYz54EQL82QCfelOV54gMyMeSUhUM3gz3dS00TpgAoLpo
nIAXn3NpRcJZ+bzV8Cd6NNu0
=l0oJ
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
From dformosa at st.nepean.uws.edu.au Thu Jul 3 03:25:41 1997
From: dformosa at st.nepean.uws.edu.au (? the Platypus {aka David Formosa})
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 18:25:41 +0800
Subject: PGP security problems?
In-Reply-To: <199707030557.XAA20987@wombat.sk.sympatico.ca>
Message-ID:
On Thu, 3 Jul 1997, Philip R. Zimmerman wrote:
[...]
> It is inevitable that some gullible fools will be taken in by
> the forgeries,
[Claps] Very very cleaver, you almost got me there.
Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from agraphia see the url in my header.
Never trust a country with more peaple then sheep. Buy easter bilbies.
Save the ABC Is $0.08 per day too much to pay? ex-net.scum and prouud
I'm sorry but I just don't consider 'because its yukky' a convinceing argument
From cypherpunks at Algebra.COM Thu Jul 3 04:14:07 1997
From: cypherpunks at Algebra.COM (cypherpunks at Algebra.COM)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 19:14:07 +0800
Subject: http://hipcrime.home.ml.org
Message-ID: <199707031108.EAA20189@italy.it.earthlink.net>
http://hipcrime.home.ml.org
From nobody at faust.guardian.co.uk Thu Jul 3 20:11:43 1997
From: nobody at faust.guardian.co.uk (Shift Control)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 20:11:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Fancy a drink?
Message-ID: <199706271610.RAA24455@faust.guardian.co.uk>
This week, in the Pub Issue of Shift Control...
"Some pretty scary things are happening to British pubs -
apparently in the name of pleasing women. Rat and Parrot,
Slug and Lettuce, All Bar One, Wetherspoons - they all
signify the general white collarisation of the pub with
blonde wood and windows where the cheap repro mahogany
and frosted glass should be."
- Kate Spicer wonders what's wrong with the good ol' local.
"Some London pub crawls have their origins in history (the
Jack the Ripper pub crawl) or literature (the Sherlock
Holmes pub crawl), while others are just a desperate attempt
to justify a booze-up (the Monopoly board pub crawl). But
the greatest of all is the Circle Line pub crawl. It has no
discernible beginning and no discernible end. All that's
certain is that the Circle Line has 27 stations, and
somewhere near the exit of each of these is a pub."
- Paul Robinson takes on the ultimate pub challenge.
"Nowadays even boozing and chatting have gone hi-tech. And
while electric toothbrushes caught on and talking cars are
here to stay, is there really any justification for the
virtual pub?"
- Rebecca Fox asks if online boozers have really lost the
pub spirit.
Plus the Shift Control quiz: How wild are you... about pubs?
Shift Control: serving a full measure of delights, NOW, at
http://www.shiftcontrol.com
___________________________________________________________
Shift Control is produced by the Guardian's New Media Lab
with help from Boddingtons and Stella Artois Dry
To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send e-mail to
shiftcontrol-request at nml.guardian.co.uk with the following
text in the body of the mail message: unsubscribe
From ulf at fitug.de Thu Jul 3 05:12:30 1997
From: ulf at fitug.de (Ulf =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=F6ller?=)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 20:12:30 +0800
Subject: urban environment visualization systems
Message-ID: <9707031205.AA68804@public.uni-hamburg.de>
http://www.nttc.edu/solicitations/sbir/dod972/darpa972.txt
DARPA SB972-068 TITLE: Multi-Platform Real-Time 3-D Visualization
System Urban Environments and 3-D Terrain Imagery
KEY TECHNOLOGY AREA: Computing and Software
OBJECTIVE: Create a cross-platform (PC, Mac, Sun, SGI, etc.)
real-time 3-D visualization system capable of visualizing ultra-high
resolution urban environments immersed in global unlimited 3-D terrain imagery
simultaneously.
DESCRIPTION: Most high performance visualization systems are currently limited
to high-end graphics deskside work stations costing in excess of $100K. The
low-cost of high performance dedicated graphics hardware for personal computers
and low-end work stations has made it possible to create a cross-platform
system that can visualize virtually infinite amounts of high-resolution data in
real-time. Along with the enabling hardware, a highly integrated software
system that can effectively utilize the hardware with advanced graphics and
data handling technologies needs to be developed. Today, this capability only
exists on costly, difficult to use, and inflexible high-end systems. An
advanced system is required to:
1) Visualize unlimited amounts of terrain and structure data in urban
environments (e.g., large cities and military compounds containing complex
structures) in real-time;
2) Implement state-of-the-art rendering and data processing techniques to
provide the best possible performance for all types of data; and,
3) Run on a wide variety of systems ranging from high-end graphics work
stations to standard PCs with dedicated graphics hardware.
PHASE I: Define the visualization system to be developed,
requirements, software architecture, high-level design, technical approaches,
tradeoffs, and enhancements over current approaches and existing tools.
Demonstrate proof-of-concepts on at least two different graphics platforms.
PHASE II: Produce a prototype implementation of the system. Demonstrate
capability on at least three different graphics platforms (high and low-end
systems).
PHASE III DUAL USE APPLICATIONS: The emergence of low-cost 3-D hardware
for the PC platform has made practical the application of 3-D terrain and
building visualization technology to address a variety of problems such as
building physical security analysis (counterterrorism), urban planning,
forestry management, geographic information systems, and architectural
visualization. This program could greatly enhance the capability of businesses
(located abroad or in the United States) and government agencies to conduct
analysis of threats from terrorism or crime and to assist them in taking
prudent measures to reduce their risks of terrorist or criminal attack.
Portable visualization of urban settings enables any user to view their
organization/businesses in a manner useful to identifying risks from bombs,
sniping, or other security threats, and taking appropriate protective measures.
From nobody at REPLAY.COM Thu Jul 3 05:52:45 1997
From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 20:52:45 +0800
Subject: McVeigh Sentence
Message-ID: <199707031235.OAA01707@basement.replay.com>
On Tue, 17 Jun 1997, William H. Geiger III wrote:
> "There needs to be lifeguards at the shallow end of the gene pool"
Who said that originally? Can I borrow it?
From 77574525 at msn Thu Jul 3 21:06:29 1997
From: 77574525 at msn (77574525 at msn)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 21:06:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Free investment information!
Message-ID: <199700070025.gaa08056>
DON NOT CLICK REPLY, IT WILL NOT WORK, USE LINKS LISTED BELOW IN MESSAGE
Natural gas futures contracts on the New York Mercantile Exchange (NYMEX) have
hit record high levels for the past two years in the winter months. But why?
The answer lies in the simple economic principle of supply and demand. Winter
brings with it colder temperatures and an increased demand for Natural Gas.
Also, "just-in-time" inventory management practices have been adopted widely
in the energy industry. Corporate attempts to cut costs of stockpiling have
led to lower supplies.
That was the past; what does the future hold?
No one can answer that question with absolute certainty. However, key
indicators appear to be pointing to another significant move in the price of
Natural Gas going into the winter months. First, demand for Natural Gas has
been increased by the U.S. adding over 1.5 million new Natural Gas heating
units in 1996. Second, the American Gas Association reported that supplies in
underground storage are only at 38% of the total nationwide capacity.
Illustrating the point made earlier about the Corporations trying to keep
costs of stockpiling low to possibly boost earnings for stockholders.
What is the profit potential?
An investment of $5,000 and a $.50 realized gain in the value of your Natural
Gas options could return as much $25,000.
How realistic is it that the price of Natural Gas will move $.50?
The average seasonal price increase over the last seven years of trading
Natural Gas futures contracts has been $1.44. The smallest seasonal move was
$.51 and the largest move $2.86.
How do I receive my free information on the Natural Gas and other futures
markets?
Very easily; just send an email to nmp123 at lostvegas.com including :
*Name
*Address
*Phone
*Best time to call
(No packages can be sent without this information and please place Natural Gas
in the subject or body of the message.)
A Series-3 registered broker will call to confirm the request for information.
All brokers are registered with and regulated by the National Futures
Assoc.(NFA) and the Commodities Futures Trading Commission(CFTC).
Please only serious inquiries.
Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results. You could
lose part or all of your investment. However, when purchasing options your
risk is predetermined to the amount you invest. Commissions and fees will
impact the total amount returned to the client. Options do not move dollar
for dollar with the underlying futures contract until expiration date.
If you would like to be removed from our mailing list please send an email to:
nmp123 at lostvegas.com. Please place remove in the subject or body of the
letter.
From nobody at REPLAY.COM Thu Jul 3 06:50:24 1997
From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 21:50:24 +0800
Subject: Degaussing
Message-ID: <199707031337.PAA08887@basement.replay.com>
> That reminds me... I have some old drives I need to take down to the
> shooting range. (I want to make them an example to the other drives...)
>
> Sounds like a Cypherpunk project to me. ]:>
Unerased data is a cancer!
Only 50 Megatons of nuclear disinfectant can cure it!
Lock and load!
From randerso at ece.eng.wayne.edu Thu Jul 3 07:09:02 1997
From: randerso at ece.eng.wayne.edu (Ryan Anderson)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 22:09:02 +0800
Subject: random remailer forwarding (Was: Jeff's Side of the Story.)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19970702174350.0311cbf4@popd.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID:
On Wed, 2 Jul 1997, Bill Stewart wrote:
> >Well, to make the remailers more intelligent, have them count incoming
> >mail from the list of remailers participating in the system. (either that
> >or a rate) when one remailer seems to be sending much more mail than the
> >others (which shouldn't happen if all remailers are randomly distributing
> >the mail to each other) you automatically do the random forward to
> >another remailer.
>
> That's a way to guarantee that the remailers that aren't working
> get more of the traffic.....
So there's a few problems still, sheeeeeeshk. Actually, if you haven't
heard anything from a remailer for a while, you'd probably drop it from
your calculations. I'd also assume that the mailers participating in this
random forwarding system were at least somewhat stable.. :-)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ryan Anderson - "Who knows, even the horse might sing"
Wayne State University - CULMA "May you live in interesting times.."
randerso at ece.eng.wayne.edu Ohio = VYI of the USA
PGP Fingerprint - 7E 8E C6 54 96 AC D9 57 E4 F8 AE 9C 10 7E 78 C9
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From azur at netcom.com Thu Jul 3 07:21:01 1997
From: azur at netcom.com (Steve Schear)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 22:21:01 +0800
Subject: Liberating the Bits
In-Reply-To: <199707022134.PAA16117@wombat.sk.sympatico.ca>
Message-ID:
>BigNuts wrote:
> There is also a minimum level of sustenance needed by those who
>produce the products we use, and if this is not met, then they cease
>producing those products. If you copy George Strait's albums without
>putting a few pennies in his pocket, it is not likely to inhibit his
>market enough to matter, but if you do the same with an album by a
>group who is living in a station-wagon between gigs, then you might
>find yourself wondering "What ever happened to 'Psychotic Losers'?"
An alternative would be for the creators to publish their PK and the amount
of money they get from the sale of each item. Then well-meaning theives
can directly and anonymously send the artists ecash and sleep well at night
knowing the artist and not the vermin are benefiting.
--Steve
PGP mail preferred
Fingerprint: FE 90 1A 95 9D EA 8D 61 81 2E CC A9 A4 4A FB A9
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Schear | tel: (702) 658-2654
CEO | fax: (702) 658-2673
First ECache Corporation |
7075 West Gowan Road |
Suite 2148 |
Las Vegas, NV 89129 | Internet: azur at netcom.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------
I know not what instruments others may use,
but as for me, give me Ecache or give me debt.
SHOW ME THE DIGITS!
From m1tca00 at FRB.GOV Thu Jul 3 08:00:21 1997
From: m1tca00 at FRB.GOV (Tom Allard)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 23:00:21 +0800
Subject: Jeff's Side of the Story.
In-Reply-To: <199707030854.KAA07018@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID: <199707031416.KAA11262@bksmp2.FRB.GOV>
> Please see http://www.netscum.net/burnorg0.html for more info.
whois netscum.net
NETSCUM (NETSCUM2-DOM)
8001 Castor Avenue Ste. 127
Philadelphia, PA 19152
USA
Domain Name: NETSCUM.NET
Administrative Contact:
NETSCUM (NET33-ORG) admin at NETSCUM.NET
215-628-9780
Fax- 215-628-9762
Technical Contact, Zone Contact:
Wallace, Sanford (SW1708) domreg at CYBERPROMO.COM
215-628-9780
Billing Contact:
NETSCUM (NET33-ORG) admin at NETSCUM.NET
215-628-9780
Fax- 215-628-9762
Record last updated on 01-May-97.
Record created on 01-May-97.
Database last updated on 3-Jul-97 04:38:10 EDT.
Domain servers in listed order:
NS7.CYBERPROMO.COM 205.199.2.250
NS9.CYBERPROMO.COM 207.124.161.50
NS8.CYBERPROMO.COM 207.124.161.65
NS5.CYBERPROMO.COM 205.199.212.50
The InterNIC Registration Services Host contains ONLY Internet Information
(Networks, ASN's, Domains, and POC's).
Please use the whois server at nic.ddn.mil for MILNET Information.
rgds-- TA (tallard at frb.gov)
I don't speak for the Federal Reserve Board, it doesn't speak for me.
From rah at shipwright.com Thu Jul 3 08:40:10 1997
From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 23:40:10 +0800
Subject: AAAS Anonymity Project
Message-ID:
--- begin forwarded text
Mime-Version: 1.0
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 10:32:01 -0400
Reply-To: Law & Policy of Computer Communications
Sender: Law & Policy of Computer Communications
From: EGEHMAN
Subject: AAAS Anonymity Project
To: CYBERIA-L at LISTSERV.AOL.COM
The Scientific Freedom, Responsibility, and Law Program of the
American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) is
conducting an on-line survey to learn more about the uses of anonymity
and pseudonymity on the Internet. The survey, together with a series
of focus group meetings and an invitational conference, is part of a
project being funded by the National Science Foundation. The project
will generate a set of criteria describing the contexts in which
anonymous and pseudonymous communications are desirable, permissible,
or undesirable, and a set of guidelines for the use of anonymous and
pseudonymous communications in those situations where their use is to
be encouraged or at least tolerated. Please visit the Project website
to learn more about this timely project and tell us about your
experiences with anonymity or pseudonymity:
http://www.aaas.org/spp/anon.
Founded in 1848, the AAAS is a nonprofit scientific society dedicated
to the advancement of scientific and technological excellence, and to
the public's understanding of science and technology. AAAS is the
world's largest federation of scientific and engineering societies,
with nearly 300 affiliates. In addition, AAAS has a membership of
more than 143,000 scientists, engineers, science educators,
policymakers, and interested citizens dedicated to scientific and
technological progress in service to society. AAAS is the publisher
of the prestigious, peer-reviewed, weekly journal, SCIENCE.
Project on Anonymous Communications on the Internet
Directorate for Science & Policy Programs
American Association for the Advancement of Science
1200 New York Avenue, NW, Washington, DC, 20005
Tel: 202 326 6600 Fax: 202 289 4950
E-mail: anonspp at aaas.org
URL: http://www.aaas.org/spp/anon
--- end forwarded text
-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah at shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/
From tzeruch at ceddec.com Thu Jul 3 09:02:13 1997
From: tzeruch at ceddec.com (tzeruch at ceddec.com)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 00:02:13 +0800
Subject: PGP security problems?
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID: <97Jul3.112901edt.32257@brickwall.ceddec.com>
On Thu, 3 Jul 1997, ? the Platypus {aka David Formosa} wrote:
> Never trust a country with more peaple then sheep.
Never trust a country where the sheep are bipedal, especially when the
general policy is shearing is caring.
From sunder at brainlink.com Thu Jul 3 09:11:01 1997
From: sunder at brainlink.com (Ray Arachelian)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 00:11:01 +0800
Subject: AAAS Anonymity Project (Be AFRAID!)
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:
On Thu, 3 Jul 1997, Robert Hettinga wrote:
> The Scientific Freedom, Responsibility, and Law Program of the
> American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) is
> conducting an on-line survey to learn more about the uses of anonymity
> and pseudonymity on the Internet. The survey, together with a series
> of focus group meetings and an invitational conference, is part of a
> project being funded by the National Science Foundation. The project
> will generate a set of criteria describing the contexts in which
> anonymous and pseudonymous communications are desirable, permissible,
> or undesirable, and a set of guidelines for the use of anonymous and
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Sounds like an attempt at furthering legislation to curtail our freedoms.
I say stay the hell away from this. It smells of evil TLA's.
=====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos==============
.+.^.+.| Ray Arachelian | "If you wanna touch the sky, you must |./|\.
..\|/..|sunder at sundernet.com| be prepared to die. And I hate cough |/\|/\
<--*-->| ------------------ | syrup, don't you?" |\/|\/
../|\..| "A toast to Odin, | For with those which eternal lie, with |.\|/.
.+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"| strange aeons, even death may die. |.....
======================== http://www.sundernet.com =========================
From hallam at ai.mit.edu Thu Jul 3 09:19:59 1997
From: hallam at ai.mit.edu (Hallam-Baker)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 00:19:59 +0800
Subject: PGP security problems?
In-Reply-To: <199707030715.BAA26652@wombat.sk.sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <33BBCB54.2781@ai.mit.edu>
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Robert A. Costner wrote:
>
> At 01:18 AM 7/3/97 EST, Carolyn Turbyfill (probably didn't) write:
> >The email forgeries using bogus PGP keys to give the appearance
> >that the messages are from PGP, Inc. and our employees are the
> >result of a sick, twisted mind.
>
> While a keyserver with no authentication has a very low barrier to entry
> for false authentication, the barrier is not that much higher for even a
> Verisign class three verification. I've continually said that the biggest
> problem with secure authentication is that secure authentication is not
> possible.
I don't think thats a reasonable assertion at all. PGP is positing that
they have an online identification technique. Verisign are asserting
they
have performed a particular identification process and suggest that it
is
sufficient for a particular purpose:
http://www.verisign.com/pr/pr_idfct.htm
Class 3 Digital IDs
Require personal presence or registered credentials
Used for e-banking, large-sum transactions and contract execution
Cost: $24/year for individuals, $290/year for entities/web servers
($75 per
year renewal)
If you are a bank or company that needs to depend on an identity inthis
circumastance the critical point is that you have a standardized level
of security.
In electronic commerce it is rarely the case that one needs to reduce
risk to zero. The question is whether you can quantify the risk you are
exposed to. Whether you can insure it.
> I hate to see people doing such things with keyservers and keys, but we all
> knew the problem existed. I wonder where the solution is.
The solution is to put trust attributes in the certificates. If you
do an email callback you state that that is the identification
process you used in the cert.
Two years back it would make sense to upgrade PGP certs to work in
this way. At this point however X.509v3 has become the standard,
the most commonly available form of email encryption is S/MIME
which is built into the default operating system from next year
and comes with Communicator.
X509v3 may not be perfect but its there, it works and you can carry
the same information and construct the same trust relationships that
PGP supports. You can also construct other relationships. Looking at
the practice of using X509v3 with Outlook Express I found that the
actual mechanics of use were remarkably similar to PGP except that
it was easy to add in an entire trust domain such as my employer.
At this point I'm somewhat skeptical that a single vendor proprietary
solution should receive unquestioned support from cypherpunks on
the basis of history alone. The question is how to put cryptography
on every desk top on the planet. Bill Gates is a better aly in that
fight than Phil Z.
I think its rather silly for people to start complaining on this
list about the bad, bad, hackers. If we could trust people to be
good we would not need certificates or computer security at all.
Making unspecified and unsupported allegations against competitors
seems to me to be a very bad idea indeed.
Phill
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0
Charset: noconv
iQA/AwUBM7s2017MfpC8gEO7EQI7pACg0285HGGqLevqRTFZnzpB59PS8yoAn1Wp
0b7D8YcrmSn9VbjmAq55nKWx
=fRuw
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
From empower at murlin.com Fri Jul 4 00:40:38 1997
From: empower at murlin.com (empower at murlin.com)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 00:40:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Walk the Talk.
Message-ID:
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<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Find out for yourself. Just point and click:
http://www.windansea1.com
From nobody at REPLAY.COM Thu Jul 3 09:41:34 1997
From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 00:41:34 +0800
Subject: ISP signatures on outgoing mail
Message-ID: <199707031614.SAA27700@basement.replay.com>
Anyone heard of a proposal for ISPs to automatically sign outgoing
mail headers? Problem has been that spammers send email by one
path but forge a reply-to or from address at another location. Most
recent case is hotmail, which got blocked by netcom over a spam attack.
Actually mail didn't come from hotmail, was forged to look like it came
from there. Same thing has happened to remailers.
They need a standard for which headers to sign, then a dig sig can be
included in the headers to check that a message came from where it
claims.
From tzeruch at ceddec.com Thu Jul 3 09:42:57 1997
From: tzeruch at ceddec.com (tzeruch at ceddec.com)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 00:42:57 +0800
Subject: Liberating the Bits
In-Reply-To: <199707022134.PAA16117@wombat.sk.sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <97Jul3.120022edt.32259@brickwall.ceddec.com>
On Wed, 2 Jul 1997, BigNuts wrote:
> Michael Stutz wrote:
> > On Tue, 1 Jul 1997, Tim May wrote:
> >
> > > Technology liberates the bits.
> >
> > Copyright law is not only useless on the net but inefficient; one need only
> > compare the performance of free, copylefted software versus proprietary,
...
> Tim gave excellent information on how one can go about using
> technology to enjoy the fruits of other people's labour without
> contributing toward the survival of those producing the things
> he enjoys.
Or the same technology can restrict usage - strongly encrypted software
that checks digitally signatured dates and stops upon expiration. If you
don't want to honor the private contracts (licensing agreements where
applicable), then something else will replace them. Maybe it will be free
software (which does work better than commercial software, but doesn't
always have the desired features). Maybe it will be the technonightmare.
A great deal of evil can be committed, and the only difference is that now
"government" as we know it will be unable to control it.
Over 200 years ago, both the United States and France rid themselves of
their monarchy. One ended in liberty, the other in anarchy, eventually
reinstalling a coercive government. When the communists lost power in
eastern europe, many died from not obeying the sensible traffic laws.
I think it depends on how ethical the individual people will be when
confronted by the anarchy of the internet. If I govern myself, I don't
need big brother to do it. Might doesn't make right, it can only destroy
and not create, and at best merely preserve the peace.
Nor is it ethics in a pure, merely altruistic sense. I want Phil
Zimmerman to be around and writing software. For that to happen, it is in
my interest to contribute to him, either directly (PGP Inc. could be the
PGP foundation), or indirectly. I want Linux to do certain things, so I
write them, and because of the free software ethic, I add my work to the
public pool - it would be more expensive to try selling it. But I make
money by consulting and using the software that is available.
Although I believe there is nothing new under the sun, the breakdown of a
paternal/maternal enforcement entity called "government" will force a
change in society. There will be a "new" ethical system, which is cause
for both hope and fear.
From randerso at ece.eng.wayne.edu Thu Jul 3 12:15:47 1997
From: randerso at ece.eng.wayne.edu (Ryan Anderson)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 03:15:47 +0800
Subject: ISP signatures on outgoing mail
Message-ID:
On Thu, 3 Jul 1997, Anonymous wrote:
> They need a standard for which headers to sign, then a dig sig can be
> included in the headers to check that a message came from where it
> claims.
this doesn't seem to help solve the problem very much. The way SMTP works
right now, spammers can frequently just connect to somebodies SMTP server,
drop off a load of e-mail, and let their server handle it. (identical to
how the ISPs customers drop off mail)
All we get out of this is a way to blame those who sign their mail and get
slammed by a spammer.
Funny, this wouldn't seem to hurt remailers all that much. You'd
basically guarantee that, yes, the mail really did come from the anonymous
remailer. :-)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ryan Anderson - "Who knows, even the horse might sing"
Wayne State University - CULMA "May you live in interesting times.."
randerso at ece.eng.wayne.edu Ohio = VYI of the USA
PGP Fingerprint - 7E 8E C6 54 96 AC D9 57 E4 F8 AE 9C 10 7E 78 C9
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From whgiii at amaranth.com Thu Jul 3 13:37:03 1997
From: whgiii at amaranth.com (William H. Geiger III)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 04:37:03 +0800
Subject: PGP security problems?
Message-ID: <199707032025.PAA30172@mailhub.amaranth.com>
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
In <33BBCB54.2781 at ai.mit.edu>, on 07/03/97
at 11:55 AM, Hallam-Baker said:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>Robert A. Costner wrote:
>>
>> At 01:18 AM 7/3/97 EST, Carolyn Turbyfill (probably didn't) write:
>> >The email forgeries using bogus PGP keys to give the appearance
>> >that the messages are from PGP, Inc. and our employees are the
>> >result of a sick, twisted mind.
>>
>> While a keyserver with no authentication has a very low barrier to entry
>> for false authentication, the barrier is not that much higher for even a
>> Verisign class three verification. I've continually said that the biggest
>> problem with secure authentication is that secure authentication is not
>> possible.
>I don't think thats a reasonable assertion at all. PGP is positing that
>they have an online identification technique. Verisign are asserting they
>have performed a particular identification process and suggest that it is
>sufficient for a particular purpose:
>http://www.verisign.com/pr/pr_idfct.htm
>Class 3 Digital IDs
> Require personal presence or registered credentials
> Used for e-banking, large-sum transactions and contract execution
> Cost: $24/year for individuals, $290/year for entities/web servers
>($75 per
> year renewal)
>If you are a bank or company that needs to depend on an identity inthis
>circumastance the critical point is that you have a standardized level of
>security.
>In electronic commerce it is rarely the case that one needs to reduce
>risk to zero. The question is whether you can quantify the risk you are
>exposed to. Whether you can insure it.
>> I hate to see people doing such things with keyservers and keys, but we all
>> knew the problem existed. I wonder where the solution is.
>The solution is to put trust attributes in the certificates. If you do an
>email callback you state that that is the identification process you
>used in the cert.
