Your messages to cypherpunks
Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many
gmkarl at gmail.com
Sun Sep 24 03:22:34 PDT 2023
the numbers are sparse because of issues manually downloading on
mobile device. i may have missed an email but it would not match a
numbering gap. i experienced file system mutation during the upload
around 17, 18, and 19 (18 disappeared after upload and was replaced by
an incomplete download that wouldnt cancel; the redownload was also
named 18. .. or something like that … )
this is just formal history of a discussion around gmail presently
heavily ratelimiting list messages.
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From: Greg Newby <gbnewby at petascale.org>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2023 21:29:10 -0700
Message-ID: <CANLuyJYsCWbJBv-vfw7Q+eE1AeKrdLX31-AS20qb2vxQ_EEOYA at mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Your messages to cypherpunks
To: mailbombbin <mailbombbin at gmail.com>
Cc: Karl Semich <gmkarl at gmail.com>, Greg Newby <gbnewby at pglaf.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000045c33a0605867819"
--00000000000045c33a0605867819
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Hi Karl.
You are sending too many messages to the cypherpunks at cpunks.org list.
Because you are sending many messages per hour, many or most recipients are
not g\
etting them. The mail servers refuse to accept so many messages per day
from the \
cpunks server.
People on gmail, yahoo and other popular servers are not seeing your
messages.
They are clogging up the mail queue on my server (the cpunks server).
There are over 800 pending deliveries right now because your messages are
rejecte\
d by the subscriber's email servers.
INSTEAD it would be great for you to send just a few messages per hour at
most. I\
f you combine your many short messages into a few longer messages, that
will keep\
things flowing correctly.
Write back if you need further information about this. I don't want to
squelch yo\
ur content, but the rate of messaging is too high. The solution is to send
fewer \
messages with more content in each.
Thanks for understanding.
~ Greg Newby (cpunks admin)
--00000000000045c33a0605867819
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Karl.<br><br>You are sending too many messages to the <=
a href=3D"mailto:cypherpunks at cpunks.org">cypherpunks at cpunks.org</a> list.<b=
r><br>Because you are sending many messages per hour, many or most recipien=
ts are not g\<br>etting them. The mail servers refuse to accept so many mes=
sages per day from the \<br>cpunks server.<br><br>People on gmail, yahoo an=
d other popular servers are not seeing your messages.<br><br>They are clogg=
ing up the mail queue on my server (the cpunks server).<br><br>There are ov=
er 800 pending deliveries right now because your messages are rejecte\<br>d=
by the subscriber's email servers.<br><br>INSTEAD it would be great fo=
r you to send just a few messages per hour at most. I\<br>f you combine you=
r many short messages into a few longer messages, that will keep\<br>=C2=A0=
things flowing correctly.<br><br>Write back if you need further information=
about this. I don't want to squelch yo\<br>ur content, but the rate of=
messaging is too high. The solution is to send fewer \<br>messages with mo=
re content in each.<br><br>Thanks for understanding.<br>=C2=A0 ~ Greg Newby=
(cpunks admin)</div>
--00000000000045c33a0605867819--
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From: mailbombbin <mailbombbin at gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2023 08:24:45 -0600
Message-ID: <CABA1gGKtFOtU9ZX5m8Hkb9E+9CDoya8e_8VvywRH_fgJXB8Dkg at mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Your messages to cypherpunks
To: Greg Newby <gbnewby at petascale.org>
Cc: Karl Semich <gmkarl at gmail.com>, Greg Newby <gbnewby at pglaf.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Greg thank you for messaging me about this.
So you know, I have been receiving high-frequency mailbombs sent via
the list, in the form of password recovery requests and removal
requests. I have tens of thousands of these filtered on this address,
and they delay the delivery and receipt of mails for me. They come
reliably, many per hour.
Is it possible this is the source of the clog on the list, rather than
my sporadic posts?
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From: Greg Newby <gbnewby at petascale.org>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2023 07:43:51 -0700
Message-ID: <CANLuyJbq76aoo9Evt1h5i5rdX91Ouuyf1UJ8cYGD8Z8uvQM3vw at mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Your messages to cypherpunks
To: mailbombbin <mailbombbin at gmail.com>
Cc: Karl Semich <gmkarl at gmail.com>, Greg Newby <gbnewby at pglaf.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000008cec7f06058f0eb2"
--0000000000008cec7f06058f0eb2
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Hi Karl. Thanks for your note.