>Two years back it would make sense to upgrade PGP certs to work in this
>way. At this point however X.509v3 has become the standard, the most
>commonly available form of email encryption is S/MIME which is built into
>the default operating system from next year and comes with Communicator.
>X509v3 may not be perfect but its there, it works and you can carry the
>same information and construct the same trust relationships that PGP
>supports. You can also construct other relationships. Looking at the
>practice of using X509v3 with Outlook Express I found that the actual
>mechanics of use were remarkably similar to PGP except that it was easy
>to add in an entire trust domain such as my employer.
>At this point I'm somewhat skeptical that a single vendor proprietary
>solution should receive unquestioned support from cypherpunks on the
>basis of history alone. The question is how to put cryptography on every
>desk top on the planet. Bill Gates is a better aly in that fight than
>Phil Z.
>I think its rather silly for people to start complaining on this list
>about the bad, bad, hackers. If we could trust people to be good we would
>not need certificates or computer security at all. Making unspecified and
>unsupported allegations against competitors seems to me to be a very bad
>idea indeed.
Phil what can I say except this is just BULL!
Last time I looked the S/MIME & X509 v3 specs were not in a finished
state.
What I have seen of the specs I do not like. The sepcs are overly complex
and fail to offer any added security over what can be obtained using PGP.
Then we have GAK directly referenced and supported in the specs:
>5.1 Binding Names and Keys
>An S/MIME agent or some related administrative utility or function MUST
>be capable of generating a certification request given a user's public
>key and associated name information. In most cases, the user's public
>key/private key pair will be generated simultaneously. However, there
>are cases where the keying information may be generated by an external
>process (such as when a key pair is generated on a cryptographic token
>or by a "key recovery" service).
Now lets add to this Netscapes support of weak crypto & their
implementation of "policy tokens".
Are these really the people you wish to trust with the future of crypto??
Are you willing to condem the world to Win95 & Communicator (2 of the
bigest peices of crap I have ever seen passed of as comercial software).
Phil Zimmerman has done more for putting STRONG crypto on every desktop
than M$,N$,R$A or the rest ever have or ever will.
Make no mistakes about it, our goal should be to put STRONG crypto on
every desktop not just any weak peice of crap available. Weak crypto is
worse than no crypto at all.
- --
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0
Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
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Version: 2.6.3a
Charset: cp850
Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000
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0o/jxHBgyr1b4Xu96BiZXkNYn5Z/B7pXCyp8j5JU1nHs3een/n+Bg2V3gxZHK5hf
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From newlife at saveself.com Fri Jul 4 05:23:27 1997
From: newlife at saveself.com (newlife at saveself.com)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 05:23:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: $$$ GET YOUR SHARE $$$
Message-ID: <0000000000.AAA000@saveself.com>
You are about to make at least $50,000 - In less than 90 days
Read the enclosed program...THEN READ IT AGAIN!...
Dear Friend,
I know that this seems like another one of those E-mails trying to
clutter up your mail box, but if you will give me five minutes of your
time to read this letter I think that you will understand why.
My name is Christopher Erickson. Two years ago, the corporation
I worked at for the past twelve years down-sized and my position
was eliminated. After unproductive job interviews, I decided to
open my own business... Soon I owed my family, friends, and
creditors over $35,000... I had to refinance and borrow against my
home to support my family and struggling business.
AT THAT MOMENT something significant happened in my life and
I am writing to share my experience in hopes that this will change
your life FOREVER... FINANCIALLY!!!
I received this program via e-mail. THANK GOODNESS they got
my name off a mailing list!!! After reading it several times, to make
sure I was reading it correctly, I couldn't believe my eyes. Here was
a MONEY-MAKING PHENOMENON. I could invest as much as I
wanted without putting me further in debt. I figured I would at least
get my money back. After determining that the program is
LEGAL and NOT A CHAIN LETTER, I decided "WHY NOT".
Initially I sent out 10,000 e-mails. It only cost me about $15.00 for
my time on-line. The great thing about e-mail is that I didn't need
any money for printing to send out the program, only the cost to fulfil
l my orders. I am telling you like it is, I hope it doesn't turn you off,
but I promised myself that I would not "cheat" anyone, no matter
how much money it cost me!.
In one week, I was receiving orders for REPORT #1. In less than
a month, I had received 26 orders for REPORT #1. When you read
the GUARANTEE in the program, you will see that
"YOU MUST RECEIVE 15 TO 20 ORDERS FOR REPORT #1
WITHIN TWO WEEKS. IF YOU DON'T, SEND OUT MORE
PROGRAMS UNTIL YOU DO!"
My first step in making $50,000 in 20 to 90 days was I paid off ALL
my debts and bought a much needed new car. Please take time to
read the attached program, IT WILL CHANGE YOUR LIFE FOREVER!
Remember, it wont work if you don't try it. This program does work,
but you must follow it EXACTLY! Especially the rules of not trying to
alter the names or sequence. REPORT #2 explains this. Always
follow the guarantee, 15 to 20 orders for REPORT #1, and 100 or
more orders for REPORT #2 and you will make $50,000 or more in
20 to 90 days. I AM LIVING PROOF THAT IT WORKS !!!
If you choose not to participate in this program, I'm sorry. It really is a
great opportunity with little cost or risk to you. If you choose to
participate, follow the program and you will be on your way to financial
security.
If you are a fellow business owner and you are in financial trouble like
I was, or you want to start your own business, consider this a sign. I DID!
Sincerely,
Christopher Erickson
PS Do you have any idea what 11,700 $5 bills ($58,000) look like piled up on
a kitchen table? IT'S AWESOME!
"THREW IT AWAY"
"I had received this program before. I threw it away, but later wondered if
I shouldn't have given it a try. Of course, I had no idea who to contact to
get a copy, so I had to wait until I was emailed another copy of the program.
Eleven months passed, then it came. I DIDN'T throw this one away. I
made $41,000 on the first try."
Dawn W., Evansville, IN
A PERSONAL NOTE FROM THE ORIGINATOR OF THIS PROGRAM
By the time you have read the enclosed information and looked over
the enclosed program and reports, you should have concluded that
such a program, and one that is legal, could not have been created
by an amateur.
Let me tell you a little about myself. I had a profitable business for
ten years. Then in 1979 my business began falling off. I was doing
the same things that were previously successful for me, but it wasn't
working. Finally, I figured it out. It wasn't me, it was the economy.
Inflation and recession had replaced the stable economy that had
been with us since 1945. I don't have to tell you what happened to
the unemployment rate... because many of you know from first hand
experience. There were more failures and bankruptcies than ever before.
The middle class was vanishing. Those who knew what they were
doing invested wisely and moved up. Those who did not, including
those who never had anything to save or invest, were moving down
into the ranks of the poor. As the saying goes,
"THE RICH GET RICHER AND THE POOR GET POORER."
The traditional methods of making money will never allow you to
"move up" or "get rich", inflation will see to that.
You have just received information that can give you financial freedom
for the rest of your life, with "NO RISK" and "JUST A LITTLE BIT OF EFFORT."
You can make more money in the next few months than you have ever imagined.
I should also point out that I will not see a penny of your money, nor anyone
else who has provided a testimonial for this program. I have already made
over FOUR MILLION DOLLARS! I have retired from the program after sending
out over 16,000 programs. Now I have several offices which market this and
several other programs here in the US and overseas. By the Spring, we wish
to market the 'Internet' by a partnership with AMERICA ON LINE.
Follow the program EXACTLY AS INSTRUCTED. Do not change it in any way.
It works exceedingly well as it is now. Remember to e-mail a copy of this
exciting program to everyone that you can think of. One of the people you
send this to may send out 50,000... and your name will be on every one of
them!. Remember though, the more you send out, the more potential customers
you will reach.
So my friend, I have given you the ideas, information, materials and
opportunity to become financially independent, IT IS UP TO YOU NOW!
"THINK ABOUT IT"
Before you delete this program from your mailbox, as I almost did, take a little
time to read it and REALLY THINK ABOUT IT. Get a pencil and figure out
what could happen when YOU participate. Figure out the worst possible
response and no matter how you calculate it, you will still make a lot of money!
Definitely get back what you invested. Any doubts you have will vanish when
your first orders come in. IT WORKS!
Paul Johnson, Raleigh, NC
HERE'S HOW THIS AMAZING PROGRAM WILL MAKE YOU $$$$$$
If you decide to start small, just to see how it goes, then let's assume you
and all those involved send out 2,000 programs each. Let's also assume
that the mailing receives a .5% response.
That is only 10 orders for REPORT #1! Those 10 people respond by
sending out 2,000 programs each for a total of 20,000. Out of those .5%,
100 people respond and order REPORT #2. Those 100 mail out 2,000
programs each for a total of 200,000. The .5% response to that is 1,000
orders for REPORT #3. Those 1,000 send out 2,000 programs each for
a 2,000,000 total. The .5% response to that is 10,000 orders for
REPORT #4. That's 10,000 five dollar bills for you. CASH!!!!
Your total income in this example is $50 + $500 + $5000 +
$50,000 for a total of $55,550!!! REMEMBER FRIEND, THIS IS
ASSUMING 1,990 OUT OF 2,000 PEOPLE YOU MAIL TO WILL DO
ABSOLUTELY NOTHING... AND TRASH THIS PROGRAM! DARE
TO THINK FOR A MOMENT WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF EVERYONE
OR HALF SENT OUT 100,000 PROGRAMS INSTEAD OF ONLY
2,000. Believe me, many people will do that and more! By the way, your
cost to participate THIS IS A LEGITIMATE, LEGAL, MONEY MAKING
OPPORTUNITY. It does not require you to come in contact with people,
do any hard work, and best of all, you never have to leave the house
except to get the mail. Someday you'll get that big break that you've
been waiting for, THIS IS IT! Simply follow the instructions, and your
dream will come true. This multi-level e-mail order marketing program
works perfectly... 100% EVERY TIME.
E-mail is the sales tool of the future. Take advantage of this
non-commercialized
method of advertising NOW!! The longer you wait, the more people
will be doing business using e-mail. Get your piece of this action!!
MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING (MLM) has finally gained respectability.
It is being taught in the Harvard Business School, and both Stanford
Research and The Wall Street Journal have stated that between
50% and 65% of all goods and services will be sold throughout
Multi-level Methods by the mid to late 1990's. This is a Multi-Billion
Dollar industry and of the 500,000 millionaires in the US, 20%
(100,000) made their fortune in the last several years in MLM.
Moreover, statistics show 45 people become millionaires everyday
through Multi-Level Marketing.
INSTRUCTIONS
This is the GREATEST Multi-level Mail Order Marketing anywhere:
Step (1) Order all four 4 REPORTS listed by NAME AND NUMBER.
Do this by ordering the REPORT from each of the four 4 names
listed on the next page. For each REPORT, send $5 CASH and a
SELF- ADDRESSED, STAMPED envelope (BUSINESS SIZE #10)
to the person listed for the SPECIFIC REPORT.
International orders should also include $1 extra for postage. It is
essential that you specify the NAME and NUMBER of the report
requested to the person you are ordering from. You will need
ALL FOUR 4 REPORTS because you will be REPRINTING and
RESELLING them. DO NOT alter the names or sequence other
than what the instructions say.
IMPORTANT: Always provide same-day service on all orders.
Step (2) Replace the name and address under REPORT #1 with
yours, moving the one that was there down to REPORT #2. Drop
the name and address under REPORT #2 to REPORT #3,
moving the one that was there to REPORT #4. The name and
address that was under REPORT #4 is dropped from the list and
this party is no doubt on the way to the bank. When doing this,
make certain you type the names and addresses ACCURATELY!
DO NOT MIX UP MOVING PRODUCT/REPORT POSITIONS!!!
Step (3) Having made the required changes in the NAME list, save it as
a text (.txt) file in it's own directory to be used with whatever e-mail
program you like. Again, REPORT #3 will tell you the best methods of
bulk emailing and acquiring e-mail lists.
Step (4) E-mail a copy of the entire program (all of this is very important)
to everyone whose address you can get your hands on. Start with friends
and relatives since you can encourage them to take advantage of this
fabulous money-making opportunity. That's what I did. And they love
me now, more than ever. Then, e-mail to anyone and everyone! Use
your imagination! You can get e-mail addresses from companies on the
Internet who specialize in e-mail mailing lists. These are very cheap,
100,000 addresses for around $35.00.
IMPORTANT: You won't get a good response if you use an old list, so
always request a FRESH, NEW list. You will find out where to purchase
these lists when you order the four 4 REPORTS.
ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON ALL ORDERS!!!
REQUIRED REPORTS
***Order each REPORT by NUMBER and NAME***
ALWAYS SEND A SELF-ADDRESSED, STAMPED ENVELOPE
AND $5 CASH FOR EACH ORDER REQUESTING THE
SPECIFIC REPORT BY NAME AND NUMBER
________________________________________________________
REPORT #1
"HOW TO MAKE $250,000 THROUGH MULTI-LEVEL SALES"
ORDER REPORT #1 FROM:
WFH MARKETING
PO BOX 425
WHITMAN, MA 02382
USA
________________________________________________________
REPORT #2
"MAJOR CORPORATIONS AND MULTI-LEVEL SALES"
ORDER REPORT #2 FROM:
Skynr Comm. Inc
1108 Skyline Dr.
Suite 421
Arlington, TX 76011
USA
________________________________________________________
REPORT#3
"SOURCES FOR THE BEST MAILING LISTS"
ORDER REPORT #3 FROM:
Geddie Marketing
4700 Dester Ave.
Box 222
Ft. Worth TX 76107
________________________________________________________
REPORT #4
"EVALUATING MULTI-LEVEL SALES PLANS"
ORDER REPORT #4 FROM:
Trestken Market Research
P. O. Box 1442
Pottsboro, TX 75076
USA
________________________________________________________
CONCLUSION
I am enjoying my fortune that I made by sending out this program. You too,
will be making money in 20 to 90 days, if you follow the SIMPLE STEPS
outlined in this mailing.
To be financially independent is to be FREE. Free to make financial
decisions as never before. Go into business, get into investments, retire
or take a vacation. No longer will a lack of money hold you back.
Please re-read this material, this is a special opportunity. If you have any
questions, please feel free to write to the sender of this information.
You will get a prompt and informative reply.
My method is simple. I sell thousands of people a product for $5 that
costs me pennies to produce and e-mail. I should also point out that
this program is legal and everyone who participates WILL make money.
This is not a chain letter or pyramid scheme. At times you have probably
received chain letters, asking you to send money, on faith, but getting
NOTHING in return, NO product what-so-ever! Chain letters are illegal
and the risk of someone breaking the chain makes them quite unattractive.
You are offering a legitimate product to your people. After they purchase
the product from you, they reproduce more and resell them. It's simple free
enterprise. As you learned from the enclosed material, the PRODUCT is a
series of four 4 FINANCIAL AND BUSINESS REPORTS. The information
contained in these REPORTS will not only help you in making your
participation in this program more rewarding, but will be useful to you in any
other business decisions you make in the years ahead. You are also
buying the rights to reprint all of the REPORTS, which will be ordered
from you by those to whom you mail this program. The concise one and
two page REPORTS you will be buying can easily be reproduced at a
local copy center for a cost off about 3 cents a copy. Best wishes with
the program and Good Luck!
TIPS FOR SUCCESS
Send for your four 4 REPORTS immediately so you will have them when the orders start coming in. When you receive a $5 order, you MUST send out the product/service to comply with US Postal and Lottery laws. Title 18 Sections 1302 and 1341 specifically state that: "A PRODUCT OR SERVICE MUST BE EXCHANGED FOR MONEY RECEIVED."
WHILE YOU WAIT FOR THE REPORTS TO ARRIVE:
1. Name your new company. You can use your own name if you
desire.
2. Get a post office box (preferred).
3. Edit the names and addresses on the program. You must remember, your name and address go next to REPORT #1 and the others all move down one, with the fourth one being bumped OFF the list.
4. Obtain as many e-mail addresses as possible to send until you receive the information on mailing list companies in REPORT #3.
5. Decide on the number of programs you intend to send out. The more you send, and the quicker you send them, the more money you will make.
6. After mailing the programs, get ready to fill the orders.
7. Copy the four 4 REPORTS so you are able to send them out as soon as you receive an order. IMPORTANT: ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON ORDERS YOU
RECEIVE!
8. Make certain the letter and reports are neat and legible.
YOUR GUARANTEE
The check point which GUARANTEES your success is simply this: you must receive 15 to 20 orders for REPORT #1. This is a must!!! If you don't within two weeks, e-mail out more programs until you do. Then a couple of weeks later you should receive at least 100 orders for REPORT #2, if you don't, send out more programs until you do. Once you have received 100 or more orders for REPORT #2, (take a deep breath) you can sit back and relax, because YOU ARE GOING TO MAKE AT LEAST $50,000. Mathematically it is a proven guarantee. Of those who have participated in the program and reached the above GUARANTEES-ALL have reached their $50,000 goal. Also, remember, every time your name is moved down the list you are in front of a different REPORT, so you can keep track of your program by knowing what people are ordering from you. IT'S THAT EASY, REALLY, IT IS!!!
REMEMBER:
"HE WHO DARES NOTHING, NEED NOT HOPE FOR ANYTHING."
"INVEST A LITTLE TIME, ENERGY AND MONEY NOW OR
SEARCH FOR IT FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE."
From jay0070 at ix.netcom.com Thu Jul 3 14:33:59 1997
From: jay0070 at ix.netcom.com (jay0070 at ix.netcom.com)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 05:33:59 +0800
Subject: MASS E-MAIL
Message-ID:
Do you have information you want to distribute to thousands of people, or a product you want to offer to a lot of people quickly?
Look no more.
I will send you electronically 2,500,000 E-mail addresses. That is 2.5 MILLION!!!!!!!!!!!
You can cut and paste the addresses to your mail server and save them for later.
Just write up what you want to say, click send, and within minutes you will reach 1000000's of people.
For $20 I will give you 2.5 million addresses for you to use to market your product or service cost efficiently, and directions on how to do it.
send your E-mail address and $$ to: Mr. Hammond
P.O. Box 8022
Burlington, VT 05401
I update the addresses monthly...SATISFACTION GUARANTEED
From hedges at infonex.com Thu Jul 3 15:46:04 1997
From: hedges at infonex.com (hedges at infonex.com)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 06:46:04 +0800
Subject: Jeff's Side of the Story.
In-Reply-To: <5pbnoe$f29$1@re.hotwired.com>
Message-ID: <199707032233.PAA05206@rigel.cyberpass.net>
Jeff wrote at some unknown date and time:
> The right to anonymity in the US will be legislated away within 18 months,
> partially because of spam. I do hope there's a _good_ test case waiting,
> and someone willing to fight it to the end, but I have my doubts. Ultimately
> the remailer network will be forced to move offshore, the way Crypto
> development currently has.
I'm not sure this is true, Jeff. As we saw with the CDA, what the
legislature and executives may do under the gun of popular opinion
and funding pressure is not always constitutional. There are
precedents for anonymity, from the time when the Federalist Papers
were published anonymously to now. If you like examine Talley v.
California and McIntyre v. Ohio Campaign Commission, both cases
in which the Supreme Court of the United States upheld the right
to anonymity. As you may know an injunction was issued against the
Georgia (U.S.) State against their anti-anonymity law.
I neglected to post the URL's in the newsgroups: www.epic.org/free_speech/.
>From the legal precedents it does not appear the right to anonymity
is in any immediate jeopardy, though fire-consumed politicians may
push bill after bill into the courts to push personal culpability
for transmission of information. Eventually, with enough case precedent
blocking them every time, legislature will learn that it is futile
to pass an anti-anonymity law, regardless of whether the individual
legislators think it is right or wrong.
The real danger is what you encountered---self styled vigilante
enforcers of narrow-minded selfish pride---people who just can't
stand to be told that they're losers, whether they are or not.
Public defamation using anonymity is an interesting issue, and
one I'm not prepared to take a stand on. Does anyone have commentary?
Mark Hedges
"First you learn you can only know nothing,
then you learn that everything is just a good idea."
From dformosa at st.nepean.uws.edu.au Thu Jul 3 16:42:12 1997
From: dformosa at st.nepean.uws.edu.au (? the Platypus {aka David Formosa})
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 07:42:12 +0800
Subject: ISP signatures on outgoing mail
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:
On Thu, 3 Jul 1997, Ryan Anderson wrote:
[...]
> this doesn't seem to help solve the problem very much. The way SMTP works
> right now, spammers can frequently just connect to somebodies SMTP server,
> drop off a load of e-mail, and let their server handle it.
There is now meany patchers to avoid mail relaying like this. Good ISP's
don't let mail to go from an outside site to anoughter outside site.
> (identical to how the ISPs customers drop off mail)
No its diffrent ISP's customers move from the inside to the outside.
Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from agraphia see the url in my header.
Never trust a country with more peaple then sheep. Buy easter bilbies.
Save the ABC Is $0.08 per day too much to pay? ex-net.scum and prouud
I'm sorry but I just don't consider 'because its yukky' a convinceing argument
From randerso at ece.eng.wayne.edu Thu Jul 3 17:21:54 1997
From: randerso at ece.eng.wayne.edu (Ryan Anderson)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 08:21:54 +0800
Subject: ISP signatures on outgoing mail
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:
On Fri, 4 Jul 1997, ? the Platypus {aka David Formosa} wrote:
> There is now meany patchers to avoid mail relaying like this. Good ISP's
> don't let mail to go from an outside site to anoughter outside site.
>
> > (identical to how the ISPs customers drop off mail)
>
> No its diffrent ISP's customers move from the inside to the outside.
Well, with current technology, it's not too difficult to forge DNS
entries, and I imagine you could forge enough entires to confuse a reverse
DNS lookup. But this is really a different issue and I think the most
recent version of Bind fixes some of these problems..
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ryan Anderson - "Who knows, even the horse might sing"
Wayne State University - CULMA "May you live in interesting times.."
randerso at ece.eng.wayne.edu Ohio = VYI of the USA
PGP Fingerprint - 7E 8E C6 54 96 AC D9 57 E4 F8 AE 9C 10 7E 78 C9
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From markm at voicenet.com Thu Jul 3 20:23:21 1997
From: markm at voicenet.com (Mark M.)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 11:23:21 +0800
Subject: Jeff's Side of the Story.
In-Reply-To: <199707031416.KAA11262@bksmp2.FRB.GOV>
Message-ID:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
On Thu, 3 Jul 1997, Tom Allard wrote:
> > Please see http://www.netscum.net/burnorg0.html for more info.
>
> whois netscum.net
> [...]
>
> NS7.CYBERPROMO.COM 205.199.2.250
> NS9.CYBERPROMO.COM 207.124.161.50
> NS8.CYBERPROMO.COM 207.124.161.65
> NS5.CYBERPROMO.COM 205.199.212.50
>
>
> The InterNIC Registration Services Host contains ONLY Internet Information
> (Networks, ASN's, Domains, and POC's).
> Please use the whois server at nic.ddn.mil for MILNET Information.
It makes sense that the Net.Scum pages would be hosted by Cyperpromotions
since every other ISP that hosted the web pages were threatened with
libel suits. As I understand it, Cyberpromo's web hosting services
are separate from their junk email services. Cyberpromotions gets so
many legal threats that a few more don't make a large difference. This
was also the reason why an anonymous poster suggested Cyberpromo as a
possible remailer-friendly ISP.
Mark
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From markm at voicenet.com Thu Jul 3 20:42:05 1997
From: markm at voicenet.com (Mark M.)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 11:42:05 +0800
Subject: ISP signatures on outgoing mail
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
On Thu, 3 Jul 1997, Ryan Anderson wrote:
> On Fri, 4 Jul 1997, ? the Platypus {aka David Formosa} wrote:
>
> > There is now meany patchers to avoid mail relaying like this. Good ISP's
> > don't let mail to go from an outside site to anoughter outside site.
> >
> > > (identical to how the ISPs customers drop off mail)
> >
> > No its diffrent ISP's customers move from the inside to the outside.
>
> Well, with current technology, it's not too difficult to forge DNS
> entries, and I imagine you could forge enough entires to confuse a reverse
> DNS lookup. But this is really a different issue and I think the most
> recent version of Bind fixes some of these problems..
It would be possible to configure sendmail to only deliver a message that
has an authorized host in the "MAIL FROM" and "RCPT TO" commands. This
could possibly be defeated by forging DNS entries in the ISP's nameserver,
but that's more than most spammers would probably want to risk.
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Ryan Anderson - "Who knows, even the horse might sing"
> Wayne State University - CULMA "May you live in interesting times.."
> randerso at ece.eng.wayne.edu Ohio = VYI of the USA
> PGP Fingerprint - 7E 8E C6 54 96 AC D9 57 E4 F8 AE 9C 10 7E 78 C9
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
Mark
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Taq3XTx5brL+KW1pKlvOtlTp9G7xQ6jBPzHjWd26kl8Gq+B0Udo9hQ==
=2d7Q
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
From claudine at adultpatrol.com Fri Jul 4 14:01:27 1997
From: claudine at adultpatrol.com (claudine at adultpatrol.com)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 14:01:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Make $$$ with 800 Phone Numbers
Message-ID: <20490774600333@adultpatrol.com>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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From cypherpunks at Algebra.COM Fri Jul 4 04:48:11 1997
From: cypherpunks at Algebra.COM (cypherpunks at Algebra.COM)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 19:48:11 +0800
Subject: http://hipcrime.home.ml.org
Message-ID: <199707041140.EAA15235@norway.it.earthlink.net>
This is NOT a commercial message. Thanks.
From md546178 at silab.dsi.unimi.it Fri Jul 4 05:26:27 1997
From: md546178 at silab.dsi.unimi.it (Moreno Daltin)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 20:26:27 +0800
Subject: hi
Message-ID: <199707041205.OAA16771@tic.silab.dsi.unimi.it>
hi everybody !
From taxbuster at futuregate.com Fri Jul 4 20:47:35 1997
From: taxbuster at futuregate.com (FutureGate Web Services)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 20:47:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Income Tax News - July 4th Edition
Message-ID: <199707050347.UAA24630@toad.com>
Happy 4th of July!!
I hope your celebration is going well. I am celebrating with a special announcement of the new expanded TaxBuster Guide. Although the second addition contains much new information on how you can lawfully opt out of the Federal income tax system, the price for access to the web-site will remain at $9.95 to celebrate the 221st birthday of the Declaration of Independence.
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
To be removed from any future mailings, just reply with REMOVE in the
subject line.
From rah at shipwright.com Fri Jul 4 06:43:37 1997
From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 21:43:37 +0800
Subject: Clinton nixes domestic encryption right
Message-ID:
--- begin forwarded text
X-Sender: tbell at cato.org
Mime-Version: 1.0
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 17:10:46 -0400
Reply-To: Law & Policy of Computer Communications
Sender: Law & Policy of Computer Communications
From: "Tom W. Bell"
Subject: Re: Clinton nixes domestic encryption right
To: CYBERIA-L at LISTSERV.AOL.COM
Phill writes:
>Stuart Baker claims that Gore is the main administration supporter of GAK.
>But others have claimed the exact opposite. I suspect that if Gore really
>supported the GAK idea he would do so publically and explicitly, its a vote
>winner.
For what it's worth, I had dinner Monday with two people from Gore's office
and one of Microsoft's officers. The Gore people consistently demanded
mandatory key escrow, though they seemed willing to allow private parties to
do the job so long as GAK remained an option. The Microsoft person only
went so far as to offer to always make key escrow a *feature*, arguing that
this would in practice get the administration all the GAK it wants because
almost everyone would want to escrow their private keys.
The debate unfolded something like this:
Gore people: "People using really strong encryption will *want* to escrow
their keys. Otherwise, lost keys will result in irretrievably lost data."
MS person: "Oh, sure--especially commerical players. But you underestimate
the amount of resistance *mandated* escrowing will create. People want to
*choose* to escrow. If you let them, they will."
Gore people: "Well, if they're going to escrow anyhow, what's the problem
with mandating it?"
MS person: "You don't get it. Our customers care deeply about their
encryption rights, and we want happy customers. If the administration will
just back off, it will get what it wants--or, at least, as much as it can at
any rate expect."
It presented a classic case of cultural conflict--in this case, political
cultural confronting commercial culture.
Tom W. Bell
-----------
tbell at cato.org
Director, Telecommunications and Technology Studies
The Cato Institute
--- end forwarded text
-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah at shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/
From ravage at ssz.com Fri Jul 4 06:44:01 1997
From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 21:44:01 +0800
Subject: index.html
Message-ID: <199707041320.IAA15627@einstein.ssz.com>
News
Destination Mars: Special Section
3700 hotels worldwide- click here for immediate on-line reservations
Search and Feedback NEWS
Passenger dragged half-naked from plane lavatory sues
lavatory lawsuit graphic July 3, 1997
Web posted at: 5:07 p.m. EDT (2107 GMT)
NEW YORK (AP) -- Caught with his pants down on a trans-Atlanticflight,
a New York businessman insists he is innocent.
Raviv Laor says he was dragged from the bathroom of an AirFrance
plane with his trousers around his ankles and toilet paperin his hand
because a flight attendant wrongly thought he wassneaking a smoke.
Laor, who says a malfunctioning smoke alarm went off, is suingthe
airline for $12 million for his humiliation. He says he went tocourt
after failing to get an apology or even a reply from theairline.
Air France said Thursday that it was reviewing Laor's allegationsand
would "respond in due course in the appropriate forum" afterconducting
its own investigation.
'The depth of my embarrassment I cannot begin to describe'
The lawsuit, filed last month in Manhattan Supreme Court,asserts that
20 minutes into a flight from Paris to Newark Airporton May 19, crew
members broke into the locked lavatory andassaulted Laor.
"The crew members then, while Laor was naked from the waistdown,
dragged him outside the lavatory, exposing his genitals andother body
parts to many seated passengers, both female and male,"the lawsuit
said.
"I was terrified," said Laor, 28, who owns a computer
servicescompany. "My first reaction was 'My God, something must
havehappened to the plane.'"
"The depth of my embarrassment I cannot begin to describe," hesaid.
Laor says he neither smokes nor drinks, and had opted for anonsmoking
flight.
He said his protestations were answered with a threat that hewould be
arrested for arguing with the crew.
The flight purser "told me I did not have the right to expectprivacy"
and complained that Americans were "always screamingabout their
rights," Laor said.
"An official apology from Air France would have made adifference, but
now too much time has elapsed," Laor says.
Copyright 1997 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material
may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. rule
Note: Pages will open in a new browser window.
Related story:
* Flight attendant secondhand smoke trial under way - June 2, 1997
Related site:
* Air France
To Top
� 1997 Cable News Network, Inc.
All Rights Reserved.
Terms under which this service is provided to you.
From rah at shipwright.com Fri Jul 4 06:44:20 1997
From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 21:44:20 +0800
Subject: SET and dual use
Message-ID:
--- begin forwarded text
Sender: e$@thumper.vmeng.com
Reply-To: ptharrison
MIME-version: 1.0
Precedence: Bulk
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 1997 23:01:00 -0400
From: ptharrison
To: Multiple recipients of
Subject: SET and dual use
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
The Worldwide Conspiracy of International Bankers is now engaged
in an unprecedented attack on the Nation State. Last month, a
so-called consortium of very large banks and their lackies the
branded credit card companies issued a detailed plan to put
strong cryptography into the hands of every statistically
creditworthy human being on the planet. In issuing the Secure
Electronic Transaction (SET) protocol, this cabal of
transnational, stateless seekers of interest income and
acquisition discounts have detailed a plan by which every
merchant which accepts credit cards, every institution which
issues them, and incredibly every individual who posesses them
would be able to register and share public keys. Going far
beyond the puny efforts of the "cypherpunks" who established
primitive pretty good privacy key servers and built a web of
trust over the past several years, the International Banking
Conspiracy is attempting to set up a gargantuan web of
certificate authorities to support individuals and corporations
in the publication of their cryptographic identities.
The unpatriotic stools of this conspiracy within our own US
government are expected to legitimize this unholy plan by
permitting the wholesale export of SET-related products under
the guise that SET is purely a financial transaction processing
system. However, over time it will become clear that this was
the beginning of the end.
The SET co-conspirators have made it abundantly clear in their
specification that the financial security and viability of their
entire initiative relies on the absolute privacy of each
individual's personal keys. This explicit rejection of the
sharing of keys effectively rules out key escrow schemes for
SET.
After an unprecedented global training excercise, in which the
Banking Conspiracy will inculcate the imperative that private
keys must NEVER be shared with anyone (or else your credit cards
will be cancelled or your merchant status revoked), and after
worldwide rollout of products intended to allow secret
communications over any network connection including the
backbone internet, the public telephone system, radio channels,
through corporate and national firewalls, and even by "carrier
pigeon" the "consortium" will exend the SET protocol to allow
the sending of so-called EDI messages (communications which can
be effectively on any topic between any two parties)
over the established global secret network. An age of secure
private communications will be ushered in.
And then...separate SET-protocol webs will be established where
the "CAs", "merchants" and "cardholders" are simply pseudonyms
for...revolutionary forces intent on trafficing in guns,
laundering money and replacing world governments with child
pornographers, drugs lords and terrorists. Seemingly innocent
browser software installed everywhere will become the tool of
evildoers to invisibly conduct their own global conspiracies.
Only then, too late, will the Banking Conspiracy realize that
they no longer control the planet and that in true Hegelian
fashion their great idea contained the seeds of its own
destruction.
Don't say I didn't warn you!
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=zdfI
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----------
The e$ lists are brought to you by:
Intertrader Ltd: "Digital Money Online"
Where people, networks and money come together: Consult Hyperion
http://www.hyperion.co.uk info at hyperion.co.uk
Like e$? Help pay for it!
For e$/e$pam sponsorship, mail Bob:
Thanks to the e$ e$lves:
Of Counsel: Vinnie Moscaritolo
(Majordomo)^2: Rachel Willmer
Commermeister: Anthony Templer
Interturge: Rodney Thayer
--- end forwarded text
-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah at shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/
From stewarts at ix.netcom.com Fri Jul 4 10:49:15 1997
From: stewarts at ix.netcom.com (Bill Stewart)
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 01:49:15 +0800
Subject: ISP signatures on outgoing mail
In-Reply-To: <199707031614.SAA27700@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19970704104000.006ba75c@popd.ix.netcom.com>
At 06:14 PM 7/3/97 +0200, Anonymous wrote:
>Anyone heard of a proposal for ISPs to automatically sign outgoing
>mail headers? Problem has been that spammers send email by one
>path but forge a reply-to or from address at another location.
Flat-out can't work. The problem is that you can send
SMTP directly from your machine to its destination,
so the ISP only routes the IP packets and doesn't read them.
It's popular for mail clients like Eudora and Netscape to
send all their mail to an SMTP forwarder, but the main
reasons to do that are to move the complicated work
to a machine that's on line all the time and smart enough
to deal with problems like retrying mail to systems that
don't answer, generating meaningful error messages when
the destination can't accept the mail, forwarding to
systems off in uucp-space, etc. So it's perfectly
reasonable for mail from joeuser at aol.com to originate
on Joe's PC, with no way for AOL to sign it.
There's also the problem of misconfigured Win95 machines,
where either the operating system or the operator
aren't bright enough to send the correct machine name.
For instance, this mail comes from ca07b8bl.bns.att.com,
as any system that records the HELO messages will tell you,
because when my laptop is at work, that's it's name on the LAN.
Netcom's SMTP forwarder only identifies it by IP and DNS
pax-ca8-10.ix.netcom.com(204.30.66.74) address of the
dialup port it connected to, though other servers I've
used have also passed along, or at least recorded, the ca07b8bl.
Digital signatures take a lot of calculation,
and while CPUs keep getting cheaper, mail volume keeps getting larger.
It's difficult to make server-based signing scale well, especially for the
bigger ISPs. Netcom's farm of mail servers is large and slow enough already.
You could try to force the user to sign the mail,
using a signature certified by the ISP, and only forward email
that's from or to your subscribers - but checking signatures still
requires about as much calculation, and the cheaper approach of
looking at the signature key without really checking the signature
is easily forged.
# Thanks; Bill
# Bill Stewart, +1-415-442-2215 stewarts at ix.netcom.com
# You can get PGP outside the US at ftp.ox.ac.uk/pub/crypto/pgp
# (If this is a mailing list or news, please Cc: me on replies. Thanks.)
From rah at shipwright.com Fri Jul 4 11:01:12 1997
From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga)
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 02:01:12 +0800
Subject: e$: $MTP?
Message-ID:
--- begin forwarded text
Sender: e$@thumper.vmeng.com
Reply-To: Robert Hettinga
Mime-Version: 1.0
Precedence: Bulk
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 09:21:12 -0400
From: Robert Hettinga
To: Multiple recipients of
Subject: e$: $MTP?
They've been talking on cypherpunks about various ideas for authenticating
the sender of mail, and it brings up something I've been increasing my
agit-prop efforts on lately.
Unfortunately, the ultimate way for any e-mail authentication scheme to
work is for the *whole* message to be signed, headers and all, and then for
the sending SMTP server to sign the message passes it on, headers and all,
and so forth. The consequences of this approach, in terms of machine
resources, not to mention privacy (plus or minus how close you can get to
perfect pseudonymity), will probably be excessive.
The solution, here, I think, is economic, since this is, at root, an
economic problem. It's also one we've talked about here at length on e$.
That solution is postage.
If you use some kind of hash-collision microcoin protocol like
Rivest/Shamir's MicroMint, or the "hash-cash" stuff people have been
talking about on cypherpunks, you end up with a completely off-line,
extremely small value digital cash system which could be used to pay for
stuff like e-mail postage. The only thing you need to do is to encrypt the
payment to the $MTP (:-)) machine, which then sends your mail. The only
overhead is in handling the money, and, since it's handled offline anyway,
the overhead is going to be much less than authenticating signatures either
with an internal table, or, worse, in an on-line scheme of some kind.
However you do the protocol, you probably want to run it on a sender-pays
basis, as that's where all the economic incentive to spam comes from.
Actually, now that I think about it, a truly sender-pays system would mean
that receiver-collects, and so the *receiving* $MTP machine would be the
one which should actually get the money. This is not too far from the idea
of getting paid to read mail, which has also been discussed on cypherpunks
before. The receiving $MTP machine could even raise or lower its postage
price depending on the load at the time, thus auctioning its processing
resources to the highest bidder. People like e-mail spammers, needing to
send messages to you very cheaply would have to wait until the price comes
down. Some of them could wait a very long time. :-).
Frankly, I see no other solution to this problem in the long run except for
postage, which means it's probably time to start figuring out, in earnest,
how to make it all work. Whoever becomes the lowest cost producer of this
kind of software stands to make a whole *bunch* of money.
Cheers,
Bob Hettinga
-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah at shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/
----------
The e$ lists are brought to you by:
Intertrader Ltd: "Digital Money Online"
Where people, networks and money come together: Consult Hyperion
http://www.hyperion.co.uk info at hyperion.co.uk
Like e$? Help pay for it!
For e$/e$pam sponsorship, mail Bob:
Thanks to the e$ e$lves:
Of Counsel: Vinnie Moscaritolo
(Majordomo)^2: Rachel Willmer
Commermeister: Anthony Templer
Interturge: Rodney Thayer
--- end forwarded text
-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah at shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/
From cypherpunks at toad.com Fri Jul 4 11:51:52 1997
From: cypherpunks at toad.com (Cypherpunks)
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 02:51:52 +0800
Subject: Welcome to Cypherpunks! / Re: hi
In-Reply-To: <199707041205.OAA16771@tic.silab.dsi.unimi.it>
Message-ID: <33BD3E9C.1A3B@toad.com>
Moreno Daltin wrote:
> hi everybody !
Welcome to the
Cypherpunks Mailing List (TcM)
------------------------
Your initial post to the list has been digitally classified by the
Cypherpunks Automated Response system in order to determine the initial
level of reputation capital you will be awarded as a new member of the
Cypherpunks Mailing List (TcM).
Your initial entry level on the Cypherpunks Mailing List (TcM) will be:
*** Level 2 ***
MORON
*** Level 2 ***
Level 2 is the lowest entry level available. From Level 2, you may
move up to other levels, at which the pinnacle is Cypherpunk Elite, or
down to Level 1, which each member of the Cypherpunks Mailing List (TcM)
has his or her own pet name for.
Your reputation capital is increased or decreased according to the
quality and frequency of your posts. (Please note that, as is the case
with one's private parts, bigger is not necessarily better.)
_______________________
Warning & Disclaimer!!!
-----------------------
The "Cypherpunks Mailing List (TcM) Level Classification System" (TM)
is based on the "Snow Anarchistic Rating System"...the "Paul Bradley
MiniAnarchist Rating System"...ad infinitum...since it is a random,
daily changing composite of the rating systems of each individual
Cypherpunk.
Thus, once again, the higher levels are not necessarily better and you
may be subject to support and praise, or attack and condemnation, no
matter what the content or quality of your posts. The source of your
support on the list, or the attacks against you, may change from time
to time depending on which list member is having a "Bad Algorithm Day."
Also be advised that due to the highly technical nature of some of the
mathematical concepts addressed on the list, it is possible to move
beyond Level 0 (Flame Ony/No Content) and into negative levels of
reputation capital such as Level -1 (where your Doppleganger sends
10 copies of your own posts back to you).
At Reputation Capital levels below -1, you may be subjected to shame,
humiliation and filtering to the point where the only hope for your
posts being read is for you to post to the list anonymously, as a
"Monger" of one sort or another.
In conclusion, "Welcome to the list, _MORON_!"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Personal Note to Level 2 Entrants from Tim C. May, Philosopher King:
"Welcome to the Cypherpunks Mailing List (TcM).
"If you check the archives, you will find that I said "hi" to the
list back in 1992. In the future, please give me proper credit for the
quote when saying "hi" to the list."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Personal Note to Level 2 Entrants from Dr. Dimitri Vulis, KOTM:
"When sending ASCII Art slams against Timmy C. Mayo to the list, it
is not necessary to give me proper credit, as I will be given full
credit for it automatically, anyway.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Personal Note to Level 2 Entrants from Robert Hettinga, e$Czar:
"Don't bother giving me credit for my quotes. Nobody else does, and
I'm used to blowing my own horn, anyway."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
*** "Cypherpunks Mailing List" is a (Trade{cocksucker}Mark) of the
Electronic Forgery Foundation, and any abuse of this (TcM) will be
considered normal behavior on this list. ***
From jya at pipeline.com Fri Jul 4 12:13:46 1997
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 03:13:46 +0800
Subject: Crypto Risks and Rewards
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970704185701.006eac80@pop.pipeline.com>
Senators Lott, Burns and Ashcroft discussed encryption
policy reform on June 27. The Deschall crack is cited as
a risk posed by Admin-McCain-Kerrey limitations. Ashcroft
stated:
I am privileged to serve on the Senate Judiciary Committee
where we will address this issue after the July recess. I
pledge to work with members on that Committee and with
other interested Senators and the leader to try to move a
bill in that committee that will capture the essence of Burns
substitute.
No nationwide key recovery system, or a new licensing
requirement for certificate authorities should be brought
to the floor without thorough examination, analysis and
understanding. We must further study the impact of these
provisions well before this bill is brought to the Senate floor.
For full report:
http://jya.com/crypto-pr.txt (14K)
----------
The Law Society of England and Wales has published a
response to the March DTI risky biz for Trusted Third Parties:
http://jya.com/ttp-lawsoc.htm
----------
For the article Robert Hettinga cited by Thomas Vartanian
on the risks offering CA services:
http://jya.com/ca-risks.htm
Recall that Mr. Vartanian provided the NSA paper, "How to
Make a Mint, the Cryptography of Electronic Money:"
http://jya.com/nsamint.htm
From randerso at ece.eng.wayne.edu Fri Jul 4 12:50:51 1997
From: randerso at ece.eng.wayne.edu (Ryan Anderson)
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 03:50:51 +0800
Subject: e$: $MTP? (fwd)
Message-ID:
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 15:45:24 -0400 (edt)
From: Ryan Anderson
To: Robert Hettinga
Subject: Re: e$: $MTP?
> Frankly, I see no other solution to this problem in the long run except for
> postage, which means it's probably time to start figuring out, in earnest,
> how to make it all work. Whoever becomes the lowest cost producer of this
> kind of software stands to make a whole *bunch* of money.
We still need to work out how to fit mailing lists fit into this without
eliminating them entirely. Chargebacks to the subscribers? If this list
will work in a proposed plan, I think all the others probably would as
well.. :-)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ryan Anderson - "Who knows, even the horse might sing"
Wayne State University - CULMA "May you live in interesting times.."
randerso at ece.eng.wayne.edu Ohio = VYI of the USA
PGP Fingerprint - 7E 8E C6 54 96 AC D9 57 E4 F8 AE 9C 10 7E 78 C9
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From bennett_t1 at popmail.firn.edu Fri Jul 4 15:18:26 1997
From: bennett_t1 at popmail.firn.edu (bennett_t1 at popmail.firn.edu)
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 06:18:26 +0800
Subject: Clinton nixes domestic encryption right
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID: <33BD81AF.426D5541@popmail.firn.edu>
Robert Hettinga wrote:
> --- begin forwarded text
>
> X-Sender: tbell at cato.org
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 17:10:46 -0400
> Reply-To: Law & Policy of Computer Communications
>
> Sender: Law & Policy of Computer Communications
>
> From: "Tom W. Bell"
> Subject: Re: Clinton nixes domestic encryption right
> To: CYBERIA-L at LISTSERV.AOL.COM
>
> Phill writes:
>
> >Stuart Baker claims that Gore is the main administration supporter of
> GAK.
> >But others have claimed the exact opposite. I suspect that if Gore
> really
> >supported the GAK idea he would do so publically and explicitly, its
> a vote
> >winner.
>
> For what it's worth, I had dinner Monday with two people from Gore's
> office
> and one of Microsoft's officers. The Gore people consistently
> demanded
> mandatory key escrow, though they seemed willing to allow private
> parties to
> do the job so long as GAK remained an option. The Microsoft person
> only
> went so far as to offer to always make key escrow a *feature*
"Sir, the government getting your keys *isn't* a bug, it's a feature in
case you have to recover them. Will the government use them illegally?
No, sir, why would they want to do that?"
> , arguing that
> this would in practice get the administration all the GAK it wants
> because
> almost everyone would want to escrow their private keys.
ROFLMAO.
> The debate unfolded something like this:
>
> Gore people: "People using really strong encryption will *want* to
> escrow
> their keys. Otherwise, lost keys will result in irretrievably lost
> data."
And so that gorny geeks at the NSA can read mails relating to a grope in
the store room.
> MS person: "Oh, sure--especially commerical players. But you
> underestimate
> the amount of resistance *mandated* escrowing will create. People
> want to
> *choose* to escrow. If you let them, they will."
I choose to never escrow my keys. It's my business, no one elses to
read my mail.
> Gore people: "Well, if they're going to escrow anyhow, what's the
> problem
> with mandating it?"
> MS person: "You don't get it. Our customers care deeply about their
> encryption rights, and we want happy customers. If the administration
> will
> just back off, it will get what it wants--or, at least, as much as it
> can at
> any rate expect."
>
> It presented a classic case of cultural conflict--in this case,
> political
> cultural confronting commercial culture.
To quote TV's Butt-Head, from Beavis & Butt-head: "Some people are
dumb."
> Tom W. Bell
> -----------
> tbell at cato.org
> Director, Telecommunications and Technology Studies
> The Cato Institute
>
> --- end forwarded text
>
> -----------------
> Robert Hettinga (rah at shipwright.com), Philodox
> e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
> "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
> [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
> experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
> The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/
From azur at netcom.com Fri Jul 4 15:23:09 1997
From: azur at netcom.com (Steve Schear)
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 06:23:09 +0800
Subject: e$: $MTP? (fwd)
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:
At 3:45 PM -0400 7/4/97, Ryan Anderson wrote:
>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 15:45:24 -0400 (edt)
>From: Ryan Anderson
>To: Robert Hettinga
>Subject: Re: e$: $MTP?
>
>> Frankly, I see no other solution to this problem in the long run except for
>> postage, which means it's probably time to start figuring out, in earnest,
>> how to make it all work. Whoever becomes the lowest cost producer of this
>> kind of software stands to make a whole *bunch* of money.
>
>We still need to work out how to fit mailing lists fit into this without
>eliminating them entirely. Chargebacks to the subscribers? If this list
>will work in a proposed plan, I think all the others probably would as
>well.. :-)
If the email program (client or $MTP) creates/maintains a 'known party'
list which isn't expected to include postage this solves the mailing list
problem.
--Steve
PGP mail preferred
Fingerprint: FE 90 1A 95 9D EA 8D 61 81 2E CC A9 A4 4A FB A9
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Schear | tel: (702) 658-2654
CEO | fax: (702) 658-2673
First ECache Corporation |
7075 West Gowan Road |
Suite 2148 |
Las Vegas, NV 89129 | Internet: azur at netcom.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------
I know not what instruments others may use,
but as for me, give me Ecache or give me debt.
SHOW ME THE DIGITS!
From bennett_t1 at popmail.firn.edu Fri Jul 4 15:36:39 1997
From: bennett_t1 at popmail.firn.edu (bennett_t1 at popmail.firn.edu)
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 06:36:39 +0800
Subject: hi
In-Reply-To: <199707041205.OAA16771@tic.silab.dsi.unimi.it>
Message-ID: <33BD8329.3E478C4D@popmail.firn.edu>
Moreno Daltin wrote:
> hi everybody !
What? Who the hell are you?
God, so stupid crap like this can come from .mil domains, from AOLers,
and now from somewhere else.
From ravage at ssz.com Fri Jul 4 15:57:47 1997
From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 06:57:47 +0800
Subject: index.html
Message-ID: <199707042234.RAA16340@einstein.ssz.com>
CNN logo
navigation
Infoseek/Big Yellow
Pathfinder/Warner Bros
Tech banner Serving up Internet solutions @ www.wimbledon.org
rule
GERMANY PASSES WORLD'S FIRST CYBERSPACE LAW
graphic July 4, 1997
Web posted at: 4:10 p.m. EDT (2010 GMT)
BONN, Germany (AP) -- Germany on Friday became the first country to
pass a law regulating the free-wheeling global electronic space of
the Internet.
Chancellor Helmut Kohl's government says the so-called multimedia
law creates legal clarity that will help boost commercialization of
cyberspace and combats illegal uses of the Internet such as for
pornography.
Critics say the law is an example of Germany's urge to regulate and
may in fact deter investors in Internet services because it does not
state clearly to what extent the providers would be liable for
content they don't control.
The law gained final approval in the upper house of parliament, the
Bundesrat, an unusually swift six months after the government
proposed it. It takes effect August 1.
"We are entering uncharted territory," said Joerg Appelhans,
spokesman for Germany's research and technology ministry.
Controversially, the law says online providers can be prosecuted for
offering a venue for illegal content if they do so knowingly and it
is "technically possible and reasonable" to prevent it.
This could apply to forums and similar exchanges offered by online
services without direct control over their content.
However, "the liability provisions for providers are a big unknown,"
said Christopher Kuner, an Frankfurt attorney specializing in
cyberspace issues. "It leaves a lot of things open."
The American Chamber of Commerce in Germany says liability for
Internet services will have to be tested by court rulings, which
"may cause prudent investors to hesitate."
But research and technology minister Juergen Ruettgers said a law
was needed, partly to protect German children.
"That applies even to a network that knows no national borders," he
said. "The Internet is not outside the reach of the law."
Copyright 1997 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This
material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or
redistributed. rule
Related stories:
* Countries face cyber-control in their own ways - July 1, 1997
* Supreme Court strikes down Internet smut law - June 26, 1997
Search for related CNN stories:
________________________________________ ______ [Help]
Tip: You can restrict your search to the title of a document.
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From netpiracy at spa.org Fri Jul 4 16:07:41 1997
From: netpiracy at spa.org (Spam Me)
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 07:07:41 +0800
Subject: Jeff's Side of the Story.
In-Reply-To: <199707030110.DAA05747@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID: <199707030110.DAA05747@spa.org>
nobody at replay.com (Anonymous) wrote:
> Who was it that used the threat of a lawsuit to shut down the
> remailer?