There are indeed two problems. I spent several hours yesterday going
through logs and making a few adjustments to the settings on the server, so
I think I have a reasonable understanding of the situation.
For the messages that YOU send, there is definitely a problem. There are
thousands of bounces still in the queue from cypherpunks subscribers where
the email system they use, like gmail or yahoo, started rejecting message
from you saying that too many messages have been sent.
This is rate limiting by the email services. It's not just gmail and yahoo
that do this.
The end result is that your messages are not delivered immediately to
subscribers. Sometimes they bounce permanently (i.e., will never be
delivered) and other times it's a temporary issue until, after a quiet
period of at least a few hours, the messages are accepted again.
Here is the first part of an example log message that lists around 100
gmail users:
D34D811C0238 11973 Sat Sep 16 21:07:34
cypherpunks-bounces at lists.cpunks.org
(host alt1.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com[209.85.202.27] said: 421-4.7.28
[69.55.231.143 15] Our system has detected an unusual rate of
421-4.7.28 unsolicited mail originating from your IP address. To protect
our 421-4.7.28 users from spam, mail sent from your IP address has been
temporarily 421-4.7.28 rate limited. Please visit 421-4.7.28
https://support.google.com/mail/?p=3DUnsolicitedRateLimitError to 421 4.7.2=
8
review our Bulk Email Senders Guidelines.
n18-20020a5d4012000000b003200b1e9219si887019wrp.921 - gsmtp (in reply to
end of DATA command))
Unfortunately this doesn't just impact messages from you. Any message from
the server to those services is held or bounced.
Because cypherpunks isn't the only service on my server, this means that
some of the other activities are impacted. This includes one of my key
volunteers for Project Gutenberg who utilizes a yahoo.com email address --
my messages to him were rejected, even though he has nothing to do with
cypherpunks and it was even from a different hostname (lists.pglaf.org not
lists.cpunks.org, but they are both hosted on the same system).
I hope this longish explanation explains why the frequency of your messages
creates a big problem for the cypherpunks list, why many subscribers will
never see your messages, and why it creates indigestion for other stuff the
server needs to do.
The second problem is that someone has targeted you for the unsubscription
mail bombs. I spent awhile trying to mitigate this, and the only immediate
solution would be to remove you from the cypherpunks subscriber list and
let you subscribe from another address.
Luckily those messages seem to have stopped for now. Yesterday, for perhaps
12 hours, around one password reset per second was being sent. This
resulted in a backlog of over 30000 (!) messages that were clogging up my
server, but could not be delivered to you because of gmail rate limiting.
So, you would have gotten a whole lot more of those messages if I hadn't
deleted them all.
The attack was distributed. Each request came from a different IP address -
I counted over 200,000 of these. I'm not sure how many you got before I
deleted 30,000 and it seems the attack stopped early in the evening
Saturday night (maybe by 6pm PDT). If it hasn't stopped entirely, it is
definitely a lot less frequent now. I could take a closer look at the
logfiles if it might be helpful.
If the attack was from a single IP address or group of IP addresses I could
block them easily enough. But they came from a different address every time=
.
Clearly someone got on the dark web and hired a botnet army to send all of
these password reset requests against you.
So, that is also a problem because it also caused gmail (your mail service)
to start rejecting messages to anyone.
I'm going to be outside for the next 8-10 hours, and will see any messages
from you when I return. Thanks for your understanding about this. As I
tried to say below, I'm not trying to censor your messages. But the
frequency of messages should decrease to avoid the first type of problem
above, and this can be done by you sending fewer longer messages rather
than many short messages.
Best regards,
Greg
On Sun, Sep 17, 2023 at 7:24=E2=80=AFAM mailbombbin <mailbombbin at gmail.com>=
wrote:
> Greg thank you for messaging me about this.
>
> So you know, I have been receiving high-frequency mailbombs sent via
> the list, in the form of password recovery requests and removal
> requests. I have tens of thousands of these filtered on this address,
> and they delay the delivery and receipt of mails for me. They come
> reliably, many per hour.
>
> Is it possible this is the source of the clog on the list, rather than
> my sporadic posts?