> I, for one, would be more than happy to make certain that they
> receive ample opportunity to "Make $$Money$$ Fast!!" by receiving
> a mountain of information as to how to do so.
They're probably receiving plenty of spam right about now. (see From: line)
From rah at shipwright.com Fri Jul 4 16:14:39 1997
From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga)
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 07:14:39 +0800
Subject: Welcome to Cypherpunks! / Re: hi
In-Reply-To: <199707041205.OAA16771@tic.silab.dsi.unimi.it>
Message-ID:
At 2:19 pm -0400 on 7/4/97, Cypherpunks wrote:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Personal Note to Level 2 Entrants from Robert Hettinga, e$Czar:
> "Don't bother giving me credit for my quotes. Nobody else does, and
> I'm used to blowing my own horn, anyway."
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Say 'amen', somebody.
Oh. I just did, didn't I?
Never mind...
Ironically,
Bob Hettinga
-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah at shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/
From nobody at REPLAY.COM Fri Jul 4 17:43:50 1997
From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 08:43:50 +0800
Subject: Fuck the Fourth (and the First, Second....)
Message-ID: <199707050032.CAA08156@basement.replay.com>
Vin Suprynowicz wrote:
> Most Americans should be ashamed to celebrate the Fourth
> Recently, President Clinton's then-Drug Czar, Lee Brown, told me the role
> of government is to protect the people from dangers, such as drugs. I
> corrected him, saying, "No, the role of government is to protect our
> liberties."
>
> "We'll just have to disagree on that," the president's appointee said.
Since the government was incapable of protecting either the people
at Waco or those at OKC, then who exactly are they protecting?
> The War for American Independence began over unregistered, untaxed guns,
> when British forces attempted to seize arsenals of rifles, powder and ball
> from the hands of ill-organized Patriot militias in Lexington and Concord.
> American civilians shot and killed scores of these government agents as
> they marched back to Boston. Are those Minutemen still our heroes? Or do we
> now consider them "dangerous terrorists" and "depraved government-haters"?
We consider them Branch Davadians.
> In "The Federalist" No. 46, James Madison told us we need have no fear of
> any federal tyranny ever taking away our rights, arguing that under his
> proposed Constitution "the ultimate authority ... resides in the people
> alone," and predicting that any usurpation of powers not specifically
> delegated would lead to "plans of resistance" and "appeal to a trial of
> force."
This was before Dan Rather and Kookie Roberts became "the ultimate
authority." Since they have to compete with Bart Simpson for ratings,
their primary interest is in making sure that the citizens don't "have
a cow" during their broadcast.
{"Today, all rights and freedoms of the citizens were suspended by
Executive Order. And, in the lighter side of the news..." }
> Another prominent federalist, Noah Webster, wrote in 1787: "Before a
> standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost
> every kingdom in Europe."
Adolph Hitler obviously understood what Noah Webster was writing
about.
If we could get the writings made into a TV movie (or a cartoon), there
might be a minute chance to get the American public to understand, as
well.
> In Phoenix last week, an air conditioner repairman and former Military
> Policeman named Chuck Knight was convicted by jurors -- some tearful -- who
> said they "had no choice" under the judge's instructions, on a single
> federal "conspiracy" count of associating with others who owned automatic
> rifles on which they had failed to pay a $200 "transfer tax" -- after a
> trial in which defense attorney Ivan Abrams says he was forbidden to bring
> up the Second Amendment as a defense.
>
> Were the Viper Militia readying "plans of resistance," as recommended by
> Mr. Madison? Would the Constitution ever have been ratified, had Mr.
> Madison and his fellow federalists warned the citizens that such
> non-violent preparations would get their weapons seized, and land them in
> jail for decades?
>
> Happy Fourth of July.
>
> Vin Suprynowicz is the assistant editorial page editor of the Las Vegas
> Review-Journal. Readers may contact him via e-mail at vin at lvrj.com. The web
> site for the Suprynowicz column is at http://www.nguworld.com/vindex/.
Is it still legal to say this stuff? Perhaps we need a new law that...
TruthMonger
From jito at eccosys.com Fri Jul 4 18:21:02 1997
From: jito at eccosys.com (Joichi Ito)
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 09:21:02 +0800
Subject: Key Recovery Policy in Japan
Message-ID: <199707050110.KAA14212@eccosys.com>
Hi folks. I'm on a Japanese National Police Agency study group board working
on proposals for Key Recovery policy in Japan. The only documents that
are currently being reviewed are rather official OECD type documents
from the US and I am trying to find other opinions (technical, legal,
political) which I can add to the reports/documents being reviewed by
the panel.
Any pointers or opinions would be greatly appreciated. My deadline for
submitting materials is 7/11 and I will be giving my verbal opinions
on 7/28.
Thanks in advance.
- Joi
P.S. I am also working with politicians, the Ministry of Posts and Telecom,
The Ministry of International Trade and Industry, and several other
ministries as well in similar policy areas. So even after 7/11, please
point me at anything (or point anything at me) that you would like the
Japanese policy makers to consider. Lots of stuff is currently being
reviewed in Japan in this area in the wake of the stuff going on the
US.
--
home page: http://domino.garage.co.jp/jito/joihome.nsf
bithaus: http://www.bithaus.co.jp/
From nobody at REPLAY.COM Fri Jul 4 19:41:20 1997
From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 10:41:20 +0800
Subject: Key Recovery Policy in Japan
Message-ID: <199707050229.EAA20948@basement.replay.com>
Joichi Ito wrote:
>
> Hi folks. I'm on a Japanese National Police Agency study group board working
> on proposals for Key Recovery policy in Japan. The only documents that
> are currently being reviewed are rather official OECD type documents
> from the US and I am trying to find other opinions (technical, legal,
> political) which I can add to the reports/documents being reviewed by
> the panel.
{Excerpt from "The Xenix Chainsaw Massacre" (c) 1989, Pearl Publishing}
http://bureau42.base.org/public/xenix
We now live in an age where, in between the slumber of the soap operas
and the bewitchment of 'prime time,' we are fed our opinions and our
world-views in catch-phrases and ten second sound-bytes.
At the same time, Gomez sees to it that there is enough trouble and
turmoil in the world that the World Leaders, even in democracies, can
chip away at human and individual rights under the guise of dealing
with various 'threats' that they, themselves, have concocted as a
means of retaining power over the masses.
Even as the governments of the world strive to bring everyone and
everything, however minute, under tight control and regulation, Gomez
and the Dark Allies are behind the scenes, helping to guide the
development of a technology that will, along with television, be the
ultimate weapon in their struggle for the domination of all mankind--the
Computer.
The rich and powerful have managed to lull us to sleep with the
hypnotizing power of television---stealing our thoughts and our
reasoning processes in our slumber, feeding us our reality via the
airwaves...according to the 'official' party line.
The government and the media have placed us on neat little shelves
where we are numbered and labeled according to their own wants and
needs. We are allowed the illusion of freedom of thought, and individual
choice, as long as we have our 'Freedom of Thought Permit 1136.51.709'
and don't stray too far from the permitted paths.
In the great battles of the past the Dark Forces have always been
beaten by the individuals scattered in the secret places, living
unnoticed in obscurity. Living quietly and unobtrusively, forgotten
about in the madness storming the land, they have kept alive the spark
of Thought and Reason. They were able to go quietly about their work,
making contact with the individuals who were ready to escape the madness
and work towards restoring Sanity in the land.
This time there will be no escape. Every man, woman and child on the
face of the earth will have a dossier documenting their life from the
time of their arrival on the face of the planet.
Information gleaned from the Department of Motor Vehicles, their Social
Security Number, banks, credit cards, magazine subscriptions, charitable
and political contributions.
When Gomez removes the masks of his human allies, revealing them as
dark agents who have been rewarded with wealth and power for doing the
bidding of the Evil One, the names of the misfits and wrong-thinkers
will be spit out of the computers at the speed of light---to be rounded
up and disposed of in the opening salvo of the new Holocaust.
Only then will the final Battle of Armageddon begin, ravaging the face
of the earth and devouring humanity; bringing total control of humankind
under the Dominion of the Evil One, with nobody but the Waking Dead left
to carry on the human race.
*** *** ***
{Excerpt from "Webworld" (c) 1997, Pearl Publishing}
http://bureau42.base.org/public/webworld
Prologue to 'WebWorld & The Mythical Circle of Eunuchs'
The great tragedy of it, is that it didn't have to happen. Not at
all...we were warned.
And yet, still, it has come to this.
I don't know why I feel this overwhelming compulsion to go on and on
about it. I could have done something.
We all could have done something.
Perhaps the final epitaph on the gravestone of Freedom will be,
"Why didn't somebody _do_ something?"
That seems to be the common battle-cry of the legions of humanity that
have been sucked into the vortex of the New World Order.
None of the imprisoned seem to know that the very phrase itself is
reflective of the source of their imprisonment...that this desperate
cry of anguish is in no way an antidote for the terrible disease that
has afflicted 'Liberty and Justice', and that it is, rather, merely the
final symptom of the cursed blight itself.
I can hear the rumbling of the trucks as they come up the street, and
soon I will be hearing the thumping of the jackboots storming up the
staircase, as I have heard them so many times before. But I suspect
that this time, the sound will be different, that it will have an
ethereal quality about it, one which conveys greater personal meaning
than it did when I heard it on previous occasions.
This time, they are coming for me.
My only hope, is that I can find the strength of character somewhere
inside myself to ask the question which lies at the heart of why there
is a 'they' to come for me at all...why, in the end, it has finally
come to this for me, as for countless others.
The question is, in retrospect, as simple and basic as it is essential
for any who still espouse the concepts of freedom and liberty to ask
themselves upon finding themselves marveling at the outrageousness
being perpetrated upon their neighbors by 'them'...by 'others'...by
'Friends of the Destroyer.'
The question is:
"Why didn't _I_ do something?"
From froomkin at law.miami.edu Fri Jul 4 21:12:30 1997
From: froomkin at law.miami.edu (Michael Froomkin - U.Miami School of Law)
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 12:12:30 +0800
Subject: Key Recovery Policy in Japan
In-Reply-To: <199707050110.KAA14212@eccosys.com>
Message-ID:
Greetings!
In addition to
http://www.law.miami.edu/~froomkin/articles/planet_clipper.htm
I suggest
http://www.crypto.com/key_study/report.shtml
Also, other interesting links from
http://www.crypto.com
A. Michael Froomkin | +1 (305) 284-4285; +1 (305) 284-6506 (fax)
Associate Professor of Law | "Cyberspace" is not a place.
U. Miami School of Law | froomkin at law.miami.edu
P.O. Box 248087 | http://www.law.miami.edu/~froomkin
Coral Gables, FL 33124 USA | It's @%#$%$# hot here.
From nobody at REPLAY.COM Fri Jul 4 21:42:05 1997
From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 12:42:05 +0800
Subject: Welcome to Cypherpunks! / Re: hi
In-Reply-To: <199707041205.OAA16771@tic.silab.dsi.unimi.it>
Message-ID: <199707050423.GAA04323@basement.replay.com>
On Fri, Jul 04, 1997 at 04:02:30PM -0400, Robert Hettinga wrote:
> At 2:19 pm -0400 on 7/4/97, Cypherpunks wrote:
>
>
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Personal Note to Level 2 Entrants from Robert Hettinga, e$Czar:
> > "Don't bother giving me credit for my quotes. Nobody else does, and
> > I'm used to blowing my own horn, anyway."
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Say 'amen', somebody.
>
> Oh. I just did, didn't I?
>
> Never mind...
>
> Ironically,
> Bob Hettinga
Robert Pettinga is also well known for the odd, brick-like shape of
his head, and his penchant for shoving it into dark places.
TruthMonger
From relay at relaynet.com Sat Jul 5 14:37:39 1997
From: relay at relaynet.com (relay at relaynet.com)
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 14:37:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: The easiest credit repair and improvement kit
Message-ID: <199707052127.QAA23148@mailhost.chicago.il.ameritech.net>
Hey Everybody!!!
If you will be applying for a mortgage (or, any other kind of
loan) soon, or, if you have been denied credit recently, or,
if you suspect that your credit report contains errors, you
will find this credit repair kit incredibly useful.
The easiest do-it-yourself credit repair kit, C-Repair, was
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if you have been denied credit. It also provides information
on your rights and consumer credit related laws.
For more details visit us on the Web (Sometimes this site gets
very busy. If you get an error, just try us back at a later
time, or, e-mail us at the address given below). Our homepage
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e-mail you a free, no obligation demo copy. Please e-mail us
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=============================================================
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=============================================================
From randerso at ece.eng.wayne.edu Sat Jul 5 00:30:50 1997
From: randerso at ece.eng.wayne.edu (Ryan Anderson)
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 15:30:50 +0800
Subject: e$: $MTP?
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:
On Fri, 4 Jul 1997, Robert Hettinga wrote:
> > We still need to work out how to fit mailing lists fit into this without
> > eliminating them entirely. Chargebacks to the subscribers? If this list
> > will work in a proposed plan, I think all the others probably would as
> > well.. :-)
>
> Send 'em collect? Postage due? :-).
>
> Or, maybe people buy subscriptions? Of course, since you're collecting the
> postage, you owe it to yourself...
>
> Curioser and curiouser...
Well, as a thought, I'm on BugTraq as well, and it periodically forces you
to renew your subscription to the list. If everything required this (or
some sort of it) you could simply charge a large amount for the renewals,
based on expected cost over the next time period. Your initial
subscription would be costed based upon the average of all the
subscribers.
This might be the simplest way, though charging a bunch for a specific
message could be complicated..
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ryan Anderson - "Who knows, even the horse might sing"
Wayne State University - CULMA "May you live in interesting times.."
randerso at ece.eng.wayne.edu Ohio = VYI of the USA
PGP Fingerprint - 7E 8E C6 54 96 AC D9 57 E4 F8 AE 9C 10 7E 78 C9
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From nobody at REPLAY.COM Sat Jul 5 02:09:48 1997
From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 17:09:48 +0800
Subject: NoneRe: Liberating the Bits
In-Reply-To: <199707012155.XAA06734@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID: <199707050902.LAA02031@basement.replay.com>
Tim May wrote:
> I have copied to DAT (Digital Audio Tape) several hundred CDs. And a friend
> of mine has really gone overboard, copying more than 4000 CDs (rock, blues,
> jazz, country, you name it) onto more than 1000 DATs.
>
> Given that a new CD typically costs about $16 US, and a blank DAT tape
> costs about $4 for a 3-hour tape, the savings are spectacular. (My friend
> uses a lot of the 4-hour DATs, but I don't trust them. They jam in some
> machines.)
You mean you don't just get the mp3 files off the internet like everyone
else? :)
Why would anyone want to use DAT, when you can just stick the CD in your
computer and copy it. Hard disks are so much faster than tapes, and when
you consider data compression, don't cost much more.
I have hundreds of songs on my computer and I can start playing any one of
them in about 2 seconds. Plus I can search by title, etc... Tapes are a
pain in the ass and I just use them for backups.
From paul at fatmans.demon.co.uk Sat Jul 5 05:11:30 1997
From: paul at fatmans.demon.co.uk (Paul Bradley)
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 20:11:30 +0800
Subject: e$: $MTP? (fwd)
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:
> > Frankly, I see no other solution to this problem in the long run except for
> > postage, which means it's probably time to start figuring out, in earnest,
> > how to make it all work. Whoever becomes the lowest cost producer of this
> > kind of software stands to make a whole *bunch* of money.
>
> We still need to work out how to fit mailing lists fit into this without
> eliminating them entirely. Chargebacks to the subscribers? If this list
> will work in a proposed plan, I think all the others probably would as
> well.. :-)
I personally see hashcash as the ideal way to solve this problem, and in
Adam Back`s analysis of the hashcash solution he mentions mailing lists
and suggest that filtering software have an explicit "filter in" command,
so you could eliminate any mail coming from the list from needing to have
cash attached. Of course the spammers could then just spam mailing lists,
but that it a much smaller problem than the current random UCE problem.
Datacomms Technologies data security
Paul Bradley, Paul at fatmans.demon.co.uk
Paul at crypto.uk.eu.org, Paul at cryptography.uk.eu.org
Http://www.cryptography.home.ml.org/
Email for PGP public key, ID: FC76DA85
"Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey"
From rah at shipwright.com Sat Jul 5 05:57:59 1997
From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga)
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 20:57:59 +0800
Subject: Welcome to Cypherpunks! / Re: hi
In-Reply-To: <199707041205.OAA16771@tic.silab.dsi.unimi.it>
Message-ID:
At 12:23 am -0400 on 7/5/97, TruthMonger wrote:
> Robert Pettinga is also well known for the odd, brick-like shape of
> his head, and his penchant for shoving it into dark places.
Lementing another missed felching opportunity, Mister Monger?
Cheers,
Bob Hettinga
-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah at shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/
From jya at pipeline.com Sat Jul 5 06:30:47 1997
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 21:30:47 +0800
Subject: Walsh Report Update
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970705130917.006a7104@pop.pipeline.com>
Forward:
Date: Sat, 05 Jul 1997 14:19:59 +1000
To: jya at pipeline.com
From: gtaylor at gil.com.au (Greg Taylor )
Subject: Walsh Report mirror
John,
Electronic Frontiers Australia has now been able to "officially" release the
Walsh Report, after negotiating copyright permissions.
It is now available at:
http://www.efa.org.au/Issues/Crypto/Walsh/
There are two versions provided:
1. A multiple file version suited to reading online.
2. A complete version (267K HTML) suitable for downloading.
These versions have some updates from the original so I suggest you replace
your mirror version with the amended versions we have now released. The
main changes are:
1. The Terms and Abbreviations section has now been marked up.
2. Paragraphs deleted from the copy liberated under FOI are now annotated
with references to the relevant sections of the FOIA.
3. Minor typos corrected.
Regards,
Greg Taylor
Chair
EFA Crypto Committee
----------
The July 1 version of the Walsh Report at jya.com has been replaced
with the EFA version:
http://jya.com/walsh-all.htm (270K)
Or a Zip-compressed file:
http://jya.com/walsh-all.zip (88K)
See related news article:
http://jya.com/walsh.htm
From rah at shipwright.com Sat Jul 5 06:55:48 1997
From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga)
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 21:55:48 +0800
Subject: InfoWorld discovers reputation capital
Message-ID:
--- begin forwarded text
Date: Sat, 05 Jul 1997 09:00:32 -0400
From: Robert Hettinga
Reply-To: rah at shipwright.com
Organization: The Shipwright Development Corporation
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rah at shipwright.com
Subject: InfoWorld discovers reputation capital
http://www.infoworld.com/cgi-bin/displayStory.pl?97073.eabi.htm
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="displayStory.pl"
Content-Disposition: inline; filename="displayStory.pl"
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by lbo.leftbank.com id
IAA11662
[Image] [Click here to download free Microsoft Visual FoxPro tools!]
[| Navigational map -- for text only please go to the bottom of the page |]
[|Top News Stories|]
ABI offers instant company background check on the Web
By Lisa Moskowitz
PC World Online
Posted at 9:03 AM PT, Jul 3, 1997
If you run a company, large or small, it's good practice to know
exactly who you're doing business with before you sign any contracts.
Now you can get the lowdown on potential partners online at a low
price.
American Business Credit, a division of American Business Information
(ABI), sells reports on the credit of the more than 10 million
businesses in the United States for $3 a pop. Reports include company
name, address, phone number, fax number, number of employees, type of
business, Standard Industrial Classification codes, estimated sales
volume, names of competitors, branch and headquarter locations,
Internet address, and credit rating. The rating is based on in-house
research of public information conducted by ABI.
"A lot of small businesses looking for initial credit screening up
front come to our Web site," said Rich Chrostek, ABI general manager.
"The Web service is good for small orders, between 20 and 50 a year,
and there's no long-term contract involved."
Customers can order one of ABI's Business Profiles by typing in the
name of the business they wish to check on, registering as a user, and
entering a credit card number. Within minutes they can view the
profile online, then download and print it. The same information at
the same price can be ordered by calling (888) 274-5325.
Dun & Bradstreet, ABI's chief competitor, also offers credit reports
via the Web, but only contract subscribers have access to the most
comprehensive of its documents, Business Information Reports.
Subscription fees vary according to customer needs.
Dun & Bradstreet offers two types of credit profile on the Internet:
the Business Background report for $20, and the Supplier Evaluation
for $85. Although these reports are more expensive than ABI's Business
Profiles, they contain different -- and sometimes more extensive --
information.
According to ABI's Chrostek, the company's Business Profile is the
cheapest business credit report available on the Web.
"We're giving a cost-effective snapshot of a business," he said.
"We're a tool, not an end-all solution."
ABI also sells a CD-ROM of Business Profiles, which is recommended for
customers who need several hundred credit reports. The CD-ROM is
updated quarterly and costs $595 for an annual license and 1,000
profiles.
American Business Information Inc. can be reached at
http://www.lookupusa.com//.
PC World Online, an InfoWorld Electric sister publication, can be
reached at http://www.pcworld.com/.
Go to the Week's Top News Stories
Please direct your comments to InfoWorld Electric News Editor Dana Gardner.
Copyright � 1997 InfoWorld Publishing Company
| SiteMap | Search | PageOne | Conferences | Reader/Ad Services |
| Enterprise Careers | Opinions | Test Center | Features |
| Forums | Interviews | InfoWorld Print | InfoQuote |
--- end forwarded text
-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah at shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/
From shamrock at netcom.com Sat Jul 5 12:01:49 1997
From: shamrock at netcom.com (Lucky Green)
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 03:01:49 +0800
Subject: Fuck the Fourth (and the First, Second....)
In-Reply-To: <199707050032.CAA08156@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19970705114841.0075d240@netcom10.netcom.com>
At 02:32 AM 7/5/97 +0200, Anonymous wrote:
> Adolph Hitler obviously understood what Noah Webster was writing
>about.
>If we could get the writings made into a TV movie (or a cartoon), there
>might be a minute chance to get the American public to understand, as
>well.
A a good comic book primer might be "Grandpa Jack says: Gun Control Kills
Kids."
In the comic book, Grandpa Jack, while cleaning his AR-15, explains to his
grandchildren the origin of the tattoo on his arm and why the best and only
means of preventing tyranny is a "military style rifle" in every home.
I am taking 1,000 copies to HIP'97 :-) If you aren't going, get your copy
from Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership.
Voice: (414) 769-0760
Fax : (414) 483-8435
--Lucky Green
PGP encrypted mail preferred.
DES is dead! Please join in breaking RC5-56.
http://rc5.distributed.net/
From shamrock at netcom.com Sat Jul 5 12:18:48 1997
From: shamrock at netcom.com (Lucky Green)
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 03:18:48 +0800
Subject: PGP 5.0 source soon to be available for d/l
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19970705121145.006ff184@netcom10.netcom.com>
According to the International PGP Homepage, the scanning effort is making
good progress. 100% of the platform independent core (the part most of us
are interested in :) is scanned. 48% of said source is error corrected, up
from 18% a few days ago.
http://www.ifi.uio.no/pgp/
--Lucky Green
PGP encrypted mail preferred.
DES is dead! Please join in breaking RC5-56.
http://rc5.distributed.net/
From alan at ctrl-alt-del.com Sat Jul 5 13:18:55 1997
From: alan at ctrl-alt-del.com (Alan Olsen)
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 04:18:55 +0800
Subject: CyberSitter "Encryption"
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19970705130949.03d16390@mail.teleport.com>
In reading one of the lawyer letters going back and forth between Peacefire
and SolidOak, one of them
describes
the "encryption" used by the filter file in CyberSitter.
You are going to get a big chuckle out of this one...
The "encryption" is XORing each byte with 0x94!
Just when I thought my contempt for Millburn could not get any worse...
---
| "That'll make it hot for them!" - Guy Grand |
|"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer: |
| mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!" | Ignore the man |
|`finger -l alano at teleport.com` for PGP 2.6.2 key | behind the keyboard.|
| http://www.ctrl-alt-del.com/~alan/ |alan at ctrl-alt-del.com|
From websp at wsp1.websp.com Sun Jul 6 04:42:27 1997
From: websp at wsp1.websp.com (websp at wsp1.websp.com)
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 04:42:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Inexpensive Web Space
Message-ID: <199707061139.HAA06025@wsp1.websp.com>
We are a new company in the Internet Presence Provider business,
appropriately named The WebService Provider. We are looking for new
customers who need a place to host their web pages. We offer premium
services at a low price. Our services range from email addresses to
virtual domains. Most providers in this area of business give you a
small amount of space to host your web pages for the same price as ours.
Check out our web page at http://www.websp.com to sign up or for more
information.
Our prices:
Type: Monthly Fee: Setup Fee: Includes:
Personal Account $15 $0 20MB CGI 1 Email
Business Account $25 $0 40MB CGI 5 Email
Virtual Domain $0!!! $30* www.yourname.com
Virtual Host $0!!! $30 yourname.websp.com
Shell Account $10 $0 10MB 1 Email
Email Address $5 $5 1 Email (pop or pine)
* excluding $100 InterNIC fee
Here are some questions we asked ourselves when starting up our web
hosting business.
Why you should have a web page for yourself or your business?
Having a web page gives you an inexpensive way to reach potentially
millions of people. The World Wide Web is one of the fastest growing
mediums in today's society. So, you only have the possiblity to reach
more people. With a web page you can spread your ideas, services,
and products. When you sign up for our service you not only get space for
your web pages on our server, but an email address that your net visitors
can respond to you at instantaneously. You can can get feedback about
your page immediately through your email address.
Why should your web page be hosted with The WebService Provider?
The WebService Provider has the invested its money in the fastest
technology available to us. We have a Pentium Pro Web Server with 64MB of
RAM (soon to be 128MB), and a 10/mbs connection (almost 10 times the speed
of a T1) to our T3 (45 times the speed of a T1) provider. Our connection
is solely dedicated to your web pages. We don't have dial-in customers
bogging down the connection that is supposed to be for serving your web
pages.