>
--0000000000008cec7f06058f0eb2
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Hi Karl. Thanks for your note.</div><div><br></div><d=
iv>There are indeed two problems. I spent several hours yesterday going thr=
ough logs and making a few adjustments to the settings on the server, so I =
think I have a reasonable understanding of the situation.</div><div><br></d=
iv><div>For the messages that YOU send, there is definitely a problem. Ther=
e are thousands of bounces still in the queue from cypherpunks subscribers =
where the email system they use, like gmail or yahoo, started rejecting mes=
sage from you saying that too many messages have been sent.</div><div><br><=
/div><div>This is rate limiting by the email services. It's not just gm=
ail and yahoo that do this.</div><div><br></div><div>The end result is that=
your messages are not delivered immediately to subscribers. Sometimes they=
bounce permanently (i.e., will never be delivered) and other times it'=
s a temporary issue until, after a quiet period of at least a few hours, th=
e messages are accepted again.</div><div><br></div><div>Here is the first p=
art of an example log message that lists around 100 gmail users:</div><div>=
D34D811C0238 =C2=A0 11973 Sat Sep 16 21:07:34 =C2=A0<a href=3D"mailto:cyphe=
rpunks-bounces at lists.cpunks.org">cypherpunks-bounces at lists.cpunks.org</a><b=
r>(host <a href=3D"http://alt1.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com">alt1.gmail-smtp-=
in.l.google.com</a>[209.85.202.27] said: 421-4.7.28 [69.55.231.143 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A015] Our system has detected an unusual rate of 421-4.7.28 unso=
licited mail originating from your IP address. To protect our 421-4.7.28 us=
ers from spam, mail sent from your IP address has been temporarily 421-4.7.=
28 rate limited. Please visit 421-4.7.28 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://support.g=
oogle.com/mail/?p=3DUnsolicitedRateLimitError">https://support.google.com/m=
ail/?p=3DUnsolicitedRateLimitError</a> to 421 4.7.28 review our Bulk Email =
Senders Guidelines. n18-20020a5d4012000000b003200b1e9219si887019wrp.921 - g=
smtp (in reply to end of DATA command))</div><div><br></div><div>Unfortunat=
ely this doesn't just impact messages from you. Any message from the se=
rver to those services is held or bounced.</div><div><br></div><div>Because=
cypherpunks isn't the only service on my server, this means that some =
of the other activities are impacted. This includes one of my key volunteer=
s for Project Gutenberg who utilizes a <a href=3D"http://yahoo.com">yahoo.c=
om</a> email address -- my messages to him were rejected, even though he ha=
s nothing to do with cypherpunks and it was even from a different hostname =
(<a href=3D"http://lists.pglaf.org">lists.pglaf.org</a> not <a href=3D"http=
://lists.cpunks.org">lists.cpunks.org</a>, but they are both hosted on the =
same system).</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>I hope this longish e=
xplanation explains why the frequency of your messages creates a big proble=
m for the cypherpunks list, why many subscribers will never see your messag=
es, and why it creates indigestion for other stuff the server needs to do.<=
/div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>The second problem is that someone =
has targeted you for the unsubscription mail bombs. I spent awhile trying t=
o mitigate this, and the only immediate solution would be to remove you fro=
m the cypherpunks subscriber list and let you subscribe from another addres=
s. <br></div><div><br></div><div>Luckily those messages seem to have stoppe=
d for now. Yesterday, for perhaps 12 hours, around one password reset per s=
econd was being sent. This resulted in a backlog of over 30000 (!) messages=
that were clogging up my server, but could not be delivered to you because=
of gmail rate limiting. So, you would have gotten a whole lot more of thos=
e messages if I hadn't deleted them all.</div><div><br></div><div>The a=
ttack was distributed. Each request came from a different IP address - I co=
unted over 200,000 of these. I'm not sure how many you got before I del=
eted 30,000 and it seems the attack stopped early in the evening Saturday n=
ight (maybe by 6pm PDT). If it hasn't stopped entirely, it is definitel=
y a lot less frequent now. I could take a closer look at the logfiles if it=
might be helpful.<br></div><div><br></div><div>If the attack was from a si=
ngle IP address or group of IP addresses I could block them easily enough. =
But they came from a different address every time.</div><div><br></div><div=
>Clearly someone got on the dark web and hired a botnet army to send all of=
these password reset requests against you.</div><div><br></div><div>So, th=
at is also a problem because it also caused gmail (your mail service) to st=
art rejecting messages to anyone. <br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><=