We not only have the technical side, but if you have a problem we are here
to answer it. All email is responded to the same day, and if we don't
have an answer for you, we'll get back to you the same day letting you
know what the story is. All of our employees have an extensive background
in the Internet and in system administration.
Why should you sign up with The WebService Provider and not your current
Internet Service Provider?
If you sign up for web space at your current ISP, and you move, so does
your web page and your email address. With the WebService Provider your
web page address (url) and email address never change no matter what ISP
you sign up with.
Please visit our web page at www.websp.com, we look forward to hearing
from you. If you want more information about us or the services we
provide feel free to email us at info at websp.com (human email).
Thanks,
The WebService Provider
***
If you did not want to recieve this message don't worry we will never
send it to you again. Sorry!
From ballman at t-1net.com Sun Jul 6 05:35:35 1997
From: ballman at t-1net.com (ballman at t-1net.com)
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 05:35:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: golf stuff
Message-ID: <>
=====> WE WANT YOU TO KNOW MORE ABOUT GOLF BALLS <=======
Lets Take Air For Example....
All of us know how tough it is to hit a good shot in windy conditions.
We assume therefore that air is just another natural element we must
out wit in order to score well. In reality, AIR is what makes it
possible for us the hit the ball as far as we do. The SPIN we impart
on a ball actually gives the ball lift, much like the wing on an
aircraft imparts lift. This lift makes it possible for the ball to
stay airborne longer, enabling it to travel farther.
In a vacuum, the average 250 yard drive would only travel about 180
yards. A winged aircraft would not fly.
Air is your Friend....::))
Now here's one for you......Does a ball fly farther on a hot dry day
or cold wet day??....How about a hot humid day or a cold dry day ?
Let me know what you think.
Golfballs Unlimited USA reclaims balls from over 130 courses in 13
states. We stock over 50 varieties of balls. If you're an average
player, by the time you have played 3 holes with a new ball, you are
playing with a ball that's in much worse condition than our premium balls.
We offer the highest possible quality recycled balls available...at
direct pricing....HUGE SAVINGS over new balls. Yes we have BALATAS.
Customer Satisfaction Is Absolutely Guaranteed.
If you would like a free catalog, just send me an email.
Click Here For Free Catalog
Regards,
Dana Jones
The Ballman
ballman at t1-net.com
Our Mission: To Be The Best (As Determined By Our Customers)
Suppliers of Quality Recycled Golf Balls
BUY SELL TRADE
ps..I have worked carefully to see that this educational information goes only to
those who may have an interest. If you do not, please send me back an
email with remove as the subject. I will not mail to you again.
From ballman at t-1net.com Sun Jul 6 05:35:35 1997
From: ballman at t-1net.com (ballman at t-1net.com)
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 05:35:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: golf stuff
Message-ID: <>
=====> WE WANT YOU TO KNOW MORE ABOUT GOLF BALLS <=======
Lets Take Air For Example....
All of us know how tough it is to hit a good shot in windy conditions.
We assume therefore that air is just another natural element we must
out wit in order to score well. In reality, AIR is what makes it
possible for us the hit the ball as far as we do. The SPIN we impart
on a ball actually gives the ball lift, much like the wing on an
aircraft imparts lift. This lift makes it possible for the ball to
stay airborne longer, enabling it to travel farther.
In a vacuum, the average 250 yard drive would only travel about 180
yards. A winged aircraft would not fly.
Air is your Friend....::))
Now here's one for you......Does a ball fly farther on a hot dry day
or cold wet day??....How about a hot humid day or a cold dry day ?
Let me know what you think.
Golfballs Unlimited USA reclaims balls from over 130 courses in 13
states. We stock over 50 varieties of balls. If you're an average
player, by the time you have played 3 holes with a new ball, you are
playing with a ball that's in much worse condition than our premium balls.
We offer the highest possible quality recycled balls available...at
direct pricing....HUGE SAVINGS over new balls. Yes we have BALATAS.
Customer Satisfaction Is Absolutely Guaranteed.
If you would like a free catalog, just send me an email.
Click Here For Free Catalog
Regards,
Dana Jones
The Ballman
ballman at t1-net.com
Our Mission: To Be The Best (As Determined By Our Customers)
Suppliers of Quality Recycled Golf Balls
BUY SELL TRADE
ps..I have worked carefully to see that this educational information goes only to
those who may have an interest. If you do not, please send me back an
email with remove as the subject. I will not mail to you again.
From nobody at secret.squirrel.owl.de Sat Jul 5 15:52:10 1997
From: nobody at secret.squirrel.owl.de (Secret Squirrel)
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 06:52:10 +0800
Subject: procmail and hashcash
Message-ID: <19970705222102.8853.qmail@squirrel.owl.de>
PATH=/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/local/bin:$HOME/bin
MAILDIR=$HOME/Mail
LOGFILE=$HOME/.procmaillog
LOCKEXT=.lock
SHELL=/bin/sh
:0
* ^X-Hashcash-Coin:.*
{
:0:
* ? hashcash-email.pl
mbox
}
:0:
* 1^1 ^From:.*president at whitehouse.gov
mbox
:0:
junk
-----------------------------------------------------
#!/usr/local/bin/perl
$status = 0;
$use_db = 1;
$validity = 28;
$num_bits = 19;
$hashcash_coin = "";
$hashcash_db = "$ENV{'HOME'}/.email_hashcash.db";
$hashcash_exec = "$ENV{'HOME'}/bin/hashcash";
$resource_name = "nobody\@foo.bar.com";
while(<>) {
/X-Hashcash-Coin:.*\s(.+)/ && do {
$hashcash_coin = $1;
last;
};
}
exit 1 if(!$hashcash_coin);
if($use_db) {
$status = system $hashcash_exec,"-d","-f$hashcash_db","-$num_bits",$resource_name,$hashcash_coin,$validity;
} else {
$status = system $hashcash_exec,"-$num_bits",$resource_name,$hashcash_coin,$validity;
}
$status = $status / 256;
exit $status;
From nobody at REPLAY.COM Sat Jul 5 16:43:53 1997
From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 07:43:53 +0800
Subject: Liberating the Bits
In-Reply-To: <199707012155.XAA06734@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID: <199707052337.BAA11779@basement.replay.com>
Tim May wrote:
> I have copied to DAT (Digital Audio Tape) several hundred CDs. And a friend
> of mine has really gone overboard, copying more than 4000 CDs (rock, blues,
> jazz, country, you name it) onto more than 1000 DATs.
>
> Given that a new CD typically costs about $16 US, and a blank DAT tape
> costs about $4 for a 3-hour tape, the savings are spectacular. (My friend
> uses a lot of the 4-hour DATs, but I don't trust them. They jam in some
> machines.)
You mean you don't just get the mp3 files off the internet like everyone
else? :)
Why would anyone want to use DAT, when you can just stick the CD in your
computer and copy it. Hard disks are so much faster than tapes, and when
you consider data compression, don't cost much more.
I have hundreds of songs on my computer and I can start playing any one of
them in about 2 seconds. Plus I can search by title, etc... Tapes are a
pain in the ass and I just use them for backups.
From azur at netcom.com Sat Jul 5 17:44:27 1997
From: azur at netcom.com (Steve Schear)
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 08:44:27 +0800
Subject: Citizen's Line Item Veto (was Re: Just Say "No" to Congress)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970519010058.00685bdc@cnw.com>
Message-ID:
At 5:13 PM +0000 5/19/97, Paul Bradley wrote:
>> On the other hand, he obviously believes in the authority of the US
>> government, as he has always supported it in arguments on the list,
>> especially in counter arguments against TCM.
>>
>> So, it appears that VZN is not *ready* to hold the government accountable,
>> preferring not to protest when his own money is withheld for him, but
>> hypocritically wondering when everyone will make this will happen.
>
>I made a point a while ago on this list, which I felt strongly was
>correct at the time and I still feel as strongly now but this argument
>draws parallels which made me think again:
>
>I stated that anyone who, in a situation of military conscription, fought
>for a country or a cause they did not believe in, simply to avoid
>punishment for refusal to fight, was a coward.
>
>I still believe this, but really taxation is simply paying the government
>to be your hitman for you, your tax money pays the governments barbaric
>killing and warmongering, you cannot wash your hands of this simply by
>arguing that you did not choose for the money to pay for a war, you have
>to draw the conclusion that by funding the government and the state you
>fund killing and violence elsewhere in the world.
>>
>It is a similar case with taxation, until enough people stop whinging and
>actually do something the state will tax as it sees fit, I`m not going to
>be the first to refuse payment on ethical grounds in peacetime, maybe I`m
>lacking in moral fibre, maybe I`m just a realist and think I can do more
>for the case of freedom outside of a 6'x9' cell.
>
>I wish all luck to those who do refuse to pay tax on moral and ethical
>grounds, they certainly have my admiration and I grant that they are
>probably of stronger stuff than I.
>
Since Congress passed a Presidential Line Item Veto, perhaps its time
citizens ask for the same priviledge and for the same reasons.
--Steve
PGP mail preferred
Fingerprint: FE 90 1A 95 9D EA 8D 61 81 2E CC A9 A4 4A FB A9
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Schear | tel: (702) 658-2654
CEO | fax: (702) 658-2673
First ECache Corporation |
7075 West Gowan Road |
Suite 2148 |
Las Vegas, NV 89129 | Internet: azur at netcom.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------
I know not what instruments others may use,
but as for me, give me Ecache or give me debt.
SHOW ME THE DIGITS!
From nobody at REPLAY.COM Sat Jul 5 20:07:45 1997
From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 11:07:45 +0800
Subject: index.html
Message-ID: <199707060255.EAA08349@basement.replay.com>
On Fri, 4 Jul 1997, Jim Choate wrote:
> GERMANY PASSES WORLD'S FIRST CYBERSPACE LAW
>
> graphic July 4, 1997
> Web posted at: 4:10 p.m. EDT (2010 GMT)
>
> BONN, Germany (AP) -- Germany on Friday became the first country to
> pass a law regulating the free-wheeling global electronic space of
> the Internet.
So does that mean Germany is regulating all of the Internet? Or just
networked computers and operators inside Germany?
From bennett_t1 at popmail.firn.edu Sat Jul 5 20:17:47 1997
From: bennett_t1 at popmail.firn.edu (bennett_t1 at popmail.firn.edu)
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 11:17:47 +0800
Subject: index.html
In-Reply-To: <199707060255.EAA08349@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID: <33BF197E.C585D30F@popmail.firn.edu>
Anonymous wrote:
> On Fri, 4 Jul 1997, Jim Choate wrote:
> > GERMANY PASSES WORLD'S FIRST CYBERSPACE LAW
> >
> > graphic July 4, 1997
> > Web posted at: 4:10 p.m. EDT (2010 GMT)
> >
> > BONN, Germany (AP) -- Germany on Friday became the first
> country to
> > pass a law regulating the free-wheeling global electronic space
> of
> > the Internet.
>
> So does that mean Germany is regulating all of the Internet? Or just
> networked computers and operators inside Germany?
Which cypherpunk said that he wouldn't go to a conference to get
arrested for making a funny comment about a resurgence of fascism in
Germany?
From ravage at ssz.com Sat Jul 5 21:28:37 1997
From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 12:28:37 +0800
Subject: index.html
Message-ID: <199707060405.XAA17674@einstein.ssz.com>
CNN logo
US navbar
Infoseek/Big Yellow
Pathfinder/Warner Bros
Main banner If it's in your head, Okidata puts it on paper.
rule
GOP: FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WOULD 'SHOCK' FOUNDING FATHERS
July 5, 1997
Web posted at: 3:46 p.m. EDT (1946 GMT) Solomon graphic
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The federal government is just too big, taking
on things "that would have shocked" the nation's founding fathers,
New York Congressman Gerald Solomon said Saturday in the Republican
weekly radio address.
"The Founding Fathers designed a government with limited and defined
powers," Solomon said. "But that idea has been turned on its head."
Chief among the government offenses, the congressman said, is an
exorbitant tax bill.
"What the founding fathers could not even comprehend is the idea of
Americans paying more in takes than they do for food and shelter,"
Solomon said.
"Our Republican philosophy is different," he said. "We'd rather
shrink the welfare class and put the American dream of financial
security and independence within the reach of as many middle class
people as possible."
The recently passed budget, Solomon said, will accomplish that by
offering tax relief to families with children, and those with
"oppressive capital gains taxes."
"We're not talking millionaires here," he said. "We're talking about
people like grandparents who owned a house for years, reared their
children in that house and then decades later they want to sell it
when it becomes too much of burden."
The GOP Tax Relief Act, Solomon said, "will help 2 million older
Americans."
Other aspects of the tax relief plan will help small business owners
-- who may want to pass on the family business to sons and daughters
-- by increasing an exemption on estate taxes.
Solomon compared the current Republican tax cut to the birth of the
United States 221 years ago.
"Yes, on July 4, 1776, we won the battle of independence from
oppressive taxation and today ... the Republican Congress has just
won another battle to restore a larger chunk of that freedom from
taxation to you," he said. rule
Transcript:
* Transcript of Republican weekly radio address - July 5, 1997
Related site:
Note: Page will open in a new browser window
* House RepublicanLeadership
External sites are not endorsed by CNN Interactive. Search for
related CNN stories:
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From jrennie at hardy.ocs.mq.edu.au Sat Jul 5 21:46:04 1997
From: jrennie at hardy.ocs.mq.edu.au (Jason William RENNIE)
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 12:46:04 +0800
Subject: The walsh report
Message-ID:
To all aussie cypherpunks out there,
I was leafing through the walsh report. I dont follow it all very well.
could someone please answer one simple question.
The Walsh Report is good for cryptography and its ilk in Australia ??
Yes/No ??
I got the impression it was a yes, but i could be qrong i was just
readiong throught the conclusions
Jason
From shamrock at netcom.com Sat Jul 5 22:21:51 1997
From: shamrock at netcom.com (Lucky Green)
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 13:21:51 +0800
Subject: Hack the Mars rover
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19970705221647.0072d660@netcom10.netcom.com>
At 10 PM sharp, my local cable switched, as per city requirements, from the
imminent deployment of the Mars rover to a city video BBS informing the
viewer about recent changes to local dog tag regulations.
Putting thoughts of Jim Bell aside, this gives me time to ask a question
that has been on my mind since yesterday.
With the solar system's hottest RC vehicle on Mars, how hard would it for a
hacker to take control of the rover? Is NASA using any
encryption/authentication of the commands issued to the rover?
Thanks,
--Lucky Green
PGP encrypted mail preferred.
DES is dead! Please join in breaking RC5-56.
http://rc5.distributed.net/
From dlv at bwalk.dm.com Sat Jul 5 22:29:50 1997
From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 13:29:50 +0800
Subject: index.html
In-Reply-To: <33BF197E.C585D30F@popmail.firn.edu>
Message-ID:
bennett_t1 at popmail.firn.edu writes:
> Anonymous wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 4 Jul 1997, Jim Choate wrote:
> > > GERMANY PASSES WORLD'S FIRST CYBERSPACE LAW
> > >
> > > graphic July 4, 1997
> > > Web posted at: 4:10 p.m. EDT (2010 GMT)
> > >
> > > BONN, Germany (AP) -- Germany on Friday became the first
> > country to
> > > pass a law regulating the free-wheeling global electronic space
> > of
> > > the Internet.
> >
> > So does that mean Germany is regulating all of the Internet? Or just
> > networked computers and operators inside Germany?
>
> Which cypherpunk said that he wouldn't go to a conference to get
> arrested for making a funny comment about a resurgence of fascism in
> Germany?
"Resurgence"?
Nazim never went away and needs to resurgence in Germany.
---
Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps
From declan at pathfinder.com Sat Jul 5 22:45:38 1997
From: declan at pathfinder.com (Declan McCullagh)
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 13:45:38 +0800
Subject: index.html
In-Reply-To: <199707042234.RAA16340@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID:
>
> BONN, Germany (AP) -- Germany on Friday became the first country to
> pass a law regulating the free-wheeling global electronic space of
> the Internet.
>
> Chancellor Helmut Kohl's government says the so-called multimedia
> law creates legal clarity that will help boost commercialization of
> cyberspace and combats illegal uses of the Internet such as for
> pornography.
>
Guess Mr. Kohl never heard of the CDA, or Malaysia's "multimedia laws." Or
any of dozens of attempts to muzzle the Net, documented two years ago in a
Humran Rights Watch report. Sigh.
-Declan
From shamrock at netcom.com Sat Jul 5 23:17:03 1997
From: shamrock at netcom.com (Lucky Green)
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 14:17:03 +0800
Subject: Direct satellite systems?
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19970705230758.0072d7e8@netcom10.netcom.com>
My local cable killing Mars rover deployment in favor of local dog tag
ordinances (as required by the city), made me realize it that getting my
own dish is way overdue.
I would appreciate reports on any first hand experiences subscribers to
this list have with satellite services. Yes, NASA TV and the SF channel is
a must. :-)
Thanks,
--Lucky Green
PGP encrypted mail preferred.
DES is dead! Please join in breaking RC5-56.
http://rc5.distributed.net/
From nobody at REPLAY.COM Sat Jul 5 23:57:28 1997
From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 14:57:28 +0800
Subject: Liberating the Bits
In-Reply-To: <199707012155.XAA06734@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID: <199707060652.IAA08623@basement.replay.com>
Tim May wrote:
> I have copied to DAT (Digital Audio Tape) several hundred CDs. And a friend
> of mine has really gone overboard, copying more than 4000 CDs (rock, blues,
> jazz, country, you name it) onto more than 1000 DATs.
>
> Given that a new CD typically costs about $16 US, and a blank DAT tape
> costs about $4 for a 3-hour tape, the savings are spectacular. (My friend
> uses a lot of the 4-hour DATs, but I don't trust them. They jam in some
> machines.)
You mean you don't just get the mp3 files off the internet like everyone
else? :)
Why would anyone want to use DAT, when you can just stick the CD in your
computer and copy it. Hard disks are so much faster than tapes, and when
you consider data compression, don't cost much more.
I have hundreds of songs on my computer and I can start playing any one of
them in about 2 seconds. Plus I can search by title, etc... Tapes are a
pain in the ass and I just use them for backups.
From jrennie at hardy.ocs.mq.edu.au Sun Jul 6 00:57:41 1997
From: jrennie at hardy.ocs.mq.edu.au (Jason William RENNIE)
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 15:57:41 +0800
Subject: The international PGP pgae ?
Message-ID:
Does anybody know if the international PGP page is down for some reason.
I cant get to it ??
Jason
From nobody at REPLAY.COM Sun Jul 6 00:59:05 1997
From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 15:59:05 +0800
Subject: Germany Wants A Rematch
Message-ID: <199707060745.JAA14587@basement.replay.com>
To: 100566.2620 at compuserve.com (German Embassy/Canada)
From: TruthMailer
X-Mailer: WinSock Remailer Version ALPHA1.3B
X-Comments: -
X-Comments: "He who shits on the road will meet flies upon his return."
X-Comments: -
X-Comments: This message is NOT from a death camp volunteer. It was
X-Comments: sent via an automated anonymous remailer much as bullets
X-Comments: were sent by snipers in the French Resistance during
X-Comments: World War II.
X-Comments: -
X-Remailer-Setup: Maximum Message Size -- None
Subject: Germany Wants A Rematch
bennett wrote:
> On Fri, 4 Jul 1997, Jim wrote:
> > GERMANY PASSES WORLD'S FIRST CYBERSPACE LAW
> >
> > BONN, Germany (AP) -- Germany on Friday became the first country to
> > pass a law regulating the free-wheeling global electronic space
> > of the Internet.
> Which cypherpunk said that he wouldn't go to a conference to get
> arrested for making a funny comment about a resurgence of fascism in
> Germany?
Dear Mr. & Ms. G. Embassy,
Perhaps you've forgotten why freedom lovers kicked your ass in
"The Big One."
Far be it from me to rain on your jackboot parade, but this time
the underground was put in place long before the war on freedom and
liberty was officially announced.
XS4ALL's efforts to allow citizens to have the information needed
to interfere with train schedules to Auschwitz was just the tip of
the iceberg. Strong encryption and anonymous remailers are likewise
only visible symbols of the electronic weapons that have already
been prepared in defense of free speech, privacy and freedom.
{Fool me once...}
If you are of the mistaken notion that the rise of fascist limits
on freedom in now laughably democratic countries around the world
indicates that the world is now in alignment with the goals of a
"Fourth Reich"/"New World Order", then you are in for a very rude
awakening.
The fact of the matter is that Germany is not only sucking on
hind-tit in terms of being far behind the designers of the internet
in controlling the worldwide flow of information, but all those
whose aim is to use information control to futher the purpose of
domination and oppression are sucking hind-tit to those who are
prepared to prevent this from coming to fruitation.
Long before the "Internet" and the "World Wide Web" were being
publically touted as the "Information Highway" of the future,
citizens throughout the Internet were being organized into small,
disparate cells for the purpose of educating and preparing them
to provide an underground resistance to the fascist designs of
those who fully intended from the start to use this technology
as a weapon against freedom and liberty.
If you wish just the slightest taste of what I am speaking about,
then read "The Xenix Chainsaw Massacre" or "Webworld & The Mythical
Circle of Eunuchs" at http://bureau42.base.org
If you would rather access it from a Soviet source, then I suggest
you try http://www.tigerteam.net/anarchy
Or you can find it in France, Australia, Great Britain, China,
Burma, Africa, South America, ad infinitum...as part of a trilogy
named "The True Story of the InterNet."
If you want a small taste of what lies in wait for fascists in the
Unix Operating system, then study the archives of the "Cypherpunks"
mailing list.
DOS/Windows? Find the "Secret Gates" mailing list (if you can).
OS/2, Macintosh OS, Novelle...ask your father and mother, your sister
and brother, your best friend...they may well be among those who have
been preparing for decades to tear down the walls you are only now
preparing to build around freedom and privacy on the Internet.
If you want a small taste of how your own tools are already being
turned against you, as weapons and munitions, then I suggest that
you try to find the hidden stego in the map of Germany (map2-2.gif)
at the URL for your German Embassy in Canada...
http://www.DocuWeb.ca/Germany
If, on the other hand, you wish for a small taste of true freedom,
then I suggest that you resist falling prey to the fascist mindset
that others have already decided upon as your ultimate destiny, and
create your own underground resistance cell to fight against the rise
of censorship and the curtailment of freedom and liberty.
{If you haven't already...}
When the Netherlands were recently liberated, many of the citizens
at XS4ALL were reported to be smoking American cigarettes, eating
Hershey's chocolate bars, and chewing gum.
Go figure...
TruthMonger #709
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From randerso at ece.eng.wayne.edu Sun Jul 6 03:49:30 1997
From: randerso at ece.eng.wayne.edu (Ryan Anderson)
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 18:49:30 +0800
Subject: Hack the Mars rover
In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19970705221647.0072d660@netcom10.netcom.com>
Message-ID:
On Sat, 5 Jul 1997, Lucky Green wrote:
> With the solar system's hottest RC vehicle on Mars, how hard would it for a
> hacker to take control of the rover? Is NASA using any
> encryption/authentication of the commands issued to the rover?
Somehow, I don't think that's the place to mount an attempt to take it
over. The prohibitive cost of getting an antenna into space where you can
counter some of the effects of Earth's spin and keep the damn rover in
contact all the time would be the biggest problem. The trick would be to
get into NASA's flight control computers. They're almost definitely as
top-secret military systems in terms of access. (i.e, no outside
connections to unsecure nets, controls almost certainly limited to certain
stations...)
Besides, how much encryption is needed between two points if intercepting
the traffic is expensive, the communications protocol is undocumented (as
far as anyone outside NASA is concerned), and the actual frequency is also
hard to find?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ryan Anderson - "Who knows, even the horse might sing"
Wayne State University - CULMA "May you live in interesting times.."
randerso at ece.eng.wayne.edu Ohio = VYI of the USA
PGP Fingerprint - 7E 8E C6 54 96 AC D9 57 E4 F8 AE 9C 10 7E 78 C9
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From zooko at wildgoose.dagny Sun Jul 6 04:49:58 1997
From: zooko at wildgoose.dagny (Zooko Journeyman)
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 19:49:58 +0800
Subject: Mack the Harrs over
Message-ID:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
X-Inside-Sig-To: cypherpunks at algebra.com
X-Inside-Sig-cc: Ryan Anderson , Lucky Green
X-Inside-Sig-Subject: Re: Mack the Harrs over
X-Inside-Sig-Date: Sun Jul 6 13:42:19 CEST 1997
> Besides, how much encryption is needed between two points if intercepting
> the traffic is expensive, the communications protocol is undocumented (as
> far as anyone outside NASA is concerned), and the actual frequency is also
> hard to find?
Not to mention that the communication protocol is apparently
broken and drops most of the data. :-P
Somebody hack in there and fix it...
Z
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3ia
Charset: noconv
iQB1AwUBM7+E0BoBGQdOGvDZAQEA0gL/Q+N6Wr4r+NKA4Q6rC1U5op3Lcs7F8usc
6C382q6PfhzoDIUOUu+8SfPB4x5KdAYAe7UC3kn5FZ1NPoEoP3vMDsNm+Vqu6XBY
yZPQbCdAkc35CYMHX70+wxcCJ8vRESTT
=RWJa
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
From dformosa at st.nepean.uws.edu.au Sun Jul 6 05:11:02 1997
From: dformosa at st.nepean.uws.edu.au (? the Platypus {aka David Formosa})
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 20:11:02 +0800
Subject: AAAS Anonymity Project (Be AFRAID!)
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:
On Thu, 3 Jul 1997, Ray Arachelian wrote:
> On Thu, 3 Jul 1997, Robert Hettinga wrote:
[...]
> > anonymous and pseudonymous communications are desirable, permissible,
> > or undesirable, and a set of guidelines for the use of anonymous and
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Sounds like an attempt at furthering legislation to curtail our freedoms.
> I say stay the hell away from this. It smells of evil TLA's.
OTOH if no-one is perpeard to speak up in such formums to defend our
freedom then it will be all the more easy for them to legistrate. "We did
this study and no-one gave us a good reson for the remailers to
exist. Therefor we should have all the remailers such down and there
owners shot."
Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from agraphia see the url in my header.
Never trust a country with more peaple then sheep. Buy easter bilbies.
Save the ABC Is $0.08 per day too much to pay? ex-net.scum and prouud
I'm sorry but I just don't consider 'because its yucky' a convincing argument
From dformosa at st.nepean.uws.edu.au Sun Jul 6 05:37:14 1997
From: dformosa at st.nepean.uws.edu.au (? the Platypus {aka David Formosa})
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 20:37:14 +0800
Subject: ISP signatures on outgoing mail
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:
On Thu, 3 Jul 1997, Ryan Anderson wrote:
> On Fri, 4 Jul 1997, ? the Platypus {aka David Formosa} wrote:
>
> > There is now meany patchers to avoid mail relaying like this. Good ISP's
> > don't let mail to go from an outside site to anoughter outside site.
[...]
> Well, with current technology, it's not too difficult to forge DNS
> entries,
It means that the spammers will have to go to this effort, in addtion
forgeing DNS like this has a neggitive infulence on the performence of
most of the 'net. I beleave thay wouldn't try this in much the same way
spammers rearly forge there way into moderatored newsgroups.
Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from agraphia see the url in my header.
Never trust a country with more peaple then sheep. Buy easter bilbies.
Save the ABC Is $0.08 per day too much to pay? ex-net.scum and prouud
I'm sorry but I just don't consider 'because its yucky' a convincing argument
From jya at pipeline.com Sun Jul 6 06:20:04 1997
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 21:20:04 +0800
Subject: Nat Sec in Your Home
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970706125354.006ab980@pop.pipeline.com>
For worst-suspicions info on defense technology
transfer to law enforcement:
http://jya.com/tdt-le.htm
With links to Justice and wide network of high tech
crime fighters fostering civil war for your own good --
and their careers and budgets. Nat Sec coming home
to roost: downsized soldiers, spies and scientists as
sensors-r-us.
From ravage at ssz.com Sun Jul 6 07:53:25 1997
From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 22:53:25 +0800
Subject: Mack the Harrs over (fwd)
Message-ID: <199707061424.JAA18262@einstein.ssz.com>
Forwarded message:
> Subject: Re: Mack the Harrs over
> Date: Sun, 06 Jul 1997 13:43:42 +0200
> From: Zooko Journeyman
> > Besides, how much encryption is needed between two points if intercepting
> > the traffic is expensive, the communications protocol is undocumented (as
> > far as anyone outside NASA is concerned), and the actual frequency is also
> > hard to find?
>
> Not to mention that the communication protocol is apparently
> broken and drops most of the data. :-P
Really? You try sending data over 10 light-seconds using nothing but the
equivalent of your Mag-Lite flashlight and then pick it up AND successfuly
decode the data using nothing more than spare cycles in the DSN reception
network.
I suspect you are seriously underestimating the amount of noise betwix here
and there...
____________________________________________________________________
| |
| _____ The Armadillo Group |
| ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA |
| /:'///// ``::>/|/ http:// www.ssz.com/ |
| .', |||| `/( e\ |
| -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate |
| ravage at ssz.com |
| 512-451-7087 |
|____________________________________________________________________|
From ravage at ssz.com Sun Jul 6 09:14:57 1997
From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 00:14:57 +0800
Subject: Direct satellite systems? (fwd)
Message-ID: <199707061444.JAA18314@einstein.ssz.com>
Forwarded message:
> Date: Sat, 05 Jul 1997 23:07:58 -0700
> From: Lucky Green
> Subject: Direct satellite systems?
> My local cable killing Mars rover deployment in favor of local dog tag
> ordinances (as required by the city), made me realize it that getting my
> own dish is way overdue.
>
> I would appreciate reports on any first hand experiences subscribers to
> this list have with satellite services. Yes, NASA TV and the SF channel is
> a must. :-)
NASA Select is the actual transponder you want to use for NASA stuff. Get
any of the numerous satellite magazines and they will include not only a
map of the commercial satellites but their location and other niceities.
Note that this is not all the satellites you can receive since those not
on the plane of the eccliptic will require a different mast-head (it
requires both RA and declinination, where most low-cost commercial stuff
only has RA). You will also want to check out comp.space.news and pick up
the new satellite listings that come out about once a week or so. You will
also get solar weather alerts on this newsgroup as well.
The main downside a satellite system is that you don't get any of the local
stations.
On the hardware front, decide now what kind of coverage you want. If you
have any hopes for a satellite modem (which can be quite fun to play with)
then don't get the digital dish but go with the older C/K band dishes (3m).
The setup that I use (and suggest) is:
- local cable, at least minimal services to get the local stations
- C/K band setup with dual decoders so that you can watch two transponder
channels per bird
- digital dish to receive the newer systems (if you can find a good
source for digital sat modems for these please let me know)
I'll give you a hint on how to get started, get to know somebody in the
local sat business and get them to let you know when they replace an old
C/K band system with a new digital systems. Usualy they throw the dish,
mast-head, and cable away because they have no resale value. I got both
of my C/K dishes this way. Spent maybe $100 on cables and connectors not
counting the concrete I used to mount the masts.
With the changes in the cable laws you can now buy hacks to the boxes on the
open market. I *strongly* suggest making this purchase as anonymous as
possible. My cable guy gets a visit from the FCC about once a year on some
purchase he made. I get my ROM's and such at various electronic, hamfest,
and video get togethers that happen in and around Ctl. Texas. I am shure if
you check in your local areas similar events occur. (hint: get somebody else
to drive to the event in their car and pay with cash only and never tell
them anything about your real name or location).
Last tip, buy your own center level and don't be stingy on the cost. The
more vertical you can get your mast the happier you will be in the long
run.
Hope it helps.
____________________________________________________________________
| |
| _____ The Armadillo Group |
| ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA |
| /:'///// ``::>/|/ http:// www.ssz.com/ |
| .', |||| `/( e\ |
| -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate |
| ravage at ssz.com |
| 512-451-7087 |
|____________________________________________________________________|
From ravage at ssz.com Sun Jul 6 09:16:13 1997
From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 00:16:13 +0800
Subject: Mack the Harrs over (fwd) (correction)
Message-ID: <199707061446.JAA18356@einstein.ssz.com>
Forwarded message:
> From: Jim Choate
> Subject: Re: Mack the Harrs over (fwd)
> Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 09:24:11 -0500 (CDT)
> Really? You try sending data over 10 light-seconds using nothing but the
^^^^^^^
minutes
Sorry for the typo.
____________________________________________________________________
| |
| _____ The Armadillo Group |
| ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA |
| /:'///// ``::>/|/ http:// www.ssz.com/ |
| .', |||| `/( e\ |
| -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate |
| ravage at ssz.com |
| 512-451-7087 |
|____________________________________________________________________|
From ravage at ssz.com Sun Jul 6 09:42:59 1997
From: ravage at ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 00:42:59 +0800
Subject: Hack the Mars rover (fwd)
Message-ID: <199707061611.LAA18434@einstein.ssz.com>
Forwarded message:
> Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 06:43:06 -0400 (edt)
> From: Ryan Anderson
> Subject: Re: Hack the Mars rover
> Somehow, I don't think that's the place to mount an attempt to take it
> over. The prohibitive cost of getting an antenna into space where you can
> counter some of the effects of Earth's spin and keep the damn rover in
> contact all the time would be the biggest problem.
The place to attack is the up-link. This requires physical access (ie a van
with a dish and xmtr.) as well as a means to crack the encryption on the
control channels. At least one French satellite has been cracked and
de-orbited via a network attack.
> Besides, how much encryption is needed between two points if intercepting
> the traffic is expensive, the communications protocol is undocumented (as
> far as anyone outside NASA is concerned), and the actual frequency is also
> hard to find?
The communications are not only documented but easily observable with the
correct commercialy available equipment. The frequencies are a matter of
public record, I would further bet that 5 minutes with a search engine would
bring that data to light...
____________________________________________________________________
| |
| _____ The Armadillo Group |
| ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA |
| /:'///// ``::>/|/ http:// www.ssz.com/ |
| .', |||| `/( e\ |
| -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate |
| ravage at ssz.com |
| 512-451-7087 |
|____________________________________________________________________|
From ppomes at qualcomm.com Sun Jul 6 12:12:00 1997
From: ppomes at qualcomm.com (Paul Pomes)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 03:12:00 +0800
Subject: Hack the Mars rover (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199707061611.LAA18434@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <6237.868215714@zelkova.qualcomm.com>
At 11:11 CDT on Sunday, July 6, 1997, Jim Choate wrote:
|The place to attack is the up-link. This requires physical access (ie a van
|with a dish and xmtr.) as well as a means to crack the encryption on the
|control channels. At least one French satellite has been cracked and
|de-orbited via a network attack.
The encryption for US-made satellites is supplied by the NSA. Cracking the
encryption is much easier said than done. Is there a cite for the French
incident?
/pbp
From health at infogate.co.il Mon Jul 7 03:22:46 1997
From: health at infogate.co.il (health at infogate.co.il)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 03:22:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Attorney
Message-ID: <199707071022.DAA19806@toad.com>
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From Drifter0 at aol.com Sun Jul 6 13:12:38 1997
From: Drifter0 at aol.com (Drifter0 at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 04:12:38 +0800
Subject: can i join
Message-ID: <970706155513_847343667@emout10.mail.aol.com>
thanx
From azur at netcom.com Sun Jul 6 13:15:09 1997
From: azur at netcom.com (Steve Schear)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 04:15:09 +0800
Subject: Hack the Mars rover (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199707061611.LAA18434@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID:
>Forwarded message:
>
>> Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 06:43:06 -0400 (edt)
>> From: Ryan Anderson
>> Subject: Re: Hack the Mars rover
>
>> Somehow, I don't think that's the place to mount an attempt to take it
>> over. The prohibitive cost of getting an antenna into space where you can
>> counter some of the effects of Earth's spin and keep the damn rover in
>> contact all the time would be the biggest problem.
>
>The place to attack is the up-link. This requires physical access (ie a van
>with a dish and xmtr.) as well as a means to crack the encryption on the
>control channels. At least one French satellite has been cracked and
>de-orbited via a network attack.
>
>> Besides, how much encryption is needed between two points if intercepting
>> the traffic is expensive, the communications protocol is undocumented (as
>> far as anyone outside NASA is concerned), and the actual frequency is also
>> hard to find?
>
>The communications are not only documented but easily observable with the
>correct commercialy available equipment. The frequencies are a matter of
>public record, I would further bet that 5 minutes with a search engine would
>bring that data to light...
The place to hack any deep-space mission is at its terminus. Even with the
incredible receiveing equipment at each of the controlling earth stations
(e.g., Goldstone off of I395 between Barstow and Mammoth Lakes, CA) the
link margin, that is the minimum required signal/noise vs. actual for the
specified bit rate, can't be too healthy. The antennas are huge, very
directional, parabolic dishes, but even the best have a bit of side-lobe
receiption (that's why they're located in remote areas, usualy surrounded
by hills). One can exploit these side-lobe to jam in inbound signal.
Depending upon the transmission/modulation scheme, only a simple,
low-powered, transmitter with line-of-sight to the parabolic dish could
overwhelm the Rover signal. Getting such a 'shot' at the antenna might be
difficult from the ground.
--Steve
PGP mail preferred
Fingerprint: FE 90 1A 95 9D EA 8D 61 81 2E CC A9 A4 4A FB A9
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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---------------------------------------------------------------------
I know not what instruments others may use,
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SHOW ME THE DIGITS!
From jya at pipeline.com Sun Jul 6 14:35:09 1997
From: jya at pipeline.com (John Young)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 05:35:09 +0800
Subject: Jim Bell 6
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970706211723.006a75b0@pop.pipeline.com>
On June 26 the court handling Jim's case extended
the time from June 30 to July 11 for the USA to file an
indictment.
This is from an on-line docket of the case via
Public Access to Court Electronic Records (PACER)
a subcription service for federal courts.
No indication that Jim has been released, jailed since
his arrest on May 16. No reason given for repeated
waiver of right to a speedy trial.
The docket's at:
http://jya.com/jimbell-dock.htm
From vznuri at netcom.com Sun Jul 6 14:57:44 1997
From: vznuri at netcom.com (Vladimir Z. Nuri)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 05:57:44 +0800
Subject: nsa+gchq spying operation
Message-ID: <199707062150.OAA13283@netcom7.netcom.com>
as I recall we have gotten early hints of this operation/book.
------- Forwarded Message
Date: Sat, 05 Jul 1997 21:37:30 -0600
To: snetnews at world.std.com, act at efn.org
From: Leander
Subject: SNET: "Secret Power" by Nicki Hagar
- -> SearchNet's SNETNEWS Mailing List
Forwarded from alt.2600.moderated by me.
Leander
leander at xmission.com
>"Secret Power" by Nicki Hagar
>The International Spying Networks UKUSA and ECHELON
>301pp ISBN: 0-908802-35-8
>
>According to this remarkable book, that has somehow escaped the flames of
>book banners crying "national security," the United States NSA and the
>United Kingdom's GCHQ (Government Communications Headquarters) operate a
>global spying network called UKUSA. To listen in on conversations across the
>planet, a massive eavesdropping apparatus was built, with tentacles which
>reach into dozens of different countries beyond the shores of either the US
>or UK as well as across the skies.
>
>Describing the nature of UKUSA, its global affiliations, and operations
>represents a huge effort on the part of author Nicki Hager. He states early
>on in 'Secret Power':
>
> "Many people are vaguely aware that a lot of spying occurs, maybe even on
> them, but how do we judge if it is ubiquitous or not a worry at all? Is
> someone listening every time we pick up the telephone? Are all of our
> Internet or fax messages being pored over continuously by shadowy figures
> somewhere in a windowless building?
>
> "What follows explains as precisely as possible - and for the first time
> in public - how the worldwide [spy] system works, just how immense and
> powerful it is and what it can and cannot do.
>
> "The global system has a highly secret codename: ECHELON."
>
>And that is the foundation of a tremendous amount of research that describes
>in detail how the vast global spying network "collects all the telephone
>calls, faxes, telexes, Internet messages and other electronic communications
>that its computers have been pre-programmed to select," and then analyzes
>the contents and distributes it to members UKUSA and ECHELON partners
>world-wide.
>
>The operational details of how the US (NSA), UK (GCHQ), Canada (CSE),
>Australia (DSD) and New Zealand (GCSB) intercepts signals, throws high power
>computing behind ECHELON 'KeyWord' dictionary attacks and what they do with
>that information is potentially alarming; especially since so much of this
>decades old practice has been kept under the wraps of security.
>
>Secret Power names the names, provides the dates and the technical details
>on the world's largest, best financed and coordinated global spying
>apparatus ever conceived. Full of pictures, maps and charts, the reader will
>get a complete picture of just how much effort and resources go into
>international security, long distance eavesdropping, and spying.
>
>>From the Cold War to today, UKUSA and ECHELON have been fascinating and
>powerful intelligence functions to spy both on enemies and friends. "Secret
>Power" provides the first peek inside the world's most secretive and
>powerful electronic spy organization.
>
>"Secret Power" reads like a thriller, except that it's true. It should be
>read by everyone with an interest in intelligence, espionage and the
>technology that modern spies use.
>
>"An astonishing number of people have told him [author Nicki Hager] things
>that I, as Prime Minister in charge of the intelligence services, was never
>told...It is an outrage that I and other ministers were told so little."
> -David Lange, Prime Minister of New Zealand 1984-89
>
>"...the most detailed and up to date account of the work of any signals
>intelligence agency in existence. It is a masterpiece of investigative
>reporting, and provides a wealth of information."
> -Jeffrey T. Richelson, leading authority on United States
>intelligence agencies and author of America's Secret Eyes in the Sky, and
>co-author of 'The Ties that Bind.'
>
>------------------------------
>
>--
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Graham-John Bullers Moderator of alt.2600.moderated
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> email : :
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> http://www.freenet.edmonton.ab.ca/~real/index.html
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>-- end of forwarded message --
>
>
- -> Send "subscribe snetnews " to majordomo at world.std.com
- -> Posted by: Leander
------- End of Forwarded Message
From die at pig.die.com Sun Jul 6 15:06:09 1997
From: die at pig.die.com (Dave Emery)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 06:06:09 +0800
Subject: Hack the Mars rover (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199707061611.LAA18434@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <199707062151.RAA25276@pig.die.com>
Jim Choate wrote :
> Forwarded message:
>
> > Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 06:43:06 -0400 (edt)
> > From: Ryan Anderson
> > Subject: Re: Hack the Mars rover
>
>
> The place to attack is the up-link. This requires physical access (ie a van
> with a dish and xmtr.) as well as a means to crack the encryption on the
> control channels. At least one French satellite has been cracked and
> de-orbited via a network attack.
>
> > Besides, how much encryption is needed between two points if intercepting
> > the traffic is expensive, the communications protocol is undocumented (as
> > far as anyone outside NASA is concerned), and the actual frequency is also
> > hard to find?
>
> The communications are not only documented but easily observable with the
> correct commercialy available equipment. The frequencies are a matter of
> public record, I would further bet that 5 minutes with a search engine would
> bring that data to light...
Two very imprtant points. The space path loss to and from Mars
is very large. So a very large dish is required to have sufficient G/T
to see readable data. Most NASA deep space stations use 85 foot dishes
and some also have 300 footers. Without that kind of antenna gain one
is not going to see anything at all, and without that kind of gain on
the command uplink as well as a multi KW high power microwave amplifier
to feed the dish one is not going to be able to put enough signal into
Mars to do anything.
There are essentially no 85 foot or larger dishes in the hands
of anyone who might be attempting to hack a NASA spacecraft. Such an
antenna is simply not your back yard satellite dish.... they cost more
than a million dollars and are major construction projects.
The second point is that the NSA has been supplying space
hardened crypto chips and related ground equipment to every US satellite
manufacturer and operator for at least the last 15 years for use in
protecting the command uplinks against unauthorized access. One can be
quite sure that NASA has used these, or if they haven't has good reason
to believe they don't have to.
The attack that is barely conceivable is for some cracker to
break into a NASA terrestrial communications link associated with the
Deep Space Network (some links use satellite communications for example
and others microwave links) and access the command uplink systems of a
NASA DSN site. Whether they have fully secured all of these against
such attack is unclear. Obviously good old secret key encryption would
work here, and there certainly is a lot of command validation done at
the uplink before the command is sent, so whoever was doing this would
have to have great in-depth knowlage of the command uplink system and
the spacecraft itself.
And finally, demodulating the downlinks and recovering
information from them is relatively easily accomplished once the hard
part (obtaining the G/T required) is somehow handled. NASA tends to
use very straightforward modulations and FEC and does not encrypt the
downlinks. And a fair amount of detail about the data formats is
publicly available.
Dave Emery
die at die.com
Weston, Mass.
From wombat at mcfeely.bsfs.org Sun Jul 6 16:15:54 1997
From: wombat at mcfeely.bsfs.org (Rabid Wombat)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 07:15:54 +0800
Subject: Mack the Harrs over (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199707061424.JAA18262@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID:
On Sun, 6 Jul 1997, Jim Choate wrote:
> Forwarded message:
>
> > Subject: Re: Mack the Harrs over
> > Date: Sun, 06 Jul 1997 13:43:42 +0200
> > From: Zooko Journeyman
>
> > > Besides, how much encryption is needed between two points if intercepting
> > > the traffic is expensive, the communications protocol is undocumented (as
> > > far as anyone outside NASA is concerned), and the actual frequency is also
> > > hard to find?
> >
> > Not to mention that the communication protocol is apparently
> > broken and drops most of the data. :-P
>
>
> Really? You try sending data over 10 light-seconds using nothing but the
> equivalent of your Mag-Lite flashlight and then pick it up AND successfuly
> decode the data using nothing more than spare cycles in the DSN reception
> network.
>
> I suspect you are seriously underestimating the amount of noise betwix here
> and there...
>
I suspect you'd need a dish the size of your house to pick up the signal.
-r.w.
From azur at netcom.com Sun Jul 6 17:41:22 1997
From: azur at netcom.com (Steve Schear)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 08:41:22 +0800
Subject: Hack the Mars rover (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199707061611.LAA18434@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID:
> Two very imprtant points. The space path loss to and from Mars
>is very large. So a very large dish is required to have sufficient G/T
>to see readable data. Most NASA deep space stations use 85 foot dishes
>and some also have 300 footers. Without that kind of antenna gain one
>is not going to see anything at all, and without that kind of gain on
>the command uplink as well as a multi KW high power microwave amplifier
>to feed the dish one is not going to be able to put enough signal into
>Mars to do anything.
>
> There are essentially no 85 foot or larger dishes in the hands
>of anyone who might be attempting to hack a NASA spacecraft. Such an
>antenna is simply not your back yard satellite dish.... they cost more
>than a million dollars and are major construction projects.
You're right, its beyond imagination that any amateur would have the
resources at their disposal to override NASA's uplink (unless ther's
another Capt'n Midnight lurking at a commercial uplink station ;-).
>
> The second point is that the NSA has been supplying space
>hardened crypto chips and related ground equipment to every US satellite
>manufacturer and operator for at least the last 15 years for use in
>protecting the command uplinks against unauthorized access. One can be
>quite sure that NASA has used these, or if they haven't has good reason
>to believe they don't have to.
>
> The attack that is barely conceivable is for some cracker to
>break into a NASA terrestrial communications link associated with the
>Deep Space Network (some links use satellite communications for example
>and others microwave links) and access the command uplink systems of a
>NASA DSN site. Whether they have fully secured all of these against
>such attack is unclear. Obviously good old secret key encryption would
>work here, and there certainly is a lot of command validation done at
>the uplink before the command is sent, so whoever was doing this would
>have to have great in-depth knowlage of the command uplink system and
>the spacecraft itself.
Rather than trying to seize control of lander just do a DOS hack by keeping
the ground stations from hearing the lander signal. You said yourself that
the path loss to Mars is very large (maybe around 200 dB), this means that
even with those huge antennas their link margins can't be too high.
I'll assume that in order to improve the margins they're using spread
spectrum techniques, trading bandwidth for spectral efficiency. Without
getting into the specifics of jamming technology, unless they have a very
large process gain (like the 63 dB claimed for GPS), which is very unlikely
for a number of reasons, that a properly designed transmitter located near
their downlink stations would spill into the passband of their very
senstive receivers (probably liquid-He cooled LNAs) making receiption
difficult to impossible. Of course, such transmitters would be relatively
easy to find so only intermittent operation might be practical.
>
> And finally, demodulating the downlinks and recovering
>information from them is relatively easily accomplished once the hard
>part (obtaining the G/T required) is somehow handled. NASA tends to
>use very straightforward modulations and FEC and does not encrypt the
>downlinks. And a fair amount of detail about the data formats is
>publicly available.
If the data formats and coding techniques are public and well documented
the task is simplified many fold.
--Steve
PGP encrypted mail PREFERRED (See MIT/BAL servers for my PK)
PGP Fingerprint: FE 90 1A 95 9D EA 8D 61 81 2E CC A9 A4 4A FB A9
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Schear (N7ZEZ) | Internet: azur at netcom.com
7075 West Gowan Road | Voice: 1-702-658-2654
Suite 2148 | Fax: 1-702-658-2673
Las Vegas, NV 89129 |
---------------------------------------------------------------------
God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change;
The courage to change the things I can;
The weapons that make the difference;
And the wisdom to hide the bodies of the people that got in my way;-)
"Surveilence is ultimately just another form of media, and thus,
potential entertainment."
--G. Beato
"We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million
typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of
Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is
not true." -- Dr. Robert Silensky
From bennett_t1 at popmail.firn.edu Sun Jul 6 19:52:37 1997
From: bennett_t1 at popmail.firn.edu (bennett_t1 at popmail.firn.edu)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 10:52:37 +0800
Subject: can i join
In-Reply-To: <970706155513_847343667@emout10.mail.aol.com>
Message-ID: <33C0645F.C0C2ED32@popmail.firn.edu>
Drifter0 at aol.com wrote:
> thanx
... Oh, Jesus, another stupid AOLer. Well, let me go through the
proper procedures.
Time for the flame-form.
-----------------------------
Dear:
[X] Clueless Newbie [X] Lamer [ ] Flamer
[ ] "Me too" er [ ] Pervert [X] Geek
[ ] Spammer [ ] Racist [ ] Fed
[X] Stereotypical AOLer [ ] Freak [ ] Troller
[ ] Fundamentalist [ ] Satanist [ ] Scientologist
You Are Being Flamed Because:
[ ] You posted what should have been emailed
[ ] You obviously don't know how to read your newsgroups line
[ ] You are trying to make money on a non-commercial newsgroup
[ ] You self-rightously impose your religious beliefs on others
[ ] You posted something asking for warez sites
[ ] You quoted an ENTIRE post in your reply
[ ] You started a long, stupid thread
[ ] You continued spreading a long stupid thread
[ ] Your post is absurdly off topic for where you posted it
[ ] You posted a followup to crossposted robot-generated spam
[ ] You posted a "test" in a discussion group rather than in alt.test
[ ] You posted a "YOU ALL SUCK" message
[X] You posted low-IQ flamebait
[ ] You posted a blatently obvious troll
[ ] You posted a listserver command
[ ] You followed up to a blatently obvious troll
[ ] You posted pretending to be someone famous
[ ] You said "me too" to something
[ ] You make no sense
[ ] Your sig/alias/server is dreadful
[ ] You posted a phone-sex ad
[ ] You posted a stupid pyramid money making scheme
[ ] You claimed a pyramid-scheme/chain letter for money was legal
[ ] Your margin settings (or lack of) make your post unreadable
[ ] You posted in ElItE CaPiTaLs to look K3WL
[ ] You posted SCREAMING in RANDOM CAPS for NO APPARENT REASON
[X] You didn't do anything specific, but appear to be so generally
worthless that you are being flamed anyway
To Repent, You Must:
[ ] Refrain from posting until you have a vague idea what
you're doing
[X] Stop masturbating for a week
[X] Be Senator Exon's love slave
[ ] Read every newsgroup you posted to for a week
[X] Give up your AOL account
[X] Bust up your modem with a hammer and eat it
[ ] Tell your Mommy to up your medication
[X] Jump into a bathtub while holding your monitor
[ ] Actually post something relevant
[X] Make a homepage shrine for the goddess Hello Kitty
[X] Read the FAQ
[ ] Post to alt.test
[ ] Print your home phone number in your ads
[X] Be the guest of honor in alt.flame for a month
In Closing, I'd Like to Say:
[X] Get a clue
[X] Get a life
[X] Go away
[ ] Age 10 more years before you post again
[X] Never post again
[X] I pity your dog
[ ] You need to seek psychiatric help
[ ] Morons like you give ammo to pro-censorship geeks
[X] Yer momma's so fat/stupid/ugly that etc...