div>I'm going to be outside for the next 8-10 hours, and will see any m=
essages from you when I return. Thanks for your understanding about this. A=
s I tried to say below, I'm not trying to censor your messages. But the=
frequency of messages should decrease to avoid the first type of problem a=
bove, and this can be done by you sending fewer longer messages rather than=
many short messages.</div><div><br></div><div>Best regards,</div><div>=C2=
=A0 Greg</div><div>=C2=A0<br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><di=
v dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Sep 17, 2023 at 7:24=E2=80=AFAM =
mailbombbin <<a href=3D"mailto:mailbombbin at gmail.com">mailbombbin at gmail.=
com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"marg=
in:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1e=
x">Greg thank you for messaging me about this.<br>
<br>
So you know, I have been receiving high-frequency mailbombs sent via<br>
the list, in the form of password recovery requests and removal<br>
requests. I have tens of thousands of these filtered on this address,<br>
and they delay the delivery and receipt of mails for me. They come<br>
reliably, many per hour.<br>
<br>
Is it possible this is the source of the clog on the list, rather than<br>
my sporadic posts?<br>
</blockquote></div>
--0000000000008cec7f06058f0eb2--
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From: mailbombbin <mailbombbin at gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2023 08:54:37 -0600
Message-ID: <CABA1gGKj5KpsKtECc+EEdoQJ3rUFK-7=voj2_voEu-Emp3NZ7g at mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Your messages to cypherpunks
To: Greg Newby <gbnewby at petascale.org>
Cc: Karl Semich <gmkarl at gmail.com>, Greg Newby <gbnewby at pglaf.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
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I=E2=80=99m putting effort in to plan to send messages less frequently, but
I=E2=80=99ll need to think about it more to really promise this strongly fo=
r
future months or years without some kind of associated consequences
I=E2=80=99m afraid.
Others have reported receiving these bombs some time ago, and I=E2=80=99ve
been getting them now to other subscribed addresses. Is it possible
the rejections from the other servers are because they have also
received similar bombs?
I ask this because the posting to the list in general, from professor
rat for example, reduced noticeably when they started up. It was hard
for me to keep posting myself, hence the new address.
Also, juan mentioned the distributed ips were tor exit nodes some months ag=
o.
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<CABA1gGKtFOtU9ZX5m8Hkb9E+9CDoya8e_8VvywRH_fgJXB8Dkg at mail.gmail.com> <CANLuyJbq76aoo9Evt1h5i5rdX91Ouuyf1UJ8cYGD8Z8uvQM3vw at mail.gmail.com>
From: mailbombbin <mailbombbin at gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2023 09:12:42 -0600
Message-ID: <CABA1gGLrt7+94JT2t-H-2m2gysjR_G=ZF1CjEFcdD_MseZzOMA at mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Your messages to cypherpunks
To: Greg Newby <gbnewby at petascale.org>
Cc: Karl Semich <gmkarl at gmail.com>, Greg Newby <gbnewby at pglaf.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> Here is the first part of an example log message that lists around 100
> gmail users:
> D34D811C0238 11973 Sat Sep 16 21:07:34
> cypherpunks-bounces at lists.cpunks.org
> (host alt1.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com[209.85.202.27] said: 421-4.7.28
> [69.55.231.143 15] Our system has detected an unusual rate of
> 421-4.7.28 unsolicited mail originating from your IP address. To protect
> our 421-4.7.28 users from spam, mail sent from your IP address has been
> temporarily 421-4.7.28 rate limited. Please visit 421-4.7.28
> https://support.google.com/mail/?p=3DUnsolicitedRateLimitError to 421 4.7=
.28
> review our Bulk Email Senders Guidelines.
> n18-20020a5d4012000000b003200b1e9219si887019wrp.921 - gsmtp (in reply to
> end of DATA command))
>
> Unfortunately this doesn't just impact messages from you. Any message fro=
m
> the server to those services is held or bounced
I=E2=80=99m noting the error message says =E2=80=9Coriginating from your IP=
address=E2=80=9D,
so it sounds like the bombs and my messages combined to trigger this.
I=E2=80=99ll stop posting this morning, I think whoever sends the bombs mig=
ht
send them in response to my posts.
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From: Greg Newby <gbnewby at petascale.org>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2023 15:45:21 -0700
Message-ID: <CANLuyJb0hXGFoaN5g2yzGE6fZMZMOQVU7GqTDBQgEZ-vB=r09g at mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Your messages to cypherpunks
To: Karl Semich <gmkarl at gmail.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000b44dbb0605fa5db2"
--000000000000b44dbb0605fa5db2
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Hi Karl.
There are now 128 messages from today that cannot be delivered to
cypherpunks subscribers because you are sending too many emails.
Regards,
Greg
--000000000000b44dbb0605fa5db2
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Hi Karl.</div><div><br></div><div>There are now 128 m=
essages from today that cannot be delivered to cypherpunks subscribers beca=
use you are sending too many emails.</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div=
><div>=C2=A0 Greg</div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div>
--000000000000b44dbb0605fa5db2--
-------------- next part --------------
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Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2023 19:10:56 -0400
Delivered-To: gmkarl at gmail.com
Message-ID: <CALL-=e58Jzuj+ipTWkOSdDhiKnd_R6fTPddLigkbZd5gRaXusQ at mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Your messages to cypherpunks
From: "Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many" <gmkarl at gmail.com>
To: Greg Newby <gbnewby at petascale.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
[[I don't believe you yet; the log you pasted talked about IP
addresses rather than senders, and you described many other messages
being sent from the same IP address. Am I missing something?]]
[[I don't imagine most of the subscribers are reading them anyway,
even if they are delivered ...]]
I think the priority here we should be focusing on is the future of
the list. It has few posters, but has a really important history. It's
hard for me to hold that.
Portals like this can undergo some change and then fade away,
painfully or quietly or both.
I'm worried things could be painful. I guess maybe they already have been.
It's sad there's controversy over the content of the history, and the
content of the list.
It's sad we almost all dropped end-to-end cryptography, and all that implies.
-------------- next part --------------
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<CALL-=e58Jzuj+ipTWkOSdDhiKnd_R6fTPddLigkbZd5gRaXusQ at mail.gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2023 19:12:20 -0400
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Subject: Re: Your messages to cypherpunks
From: "Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many" <gmkarl at gmail.com>
To: Greg Newby <gbnewby at petascale.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
i didn't expect to be the only poster and i really made this habit
strong so as to find autonomy in myself in some spaces. it's a funny
situation.
-------------- next part --------------
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Subject: Re: Your messages to cypherpunks
From: "Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many" <gmkarl at gmail.com>
To: Greg Newby <gbnewby at petascale.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
i didn't expect to be the only poster and i really made this habit
strong so as to find autonomy in myself in some spaces. it's a funny
situation.
-------------- next part --------------
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<CALL-=e58Jzuj+ipTWkOSdDhiKnd_R6fTPddLigkbZd5gRaXusQ at mail.gmail.com> <CALL-=e7kDFxgdAbPqN14Az=0s+C9K-QZm3sWUYmOa7rtTgsdag at mail.gmail.com>
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From: Greg Newby <gbnewby at petascale.org>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2023 21:57:46 -0700
Message-ID: <CANLuyJa2hgRH=nygRXim_TG+miKF6jx8Ov5XAHdhtT4h2tOD4A at mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Your messages to cypherpunks
To: "Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many" <gmkarl at gmail.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000009eb3ee0605ff9172"
--0000000000009eb3ee0605ff9172
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
I'll send you some logfiles and other details on Saturday.
On Fri., Sep. 22, 2023, 4:12 p.m. Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim &
Survivor of Many, <gmkarl at gmail.com> wrote:
> i didn't expect to be the only poster and i really made this habit
> strong so as to find autonomy in myself in some spaces. it's a funny
> situation.
>
--0000000000009eb3ee0605ff9172
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"auto">I'll send you some logfiles and other details on Satu=
rday.</div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_a=
ttr">On Fri., Sep. 22, 2023, 4:12 p.m. Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Vict=
im & Survivor of Many, <<a href=3D"mailto:gmkarl at gmail.com">gmkarl at g=
mail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D=
"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">i didn'=
t expect to be the only poster and i really made this habit<br>
strong so as to find autonomy in myself in some spaces. it's a funny<br=
>
situation.<br>
</blockquote></div>
--0000000000009eb3ee0605ff9172--
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<CALL-=e58Jzuj+ipTWkOSdDhiKnd_R6fTPddLigkbZd5gRaXusQ at mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CALL-=e58Jzuj+ipTWkOSdDhiKnd_R6fTPddLigkbZd5gRaXusQ at mail.gmail.com>
From: Greg Newby <gbnewby at petascale.org>
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2023 10:43:18 -0700
Message-ID: <CANLuyJaZQdu1cYAf_N-XS1R97hL8GdNvfJMZ88W=xXD4B2dLZA at mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Your messages to cypherpunks
To: "Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many" <gmkarl at gmail.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000577a8806060a4366"
--000000000000577a8806060a4366
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear Karl,
It's not clear to me what you don't believe. Your gmail addresses will not
be seeing messages from other people who post to the list in a timely
manner, because of the throttling by gmail.