[X] Take your gibberish somewhere else
[X] Learn how to post or get off the usenet and listserv
[ ] All of the above
From die at pig.die.com Sun Jul 6 20:24:52 1997
From: die at pig.die.com (Dave Emery)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 11:24:52 +0800
Subject: Hack the Mars rover (fwd)
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID: <199707070257.WAA26483@pig.die.com>
Steve Schear wrote :
> You're right, its beyond imagination that any amateur would have the
> resources at their disposal to override NASA's uplink (unless ther's
> another Capt'n Midnight lurking at a commercial uplink station ;-).
Different frequency bands. And much less power for a commercial
uplink to illuminate a geo satellite with significant antenna gain
toward it's footprint. Commercial uplinks are usually in the 20 to
500 watt power class going into the feed, whereas the DSN has 5 and
10 kw capability into much larger dishes (30 meter versus 6 to 9 meter).
>
> Rather than trying to seize control of lander just do a DOS hack by keeping
> the ground stations from hearing the lander signal. You said yourself that
> the path loss to Mars is very large (maybe around 200 dB), this means that
> even with those huge antennas their link margins can't be too high.
Greater than 200 db. But indeed one could certainly come up
with enough rf power from some point on the ground in line of sight to a
DSN dish to completely overwhelm the signal from the bird.
However, such a signal would be instantly spotted and identified
and probably DF'd fairly rapidly. It would be unlikely one could knock
out the downlink for very long without being located (and vigorously
prosecuted).
But most of the time Mars is visible from more than one DSN
earth station and given the high priority of the mission the most
likely thing would just be to switch stations to one a third of
the way around the globe or more. Would obviously be a nuisance
and get some people very mad, but since the ground stations fail
from natural causes from time to time such a handover would be
fairly routine.
>
> I'll assume that in order to improve the margins they're using spread
> spectrum techniques, trading bandwidth for spectral efficiency.
Spectral efficiency is usually bits/hertz of bandwidth. They do
use QPSK or BPSK (mostly QPSK) which is about as power efficient -
using FEC, vitirbi soft decision detection and non differential coding
- as any possible modulation would be irrespective of bandwidth.
That is to say for a given data rate and carrier power to noise temp
ratio there is no modulation that would yield a better BER irrespective
of bandwith used.
Without
> getting into the specifics of jamming technology, unless they have a very
> large process gain (like the 63 dB claimed for GPS)
Process gain is a measure of the ratio of the spreading sequence
bit rate to the underlying data bit rate for a direct sequence spread
spectrum signal. There is very little to be gained by using spread
signals rather than non spread signals in this application except
perhaps very accurate ranging information. They do not make sending k
bits per second with BER less than e bits second any easier. There has
been some use of spreading sequences for ranging in the DSN, but I do
not know whether the pathfinder mission used that mode.
Obviously a spread signal would require lots more power to
jam with noise or cw carriers, but even assuming side lobes -80db down
from the main lobe (really hard to do) a jammer working from nearby would
not need to be putting out a lot of power to overload the receiver
and correllators.
, which is very unlikely
> for a number of reasons, that a properly designed transmitter located near
> their downlink stations would spill into the passband of their very
> senstive receivers (probably liquid-He cooled LNAs) making receiption
> difficult to impossible. Of course, such transmitters would be relatively
> easy to find so only intermittent operation might be practical.
> >
And would be spotted almost instantly on spectrum analyzers and
other monitors.
> > And finally, demodulating the downlinks and recovering
> >information from them is relatively easily accomplished once the hard
> >part (obtaining the G/T required) is somehow handled. NASA tends to
> >use very straightforward modulations and FEC and does not encrypt the
> >downlinks. And a fair amount of detail about the data formats is
> >publicly available.
>
> If the data formats and coding techniques are public and well documented
> the task is simplified many fold.
>
Yes it is, although making educated guesses and going from there
is certainly possible.
Dave Emery
die at die.com
Weston, Mass.
From die at pig.die.com Sun Jul 6 21:44:09 1997
From: die at pig.die.com (Dave Emery)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 12:44:09 +0800
Subject: NOISE jamming...
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID: <199707070424.AAA26863@pig.die.com>
Steve Schear wrote :
>
> A single jammer is an easy target but multiple coordinated jammers are a
> different story. My group did some work at TRW on this. Suffice it to say
> that just a few well coordinted jammers can make DFing even with satellite
> systems very, very, hard.
There is quite a bit of emitter location technology around,
including much designed to work from airborne platforms that would
likely be deployed as soon as possible. Seen from the air coordinated
jammers would likely be widely separted spacially even if they weren't
as seen from the DSN antenna. And an airborne platform can get very
much closer to one emitter (where its signal predominates) than others
making separating its energy from the rest much easier.
But yes, a very sophisticated jamming effort sync'd up with GPS
timing and using multiple sites would be something that undoubtably
would knock out a station for a while as countermeasures to such an
attack are not part of operational plans for civilian science research
ground sites. But many of those sites have several dishes of various
sizes with feeds at the downlink frequency and a dish with 50 or 60 db
of gain and tenth of a degree beamwidth would do fairly well at
isolating a single jammer azimuth and elevation by searching for and
pointing right at it. Perhaps it even would be possible to use two
dishes separted by enough distance to trianglulate.
>
> >
> > But most of the time Mars is visible from more than one DSN
> >earth station and given the high priority of the mission the most
> >likely thing would just be to switch stations to one a third of
> >the way around the globe or more. Would obviously be a nuisance
> >and get some people very mad, but since the ground stations fail
> >from natural causes from time to time such a handover would be
> >fairly routine.
>
> Which means you'd need to jam all the stations as they came into view.
> Certainly not the work of a lone hacker.
Hell if you are dead set at disrupting more or less pure
science (mixed with a bit of budget sales pitch) why not rent a
Rider truck loaded with ANFO ? or a HERF device ? or simply
start shooting at the antenna with a heavy gauge machine gun ?
Or to be subtler and more stealthy, cut the fiber optic telco
cables connecting the site with the NASA network using nothing more than
a ordinary shovel and a bolt cutter in some out of the way spot. Many
cable routes are well marked... and you could dress up as the gas
company or water and sewer department and nobody would think twice about
seeing you dig a hole by the side of the road.
>
> Yep, I just thought they might employ FH to avoid the odd noise blips from
> terrestrial sources (even with reservation of the bands), although SS
> usually increases front-end bandwidth and lowers sensitivity,
> selectivity, etc. With link margins already low it probably doen't pay.
>
Hopping no, But they have sometimes used direct sequence spreading
because it supplies a very accurate high resolution ranging yardstick
(as in the case of GPS which works exactly that way).
> >> >
> > And would be spotted almost instantly on spectrum analyzers and
> >other monitors.
>
> They'd certainly see the signal, but as I said above a coordinated attack
> from several transmitters can be exceedingly difficult to find, even by
> national technical means.
Again, there are lots of flying (not orbiting) platforms with
various antennas and DF receivers that can do this sort of thing.
And they can fly any pattern that might be useful and look for interesting
visual, passive IR, and side looking radar observable objects on the ground.
Obtaining a rough (degree or so) direction on the jammers would be
fairly easy using standard EMI horn and dish antennas or the automated
equivalent on military ELINT vehicles unless the jammers were using
very many sites closely spaced together and phase and frequency
coherent signals from all the sites. And certainly sweeping the horizon
with a big dish would likely yield significant location information
simply becuase of the very narrow beam width of the dish's main lobe.
Dave Emery
die at die.com
Weston, Mass.
From tcmay at got.net Mon Jul 7 00:33:18 1997
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 15:33:18 +0800
Subject: Forged Posts
In-Reply-To: <33BAF064.B56@got.net>
Message-ID:
The Canadian whacko who goes by "Toto," "TruthMonger," "Xenix Chainsaw
Massacre Author," "Colonel C.J. Parker" (or somesuch) is apparently at it
again.
While I was out of town, he arranged to have this message sent:
At 5:20 PM -0700 7/2/97, Tim May wrote:
>BigNuts wrote:
>> > On Tue, 1 Jul 1997, Tim May wrote:
>> >
>> > > Technology liberates the bits.
>>
>> Tim gave excellent information on how one can go about using
>> technology to enjoy the fruits of other people's labour without
>> contributing toward the survival of those producing the things
>> he enjoys.
>
> Anything that isn't nailed down, is mine.
> Anything that I can pry loose, isn't nailed down.
...etc....
The full headers of this message reveal:
Received: from wombat.sk.sympatico.ca (wombat.sk.sympatico.ca
[142.165.5.136]) by toad.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA10470 for
; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 17:21:56 -0700 (PDT)
--Tim May
There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws.
Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay at got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."
From tcmay at got.net Mon Jul 7 00:33:45 1997
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 15:33:45 +0800
Subject: Liberating the Bits
In-Reply-To: <33BAF064.B56@got.net>
Message-ID:
At 5:59 PM -0700 7/2/97, Mac Norton wrote:
>On Wed, 2 Jul 1997, Tim May wrote:
>
>> Hey! I got mine and I'm keeping it!
>> Just because a bunch of gullible people believed my company's claim
>> that we owned the results of our creative ideas doesn't mean that I
>> have to be a sucker, too.
>>
>
>If you're willing to admit you got yours under false pretenses,
>the rest of us would like to have it back. Now.
>
Let it be known I did not write any of the material above attributed to me.
(I'm just catching up on some of the accumulated e-mail of the past several
days, and am looking at random messages that catch my interest. Perhaps I
am missing some context, but I am quoted in the "Tim May wrote:" line, and
yet none of that quoted section includes anything I wrote.)
--Tim May
There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws.
Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay at got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."
From jazzmin at ou.edu Mon Jul 7 01:11:58 1997
From: jazzmin at ou.edu (Jazzmin Belle Sommers)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 16:11:58 +0800
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <33c0a3573d20006@hermes.services.ou.edu>
I know some of you are into goth and stuff, and since this list almost never
talks about things related to cypherpunkery I thought I'd pop in something
vaguely relevant.
31 Oct in OKC there's a masquerade ball/costume contest/art show/etc for
those interested in the RPG "Kindred". Email if interested, otherwise ignore.
anyone know of a good goth site to link a web page to? (It's not up yet.)
Thx,
jazzmin sommers
"Work is the curse of the drinking classes."
Oscar Wilde
From bogus@does.not.exist.com Mon Jul 7 18:16:17 1997
From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 18:16:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: I Lost 4 lbs. in 4 Days...Without Dieting!!!
Message-ID: <393859c@GM49g8r.com>
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From nobody at REPLAY.COM Mon Jul 7 04:06:10 1997
From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 19:06:10 +0800
Subject: [STEGO] RSA
Message-ID: <199707071052.MAA11508@basement.replay.com>
Given Tim C. May's propensity to molest little children, is it any
surprise that the state of California wants to have him castrated?
o o
/< >\ Tim C. May
\\\_______///
// \\
From Michael.Johnson at mejl.com Mon Jul 7 05:25:02 1997
From: Michael.Johnson at mejl.com (Mike)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 20:25:02 +0800
Subject: Dr. Dobbs Cryptography and Security CD-ROM
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19970707141240.00967c00@localhost>
Bill Frantz wrote:
>Excuse me. Certain parts of that CDROM are already available overseas.
>If they are not posted to the net how does that prevent them from being
>available overseas?
You mean that it would be fine for foreigners to copy and sell the CD, but
not to put it on the net? Well, copyright law being what it is, makes this
a bit tricky. An ftp administrator have never been sentenced for copyright
violation (please correct me if I'm wrong), but CD copiers are thrown in jail
all the time. The distinction that the courts make is that of profit.
Sure, they can buy the book, but the electronic version is obviously more
useful to some people, or there wouldn't be any market for it.
I know foreigners who would like to put a copy of Applied Cryptography in
their PalmPilots, to carry around for reference. They can't do that legaly,
and that makes crypto less accessible.
Mike.
From dlv at bwalk.dm.com Mon Jul 7 06:30:52 1997
From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 21:30:52 +0800
Subject: Liberating the Bits
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID: <3P3g0D6w165w@bwalk.dm.com>
Tim May writes:
> Let it be known I did not write any of the material above attributed to me.
And we're supposed to believe you?
I pity a man who has no sense of humor - like Timmy.
> (I'm just catching up on some of the accumulated e-mail of the past several
> days, and am looking at random messages that catch my interest. Perhaps I
> am missing some context, but I am quoted in the "Tim May wrote:" line, and
> yet none of that quoted section includes anything I wrote.)
Can you prove that you didn't write it?
What about the call to assassinate the president posted under your
name to the alt.cypherpunks newsgroup?
---
Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps
From dlv at bwalk.dm.com Mon Jul 7 06:30:54 1997
From: dlv at bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 21:30:54 +0800
Subject: Dr. Dobbs Cryptography and Security CD-ROM
In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19970707141240.00967c00@localhost>
Message-ID:
Mike writes:
> You mean that it would be fine for foreigners to copy and sell the CD, but
> not to put it on the net? Well, copyright law being what it is, makes this
> a bit tricky. An ftp administrator have never been sentenced for copyright
> violation (please correct me if I'm wrong),
An MIT student named Lamachhia(sp?) reportedly operated a warez FTP archive.
He got arrested and charged with something irrelevant (wire fraud??).
---
Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps
From raph at CS.Berkeley.EDU Mon Jul 7 07:04:59 1997
From: raph at CS.Berkeley.EDU (Raph Levien)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 22:04:59 +0800
Subject: List of reliable remailers
Message-ID: <199707071350.GAA10738@kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu>
I operate a remailer pinging service which collects detailed
information about remailer features and reliability.
To use it, just finger remailer-list at kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu
There is also a Web version of the same information, plus lots of
interesting links to remailer-related resources, at:
http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~raph/remailer-list.html
This information is used by premail, a remailer chaining and PGP
encrypting client for outgoing mail. For more information, see:
http://www.c2.org/~raph/premail.html
For the PGP public keys of the remailers, finger
pgpkeys at kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu
This is the current info:
REMAILER LIST
This is an automatically generated listing of remailers. The first
part of the listing shows the remailers along with configuration
options and special features for each of the remailers. The second
part shows the 12-day history, and average latency and uptime for each
remailer. You can also get this list by fingering
remailer-list at kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu.
$remailer{"extropia"} = " cpunk pgp special";
$remailer{"mix"} = " cpunk mix pgp hash latent cut ek ksub reord ?";
$remailer{"replay"} = " cpunk mix pgp hash latent cut post ek";
$remailer{"exon"} = " cpunk pgp hash latent cut ek";
$remailer{"haystack"} = " cpunk mix pgp hash latent cut ek";
$remailer{"lucifer"} = " cpunk mix pgp hash latent cut ek";
$remailer{"jam"} = " cpunk mix pgp hash middle latent cut ek";
$remailer{"winsock"} = " cpunk pgp pgponly hash cut ksub reord";
$remailer{'nym'} = ' newnym pgp';
$remailer{"balls"} = " cpunk pgp hash latent cut ek";
$remailer{"squirrel"} = " cpunk mix pgp pgponly hash latent cut ek";
$remailer{"middle"} = " cpunk mix pgp hash latent cut ek reord";
$remailer{'cyber'} = ' alpha pgp';
$remailer{'weasel'} = ' newnym pgp';
$remailer{"reno"} = " cpunk mix pgp hash middle latent cut ek reord ?";
$remailer{"wazoo"} = " cpunk mix pgp hash latent cut ek";
$remailer{"shaman"} = " cpunk pgp hash latent cut ek";
$remailer{"hidden"} = " cpunk pgp hash latent cut";
catalyst at netcom.com is _not_ a remailer.
lmccarth at ducie.cs.umass.edu is _not_ a remailer.
usura at replay.com is _not_ a remailer.
remailer at crynwr.com is _not_ a remailer.
There is no remailer at relay.com.
Groups of remailers sharing a machine or operator:
(cyber mix)
(weasel squirrel)
The alpha and nymrod nymservers are down due to abuse. However, you
can use the nym or weasel (newnym style) nymservers.
The cyber nymserver is quite reliable for outgoing mail (which is
what's measured here), but is exhibiting serious reliability problems
for incoming mail.
The squirrel and winsock remailers accept PGP encrypted mail only.
403 Permission denied errors have been caused by a flaky disk on the
Berkeley WWW server. This seems to be fixed now.
The penet remailer is closed.
Last update: Mon 7 Jul 97 6:47:50 PDT
remailer email address history latency uptime
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
jam remailer at cypherpunks.ca +**+*****++* 12:58 99.95%
weasel config at weasel.owl.de +++-+---+++ 1:43:42 99.91%
mix mixmaster at remail.obscura.com .-*...-..-.- 10:13:59 99.80%
replay remailer at replay.com +**+**- **** 4:56 99.79%
winsock winsock at rigel.cyberpass.net - -.------- 5:53:17 99.58%
squirrel mix at squirrel.owl.de +++-+ -+++ 1:42:06 99.46%
cyber alias at alias.cyberpass.net **+* +++*** 13:35 99.43%
nym config at nym.alias.net +##+##++#*## 2:48 99.36%
reno middleman at cyberpass.net --+.--* -*** 1:39:45 99.31%
hidden remailer at hidden.net 4:44:03 -0.56%
History key
* # response in less than 5 minutes.
* * response in less than 1 hour.
* + response in less than 4 hours.
* - response in less than 24 hours.
* . response in more than 1 day.
* _ response came back too late (more than 2 days).
cpunk
A major class of remailers. Supports Request-Remailing-To:
field.
eric
A variant of the cpunk style. Uses Anon-Send-To: instead.
penet
The third class of remailers (at least for right now). Uses
X-Anon-To: in the header.
pgp
Remailer supports encryption with PGP. A period after the
keyword means that the short name, rather than the full email
address, should be used as the encryption key ID.
hash
Supports ## pasting, so anything can be put into the headers of
outgoing messages.
ksub
Remailer always kills subject header, even in non-pgp mode.
nsub
Remailer always preserves subject header, even in pgp mode.
latent
Supports Matt Ghio's Latent-Time: option.
cut
Supports Matt Ghio's Cutmarks: option.
post
Post to Usenet using Post-To: or Anon-Post-To: header.
ek
Encrypt responses in reply blocks using Encrypt-Key: header.
special
Accepts only pgp encrypted messages.
mix
Can accept messages in Mixmaster format.
reord
Attempts to foil traffic analysis by reordering messages. Note:
I'm relying on the word of the remailer operator here, and
haven't verified the reord info myself.
mon
Remailer has been known to monitor contents of private email.
filter
Remailer has been known to filter messages based on content. If
not listed in conjunction with mon, then only messages destined
for public forums are subject to filtering.
Raph Levien
From trei at process.com Mon Jul 7 08:00:48 1997
From: trei at process.com (Peter Trei)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 23:00:48 +0800
Subject: Jim Bell 6
Message-ID: <199707071443.HAA23473@toad.com>
John Young writes:
> On June 26 the court handling Jim's case extended
> the time from June 30 to July 11 for the USA to file an
> indictment.
>
> This is from an on-line docket of the case via
> Public Access to Court Electronic Records (PACER)
> a subcription service for federal courts.
>
> No indication that Jim has been released, jailed since
> his arrest on May 16. No reason given for repeated
> waiver of right to a speedy trial.
>
> The docket's at:
>
> http://jya.com/jimbell-dock.htm
Thanks for keeping us up to date. Jim always seemed to
me to be a loony, but I never (and still don't) think
he's capable of the things the warrent alleges him to
have been planning.
Peter Trei
DISCLAIMER: The above is my opinion, no one else's.
From real at freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Mon Jul 7 08:06:30 1997
From: real at freenet.edmonton.ab.ca (Graham-John Bullers)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 23:06:30 +0800
Subject: [STEGO] RSA
In-Reply-To: <199707071052.MAA11508@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID:
On Mon, 7 Jul 1997, Anonymous wrote:
I think Vulis needs each of us to send ten copies of this back to him.
> Given Tim C. May's propensity to molest little children, is it any
> surprise that the state of California wants to have him castrated?
>
> o o
> /< >\ Tim C. May
> \\\_______///
> // \\
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Graham-John Bullers Moderator of alt.2600.moderated
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
email : :
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.freenet.edmonton.ab.ca/~real/index.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From nobody at REPLAY.COM Mon Jul 7 08:30:23 1997
From: nobody at REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 23:30:23 +0800
Subject: Dr. Dobbs Cryptography and Security CD-ROM
Message-ID: <199707071515.RAA19807@basement.replay.com>
On Mon, 7 Jul 1997, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote:
> Mike writes:
> > You mean that it would be fine for foreigners to copy and sell the CD, but
> > not to put it on the net? Well, copyright law being what it is, makes this
> > a bit tricky. An ftp administrator have never been sentenced for copyright
> > violation (please correct me if I'm wrong),
>
> An MIT student named Lamachhia(sp?) reportedly operated a warez FTP archive.
> He got arrested and charged with something irrelevant (wire fraud??).
The case against him was lost.
From rah at shipwright.com Mon Jul 7 08:38:10 1997
From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 23:38:10 +0800
Subject: [STEGO] RSA
In-Reply-To: <199707071052.MAA11508@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID:
I think I figured something out.
Tim hasn't been on the list for a while, and no bot noise. Tim gets on the
list, we get bot noise. The bot's listening for Tim.
Cheers,
Bob
At 6:52 am -0400 on 7/7/97, Anonymous wrote:
> Given Tim C. May's propensity to molest little children, is it any
> surprise that the state of California wants to have him castrated?
>
> o o
> /< >\ Tim C. May
> \\\_______///
> // \\
-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah at shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/
From rah at shipwright.com Mon Jul 7 08:41:05 1997
From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 23:41:05 +0800
Subject: FYI: NSA Requests Source Code From Elvis+
Message-ID:
--- begin forwarded text
Mime-Version: 1.0
X-Pgp-Keyid-Fprnt: C053E51D - 4FA3298150E404F2 782501876EA2146A
X-Pgp:
http://keys.pgp.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=vindex&search=Vinnie+Moscaritolo&fingerp
rint=on&exact=on
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 19:39:14 -0700
To: rah at shipwright.com
From: Vinnie Moscaritolo
Subject: FYI: NSA Requests Source Code From Elvis+
--- begin forwarded text
The following was posted on Computer Reseller News:
NSA Requests Source Code From Elvis+
By Deborah Gage
Mountain View, Calif.
3:00 p.m. EST Thurs., July 3, 1997
.............
The National Security Agency has asked Sun Microsystems Inc. and Elvis+,
the Russian networking company in which Sun has a 10 percent stake, to
turn over the source code of its SunScreen SKIP E+.
At press time, Sun and the NSA still were negotiating over which parts of
the code Sun must turn over. Elvis+ President and Chief Executive
Alexander Galitsky has refused to turn over all the source code on the
grounds that the government does not need it.
"We will offer the NSA a nondisclosure agreement and two to four code
modules so they can compare our source code with Sun's source code," said
Steven Hunzicker, chief operating officer of Russia Communications
Research Inc., a technology broker for Elvis+ in Los Gatos, Calif. "We
want to be reasonable and respectful, but not foolish. To ask for the
entire source code is unreasonable in any type of environment, business
or otherwise. Sun wouldn't give up their whole source code to the
government."
This is the latest development between the government, Elvis+ and Sun
over encryption policy. In May, Mountain View, Calif.-based Sun hoped to
sidestep U.S. encryption laws by selling the Elvis+ technology overseas
and importing it into the United States (CRN, May 26). Sun has exclusive
rights to the Elvis+ products on Windows 95 and 3.11. Moreover, the
Elvis+ technology is built from Sun's SKIP encryption and key management
protocol.
A Sun spokeswoman said Sun was in communication with the U.S. Department
of Commerce, but otherwise had no comment.
The Commerce Department, meanwhile, either will escalate its inquiry into
a full-scale investigation or resolve the issue, said a spokeswoman for
the department.
The NSA declined to comment on the matter.
Sources familiar with the inquiry said the Commerce Department is leaning
toward quiet resolution, despite the NSA's request. "This is not a fight
worth fighting," one source said. "They're watching the situation, but
right now no one wants to play."
Sun also acknowledged this week that the U.S. State Department is
investigating the diversion of a Sun server for unapproved use in China.
A Sun spokesman said the company is cooperating with the government and
is in touch with both the reseller and buyer of the server in an attempt
to get it back.
The spokesman refused to provide further details, citing national
security concerns.
--- end forwarded text
Vinnie Moscaritolo
That Crypto Guy at Apple...
http://www.vmeng.com/vinnie/
PGP: 4FA3298150E404F2782501876EA2146A
DSS/DH: B36343A790489C8D4E149147D57A7566C206F586
1 if by land, 2 if by sea.
Paul Revere - encryption 1775
--- end forwarded text
-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah at shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/
From paulmerrill at acm.org Mon Jul 7 09:00:19 1997
From: paulmerrill at acm.org (Paul H. Merrill)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 00:00:19 +0800
Subject: Hack the Mars rover
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID: <33C13960.7AAF@acm.org>
Ryan Anderson wrote:
> Besides, how much encryption is needed between two points if intercepting
> the traffic is expensive, the communications protocol is undocumented (as
> far as anyone outside NASA is concerned), and the actual frequency is also
> hard to find?
>
The appropriate question is how much encryption (and other security) is
needed if interrupting the traffic causes the loss of a great deal of
money and difficult (if possible at all) fixes. This is the mindset of
the Fed security wienies when specifying and designing; thus it must be
the mindset of the non-Fed Wienie looking to crack.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Paul H. Merrill Merlyn Enterprises
paulmerrill at acm.org
I have no opinions (just facts)
so it doesn't matter what my employer thinks.