The message frequency from the cypherpunks list has triggered automatic
blocks by gmail since last Saturday (one week). The message from gmail
looks like this (in the "mailq" command output):
DB5E411C0EBC 13334 Tue Sep 19 16:39:57
cypherpunks-bounces at lists.cpunks.org
(host alt1.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com[74.125.193.26] said: 421-4.7.28
[69.55.231.143 15] Our system has detected an unusual rate of
421-4.7.28 unsolicited mail originating from your IP address. To protect
our 421-4.7.28 users from spam, mail sent from your IP address has been
temporarily 421-4.7.28 rate limited. Please visit 421-4.7.28
https://support.google.com/mail/?p=3DUnsolicitedRateLimitError to 421 4.7.2=
8
review our Bulk Email Senders Guidelines.
k4-20020a5d5184000000b0031431c82becsi3097476wrv.903 - gsmtp (in reply to
end of DATA command))
When you were sending fewer messages, things started to flow. Now that you
are again sending many messages, gmail is not accepting them. Gmail seems
to trickle the messages gradually. Here are how many messages are in the
queue right now, for each day of the past week:
Sun 0
Mon 2
Tue 11
Wed 39
Thu 10
Fri 59
Sat 56
Some of those are not due to you or the cypherpunks lists. There are 177
pending messages, and 158 are for the cypherpunks list. 142 of those are
due to Gmail throttling. Almost all of those 142 are from you.
You can see the preponderance of your messages, versus the others who post
to the list, in the archive:
https://lists.cpunks.org/pipermail/cypherpunks/2023-September/author.html
Meanwhile, I have identified a way of limiting the number of messages that
an individual can post in a 24-hour period. This is an add-on to Mailman,
the list software we use. I would like to have the cypherpunks list discuss
what a reasonable and appropriate number of messages per day from each user
might be.
Is this all helpful for understanding what's going on?
Regards,
Greg
On Fri, Sep 22, 2023 at 4:10=E2=80=AFPM Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Vic=
tim &
Survivor of Many <gmkarl at gmail.com> wrote:
> [[I don't believe you yet; the log you pasted talked about IP
> addresses rather than senders, and you described many other messages
> being sent from the same IP address. Am I missing something?]]
>
> [[I don't imagine most of the subscribers are reading them anyway,
> even if they are delivered ...]]
>
> I think the priority here we should be focusing on is the future of
> the list. It has few posters, but has a really important history. It's
> hard for me to hold that.
>
> Portals like this can undergo some change and then fade away,
> painfully or quietly or both.
>
> I'm worried things could be painful. I guess maybe they already have been=
.
>
> It's sad there's controversy over the content of the history, and the
> content of the list.
>
> It's sad we almost all dropped end-to-end cryptography, and all that
> implies.
>
--000000000000577a8806060a4366
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Dear Karl,</div><div><br></div><div>It's not clea=
r to me what you don't believe. Your gmail addresses will not be seeing=
messages from other people who post to the list in a timely manner, becaus=
e of the throttling by gmail. </div><div><br></div><div>The message frequen=
cy from the cypherpunks list has triggered automatic blocks by gmail since =
last Saturday (one week). The message from gmail looks like this (in the &q=
uot;mailq" command output):<br>DB5E411C0EBC =C2=A0 13334 Tue Sep 19 16=
:39:57 =C2=A0<a href=3D"mailto:cypherpunks-bounces at lists.cpunks.org">cypher=
punks-bounces at lists.cpunks.org</a><br>(host <a href=3D"http://alt1.gmail-sm=
tp-in.l.google.com">alt1.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com</a>[74.125.193.26] said=
: 421-4.7.28 [69.55.231.143 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A015] Our system has detected=
an unusual rate of 421-4.7.28 unsolicited mail originating from your IP ad=
dress. To protect our 421-4.7.28 users from spam, mail sent from your IP ad=
dress has been temporarily 421-4.7.28 rate limited. Please visit 421-4.7.28=
=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://support.google.com/mail/?p=3DUnsolicitedRateLimit=
Error">https://support.google.com/mail/?p=3DUnsolicitedRateLimitError</a> t=
o 421 4.7.28 review our Bulk Email Senders Guidelines. k4-20020a5d518400000=
0b0031431c82becsi3097476wrv.903 - gsmtp (in reply to end of DATA command))<=
/div><div><br></div><div>When you were sending fewer messages, things start=
ed to flow. Now that you are again sending many messages, gmail is not acce=
pting them. Gmail seems to trickle the messages gradually. Here are how man=
y messages are in the queue right now, for each day of the past week:<br></=
div><div><br></div><div>Sun =C2=A00<br>Mon =C2=A02<br>Tue =C2=A011<br>Wed =
=C2=A039<br>Thu =C2=A010<br>Fri =C2=A059<br>Sat =C2=A056</div><div><br></di=
v><div>Some of those are not due to you or the cypherpunks lists. There are=
177 pending messages, and 158 are for the cypherpunks list. 142 of those a=
re due to Gmail throttling. Almost all of those 142 are from you. <br></div=
><div><br></div><div>You can see the preponderance of your messages, versus=
the others who post to the list, in the archive:</div><div>=C2=A0 <a href=
=3D"https://lists.cpunks.org/pipermail/cypherpunks/2023-September/author.ht=
ml">https://lists.cpunks.org/pipermail/cypherpunks/2023-September/author.ht=
ml</a></div><div><br></div><div>Meanwhile, I have identified a way of limit=
ing the number of messages that an individual can post in a 24-hour period.=
This is an add-on to Mailman, the list software we use. I would like to ha=
ve the cypherpunks list discuss what a reasonable and appropriate number of=
messages per day from each user might be.</div><div><br></div><div>Is this=
all helpful for understanding what's going on?<br></div><div><br></div=
><div>Regards,</div><div>=C2=A0 Greg</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, Sep 22, 2023 at 4:10=E2=
=80=AFPM Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many <=
<a href=3D"mailto:gmkarl at gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gmkarl at gmail.com</a>&=
gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0=
px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">[[I d=
on't believe you yet; the log you pasted talked about IP<br>
addresses rather than senders, and you described many other messages<br>
being sent from the same IP address. Am I missing something?]]<br>
<br>
[[I don't imagine most of the subscribers are reading them anyway,<br>
even if they are delivered ...]]<br>
<br>
I think the priority here we should be focusing on is the future of<br>
the list. It has few posters, but has a really important history. It's<=
br>
hard for me to hold that.<br>
<br>
Portals like this can undergo some change and then fade away,<br>
painfully or quietly or both.<br>
<br>
I'm worried things could be painful. I guess maybe they already have be=
en.<br>
<br>
It's sad there's controversy over the content of the history, and t=
he<br>
content of the list.<br>
<br>
It's sad we almost all dropped end-to-end cryptography, and all that im=
plies.<br>
</blockquote></div>
--000000000000577a8806060a4366--
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In-Reply-To: <CANLuyJaZQdu1cYAf_N-XS1R97hL8GdNvfJMZ88W=xXD4B2dLZA at mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANLuyJb0hXGFoaN5g2yzGE6fZMZMOQVU7GqTDBQgEZ-vB=r09g at mail.gmail.com>
<CALL-=e58Jzuj+ipTWkOSdDhiKnd_R6fTPddLigkbZd5gRaXusQ at mail.gmail.com>
<CANLuyJaZQdu1cYAf_N-XS1R97hL8GdNvfJMZ88W=xXD4B2dLZA at mail.gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2023 17:41:12 -0400
Delivered-To: gmkarl at gmail.com
Message-ID: <CALL-=e6=k8mFMBxv=x6MGRyZoZ6HaeTjU7PhFwpE4yiVTdvFYA at mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Your messages to cypherpunks
From: "Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many" <gmkarl at gmail.com>
To: Greg Newby <gbnewby at petascale.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I received only a log line from you regarding bouncing on Tuesday the
19th. Wasn=E2=80=99t that when the mailman flooding was happening?
I agree that most list messages are from me, by far.
Given I have been flooding the list for years now =E2=80=A6 it seems likely
that this is left over from the mailbombs =E2=80=A6 it seems important to b=
e
clear and rational when we can these years.
I hear you=E2=80=99d like the queue smaller, and I can try to mail less for=
a bit again.
It=E2=80=99s pretty hard for me to comply here and I=E2=80=99m saddened tha=
t I=E2=80=99m
likely to be suppressed in some way to reduce the flow. I hope I find
alternative channels and behaviors.
Do you mind if I send our messages to the list?