From mwohler at ix.netcom.com Mon Jul 7 09:24:01 1997
From: mwohler at ix.netcom.com (Marc J. Wohler)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 00:24:01 +0800
Subject: can i join
Message-ID: <3.0.16.19970707115957.44179a86@popd.ix.netcom.com>
At 10:37 PM 7/6/97 -0500, you wrote:
>
>Drifter0 at aol.com wrote:
>
>> thanx
>
> ... Oh, Jesus, another stupid AOLer. Well, let me go through the
>proper procedures.
>
>Time for the flame-form.
>-----------------------------
>Dear:
Bennett,
I got some chuckles from your 'Flame Form' and sympathize with view
expressed therein.
However:
How do you propose that we get our import message of strong crypto
awareness out to the clueless if we display elitism, impatience and
intolerance to their ignorance?
Marc
From kent at songbird.com Mon Jul 7 09:26:56 1997
From: kent at songbird.com (Kent Crispin)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 00:26:56 +0800
Subject: [STEGO] RSA
In-Reply-To: <199707071052.MAA11508@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID: <19970707091103.21159@bywater.songbird.com>
On Mon, Jul 07, 1997 at 10:39:04AM -0400, Robert Hettinga wrote:
> I think I figured something out.
>
> Tim hasn't been on the list for a while, and no bot noise. Tim gets on the
> list, we get bot noise. The bot's listening for Tim.
>
> Cheers,
> Bob
It should be clear by now that Tim actually runs the bot.
--
Kent Crispin "No reason to get excited",
kent at songbird.com the thief he kindly spoke...
PGP fingerprint: B1 8B 72 ED 55 21 5E 44 61 F4 58 0F 72 10 65 55
http://songbird.com/kent/pgp_key.html
From ulf at fitug.de Mon Jul 7 09:37:26 1997
From: ulf at fitug.de (Ulf =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=F6ller?=)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 00:37:26 +0800
Subject: FYI: NSA Requests Source Code From Elvis+
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID: <9707071618.AA63188@public.uni-hamburg.de>
> The National Security Agency has asked Sun Microsystems Inc. and Elvis+,
> the Russian networking company in which Sun has a 10 percent stake, to
> turn over the source code of its SunScreen SKIP E+.
Why should the US government get access to the source code of foreign
product being imported to the US?
From alano at teleport.com Mon Jul 7 10:06:34 1997
From: alano at teleport.com (Alan)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 01:06:34 +0800
Subject: Jim Bell 6
In-Reply-To: <199707071443.HAA23473@toad.com>
Message-ID:
On Mon, 7 Jul 1997, Peter Trei wrote:
> John Young writes:
>
> > On June 26 the court handling Jim's case extended
> > the time from June 30 to July 11 for the USA to file an
> > indictment.
> >
> > This is from an on-line docket of the case via
> > Public Access to Court Electronic Records (PACER)
> > a subcription service for federal courts.
> >
> > No indication that Jim has been released, jailed since
> > his arrest on May 16. No reason given for repeated
> > waiver of right to a speedy trial.
> >
> > The docket's at:
> >
> > http://jya.com/jimbell-dock.htm
>
> Thanks for keeping us up to date. Jim always seemed to
> me to be a loony, but I never (and still don't) think
> he's capable of the things the warrent alleges him to
> have been planning.
Agreed. The time I met Jim he seemed like a loon. A harmless one at
that... (The stinkbomb attacks are about as far as he would go. (And I
happen to know that he is guilty of at least one of those.))
The government seems pretty afraid of someone who only has a history of
petty vandalism with chemicals. I wonder what else they are afraid of and
to what lengths they will go to stop it.
Reminds me of some of the "government is dead" threads of a couple of
years back. My response was something to the effect of "The government is
not like an old man dying in a corner. It is more like an old man having
an epeliptic seizure in a crowded mall with lots of guns.". If the
govenrment is on the way to losing its power over the people, they are
going to take as many of us down with them on the way out.
alano at teleport.com | "Those who are without history are doomed to retype it."
From randerso at ece.eng.wayne.edu Mon Jul 7 10:06:53 1997
From: randerso at ece.eng.wayne.edu (Ryan Anderson)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 01:06:53 +0800
Subject: Hack the Mars rover
In-Reply-To: <33C13960.7AAF@acm.org>
Message-ID:
On Mon, 7 Jul 1997, Paul H. Merrill wrote:
> The appropriate question is how much encryption (and other security) is
> needed if interrupting the traffic causes the loss of a great deal of
> money and difficult (if possible at all) fixes. This is the mindset of
> the Fed security wienies when specifying and designing; thus it must be
> the mindset of the non-Fed Wienie looking to crack.
Well, if it matters any, my initial impression was that this discussion
was based upon taking over the rover, not necessarily upon just performing
a DoS attack on it. Frankly, I can't see a point to a DoS attack...
taking it over, on the other hand could be fun..
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ryan Anderson - "Who knows, even the horse might sing"
Wayne State University - CULMA "May you live in interesting times.."
randerso at ece.eng.wayne.edu Ohio = VYI of the USA
PGP Fingerprint - 7E 8E C6 54 96 AC D9 57 E4 F8 AE 9C 10 7E 78 C9
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From user329 at ybecker.net Tue Jul 8 01:06:59 1997
From: user329 at ybecker.net (user329 at ybecker.net)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 01:06:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: You Might Find This Interesting & Informative. I Did.
Message-ID: <011297055501222@g_health.com>
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
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- 30 -
From Kevin.L.Prigge-2 at tc.umn.edu Mon Jul 7 10:07:18 1997
From: Kevin.L.Prigge-2 at tc.umn.edu (Kevin L Prigge)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 01:07:18 +0800
Subject: Dr. Dobbs Cryptography and Security CD-ROM
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID: <33c11bde062e002@earth.tc.umn.edu>
Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM said:
> Mike writes:
> > You mean that it would be fine for foreigners to copy and sell the CD, but
> > not to put it on the net? Well, copyright law being what it is, makes this
> > a bit tricky. An ftp administrator have never been sentenced for copyright
> > violation (please correct me if I'm wrong),
>
> An MIT student named Lamachhia(sp?) reportedly operated a warez FTP archive.
> He got arrested and charged with something irrelevant (wire fraud??).
>
And the charge was dismissed.
http://www.leepfrog.com/E-Law/Cases/US_v_LaMacchia.html
--
Kevin L. Prigge | "The only thing that saves us from
Systems Software Programmer | the bureaucracy is it's
Enterprise Internet Services | inefficiency." - Eugene McCarthy
University of Minnesota |
From tcmay at got.net Mon Jul 7 10:20:02 1997
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 01:20:02 +0800
Subject: Is the Vulisbot triggered by my posts?
In-Reply-To: <199707071052.MAA11508@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID:
At 7:39 AM -0700 7/7/97, Robert Hettinga wrote:
>I think I figured something out.
>
>Tim hasn't been on the list for a while, and no bot noise. Tim gets on the
>list, we get bot noise. The bot's listening for Tim.
>
An interesting observation. Indeed, I've been down in LA and San Diego for
the past 5 days.
Did the Vulisbot stop posting during my absence? My vague recollection is
that the bot had been quiescent for some time prior to my trip down south,
and I had been (vaguely) ascribing this quiescence to the problems Vulis
has said he is having with his normal computer.
If the Vulisbot is triggered by my posts (but fortunately is limited to
only one or so per day, not to each of my N posts per day), I don't plan to
stop posting just to save you all the halfwit of whomever is responsible.
--Tim May
There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws.
Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay at got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."
From tcmay at got.net Mon Jul 7 10:30:19 1997
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 01:30:19 +0800
Subject: FYI: NSA Requests Source Code From Elvis+
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:
At 9:18 AM -0700 7/7/97, Ulf M�ller wrote:
>> The National Security Agency has asked Sun Microsystems Inc. and Elvis+,
>> the Russian networking company in which Sun has a 10 percent stake, to
>> turn over the source code of its SunScreen SKIP E+.
>
>Why should the US government get access to the source code of foreign
>product being imported to the US?
Because the United States of America is no longer a nation of laws. And
because, as some clever wag put it several years ago, "'national security'
is the root pass phrase of the Constitution."
(Sidestepping the issue that there are many thousands of
variously-interpreted laws, and presumably some law could be found
somewhere which says the NSA has the authority to demand whatever they
wish...)
I'd like to see Sun take a strong stance on this: "Show us the specific law
which lets you look at _imports_."
Actually, they have a sort of case for looking at imports: If imports are
unrestricted but exports are controlled, even if the export is just
re-export of an import (!), then someone somewhere in government presumably
has to confirm they are the same.
(And there are even some laws banning reexport of cryptographic code even
if it was imported, as we all know.)
But the real reason is that NSA and Commerce don't like this trend of
foreign developers sidestepping the U.S. crypto export laws...as with
Elvis+, Stronghold, etc. And they ain't going to allow it to go on for much
longer.
And criminals in the Congress will compliantly give them the laws they want
to put an end to this.
--Tim May
There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws.
Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay at got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."
From rah at shipwright.com Mon Jul 7 10:52:52 1997
From: rah at shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 01:52:52 +0800
Subject: DCSB: Duncan Frissell and MarketEarth
Message-ID:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
The Digital Commerce Society of Boston
Presents
Mr. Duncan Frissell,
Frissell Associates
"Markets Rule! OK
Bet on MarketEarth -- Bet Against Bureaucracy"
Tuesday, August 5, 1997
12 - 2 PM
The Downtown Harvard Club of Boston
One Federal Street, Boston, MA
Mr. Frissell, the Net's most enthusiastic Technoptimist will answer such
questions as: Why did Central Planning, Deutsche Telecom, and X.25
lose and the Market, telecoms competition, and TCP/IP win? Can banks
compete with nonbanks? Why controlling the Nets is as hard as controlling
the thoughts of other people. Why popular measures like immigration
control are doomed. What do such phenomenon as the Jewish Holiday
Effect, the Sack Full of Cats in the River Effect, the Canadian Air
Service Effect, the Saturday Morning Shopping Trip Effect, and the
Taiwanese Privatization Effect tell us about the future of government
and the individual? Why things are not the same and never will be again?
Why the Market is "X-The Unknown," "The Blob," -- and why even Steve
McQueen couldn't save us from it?
"Duncan Frissell makes Kevin Kelly sound like Jimmy Carter." -- Anonymous
Mr. Frissell, an Attorney, privacy consultant, and author, has worked
in what he insists on calling the "Right Wing Nut Investment Community"
for more than 20 years.
This meeting of the Digital Commerce Society of Boston will be held on
Tuesday, August 5, 1997, from 12pm - 2pm at the Downtown Branch of the
Harvard Club of Boston, on One Federal Street. The price for lunch is
$30.00. This price includes lunch, room rental, various A/V hardware, and
the speaker's lunch. ;-). The Harvard Club *does* have dress code: jackets
and ties for men (and no sneakers or jeans), and "appropriate business
attire" (whatever that means), for women. Fair warning: since we purchase
these luncheons in advance, we will be unable to refund the price of your
lunch if the Club finds you in violation of the dress code.
We will attempt to record this meeting and put it on the web in RealAudio
format at some future date
We need to receive a company check, or money order, (or, if we *really*
know you, a personal check) payable to "The Harvard Club of Boston", by
Saturday, August 2, or you won't be on the list for lunch. Checks
payable to anyone else but The Harvard Club of Boston will have to be
sent back.
Checks should be sent to Robert Hettinga, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston,
Massachusetts, 02131. Again, they *must* be made payable to "The Harvard
Club of Boston", in the amount of $30.00.
If anyone has questions, or has a problem with these arrangements (We've
had to work with glacial A/P departments more than once, for instance),
please let us know via e-mail, and we'll see if we can work something
out.
Upcoming speakers for DCSB are:
September Christof Paar Elliptic Curve Cryptography
October Peter Cassidy Military Fiat and Digital Commerce
November Carl Ellison Identity and Certification for Electronic
Commerce
We are actively searching for future speakers. If you are in Boston on
the first Tuesday of the month, and you would like to make a
presentation to the Society, please send e-mail to the DCSB Program
Commmittee, care of Robert Hettinga, .
For more information about the Digital Commerce Society of Boston, send
"info dcsb" in the body of a message to .
If you want to subscribe to the DCSB e-mail list, send "subscribe dcsb" in
the body of a message to .
We look forward to seeing you there!
Cheers,
Robert Hettinga
Moderator,
The Digital Commerce Society of Boston
- -----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah at shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/
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From tcmay at got.net Mon Jul 7 11:01:25 1997
From: tcmay at got.net (Tim May)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 02:01:25 +0800
Subject: Direct satellite systems?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19970705230758.0072d7e8@netcom10.netcom.com>
Message-ID:
At 11:07 PM -0700 7/5/97, Lucky Green wrote:
>My local cable killing Mars rover deployment in favor of local dog tag
>ordinances (as required by the city), made me realize it that getting my
>own dish is way overdue.
>
>I would appreciate reports on any first hand experiences subscribers to
>this list have with satellite services. Yes, NASA TV and the SF channel is
>a must. :-)
I'm copying the list for my usual reasons. Plus, others may be interested.
I've had a DSS system for 15 months, and strongly recommend it, with a few
caveats I'll get to. I run my system into a Sony S-VHS deck and thence out
to a 32-inch direct view Pro-Scan monitor. (And to sets in other rooms.)
DSS is the leading 18-inch system, with DirectTV, USSB, Hughes, RCA, Sony,
etc. being the main names. The main competing system being the Dish TV
system.
For about $60 a month I get the usual hundred or so channels, 5 channels of
HBO, 3 channels of Showtime, 3 of Cinemax, 3 of The Movie Channel, and
multiple others. And CNN, CNN-International, CNN-FN, blah blah. And CSPAN
(Congressional Sycophants, Panderers and Assholes Network). And the Sci-Fi
channel, though I never watch it (plenty of good recent vintage SF movies
on the major HBO types of networks, and Sci Fi channel often has
infomercials, etc.).
There is supposedly an Internet downfeed of some sort coming, but I'm not
counting on it. (The receiver box has a digital output cable; no uplink, of
course, but the proposed use involves a telephone connection for the user
responses.)
Advantages: Dish is very small and light. Fixed aiming, which means it can
be aimed and forgotten, with no mechanical motors, no maintenance, no lag
time in reacquiring a satellite. Dish can be mounted anywhere a clear view
of the southern sky is available. Exact aiming details for any location are
available (try Web sites, or Usenet newsgroups like *.dss.*, etc.). The
dish can be bolted on the side of houses, apartments, etc. Not in trees,
though, or where trees will even partly block the line of sight.
The picture quality is very good for some things. No snow, no thermal noise
("sparklies"). See next section.
Disadvantages: The system is all digital transmission. MPEG-2 is used for
compression. This can result in compression artifacts, especially in
fast-changing scenes (sports, for example).
The first year I had the system, I noticed almost no compression artifacts.
Recently, though, the various programmers like HBO and Encore added more
channels. I surmise this was done by cranking up the compression factors,
as many people are complaining loudly on the Net about seeing more
"pixelation" or "blocking" artififacts.
I'm hoping they tweak the algorithms and ratios to lessen this problem.
One or more additional satellites are expected to go up, so this may help.
I'd still recommend it. Over the competing systems like Dish TV, and
certainly over the 8-foot BUDs (Big Ugly Dishes, the C-band systems).
Readers with good memories may note that I mentioned Ku-band satellites in
my Crypto Anarchist Manifesto, written and distributed in 1988. Things have
come full circle.
--Tim May
There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws.
Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay at got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."
From markdan at wans.net Tue Jul 8 02:11:19 1997
From: markdan at wans.net (markdan at wans.net)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 02:11:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Free Florida Vacation
Message-ID: <0000000000.AAA000@wans.net>
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* This advertisement is being used for the purpose of soliciting Interval Ownership time periods.
From kent at songbird.com Mon Jul 7 11:18:57 1997
From: kent at songbird.com (Kent Crispin)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 02:18:57 +0800
Subject: NRA and National Online Records Check bullshit
In-Reply-To: <19970702180331.11847@bywater.songbird.com>
Message-ID: <19970707110450.55022@bywater.songbird.com>
On Wed, Jul 02, 1997 at 08:21:23PM -0500, William H. Geiger III wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
>In <19970702180331.11847 at bywater.songbird.com>, on 07/02/97
> at 06:03 PM, Kent Crispin said:
>
>>"There is something right when Kent Crispin is not a felon under an
>>increasing number of laws."
>
>Just goes to show that you can goose-step with the best of them Kent.
You learn the darndest things on this list....
--
Kent Crispin "No reason to get excited",
kent at songbird.com the thief he kindly spoke...
PGP fingerprint: B1 8B 72 ED 55 21 5E 44 61 F4 58 0F 72 10 65 55
http://songbird.com/kent/pgp_key.html
From frissell at panix.com Mon Jul 7 11:45:32 1997
From: frissell at panix.com (Duncan Frissell)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 02:45:32 +0800
Subject: Jim Bell 6
In-Reply-To: <199707071443.HAA23473@toad.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19970707142902.03808124@panix.com>
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
At 09:43 AM 7/7/97 -0700, Alan wrote:
>Reminds me of some of the "government is dead" threads of a couple of
>years back. My response was something to the effect of "The government is
>not like an old man dying in a corner. It is more like an old man having
>an epeliptic seizure in a crowded mall with lots of guns.". If the
>govenrment is on the way to losing its power over the people, they are
>going to take as many of us down with them on the way out.
Though neither the USSR nor the DDR did when they "went out." Likewise the
Catholic Church when it "went out" (as a secular political power in Europe)
at some point between 1400 and 1900.
Those three institutions killed the bulk of their victims in their earlier
more virile phases than they did in their senesence. That seems likely with
our government as well.
Single incidents like Bell's arrest prove nothing. Operation Sun Devil
looked big at the time but did not lead to an effective government crackdown
on cyberspace. It was actually a tactical and strategic loss for them. If
Bell gets a dismissal or pleads to minor charges, it will be a loss for the
Feds as well. Their losses against Phil Z and Jake Baker exposed the
weakness of their control regimes when applied to the Net.
DCF
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From sunder at brainlink.com Mon Jul 7 12:03:38 1997
From: sunder at brainlink.com (Ray Arachelian)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 03:03:38 +0800
Subject: FYI: NSA Requests Source Code From Elvis+
In-Reply-To: <9707071618.AA63188@public.uni-hamburg.de>
Message-ID:
On Mon, 7 Jul 1997, Ulf [iso-8859-1] M�ller wrote:
> Why should the US government get access to the source code of foreign
> product being imported to the US?
Because they are scum who don't care about the property rights of
corporations. I wonder what would happen if Sun would instead say "Fuck
you no way" or whether they were threatened into giving it up?
=====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos==============
.+.^.+.| Ray Arachelian | "If you wanna touch the sky, you must |./|\.
..\|/..|sunder at sundernet.com| be prepared to die. And I hate cough |/\|/\
<--*-->| ------------------ | syrup, don't you?" |\/|\/
../|\..| "A toast to Odin, | For with those which eternal lie, with |.\|/.
.+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"| strange aeons, even death may die. |.....
======================== http://www.sundernet.com =========================
From paulmerrill at acm.org Mon Jul 7 12:43:16 1997
From: paulmerrill at acm.org (Paul H. Merrill)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 03:43:16 +0800
Subject: Hack the Mars rover
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID: <33C16E41.6270@acm.org>
Ryan Anderson wrote:
>
> On Mon, 7 Jul 1997, Paul H. Merrill wrote:
>
> > The appropriate question is how much encryption (and other security) is
> > needed if interrupting the traffic causes the loss of a great deal of
> > money and difficult (if possible at all) fixes. This is the mindset of
> > the Fed security wienies when specifying and designing; thus it must be
> > the mindset of the non-Fed Wienie looking to crack.
>
> Well, if it matters any, my initial impression was that this discussion
> was based upon taking over the rover, not necessarily upon just performing
> a DoS attack on it. Frankly, I can't see a point to a DoS attack...
> taking it over, on the other hand could be fun..
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Ryan Anderson - "Who knows, even the horse might sing"
> Wayne State University - CULMA "May you live in interesting times.."
> randerso at ece.eng.wayne.edu Ohio = VYI of the USA
> PGP Fingerprint - 7E 8E C6 54 96 AC D9 57 E4 F8 AE 9C 10 7E 78 C9
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Picture breaking the Rover -- How many Earthly JoyRides end in Wrecks?
Picture "Finding an undocumented feature" which causes it to cease and
desist.
Picture the simple lost time on target for the mission.
Each of these and a bunch more goes into the "cost of takeover" for the
equation. In short, of course it is encrypted.
DISCLAIMER: Never said it, never meant it, and I apologize to anyone
who got the impression I was speaking as thpough others were theorizing
on simple break the rich kid's toys escapades.
PHM
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Paul H. Merrill Merlyn Enterprises
paulmerrill at acm.org
I have no opinions (just facts)
so it doesn't matter what my employer thinks.
From azur at netcom.com Mon Jul 7 12:55:41 1997
From: azur at netcom.com (Steve Schear)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 03:55:41 +0800
Subject: Hoarding
Message-ID:
I heard yesterday, second hand, that hoarding of large amounts of food is
now a federal crime. The explanation I heard was that it was intended to
thwart militias. Has anyone else on the list heard this loony info?
--Steve
PGP encrypted mail PREFERRED (See MIT/BAL servers for my PK)
PGP Fingerprint: FE 90 1A 95 9D EA 8D 61 81 2E CC A9 A4 4A FB A9
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Schear (N7ZEZ) | Internet: azur at netcom.com
7075 West Gowan Road | Voice: 1-702-658-2654
Suite 2148 | Fax: 1-702-658-2673
Las Vegas, NV 89129 |
---------------------------------------------------------------------
God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change;
The courage to change the things I can;
The weapons that make the difference;
And the wisdom to hide the bodies of the people that got in my way;-)
"Surveilence is ultimately just another form of media, and thus,
potential entertainment."
--G. Beato
"We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million
typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of
Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is
not true." -- Dr. Robert Silensky
From nobody at www.video-collage.com Mon Jul 7 13:06:48 1997
From: nobody at www.video-collage.com (Unprivileged user)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 04:06:48 +0800
Subject: Direct satellite systems?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19970705230758.0072d7e8@netcom10.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <97Jul7.155601edt.32257@brickwall.ceddec.com>
On Sun, 6 Jul 1997, Lucky Green wrote:
>
> My local cable killing Mars rover deployment in favor of local dog tag
> ordinances (as required by the city), made me realize it that getting my
> own dish is way overdue.
>
> I would appreciate reports on any first hand experiences subscribers to
> this list have with satellite services. Yes, NASA TV and the SF channel is
> a must. :-)
I have the Dish Network (www.dishnetwork.com 1-800-333-dish). They don't
have NASA, but do have SCI-FI, and National Empowerment Television
(net.fcref.org), both C-spans, court-tv, several cnn/cnbc type channels.
I am really happy with it. With their "better system" (dual lbnf) you can
hang up to 4 receivers - which have to be their own, but the 5000 can get
off-air and includes event timers and even caller-id! They also offer 6
channel HBO, multi cinemax, etc. I would take a look.
The big dish would get most of the above, and NASA, but would cost more.
I also looked at primestar/ussb/etc. Also lots of channels, but a
different set. I like NET, and some of the channels only on dish, but you
may prefer the channels other providers have
--- reply to tzeruch - at - ceddec - dot - com ---
From nobody at www.video-collage.com Mon Jul 7 13:07:07 1997
From: nobody at www.video-collage.com (Unprivileged user)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 04:07:07 +0800
Subject: e$: $MTP? (fwd)
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID: <97Jul7.160022edt.32258@brickwall.ceddec.com>
On Sat, 5 Jul 1997, Paul Bradley wrote:
> > > Frankly, I see no other solution to this problem in the long run except for
> > > postage, which means it's probably time to start figuring out, in earnest,
> > > how to make it all work. Whoever becomes the lowest cost producer of this
> > > kind of software stands to make a whole *bunch* of money.
> >
> > We still need to work out how to fit mailing lists fit into this without
> > eliminating them entirely. Chargebacks to the subscribers? If this list
> > will work in a proposed plan, I think all the others probably would as
> > well.. :-)
>
> I personally see hashcash as the ideal way to solve this problem, and in
> Adam Back`s analysis of the hashcash solution he mentions mailing lists
> and suggest that filtering software have an explicit "filter in" command,
> so you could eliminate any mail coming from the list from needing to have
> cash attached. Of course the spammers could then just spam mailing lists,
> but that it a much smaller problem than the current random UCE problem.
If all mail relays were either limited to sending to or from their
domains, and had a settable quota on Bcc: it would go a long way. Since
mailers are high in Bcc, they could get a large quota.
I don't think spammers now send 500 discrete messages, especially long
ones, merely Bcc: 500 people.
--- reply to tzeruch - at - ceddec - dot - com ---
From shamrock at netcom.com Mon Jul 7 13:10:44 1997
From: shamrock at netcom.com (Lucky Green)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 04:10:44 +0800
Subject: Hack the Mars rover
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:
Yes, the idea was to take over the rover. A DoS would be an extremely
idiotic thing to do. Of course so would be damaging the rover. But a
little cruise... :-)
-- Lucky Green PGP encrypted mail preferred
On Mon, 7 Jul 1997, Ryan Anderson wrote:
> On Mon, 7 Jul 1997, Paul H. Merrill wrote:
>
> > The appropriate question is how much encryption (and other security) is
> > needed if interrupting the traffic causes the loss of a great deal of
> > money and difficult (if possible at all) fixes. This is the mindset of
> > the Fed security wienies when specifying and designing; thus it must be
> > the mindset of the non-Fed Wienie looking to crack.
>
> Well, if it matters any, my initial impression was that this discussion
> was based upon taking over the rover, not necessarily upon just performing
> a DoS attack on it. Frankly, I can't see a point to a DoS attack...
> taking it over, on the other hand could be fun..
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Ryan Anderson -