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<CALL-=e58Jzuj+ipTWkOSdDhiKnd_R6fTPddLigkbZd5gRaXusQ at mail.gmail.com>
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<CALL-=e6=k8mFMBxv=x6MGRyZoZ6HaeTjU7PhFwpE4yiVTdvFYA at mail.gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2023 18:14:19 -0400
Delivered-To: gmkarl at gmail.com
Message-ID: <CALL-=e76qOyGSYEcock24pF5DrsupdhSYr5mDGonHZvgUm4Rcg at mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Your messages to cypherpunks
From: "Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many" <gmkarl at gmail.com>
To: Greg Newby <gbnewby at petascale.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Be well Greg.
I don=E2=80=99t understand. Maybe something is changing your messages to me=
,
making this harder to sort out.
You have been a strong volunteer who never needed these troubles.
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<CANLuyJaZQdu1cYAf_N-XS1R97hL8GdNvfJMZ88W=xXD4B2dLZA at mail.gmail.com>
<CALL-=e6=k8mFMBxv=x6MGRyZoZ6HaeTjU7PhFwpE4yiVTdvFYA at mail.gmail.com>
<CALL-=e76qOyGSYEcock24pF5DrsupdhSYr5mDGonHZvgUm4Rcg at mail.gmail.com>
<CANLuyJb4ntTinLNoBqAkw_rRf6As-KJc4c0XnEdRukWM+FG4tg at mail.gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2023 05:26:12 -0400
Delivered-To: gmkarl at gmail.com
Message-ID: <CALL-=e6MmywRPwTCbHA+hAe=bVpKM3V=h_Q7KG-ApZLa6MK4PQ at mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Your messages to cypherpunks
From: "Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many" <gmkarl at gmail.com>
To: Greg Newby <gbnewby at petascale.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
I wonder if gmail is using more aggressive AI ratelimiting that is
raising false positives, and changing the IP address resets it.
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<CANLuyJaZQdu1cYAf_N-XS1R97hL8GdNvfJMZ88W=xXD4B2dLZA at mail.gmail.com>
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<CALL-=e76qOyGSYEcock24pF5DrsupdhSYr5mDGonHZvgUm4Rcg at mail.gmail.com>
<CANLuyJb4ntTinLNoBqAkw_rRf6As-KJc4c0XnEdRukWM+FG4tg at mail.gmail.com>
<CALL-=e6MmywRPwTCbHA+hAe=bVpKM3V=h_Q7KG-ApZLa6MK4PQ at mail.gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2023 05:31:06 -0400
Delivered-To: gmkarl at gmail.com
Message-ID: <CALL-=e4gdSeCVz_Rb7w_ypijriZ5QSBA_t1L8+uEqANib6ar+w at mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Your messages to cypherpunks
From: "Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many" <gmkarl at gmail.com>
To: Greg Newby <gbnewby at petascale.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I guess there=E2=80=99s no reason to assume AI given all the outgoing mail =
a week ago.
I understand cpunks has been ratelimited and it=E2=80=99s helpful to backof=
f
in hope the ratelimit expires.
It would be nice to We should CC .. mailing list
Gmail has support portals, both official and unofficial
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Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2023 05:48:18 -0400
Delivered-To: gmkarl at gmail.com
Message-ID: <CALL-=e5WwtJ8oFUtrpSx1+ONaLy==ZiRZkECK073+JyKeoetJA at mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Your messages to cypherpunks
From: "Undescribed Horrific Abuse, One Victim & Survivor of Many" <gmkarl at gmail.com>
To: Greg Newby <gbnewby at petascale.org>
Cc: cypherpunks <cypherpunks at lists.cpunks.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
https://support.google.com/mail/thread/206272883?hl=en&msgid=206732947
Gmail uses a wait-and-watch policy to ensure any changes made in
response to spamming related incidents (if any happened with your
domain) are not temporary and it may take several weeks before the
sender or the recipient notice a positive change, even more so if the
SMTP or outgoing server is a shared server/IP address that also hosts
other domains which may continue to engage in dubious practices or you
have had any recent spam related incidents.
Let me know.
Somnath
Diamond Product Expert
Product Expert and Mentor for Gmail and Google Accounts.
Mar 18, 2023
Additionally, can you share the domain name? If you do not wish to
post about the domain name, post it separately, leave it on for a
minute or so and delete it so that I can receive an email notification
and do some checks based on it.
More information about the cypherpunks
mailing list